[Retired] The LCD Thread

[buster64]

After doing a fair amount of research, I'm leaning toward picking up the Samsung 226BW monitor. When I stopped by Circuit City today I noticed a Samsung 2232BW right next to it. The clerk said that the 226BW was being discontinued and replaced by the 2232BW. If this is true, how does the new 2232BW version compare?

 

[rscl]

The store I'm buying BENQ FP241WZ from has BENQ FP241VW for the same price... What are the differences except design? should I perhaps go for the VW?

It's weird... they're only equally expensive on that site, otherwise the WZ is cheaper. But this store has the best policies, they'll allow me to send monitor back if I get dead/stuck pixles or blackbleed. Isn't that worth it?

 

[QBZ]

Originally posted by: buster64
After doing a fair amount of research, I'm leaning toward picking up the Samsung 226BW monitor. When I stopped by Circuit City today I noticed a Samsung 2232BW right next to it. The clerk said that the 226BW was being discontinued and replaced by the 2232BW. If this is true, how does the new 2232BW version compare?

FWIW, is the 226BW the one I've been reading about where there's supposedly three different panels for it, each from a different venue? One panel made by Samsung themselves and then two others? Supposedly this means varying quality, depending on how you do in the "panel lottery."

You may want to do some more research on that 226BW before you commit. I have not heard of a 2232BW as of yet, but that doesn't mean much.

As for me: The NEC 20wmgx2 is one option I'm leaning towards, although I feel like I run across a lot of wild quality control issue stories across forums like this one, WSGF, and HOCP.

Ideally, I'd like a quality 24 inch monitor with gaming as my first priority. I'm not big on going for a TN panel, but I won't completely rule it out.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: buster64
After doing a fair amount of research, I'm leaning toward picking up the Samsung 226BW monitor. When I stopped by Circuit City today I noticed a Samsung 2232BW right next to it. The clerk said that the 226BW was being discontinued and replaced by the 2232BW. If this is true, how does the new 2232BW version compare?

We don't know quite yet, since it hasn't been reviewed whatsoever (as far as I'm aware). I did find one review here but I'd like to see more at HardForum, LesNumeriques, or THG/X-Bit Labs before I recommend it.

The 2232GW also has a glossy screen coating and bezel coating.

I also wonder if the panel lottery will continue with this model. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Originally posted by: rscl
The store I'm buying BENQ FP241WZ from has BENQ FP241VW for the same price... What are the differences except design? should I perhaps go for the VW?

It's weird... they're only equally expensive on that site, otherwise the WZ is cheaper. But this store has the best policies, they'll allow me to send monitor back if I get dead/stuck pixles or blackbleed. Isn't that worth it?

The VW has slower response time and it gives you no option of using the BFI (black frame insertion) tech.

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...8&mo2=142&p2=1564&ph=1

That's the only difference that I can tell.

Originally posted by: QBZ

Originally posted by: buster64
After doing a fair amount of research, I'm leaning toward picking up the Samsung 226BW monitor. When I stopped by Circuit City today I noticed a Samsung 2232BW right next to it. The clerk said that the 226BW was being discontinued and replaced by the 2232BW. If this is true, how does the new 2232BW version compare?

FWIW, is the 226BW the one I've been reading about where there's supposedly three different panels for it, each from a different venue? One panel made by Samsung themselves and then two others? Supposedly this means varying quality, depending on how you do in the "panel lottery."

You may want to do some more research on that 226BW before you commit. I have not heard of a 2232BW as of yet, but that doesn't mean much.

As for me: The NEC 20wmgx2 is one option I'm leaning towards, although I feel like I run across a lot of wild quality control issue stories across forums like this one, WSGF, and HOCP.

Ideally, I'd like a quality 24 inch monitor with gaming as my first priority. I'm not big on going for a TN panel, but I won't completely rule it out.

Maybe you should take a good look to the BenQ FP241WZ too...

 

[QBZ]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Maybe you should take a good look to the BenQ FP241WZ too...

It's on the short list. It is a true 8 bit panel? I take it the "Z" is the most current version?

How is BenQ's quality control and all the rest of that? I've never bought any of their products before...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: QBZ

Originally posted by: xtknight

Maybe you should take a good look to the BenQ FP241WZ too...

It's on the short list. It is a true 8 bit panel? I take it the "Z" is the most current version?

How is BenQ's quality control and all the rest of that? I've never bought any of their products before...

The Z is a new version and it is a true 8-bit panel. There is no more recent panel that is better.

BenQ uses AU Optronics for their panels, who have a great track record when it comes to dead pixels. The BenQ panels also tend to have great uniformity. I have heard some issues about BenQ's support, though, but I don't know that this is different from any other company out there so I haven't paid much attention to it. It varies too much per rep and per country to consider delisting it. (Other than the fact I don't know that Dell, Acer, Samsung, etc are any better.)

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: buster64
After doing a fair amount of research, I'm leaning toward picking up the Samsung 226BW monitor. When I stopped by Circuit City today I noticed a Samsung 2232BW right next to it. The clerk said that the 226BW was being discontinued and replaced by the 2232BW. If this is true, how does the new 2232BW version compare?

We don't know quite yet, since it hasn't been reviewed whatsoever (as far as I'm aware). I did find one review here but I'd like to see more at HardForum, LesNumeriques, or THG/X-Bit Labs before I recommend it.

The 2232GW also has a glossy screen coating and bezel coating.

I also wonder if the panel lottery will continue with this model. It'll be interesting to see what happens.

Originally posted by: rscl
The store I'm buying BENQ FP241WZ from has BENQ FP241VW for the same price... What are the differences except design? should I perhaps go for the VW?

It's weird... they're only equally expensive on that site, otherwise the WZ is cheaper. But this store has the best policies, they'll allow me to send monitor back if I get dead/stuck pixles or blackbleed. Isn't that worth it?

The VW has slower response time and it gives you no option of using the BFI (black frame insertion) tech.

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...8&mo2=142&p2=1564&ph=1

That's the only difference that I can tell.

Originally posted by: QBZ

Originally posted by: buster64
After doing a fair amount of research, I'm leaning toward picking up the Samsung 226BW monitor. When I stopped by Circuit City today I noticed a Samsung 2232BW right next to it. The clerk said that the 226BW was being discontinued and replaced by the 2232BW. If this is true, how does the new 2232BW version compare?

FWIW, is the 226BW the one I've been reading about where there's supposedly three different panels for it, each from a different venue? One panel made by Samsung themselves and then two others? Supposedly this means varying quality, depending on how you do in the "panel lottery."

You may want to do some more research on that 226BW before you commit. I have not heard of a 2232BW as of yet, but that doesn't mean much.

As for me: The NEC 20wmgx2 is one option I'm leaning towards, although I feel like I run across a lot of wild quality control issue stories across forums like this one, WSGF, and HOCP.

Ideally, I'd like a quality 24 inch monitor with gaming as my first priority. I'm not big on going for a TN panel, but I won't completely rule it out.

Maybe you should take a good look to the BenQ FP241WZ too...

Does the panel lottery pertain to the Samsung 216BW also? CC has it on sale for 250 vs New Egg's 254.99? How do you determine or locate which panel the monitor contains?

 

[QBZ]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: QBZ

Originally posted by: xtknight

Maybe you should take a good look to the BenQ FP241WZ too...

It's on the short list. It is a true 8 bit panel? I take it the "Z" is the most current version?

How is BenQ's quality control and all the rest of that? I've never bought any of their products before...

The Z is a new version and it is a true 8-bit panel. There is no more recent panel that is better.

BenQ uses AU Optronics for their panels, who have a great track record when it comes to dead pixels. The BenQ panels also tend to have great uniformity. I have heard some issues about BenQ's support, though, but I don't know that this is different from any other company out there so I haven't paid much attention to it. It varies too much per rep and per country to consider delisting it. (Other than the fact I don't know that Dell, Acer, Samsung, etc are any better.)

I was just glancing over at HOCP's huge thread for these BenQ's and there's some pretty wild and disappointing stories to be had in that thing. Like you said, though: It's probably hit and miss like just about everyone else.

The Z seems very hard to come by, at least here in the States. I even read in passing on Amazon of all places that the Z might have been discontinued. So there's the regular W and the WV that has the tilt feature.

The Z has the Perfect Motion tech, which is a mixed bag when you read around. The WV has the tilt, and the W regular has neither. Beyond that, it's my understanding that they're all the same.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Does the panel lottery pertain to the Samsung 216BW also? CC has it on sale for 250 vs New Egg's 254.99? How do you determine or locate which panel the monitor contains?

I don't know, but I would guess that the 216BW only uses Samsung panels since no one else has 21.6" panels yet.

Samsung hid the panel info from the service menu and back labels, so all you can really do is take apart the panel.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: QBZ

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: QBZ

Originally posted by: xtknight

Maybe you should take a good look to the BenQ FP241WZ too...

It's on the short list. It is a true 8 bit panel? I take it the "Z" is the most current version?

How is BenQ's quality control and all the rest of that? I've never bought any of their products before...

The Z is a new version and it is a true 8-bit panel. There is no more recent panel that is better.

BenQ uses AU Optronics for their panels, who have a great track record when it comes to dead pixels. The BenQ panels also tend to have great uniformity. I have heard some issues about BenQ's support, though, but I don't know that this is different from any other company out there so I haven't paid much attention to it. It varies too much per rep and per country to consider delisting it. (Other than the fact I don't know that Dell, Acer, Samsung, etc are any better.)

I was just glancing over at HOCP's huge thread for these BenQ's and there's some pretty wild and disappointing stories to be had in that thing. Like you said, though: It's probably hit and miss like just about everyone else.

The Z seems very hard to come by, at least here in the States. I even read in passing on Amazon of all places that the Z might have been discontinued. So there's the regular W and the WV that has the tilt feature.

The Z has the Perfect Motion tech, which is a mixed bag when you read around. The WV has the tilt, and the W regular has neither. Beyond that, it's my understanding that they're all the same.

BenQ did delist the FP241WZ. Odd. It's possible it sold out.

The VW actually does have PerfectMotion tech with BFI! I didn't realize this. The charts on DigitalVersus don't paint a great picture of it, though. Maybe they used different settings.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Does the panel lottery pertain to the Samsung 216BW also? CC has it on sale for 250 vs New Egg's 254.99? How do you determine or locate which panel the monitor contains?

I don't know, but I would guess that the 216BW only uses Samsung panels since no one else has 21.6" panels yet.

Samsung hid the panel info from the service menu and back labels, so all you can really do is take apart the panel.

Is it worth an extra 100 bucks to get the 226BW with the 2ms and 3000:1? Would I even notice the difference? The LCD would be used mainly for gaming. I am moving from an 19" NEC FE 950 CRT, little late getting in the LCD game (LCD Noob)
Looks like the ratio might be 700:1 on the 226BW isn't that worse than 1000:1 and cost more?

 

[Pithlit]

21,6" is? about $30 less and last time I checked it was more expensive than 226BW. I wonder if they will make any discounts on them as that 2232 model is replacing them.

 

[1ManArmY]

Originally posted by: Pithlit
21,6" is? about $30 less and last time I checked it was more expensive than 226BW. I wonder if they will make any discounts on them as that 2232 model is replacing them.

Circuit City has the 216BW for 249.99 in today's add and New egg has it for 254.99 while the 226BW is anywhere from 349 to 269 with 40 dollar rebates which ended today 9-30.

 

[RedTee]

Bought the WZ based on this thread and very impressed with quality of panel. Definitely, the one to get from BenQ. In Canada, the WZ is not as hard to find at the moment. Ranging from $610 to $750. Thanks a lot xtknight.

 

[Shortass]

I'm looking for a decent, cheap monitor. You mentioned the Acer AL2216Wbd above and see that at newegg it's $240 shipped, which is pretty great. Obviously there has to be a downside to it, so is there anything glaring that I should know about? I'm gonna look into it after typing this but any info would be greatly appreciated (sadly, $240 is a lot for me right now... otherwise I'd just go for the 20WMGX2 )

Also, I can buy a used Viewsonic vx2025 for $180 shipped if I act quickly, but I'm wondering about how smart it is to buy older tech. While I'm not really sold on a 20 or 22" screen, it seems to be more of a value to get the extra 2". However, if the quality of the vx2025 is a lot better I wouldn't mind spending less of course...

Also, would there be any decent alternatives in this price range?

Edit: Price on Acer went up from 226 to 240 shipped, so that hurts that a bit. Leaning more towards the Viewsonic now, but would buying an older, smaller monitor be an okay bet?

 

[coreyb]

Does anyone know of a LCD monitor, in the 20 - 22" range, that is good for gaming and has EXCELLENT black levels? I'm a little disappointed with my Dell 22" when it comes to displaying blacks.

 

[xxTurbonium]

What is/are the reason(s) that the LG Flatron L226WTQ/L226WTY is recommended over the Samsung 226CW?

Is it just the fact that the 226CW is considerably more expensive for pretty much the same performance?

 

[OBWan]

Guys, thanks for a very informative thread (especially to the OP, xtknight)!

I have a question for Acer AL2051W. How do you guys find out it's panel type is the AMVA "M201EW01 V3"? Was it because someone opened up the back cover and read the label on the the panel? If that is how the panel type was determined at first, was there anyone else who also opened up his monitor and found a different panel type? Seeing as how buying certain namebrand models ends up with a lottery game (e.g. HP LP2065), I am curious about AL2051W's panel consistency.

By the way, is there any way to reliably interpret the P/N or S/N on the monitor and learn what kind of panel it uses inside?

 

[imported_mingus]

How can I see the firmware on the Dell WFP2407-HC?

 

[snowfiend131]

After looking through much of the thread, it seems that reasonably priced IPS displays are few and far between. I am looking for either a 20.1 inch (NOT widescreen) monitor or a 24 inch widescreen, to be used for general use, some photo editing, but no gaming. Any suggestions for a 20.1 less than $500 or a 24 for less than $650 (IPS panels)?

Or perhaps I should broaden my search to include MVA and PVA panels? The HP 2065 was removed from the list due to panel switching....is the MVA panel that now ships noticibly different than the old IPS panel to make it not worth buying?

 

[HYROGLiFiX]

I just purchased an LG 222WT-BF this is apparently a newer model that has the 5000:1 contrast ratio. I was just wondering if anyone can tell me anything regarding the service menu.. Here is the information:

L225w PC v1.40
GM 5726H by Feng
2007.05.30 6
Clear ETI >no
Auto Color >no
Panel> CPT22.W.AOC
NVRAM INIT> no

Under Panel I change it from CPT22.W.AOC > AUO22.W.AOC >BOE22.W.AOC >CMO22.W.AOC >LPL22.W.AOC I have no idea what this means.

So far so good though.. I dont seem to notice any ghosting and this LCD has far less backlight bleed than the 226WA i also purchased to compare it to.

 

[jmmtn4aj]

Originally posted by: snowfiend131
After looking through much of the thread, it seems that reasonably priced IPS displays are few and far between. I am looking for either a 20.1 inch (NOT widescreen) monitor or a 24 inch widescreen, to be used for general use, some photo editing, but no gaming. Any suggestions for a 20.1 less than $500 or a 24 for less than $650 (IPS panels)?

Or perhaps I should broaden my search to include MVA and PVA panels? The HP 2065 was removed from the list due to panel switching....is the MVA panel that now ships noticibly different than the old IPS panel to make it not worth buying?

The guys at VR-Zone claim the difference is negligible between the PVA and IPS versions of the 2007WFP, so yeah I suppose you could include PVA panels..

 

[jmmtn4aj]

I just ordered a VX2025WM from a local etailer that I trust (ordered my whole rig from there in parts, they price match and give free delivery, sometimes on the day of the order itself). Is Viewsonic suddenly producing them again? I remembered looking for this awhile back and couldn't find it, doubt I missed it on that website since it's usually the first place I look..

Also, any problems with the 2025 in games such as ghosting?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: 1ManArmY
Is it worth an extra 100 bucks to get the 226BW with the 2ms and 3000:1? Would I even notice the difference? The LCD would be used mainly for gaming. I am moving from an 19" NEC FE 950 CRT, little late getting in the LCD game (LCD Noob)
Looks like the ratio might be 700:1 on the 226BW isn't that worse than 1000:1 and cost more?

I don't really know how the 216BW compares to the 226BW (no reviews).

Originally posted by: Shortass
I'm looking for a decent, cheap monitor. You mentioned the Acer AL2216Wbd above and see that at newegg it's $240 shipped, which is pretty great. Obviously there has to be a downside to it, so is there anything glaring that I should know about? I'm gonna look into it after typing this but any info would be greatly appreciated (sadly, $240 is a lot for me right now... otherwise I'd just go for the 20WMGX2 )

Also, I can buy a used Viewsonic vx2025 for $180 shipped if I act quickly, but I'm wondering about how smart it is to buy older tech. While I'm not really sold on a 20 or 22" screen, it seems to be more of a value to get the extra 2". However, if the quality of the vx2025 is a lot better I wouldn't mind spending less of course...

Also, would there be any decent alternatives in this price range?

Edit: Price on Acer went up from 226 to 240 shipped, so that hurts that a bit. Leaning more towards the Viewsonic now, but would buying an older, smaller monitor be an okay bet?

The VX2025 would be worth the try. I say go for it.

Originally posted by: coreyb
Does anyone know of a LCD monitor, in the 20 - 22" range, that is good for gaming and has EXCELLENT black levels? I'm a little disappointed with my Dell 22" when it comes to displaying blacks.

NEC 20WMGX2 is decent, but not superb for blacks.
Most TNs are worse than the NEC for dark detail even though they have a lower black level.

I would give a VA panel a shot for excellent blacks, such as the ViewSonic VP2030b. The HP LP2065 (VA/IPS) and Dell 2007FP (VA/IPS) are other possible choices, but I think the VP2030b would be the best. It's hard to know.

If you're looking for something more economical, the Samsung 206BW seems to have good gamma setup and great black levels (even higher contrast than VP2030b according to X-Bit).

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...splay/20inch-4_21.html

The gamma curves look good. They lie in a dense group hardly deflecting from the theoretical curve for gamma 2.2. The monitor reproduces the entire color range without losing details in lights or darks.

I have to say you should give the 206BW a try if the VP2030b is too expensive.

Best experience I've ever had with contrast/black levels is using my ViewSonic VP930b (P-MVA) in sRGB mode. Flame thrower in the Radar Wolfenstein level...woow

And whenever you want to step up, give the Samsung 275T a shot. Record-breaking black levels for a big LCD.

In my experience, higher contrast ratios with TNs can be fallacious. My NEC at 400:1 would give the L226WT at 1000:1 a run for its money when it comes to revealing details. That may be because the gamma of the L226WT wasn't setup that well. The 206BW (or 226BW) will probably have better luck.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: databird
What is/are the reason(s) that the LG Flatron L226WTQ/L226WTY is recommended over the Samsung 226CW?

Is it just the fact that the 226CW is considerably more expensive for pretty much the same performance?

Basically because the 226CW hasn't been reviewed by anyone reputable yet. And with new tech such as wide gamut CCFLs, I'm not usually too quick to add one monitor or the other. If it was a VA or IPS I'd be slightly more inclined, but it's still a TN so I want to see a lot more data on it.

Originally posted by: OBWan
Guys, thanks for a very informative thread (especially to the OP, xtknight)!

I have a question for Acer AL2051W. How do you guys find out it's panel type is the AMVA "M201EW01 V3"? Was it because someone opened up the back cover and read the label on the the panel? If that is how the panel type was determined at first, was there anyone else who also opened up his monitor and found a different panel type? Seeing as how buying certain namebrand models ends up with a lottery game (e.g. HP LP2065), I am curious about AL2051W's panel consistency.

By the way, is there any way to reliably interpret the P/N or S/N on the monitor and learn what kind of panel it uses inside?

Usually I just take a guess to be honest.

The fact it's P-MVA can be determined by looking at its viewing angles (and this can be confirmed time and time again through reviews like X-Bit and user experiences).

Acer owns AUO (or part of it), and that's where nearly all of their panels come from. They rarely if ever use panels from other companies. In one case they used an IPS from LG Philips since AUO doesn't produce IPS. If it's a TN or VA, you can trust me it's going to be from AUO if it's from Acer or BenQ, in most cases.

The terms P-MVA and AMVA are rather interchangeable. AUO updates their site off and on to replace older panels so you don't really know what exact # Acer is using here and now, but it's doesn't really matter anyway. Most companies are pretty consistent with their panels with few exceptions.

I really don't think the AL2051W would be involved in any panel lottery. It wouldn't make any sense. The MVA tech from AUO is very cheap (cheaper than competitors' VAs) and we can pretty much confirm they haven't been using TNs, or it would have been obvious. VA LCD supply has always been steady from AUO. As far as I can tell they have never had to outsource it.

There is no definitive way to identify the panel, short of opening up the monitor.