[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: snowfiend131
After looking through much of the thread, it seems that reasonably priced IPS displays are few and far between. I am looking for either a 20.1 inch (NOT widescreen) monitor or a 24 inch widescreen, to be used for general use, some photo editing, but no gaming. Any suggestions for a 20.1 less than $500 or a 24 for less than $650 (IPS panels)?

There are certainly no 24" IPS panels for <$650 (min. is $1000+ for NEC LCD2490WUXi).

Or perhaps I should broaden my search to include MVA and PVA panels? The HP 2065 was removed from the list due to panel switching....is the MVA panel that now ships noticibly different than the old IPS panel to make it not worth buying?

The BenQ FP241WZ (or W if you can't find that) may be a good choice for you. It is cheaper and it uses a P-MVA panel.

VA panels will always have different characteristics than IPS panels. The sentiments in the OP about VA vs IPS are as true as they always were despite claims that VA or IPS has significantly improved in this matter or that matter. At least at this point in time. S-PVA offers many technical improvements over P-MVA but barely any of these translate to anything you will notice that much besides a slightly better black level and perhaps slightly wider viewing angle. This was already accounted for when I wrote the section.

The HP LP2065 is really a decent monitor for most people regardless of if you end up with the VA or IPS version. It's a panel lottery which is why it's not on my OP (I don't condone it).

NEC has some "good old" IPS panels like the LCD2070NX but it's anyone's guess how they compare to what's out there today. I think the LP2065 is a better bet.

The LCD2070NX is alright, but it's expensive, it has a very high response time and its colors are not even that much better than average. It is an IPS panel though.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../display/20inch_4.html

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: HYROGLiFiX
I just purchased an LG 222WT-BF this is apparently a newer model that has the 5000:1 contrast ratio. I was just wondering if anyone can tell me anything regarding the service menu.. Here is the information:

L225w PC v1.40
GM 5726H by Feng
2007.05.30 6
Clear ETI >no
Auto Color >no
Panel> CPT22.W.AOC
NVRAM INIT> no

Under Panel I change it from CPT22.W.AOC > AUO22.W.AOC >BOE22.W.AOC >CMO22.W.AOC >LPL22.W.AOC I have no idea what this means.

So far so good though.. I dont seem to notice any ghosting and this LCD has far less backlight bleed than the 226WA i also purchased to compare it to.

Those are just different panel manufacturers (BOE is BOE-Hydis most likely, I didn't even know they were still in business). It might affect colors but if not then it's just for reference, for servicing the LCD, I guess.

There's not all that much exciting about your service menu. That doesn't mean it disappoints me, but nothing there reveals much useful about your LCD. We learned to stop trusting the PANEL field a while ago as it has been proven inaccurate numerous times.

It uses the Genesis gm5726h scaler (MCU) chip.

And, it looks like it was manufactured in May 30, 2007 by Chunghwa Picture Tubes (CPT) (if panel field is correct).

Firmware version is 1.40. Firmware lower than 1.14 in the L226WTQ/L226WTY series caused response time issues, so perhaps yours is clear from this. But the firmware version # might be a different branch than the L226WTQ series altogether.

 

[Shortass]

Thanks for all your work xtknight, it's really appreciated. Reading through this entire thing was informative...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jmmtn4aj
I just ordered a VX2025WM from a local etailer that I trust (ordered my whole rig from there in parts, they price match and give free delivery, sometimes on the day of the order itself). Is Viewsonic suddenly producing them again? I remembered looking for this awhile back and couldn't find it, doubt I missed it on that website since it's usually the first place I look..

Also, any problems with the 2025 in games such as ghosting?

They may just have a stockpile of VX2025WMs lying around? This model has gone out of stock and in stock numerous times.

The VX2025WM actually has great gaming performance (so, little ghosting).

 

[BernardP]

Les Numeriques has reviewed the Samsung 226CW. It is still only available in French:

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/article-312-2156-36.html

Can be translated with Google. Basically they didn't like it

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mingus
How can I see the firmware on the Dell WFP2407-HC?

http://www.monitorsrc.com/24-inch/dell-2407wfp-review/

See "Firmware Revision Chart".

 

[bambooshoot]

Originally posted by: Shortass
Thanks for all your work xtknight, it's really appreciated. Reading through this entire thing was informative...

second that. i just wished i had read it sooner before getting an LCD.

 

[LightningRider]

Hey guys,

Can you help me out? I'm thinking of a new monitor, cause I wanna go widescreen and a little bigger than what I have now, but I'm dumbfounded as to which model to get.

I was thinking about the Samsung 226BW but after reading through this thread I am having second thoughts because of panel lottery. Most of the customers from where I order got C panels too...

I'm looking at a 22 incher, and I don't want it to be much if any over $400. What's important to me are gaming, but I also want something that's as clear as possible for desktop use too because I use my computer for office and development purposes as well. So I'm really not sure which would be the best for me. I see a lot of people recommend the 226BW but I'm scared of getting a bad panel.

Any help or recommendations?

 

[bambooshoot]

it's wise to stay away from these 2ms TN panels with all its RTC-related problems.

there's several 22' lcd reviews here--http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

if you don't mind a glossy panel, you may want to look at hp w2207.

 

[xxTurbonium]

Ok I think I might just pick up the L206WTQ-BF for 250CAD.

Does an extra 2 inches help a lot in terms of perceived viewing angle? Or is it the opposite? I'm inclined to think the larger the screen, the easier it is to notice poor viewing angles...

This is why I'm thinking of picking up a 20 inch instead of a 22. Besides, it has slightly better pixel pitch to boot.

 

[HYROGLiFiX]

I am not sure why, but I have gone to three different stores and all three HP 2207 monitors I have looked at have had very bad back light bleeding, 2 of them on the sides of the monitor and 1 on the top and bottom.

Has there been a change with this monitor with more recent models to get rid of the backlight bleed? in fairness all of the 2207's I saw at the stores where from around January.

If anyone has the answer I may have missed it in 65 pages... but is it possible to get a great TN panel withOUT backlight problems?

 

[Nnyan]

I've been holding off buying an LCD in the hopes that something better comes along in the near future. I am currently in the process of putting together a PC for a friend of mine (mostly installing additional software and getting her VPN setup, etc... since she ordered a Dell). B/c of this I've had a chance to play with the new Dell E228WFP. I was hesitant about working with this since my last few experiences with LCD's made me dizzy after I viewed them for awhile. But I have to say that after a few hours on this monitor I did not get any dizzyness. I did feel a bit of eye strain but I believe this is b/c the default brightness is too high (which tended to give things a pinkish tint), did some adjustments last night and it looks better and hopefully the eye strain is gone.

I did get a chance to play a few games (MMO's, FPS and RTS) and I have to say that I was very impressed with how great the games looked. Previous LCD's looked good to "oK" but I kept going back to my 21" CRT, but on the E228WFP things looked awesome. I tried really hard to see any ghosting or lag but I couldn't and every game I tried looked awesome (even though most options are disabled when connected digitally).

Yeah it's a TN and viewing angles are not the greatest but for my use they were fine. I did notice a bit of bleeding on top and bottom when viewing a complete black background but it wasn't too bad and not noticeable otherwise. Tonight I'll try a few movies and maybe another hour or two gaming. Hopefully the slight eye strain I felt was due to brightness.

I have the rest of the week to play with this monitor so we'll see how it goes, but if it goes well I'm going to seriously consider this. I'm not a graphics professional really just work on my PC and play games and so far this one looks really good.

 

[Skott]

Originally posted by: LightningRider
Hey guys,

Can you help me out? I'm thinking of a new monitor, cause I wanna go widescreen and a little bigger than what I have now, but I'm dumbfounded as to which model to get.

I was thinking about the Samsung 226BW but after reading through this thread I am having second thoughts because of panel lottery. Most of the customers from where I order got C panels too...

I'm looking at a 22 incher, and I don't want it to be much if any over $400. What's important to me are gaming, but I also want something that's as clear as possible for desktop use too because I use my computer for office and development purposes as well. So I'm really not sure which would be the best for me. I see a lot of people recommend the 226BW but I'm scared of getting a bad panel.

Any help or recommendations?

The two best 22" LCDs are the LG L226WTQ and the Samsung 226BW. In that order too. Acer has a new 22" that seems to be pretty good as well but I'm not sure how it compares with the other two. Technically the LG is still the best 22 LCD. I have L226WTQ(BF) and I love it. No ghosting at all. Some people complain about the TN panels and viewing angles but if you sit generally in front of the LCD its not going to be a problem. Ghosting is the bigger problem IMO and many of the 22" LCDs have significant ghosting problems from what I been hearing. So if you choose to go with a 22" choose with care.

Since you are using your monitor for developement work you may want to go with a 20" LCD since their panels are generally better for that type of applications. Check xtnkight's front page sticky for what would work best for you.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: bambooshoot

Originally posted by: Shortass
Thanks for all your work xtknight, it's really appreciated. Reading through this entire thing was informative...

second that. i just wished i had read it sooner before getting an LCD.

Sometimes I even find myself reading my own OP when I want to buy an LCD.

Originally posted by: LightningRider
Hey guys,

Can you help me out? I'm thinking of a new monitor, cause I wanna go widescreen and a little bigger than what I have now, but I'm dumbfounded as to which model to get.

I was thinking about the Samsung 226BW but after reading through this thread I am having second thoughts because of panel lottery. Most of the customers from where I order got C panels too...

I'm looking at a 22 incher, and I don't want it to be much if any over $400. What's important to me are gaming, but I also want something that's as clear as possible for desktop use too because I use my computer for office and development purposes as well. So I'm really not sure which would be the best for me. I see a lot of people recommend the 226BW but I'm scared of getting a bad panel.

Any help or recommendations?

The HP w2207 is a good choice for you. It'll be using a glossy panel which will deliver an image more clear than competing 22" AG (anti-glare/haze) panels.

The HP has been known to use Samsung and LG panels, both pretty decent. I haven't heard of it using AUO or CMO panels.

Originally posted by: Skott

Originally posted by: LightningRider
Hey guys,

Can you help me out? I'm thinking of a new monitor, cause I wanna go widescreen and a little bigger than what I have now, but I'm dumbfounded as to which model to get.

I was thinking about the Samsung 226BW but after reading through this thread I am having second thoughts because of panel lottery. Most of the customers from where I order got C panels too...

I'm looking at a 22 incher, and I don't want it to be much if any over $400. What's important to me are gaming, but I also want something that's as clear as possible for desktop use too because I use my computer for office and development purposes as well. So I'm really not sure which would be the best for me. I see a lot of people recommend the 226BW but I'm scared of getting a bad panel.

Any help or recommendations?

The two best 22" LCDs are the LG L226WTQ and the Samsung 226BW. In that order too. Acer has a new 22" that seems to be pretty good as well but I'm not sure how it compares with the other two. Technically the LG is still the best 22 LCD. I have L226WTQ(BF) and I love it. No ghosting at all. Some people complain about the TN panels and viewing angles but if you sit generally in front of the LCD its not going to be a problem. Ghosting is the bigger problem IMO and many of the 22" LCDs have significant ghosting problems from what I been hearing. So if you choose to go with a 22" choose with care.

Since you are using your monitor for developement work you may want to go with a 20" LCD since their panels are generally better for that type of applications. Check xtnkight's front page sticky for what would work best for you.

On the contrary I tend to like 22" panels better for text work. The 22" TNs are high contrast and they have a dot pitch that's just right for text work.

I believe the order goes like this (left-most=highest quality):

Samsung 226BW(S)>LG L226WT>Samsung 226BW(A)>Samsung 226BW(C)

Unfortunately finding an S panel is hard these days.

I have used the L226WT myself and I am very happy with it overall. I've never seen or tried a 226BW(S/A/C) yet.

For gaming lower latency 20.1" panels can be better than 22" panels, but with the L226WTQ and latest firmware I doubt this is the case anymore. The 226BW(S) bests the 20WMGX2's response time.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: databird
Ok I think I might just pick up the L206WTQ-BF for 250CAD.

Does an extra 2 inches help a lot in terms of perceived viewing angle? Or is it the opposite? I'm inclined to think the larger the screen, the easier it is to notice poor viewing angles...

This is why I'm thinking of picking up a 20 inch instead of a 22. Besides, it has slightly better pixel pitch to boot.

It's easier to notice poor viewing angles with a larger screen. So, yes, 20.1" wide isn't such a bad option. I find 22" great for text size though. I prefer the L226WT over my 20WMGX2 for text work. (However, I don't prefer my rev 2 ViewSonic VP930b over much of anything anymore ;P)

Originally posted by: HYROGLiFiX
I am not sure why, but I have gone to three different stores and all three HP 2207 monitors I have looked at have had very bad back light bleeding, 2 of them on the sides of the monitor and 1 on the top and bottom.

Has there been a change with this monitor with more recent models to get rid of the backlight bleed? in fairness all of the 2207's I saw at the stores where from around January.

If anyone has the answer I may have missed it in 65 pages... but is it possible to get a great TN panel withOUT backlight problems?

TN panels are difficult to manufacture without uniformity problems due to their nature. S-PVA panels are easiest to get uniform, and S-IPS ones are easier than TNs to get uniform.

You probably won't notice it that much unless you play dark games, in which case I'd stick with a VA/IPS panel. I saw a comparison of the w2207 and an old Dell VA panel, and the Dell really demolished it in dark scenes. I don't think that particular Dell is available anymore though. The Dell 1907FPV (VA) may be an option but I haven't seen reviews of it and I have no idea what kind of response time performance it really has.

Originally posted by: bambooshoot
it's wise to stay away from these 2ms TN panels with all its RTC-related problems.

there's several 22' lcd reviews here--http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/reviews.html

if you don't mind a glossy panel, you may want to look at hp w2207.

Only a few have bad RTC issues. Other than that, you'll get single pixel movement-flickering with any LCD w/ RTC, not just 22".

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nnyan
I've been holding off buying an LCD in the hopes that something better comes along in the near future. I am currently in the process of putting together a PC for a friend of mine (mostly installing additional software and getting her VPN setup, etc... since she ordered a Dell). B/c of this I've had a chance to play with the new Dell E228WFP. I was hesitant about working with this since my last few experiences with LCD's made me dizzy after I viewed them for awhile. But I have to say that after a few hours on this monitor I did not get any dizzyness. I did feel a bit of eye strain but I believe this is b/c the default brightness is too high (which tended to give things a pinkish tint), did some adjustments last night and it looks better and hopefully the eye strain is gone.

I did get a chance to play a few games (MMO's, FPS and RTS) and I have to say that I was very impressed with how great the games looked. Previous LCD's looked good to "oK" but I kept going back to my 21" CRT, but on the E228WFP things looked awesome. I tried really hard to see any ghosting or lag but I couldn't and every game I tried looked awesome (even though most options are disabled when connected digitally).

Yeah it's a TN and viewing angles are not the greatest but for my use they were fine. I did notice a bit of bleeding on top and bottom when viewing a complete black background but it wasn't too bad and not noticeable otherwise. Tonight I'll try a few movies and maybe another hour or two gaming. Hopefully the slight eye strain I felt was due to brightness.

I have the rest of the week to play with this monitor so we'll see how it goes, but if it goes well I'm going to seriously consider this. I'm not a graphics professional really just work on my PC and play games and so far this one looks really good.

Interesting, good to hear. You may have good luck when it's time to step up (in size), too, if the E228 makes you happy.

 

[Nnyan]

honestly xtknight based on my previous experiences with Dell LCD's (have not been lucky at all) I almost didn't connect this one up at all. I'm glad I did. I did find a post on these forums for a calibrated setting but the brightness he gave there was even higher then default and made the pinkish tint on grays even worse. Bumping it down made things a great deal better. All of this has really made me start considering getting one of those calibration meters. I'll post updates after I had a few days to play on it.

 

[Pithlit]

I am still looking at the deals, I should buy a new monitor that week. I have found prices like that, anything worth looking closer? 226BW deals are dead and they are for about $320 now, not worth it.

Acer X221Wsd 22" - $200 from that Sunday
Samsung 216BW 21,6" - $230, I don't know how it compares to 226BW...
ViewSonic VA2026W Black-Silver 20" - $210
Acer X191WSD 19? - $150 [that would be a really cheap solution]
V7 Series 22" - $220, never heard of them
Acer AL2216WBD 22" - $200
Hanns·G HG-216DPO Silver/Black 22" - #215, but with useless built-in speakers
Dell E228WFP - $280
LG L204WT - $220
CHIMEI CMV 221D-NBC Black 22" - $220

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: Pithlit
I am still looking at the deals, I should buy a new monitor that week. I have found prices like that, anything worth looking closer? 226BW deals are dead and they are for about $320 now, not worth it.

Acer X221Wsd 22" - $200 from that Sunday
Samsung 216BW 21,6" - $250, I don't know how it compares to 226BW...
ViewSonic VA2026W Black-Silver 20" - $210
Acer X191WSD 19? - $150 [that would be a really cheap solution]
V7 Series 22" - $220, never heard of them
Acer AL2216WBD 22" - $200
Hanns·G HG-216DPO Silver/Black 22" - #215, but with useless built-in speakers
Dell E228WFP - $280

If you like glossy screens, the Acer X221Wsd is a good choice.

Check out this review of the very similar X222Wbd

 

[Butterbean]

Newegg just put the NEC 20WMGX2 on rebate again (through Nov 7). This time though they made the silver one cheaper than the black one - $379.

 

[Pithlit]

BernardP:

Is there any difference in them except for X222 having built-in speakers? That review states it is just a bit worse than HP w2207, which is now for over $350, so a huge difference.

P.S. LG L204WT will be for $220 at CC.

 

[LightningRider]

Hey guys thanks for the responses above.

I'm probably not gonna buy right away but I am considering the LG L226WA, it's basically the 2ms version of the WT. I haven't really heard anything bad about this LCD yet so I am seriously probably gonna go with this if I get a 22".

BUT... I've been thinking of 24 inchers now... Looks like I'm getting carried away perhaps but they look tempting. Considering I can get at least $200 off whatever I buy at NCIX.com.

I'm thinking that if I go for a 24", the Samsung SyncMaster 245B might be a good choice. There's no lottery game with this Samsung, correct? I haven't seen any talk about any anyway.

Basically now I'm wondering what would be best for me and what would last the longest. I don't wanna get a 22" only to want a 24" later or get a 24" and wish I had a better one after that. Again the things I would be using it for are mostly gaming and general usage. But I like my text to be clear. Oh, and yes I do development on this computer but not extensively. I usually do that outside of my home, so it's not the most important thing. Just having nice clear and crisp text is nice for me.

So what's best for me do you think? I'm having a hard time deciding... LG L226WA or Samsung SyncMaster 245B? I can get 100$ off on the LG L226WA but I can get $200 off the 245B since it's on NCIX.com and I have a gift certificate. Or maybe I should save up for a better 24"?

And what's the difference between the 245B and the 245BW, just the glossy panel? Thanks a lot guys. LCD buying is a tricky thing.

 

[Eagle784]

I called Acer today about the AL2052W and they told me it isn't going to be sold in the US. Also the AL2051W is officially discontinued and no US replacement is planned. I can't believe I have to spend $350 (or however much the 2007wfp goes for) if I want a decent 20" panel. Shoulda risked buying the AL2051W from newegg.

 

[eros28]

Hi all,

I am writing this to help people in the same boat I was in until today.

I bought the Samsung 245BW on Monday for under $500 CDN at a local big box store. I did like what I saw when I turned it on, text was crisp, colors where good, but the panel was overly bright right out the box. I saw a smudge inside the panel, I thought I had touched it and tried to wipe it off with a terry cloth but it didn't not come out.

Today I decided to take the 245BW back and look at a monitor that I originally wanted which was the BenQ FP241WZ (which I paid a bit over $600 CDN). I paid and extra $100 but I believe it's worth it. The screen is awesome and no dead pixels. I'm not too crazy about the "perfect motion" option. The text is crisp, the colors are great out of the box and the best parts is that there is no leaks in a black background!

A $100 dollar premium is a jump but over the lower priced Samsung but to have a near perfect screen it's worth it.

 

[Shortass]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Newegg just put the NEC 20WMGX2 on rebate again (through Nov 7). This time though they made the silver one cheaper than the black one - $379.

Holy shi*t, I was sad that I missed the first rebate.. now I have to choose between the white 20WMGX2 and a used vx2025wm for half the price. WHY DO I HAVE TO GET MORE OPTIONS AT THE LAST MINUTE EVERY TIME!?!?

I've been thinking, and I'm intending to use this monitor for probably 3-4 years or until some insane deal comes along (24" AS-IPS with the features of a 2407wfp for $200, etc.). Money sucks to lose, but with SO MANY good reviews of the 20WMGX2 I almost have to get it.

Now the question comes down to... white for $380 or black for $420...