[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: trajan
Just a quick note on the BenQ FP241WZ. After much neurotic worrying I finally bought one, goaded in part by the rapidly degrading quality of my 5 year old CRT. But getting it was hard. This model is confirmed to be discontinued, and 6 of the 9 sellers I contacted, who had it listed, told me they were sold out.

Of the three remaining, one had 10 left and was selling them at a huge markup (~$950 US). Another was Amazon, which said it would take 3-5 weeks to ship. When I called them, they said they didn't actually have any, but if I ordered they would get one. (I doubt it.). The last place swore they have them and was luckily the lowest priced offering of the 10.

All this is to say... if you want one, go buy it right now, and be prepared to search around a lot. And this monitor should probably be delisted.


I'm hesitant to ask, given that I just paid for one, but does anyone have another/better suggestion for a 24-27" gaming screen? Something under $1000?

Yup, the AL2051W/FP241WZ have been delisted for being out of stock. Also the FP241W has gone up in place of the Z.

The Planar PX2611W is one excellent possibility. The Samsung 275T isn't a bad idea either.

Originally posted by: Filbert
Question. Does anyone know off the top of their heads what kind of panel this Compaq LCD Monitor has?

My cousin bought one, and over paid for it judging by the Newegg price, and wondered.

Clear as day to me that that is a TN panel.

Originally posted by: Skott
xtknight,
Do you know anything about the Dell UltraSharp 1708FP 17 LCD? I got a special project that requires a 17" LCD for gaming and movies/multimedia. I'm wondering how it would be. Or do you know of a better 17" LCD for such use? Looking to keep it below $300 in cost. Adjustable stand is a plus and/or if the LCD detaches easily from stand a bigger plus but not totally crucial. Looking to be able to place the monitor in a gym locker. Yeah, I know it sounds funny but thats where its going to be secured in at night.

Don't know much about the 1708FP (besides that it's a TN).

The NEC 70GX2 (glossy) would be my first choice for a 17" display (particularly for gaming/movies). $210/$160 AR here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002121

It has a thin bezel. I think it'll be just fine for you.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
I have a question about "repolarizing" a laptop LCD. Does anyone know about this? and is it worth it? I'm getting a new Thinkpad and wanted to know how much of an improvement I could get by doing this.

Sorry, I don't know anything about this. Worth it? I doubt it. Most laptop LCDs are so poor to begin with...

Originally posted by: Scalarscience
Finally getting around to looking at spending some $ on a monitor (started this a month ago or so but have been busy). I was fairly convinced by xtknight's previous replies to get the Samsung 275t. However I had also considered the BenQ 24" WZ model that is now discontinued because of its better timings and better support for sRGB (photoshop etc have color correction for when I do CMYK of course, versus having to use color correction with the samsung to do sRGB as well). I see the PLANAR PX2611W as a relative option, and am curious how it compares for my needs which I'll restate:

primary use: Graphic design - print/CMYK+process color, web design, some 3D animation/tv work
secondary use: Audio production (hobby, and really anything would be suitable here I think at this size)
third use: gaming (I don't play every game but I am a diehard UT fan and UT3 is about to come out)

The Planar seems to fall between a 24" and the 27" samsung on dot pitch and I'm wondering how it compares otherwise? Any comments on the PLANAR PX2611W versus the SAMSUNG 275T for cmyk, sRGB and gaming?

The PX2611W may even be a better option for you if it has less input lag. It may not be quite as uniform as the 275T though it may, potentially, produce a better image. Due to lack of reviews on the PX2611W, I don't know the answer to this. If it were me I'd be going with the Planar, actually, since it's an S-IPS (at least for your purposes). That's why it's #2 on my print-target recommendations and the 275T is lower. It must not have crossed my mind before. I'm still on the fence when it comes to PX2611W vs. 275T for my own purposes but the Planar continues to look convincing.

Four primary differences I believe you will notice (this is conjecture based off my own IPS and MVA panel):

• Colors will appear more natural on the S-IPS panel with more uninhibited midtone detail.
• The S-IPS panel will not have angle-dependent loss of dark detail.
• The S-IPS panel (unpolarized, e.g. PX2611W) will have a violet hue at wider viewing angles which the S-PVA will not have.
• The S-PVA panel will appear more harsh due to higher contrast.

Of course, both panels are great for most anybody. But that doesn't make the above points any less valid.

The dark detail point is certainly valid against all VA panels. Whether the S-PVA or S-IPS will look more natural is anyone's guess but I'd give the edge to the S-IPS.

Also of note, NEC has had some insane (well, relatively) deals on their 90 series like the LCD2490WUXi. I thought I saw it for $1000 the other day when it's normally $1400. That's not wide gamut, though it is extremely accurate w/ colors and has the polarization film to prevent typical purple tints of S-IPS panels (I know the LCD26 has it, and I think the LCD24 has it also).

For the price I don't think you can beat the PX2611/275T, though. They're likely better than the LCD24 for your purposes specifically.

 

[rxblitzrx]

Originally posted by: Skott
From what little I know of it its rather expensive plus you have to send it in to be done. Most people just get a new lcd. How badly is yours scratched?

So this is what I've found out. It's not "repolarizing", it's changing from anti-glare to anti-reflective... or you can call it changing to glossy. This process does require repolarizing your LCD screen.

Screentek, in Houston, will do this for $100 and it looks like they've been around a long time. I guess this is nothing special, but for Thinkpad owners who have always wanted a glossy LCD, this is the way to get it.

Dell TruLife, Sony XBRITE, etc..... now available for Thinkpads (and other non-glossy LCDs) via "pixelbright mod" from Screentek.

 

[Scalarscience]

Ok I spent a day reading reviews on the Planar and it seems that there are some discrepencides in the gamma and color tracking that are not as easily resolved via the OSD as they are on the NEC using the same panel. The 275t's seems to be more than adequately adjustable, although I might have to invest in a new color calibration system here in the near future (the one I have atm is nearly 10 years old). The Planar seems to have only 1 frame of input lag (?? - versus a possible 2 with the 275t) but I'm going to just deal with it in online gaming and shoot for what seems a better monitor from a company i'm more familiar with. The 275t is only $50 more so the price differential doesn't make any difference so...I'll report back on my final purchase once the unit arrives and has been installed.

Thanks for your very informative thread and excellent help to everyone.

 

[zod96]

Does anyone know if the Nec 90GX2 Pro model is out yet here in the USA? I can't seem to find it anywhere but in europe. Heck I can't even find the regular nec 90gx2 anywhere in the USA as well. Well I can but they want some overinflated price for it, like $400 :-(

 

[imported_Buckfutter]

So.. the LG Flatron L1960TR is the very best LCD monitor out there for gaming to this date?

Is there a difference from L1960TR to L1960TR-BF?

/Buckfutter.

 

[wittangamo]

I noticed that the specs for the LG Flatron L226WTQ appear to be off. It claims a 2 ms response time, same as the Sammy 226BW. The Q model is NOT the same as the older WT. All else appearing equal, I don't understand why the Samsung is recommended for gaming and the LG isn't. TN panel, same refresh, equal image quality, and currently a lower price.

If I'm missing something, please set me straight.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zod96
Does anyone know if the Nec 90GX2 Pro model is out yet here in the USA? I can't seem to find it anywhere but in europe. Heck I can't even find the regular nec 90gx2 anywhere in the USA as well. Well I can but they want some overinflated price for it, like $400 :-(

I believe they are in the phase of discontinuing it. The Pro may be showing up shortly in place of the 90GX2. May be the same w/ the 20WMGX2.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: wittangamo
I noticed that the specs for the LG Flatron L226WTQ appear to be off. It claims a 2 ms response time, same as the Sammy 226BW. The Q model is NOT the same as the older WT. All else appearing equal, I don't understand why the Samsung is recommended for gaming and the LG isn't. TN panel, same refresh, equal image quality, and currently a lower price.

If I'm missing something, please set me straight.

The LG isn't recommended for gaming because it's a little slower and has had a history of RTC problems. The Samsung 226BW is cheaper, available at more places, and has a better actual response time/very low input lag. I don't know about the input lag on the LG but I'd guess it's the same as the other 22" screens (16-32ms).

All that said the LG isn't a bad choice for gaming but it's not on my top list for now. I tend to have either the best of one particular size, or all of that particular size that are <10 ms input lag.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Buckfutter
So.. the LG Flatron L1960TR is the very best LCD monitor out there for gaming to this date?

Is there a difference from L1960TR to L1960TR-BF?

/Buckfutter.

Yup, I believe the LG is the best gaming panel out there today. Great response time, RTC control, and decent gamma.

See here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...splay/19inch-5_14.html

BF means black bezel, SF means silver bezel.

 

[Mallomar]

I'm looking for a 24" (or thereabouts) LCD monitor to use for desktop publishing on PC. I don't know anything about LCDs except what I've read in this extremely informative thread, and some of it's over my head.

Although I'm not a Photoshop power user, I often have to adjust poor-quality photos so they can be printed (usually traditional offset printing), so it's important that I have a monitor capable of displaying skin tones, etc., as accurately as possible (without spending a zillion dollars). I don't do any gaming.

Right now I'm using a lovely 21" Mitsubishi Spectraview CRT, so I'd like to replace it with something that will measure up. I don't want to spend more than $1,500, but wouldn't mind spending less.

I know I don't want a glossy screen, and I definitely want a high-quality, high-rez monitor. I wear progressive trifocals, so I move my head a lot (with progressives, you can't just look through the sides of the lenses, you have to look through the centers), so I gather that viewing angles are important. I spent a lot of time in front of the monitor, so it would be nice if it were adjustable (height, tilt, etc.) so I don't get a crick in my neck.

From reading the info at the beginning of this thread, I assume I need to consider the S-IPS models listed in the PRINT-TARGET MEDIA PROCESSING recommendations section. The first two monitors on the list are 25.5" which is larger than what I want, but maybe I should consider them. The third one, a 30" Dell, I think is just too big for me. The 25.5" Planar is about $500 less than the NEC, but I'd rather spend the extra money than end up with a monitor I don't love.

None of the stores around here carry high-end LCD monitors, so it's tough to make a decision on an expensive monitor sight-unseen. I've looked at the LCDs at Best Buy and the Dell 24 and 30 (at a Dell kiosk), but nobody carries the NEC, Eizo, Planar, etc.

TIA for any specific recommendations or suggestions on how to make a choice.

 

[wittangamo]

The LG isn't recommended for gaming because it's a little slower and has had a history of RTC problems. The Samsung 226BW is cheaper, available at more places, and has a better actual response time/very low input lag. I don't know about the input lag on the LG but I'd guess it's the same as the other 22" screens (16-32ms).

All that said the LG isn't a bad choice for gaming but it's not on my top list for now. I tend to have either the best of one particular size, or all of that particular size that are <10 ms input lag.

Don't mean to be argumentative, but the LG firmware update, 1.14, that fixed the RTC problems came out in June. The response time of 2 ms is the same as the Samsung.

Here's a quote from the X-bit Labs review of the Q:

"The response time is the parameter the L226WTQ can surprise you with. The response average is 2.2 milliseconds GtG with a maximum of 7.3 milliseconds. Compare this with monitors that lack response time compensation: notwithstanding the small difference in the specified speeds, the real difference is eightfold!"

Your specs on the first page of this thread link to DigitalVersus.com, where the response time of the Q is listed as higher than the older T. Those numbers contradict the X-bit measurements (and common sense.)

Lowering response times for the Q was what initially caused the RTC errors LG fixed five months ago with the newer firmware. My monitor does not have that problem, and I've tried the "red dot" test and others many time.

Price depends on when and where you buy. The LG was $280 this week at Best Buy, and that's cheaper than I could find the Samsung anywhere. Most places the difference is $10-20.

The Samsung is a good choice and your reasons for picking it are sound -- I just think the stats cited for the LG are wrong and the RTC criticism no longer holds true.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mallomar
I'm looking for a 24" (or thereabouts) LCD monitor to use for desktop publishing on PC. I don't know anything about LCDs except what I've read in this extremely informative thread, and some of it's over my head.

Although I'm not a Photoshop power user, I often have to adjust poor-quality photos so they can be printed (usually traditional offset printing), so it's important that I have a monitor capable of displaying skin tones, etc., as accurately as possible (without spending a zillion dollars). I don't do any gaming.

Right now I'm using a lovely 21" Mitsubishi Spectraview CRT, so I'd like to replace it with something that will measure up. I don't want to spend more than $1,500, but wouldn't mind spending less.

I know I don't want a glossy screen, and I definitely want a high-quality, high-rez monitor. I wear progressive trifocals, so I move my head a lot (with progressives, you can't just look through the sides of the lenses, you have to look through the centers), so I gather that viewing angles are important. I spent a lot of time in front of the monitor, so it would be nice if it were adjustable (height, tilt, etc.) so I don't get a crick in my neck.

From reading the info at the beginning of this thread, I assume I need to consider the S-IPS models listed in the PRINT-TARGET MEDIA PROCESSING recommendations section. The first two monitors on the list are 25.5" which is larger than what I want, but maybe I should consider them. The third one, a 30" Dell, I think is just too big for me. The 25.5" Planar is about $500 less than the NEC, but I'd rather spend the extra money than end up with a monitor I don't love.

At $1500 generally you will be looking at screens 27" and over. But, there are some smaller+higher quality options for that price.

I think you should take a good look at the NEC LCD2690WUXi. I believe it meets and exceeds all your needs. It is only $1200 at Newegg and it's probably one of the best monitors ever.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002169

None of the stores around here carry high-end LCD monitors, so it's tough to make a decision on an expensive monitor sight-unseen. I've looked at the LCDs at Best Buy and the Dell 24 and 30 (at a Dell kiosk), but nobody carries the NEC, Eizo, Planar, etc.

TIA for any specific recommendations or suggestions on how to make a choice.

Well, yes, $1200 is something you may want to see before you buy it, especially if you have never used an LCD before (or, an IPS LCD). At the same time, I am pretty confident you will be happy with this display. But, just so you're not surprised:

- The CRT will have a lower black level, and thus it will show more saturation in dark tones.
- Viewing angles of S-IPS screens aren't absolutely perfect, but on this display they are very good. This display has extra compensation film to lessen the typical violet hues of S-IPS panels, improving black levels.

This display has gotten so much, freakishly cheaper (~$1600->$1200) I may begin to consider it over the Planar. Over all I think the image quality of the NEC 26" will knock your socks off.

If you have any concerns about the size let me know. I would probably direct you to the NEC LCD2490WUXi which has similar merits to the 24". Except, the 26" version is wide gamut, coming closer to your DiamondTron's gamut (if it's one of those 100%+ NTSC models). The 24" has a typical 72% NTSC gamut (matching sRGB).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: wittangamo
Don't mean to be argumentative, but the LG firmware update, 1.14, that fixed the RTC problems came out in June. The response time of 2 ms is the same as the Samsung.

Here's a quote from the X-bit Labs review of the Q:

"The response time is the parameter the L226WTQ can surprise you with. The response average is 2.2 milliseconds GtG with a maximum of 7.3 milliseconds. Compare this with monitors that lack response time compensation: notwithstanding the small difference in the specified speeds, the real difference is eightfold!"

Your specs on the first page of this thread link to DigitalVersus.com, where the response time of the Q is listed as higher than the older T. Those numbers contradict the X-bit measurements (and common sense.)

I was not aware actually that the Q had such a low actual response time.

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...&mo2=224&p2=2104&ph=12

If you look at this, the Q has a input lag of 2 frames, or ~32 ms (never much less, never more). That's a bit more than I'd like. I forgot to mention that.

That said, I used an L226WT (regular) and didn't notice much except for lower response time. But I'm not as sensitive as some people, apparently.

Even for gaming I may recommend displays with 50 ms input lag (well only one (FP241W), and that's the max rating) but this is only because they are the best in their size in practically every aspect. I realize it may be confusing. For gaming/input lag it appears the 226BW (even A panel) is significantly better even if the response time/RTC error is roughly equal (which I was not able to confirm through X-Bit or THG).

If it makes more sense to you this way, I just place the upper echelon of panels in size X under the gaming list. I would not call the Q with 2 frames of input lag part of the upper bracket for 22" panels since the 226BW appears to do quite a bit better. Other panels like the Dell E228WFP also do better, but I don't like the quality control of the Dell E monitors much (they have had inverter issues, also more backlight bleeding). Some of the other 22" panels have good input lag performance but slow response time.

Lowering response times for the Q was what initially caused the RTC errors LG fixed five months ago with the newer firmware. My monitor does not have that problem, and I've tried the "red dot" test and others many time.

Price depends on when and where you buy. The LG was $280 this week at Best Buy, and that's cheaper than I could find the Samsung anywhere. Most places the difference is $10-20.

The Samsung is a good choice and your reasons for picking it are sound -- I just think the stats cited for the LG are wrong and the RTC criticism no longer holds true.

I own a L226WT and actually I am quite happy with it. I'm on the fence of recommending the Q under the 226BW but the higher input lag has me on the other side. I believe I can trust that the RTC errors have been fixed without waiting for X-Bit/THG to look at it again. For now I believe the correct thing to do is leave the 226BW up there only.

I noticed that I did make a mistake on my page. I linked to the L226WT DigitalVersus and not the Q one, for the Q/Y models and the input lag times were incorrect. Thanks for bringing the L226 to my attention and I appreciate the criticism. If it weren't for the input lag issue, the Q would be right up there. The 226BW's performance overall is quite stunning though so I believe it earns the throne.

 

[wittangamo]

Fair enough. Thanks for the explanation, and the correction. I shopped both and picked the LG for my HTPC and gaming rig. Couldn't be happer.

Your input and work on this thread is much appreciated.

 

[Skott]

I can testify, and I know others have already done so, that the L226WTQ is a great gaming LCD screen. LG claims its 2ms response time same as the Samsung. I havent seen the Samsung in action though so I couldnt say which has a prettier picture. Personally, considering Samsung has had more problems since LG fixed their problems (firmware 1.14)the L226WTQ is a better choice. I just tell people to get a WTQ(BF) model to be on the safe side.

 

[Mallomar]

Originally posted by: xtknight

At $1500 generally you will be looking at screens 27" and over. But, there are some smaller+higher quality options for that price.

I think you should take a good look at the NEC LCD2690WUXi. I believe it meets and exceeds all your needs. It is only $1200 at Newegg and it's probably one of the best monitors ever.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002169

Well, yes, $1200 is something you may want to see before you buy it, especially if you have never used an LCD before (or, an IPS LCD). At the same time, I am pretty confident you will be happy with this display. But, just so you're not surprised:

- The CRT will have a lower black level, and thus it will show more saturation in dark tones.
- Viewing angles of S-IPS screens aren't absolutely perfect, but on this display they are very good. This display has extra compensation film to lessen the typical violet hues of S-IPS panels, improving black levels.

This display has gotten so much, freakishly cheaper (~$1600->$1200) I may begin to consider it over the Planar. Over all I think the image quality of the NEC 26" will knock your socks off.

If you have any concerns about the size let me know. I would probably direct you to the NEC LCD2490WUXi which has similar merits to the 24". Except, the 26" version is wide gamut, coming closer to your DiamondTron's gamut (if it's one of those 100%+ NTSC models). The 24" has a typical 72% NTSC gamut (matching sRGB).

Thanks for your very helpful response. The LCD2690WUXi does sound very good, but I'm not sure if I would have trouble adapting to a display that large, having never used anything larger than the 21" CRT (and never having used an LCD at all). Maybe I'll go to the local Best Buy or Dell kiosk and compare sizes. (Although I think Dell has only 24" and 30".)

Could you please clarify (in as non-technical terms as possible!) the difference in gamut between the LCD2690WUXi and the LCD2490WUXi? And how it would affect things such as image quality and color accuracy in Photoshop? Wider gamut means a wider range of colors that can be displayed, right? (I should know this stuff, but I don't -- I've read the info at the beginning of the thread a couple of times, but find it confusing.) I gather than wider gamut is better, but only in 8-bit LCDs?

My Mitsubishi is a SpectaView1000, IIRC with a DiamondTron tube, but I don't know if it's a "100%=NTSC" model.

If the bottom line is that the wider gamut in the larger NEC would give me a significantly better ("more natural and believable") picture than the "typical" gamut in the 24", then I should probably go for the 26". It would be a pity to spend a bundle on the 24" and not be happy with the image quality. My gut feeling is that the 26" is The One.

With either of the NECs, is it a good idea to get some sort of calibration software and/or device? The price difference for the models with the SpectraView is pretty steep, so I don't think I'm gonna spring for that.

 

[Mallomar]

Originally posted by: xtknight

I think you should take a good look at the NEC LCD2690WUXi. I believe it meets and exceeds all your needs. It is only $1200 at Newegg and it's probably one of the best monitors ever..

I just looked at the spec sheet for the LCD2690WUXi, and if I'm reading it correctly it says it has only an analog input. Does that matter? Would it be better to get a model that has a digital input?

 

[Fill in the]

I am going to build a new system soon and will be mostly likely getting a 22" (or 20") widescreen lcd monitor. I am going to use it for mainly for movies and some casual gaming.

In the OP under multimedia it ranks the only 20"/22" widescreens: 10th - 226BW ($330), 11th - L226WTQ ($330), 12th - W2207 ($400) and 14th - 206BW ($300) as the only monitors that are within my budget (the NEC is $655 and all the prices are in Canadian).

But after looking at the rankings and the part about the Samsung panel lotteries I was wondering if all the panels of the 226BW are better than the LG and HP monitors or only the S panel. Also I was wondering if that is the ranking if I was predominantly watching movies; I also have a window behind me.

On DigitalVersus it also lists that the WTQ has a greater delay than the WT, is this something to be considered? Also are there any opinions on the Samsung 226CW?

 

[wittangamo]

I spent a lot of time staring at the 226BW, 226CW and L226WTQ. They all looked good, and I really don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

IMHO, the Samsung panel lottery and LG RTC error complaints are overblown and outdated. Specwise, they match up closely in the things that matter. The CW's alleged advantage in color gamut doesn't show up in normal use on movies and games and aren't worth the bigger pricetag.

I wound up buying the LG because I liked the styling, found the interface simple to use, and got a great sale price. I spent some time trying to self-calibrate, then found that a downloaded color profile got me good results with less hassle.

I play a lot of HD DVDs on my LG, and consider the reproduction top-notch. It does have a narrow vertical viewing angle, shared by all the 22" monitors because they all use a TN panel, but as long as you view it straight on you won't be disappointed.

As you've already noticed, quality 24" monitors come at a steep price increase, and the 22" variety seem to be the sweet spot at present.

Let your own eyes be the judge, let your wallet decide, or flip a coin. Between the Sammy and LG, there is no loser.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mallomar

Originally posted by: xtknight

I think you should take a good look at the NEC LCD2690WUXi. I believe it meets and exceeds all your needs. It is only $1200 at Newegg and it's probably one of the best monitors ever..

I just looked at the spec sheet for the LCD2690WUXi, and if I'm reading it correctly it says it has only an analog input. Does that matter? Would it be better to get a model that has a digital input?

The LCD2690WUXi has DVI too.

Input Connectors: DVI-D, DVI-I & VGA 15-pin D-Sub

http://www.necdisplay.com/Prod...4aab-9447-73dacb301b84

I think you were looking at the Video/Sync specs (lower level specs).

 

[imported_Buckfutter]

There is 2 models of the L226WTQ.. L226WTQ-WF and L226WTQ-SF.

The WF have a higher pricetag, so whats the difference?

/Buckfutter.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Buckfutter
There is 2 models of the L226WTQ.. L226WTQ-WF and L226WTQ-SF.

The WF have a higher pricetag, so whats the difference?

/Buckfutter.

The WF has a black frame/white stand, that is the only difference that I know of. It's not uncommon for different bezel colors to be more expensive (but I don't know why this is). One reason maybe that silver/white bezels tend to have TCO certification and some black ones don't (I believe because of contrast/eye sensitivity).

SF has a silver frame/black stand, at least according to this thread: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...RTPAGE=6&enterthread=y

Makes sense to me.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mallomar
Thanks for your very helpful response. The LCD2690WUXi does sound very good, but I'm not sure if I would have trouble adapting to a display that large, having never used anything larger than the 21" CRT (and never having used an LCD at all). Maybe I'll go to the local Best Buy or Dell kiosk and compare sizes. (Although I think Dell has only 24" and 30".)

Could you please clarify (in as non-technical terms as possible!) the difference in gamut between the LCD2690WUXi and the LCD2490WUXi? And how it would affect things such as image quality and color accuracy in Photoshop? Wider gamut means a wider range of colors that can be displayed, right? (I should know this stuff, but I don't -- I've read the info at the beginning of the thread a couple of times, but find it confusing.) I gather than wider gamut is better, but only in 8-bit LCDs?

A wider gamut is like having a bigger palette with the same amount of colors.

e.g., with a wide gamut monitor you can paint (example, not actual nums)
[red 92%, green 92%, blue 92%]

but with a lesser gamut one, you can only do
[red 72%, green 72%, blue 72%]

When you combine colors that are more pure (92>72) you can reproduce colors farther out there. With the same bit-depth however (8-bit), the wide gamut monitor can reproduce different colors, but not more colors. The 256 shades will be spread out over a wider area with the wider gamut monitor.

Put it this way: you are in charge of a party and you can select 4 drinks. Are you going to choose Diet Coke, Coke, Pepsi, and Diet Pepsi? Or, Coffee, Mountain Dew, Coke, and Vitamin Water? You get a wide range of tastes with the latter, yet you cater to more specific tastes with the former. But they are all the same quality drinks. And they all contain varying amounts of caffeine or different proteins (R/G/B components). But if you want vodka you have to go for the LED backlighting solution.

My Mitsubishi is a SpectaView1000, IIRC with a DiamondTron tube, but I don't know if it's a "100%=NTSC" model.

If the bottom line is that the wider gamut in the larger NEC would give me a significantly better ("more natural and believable") picture than the "typical" gamut in the 24", then I should probably go for the 26". It would be a pity to spend a bundle on the 24" and not be happy with the image quality. My gut feeling is that the 26" is The One.

Yes, I think the 26" is The One for you also. Wide gamut is nice to have especially for print-matching.

With either of the NECs, is it a good idea to get some sort of calibration software and/or device? The price difference for the models with the SpectraView is pretty steep, so I don't think I'm gonna spring for that.

I think it's a good idea but it's not a necessity. An Eye One Display 2 is just as good (w/ custom software like basICColor) and it's cheaper. I think there is other software that can write to the LUT of the LCD2690WUXi by now, but I don't even know if you need to worry about getting a calibrator. The LCD26 is so good by default...

If you look here though the SV version is ~$1500:
http://www.necdisplay.com/Prod...4223-b75e-c23e8b085ed7

So maybe Newegg will update the prices soon as well. If it's only $1500 then definitely get the SV over the regular version. Or here $1400/free shipping: http://www.buy.com/retail/prod...Term=204088977&Type=CJ

It pays to shop around. Whenever Newegg gets it back in stock you can count on it being a lot cheaper there also. I think having the SV software is worth it since it writes to the LUT of the monitor instead of the graphics card, which is more reliable and may give you more colors. It'll work across every OS easily that way too. Plus it's just easier to use than other solutions.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Fill in the
I am going to build a new system soon and will be mostly likely getting a 22" (or 20") widescreen lcd monitor. I am going to use it for mainly for movies and some casual gaming.

In the OP under multimedia it ranks the only 20"/22" widescreens: 10th - 226BW ($330), 11th - L226WTQ ($330), 12th - W2207 ($400) and 14th - 206BW ($300) as the only monitors that are within my budget (the NEC is $655 and all the prices are in Canadian).

But after looking at the rankings and the part about the Samsung panel lotteries I was wondering if all the panels of the 226BW are better than the LG and HP monitors or only the S panel. Also I was wondering if that is the ranking if I was predominantly watching movies; I also have a window behind me.

If you want a real answer then I'm going to have to say "I don't know". That is, I don't know if 226BW C or A is better than L226WT. Based on all the happy users of various C and A panels and low input lag ratings for S/A panels on DigitalVersus I decided to recommend the 226BW. In addition to its great price. The C panel on DigitalVersus looks a tad slower than the S/A panels but I figure the difference can not be that big in real use. The L226WTQ doesn't look any faster than the 226BW C panel. LG's FCC documents say some L226 models have a CMO panel (and some, a LPL panel). Based on the striking similarities between the response time of the Q and 226BW C it seems obvious the Q uses a CMO panel to me. LPL panels are very often quite faster. Either way I could never find for sure if the L226WTQ uses an LPL or CMO panel, but the DigitalVersus images are all the proof you really need, assuming they are correct.

The images of the Q on DigitalVersus are nothing to brag about, yet tons are happy with its performance. Ditto with the 226BW C. And since you still have an OK chance of getting S/A panels it's the lesser of the evils. Choosing an LCD is a matter of dodging trade-offs but you usually have the option to return if you buy locally. I would recommend getting the Samsung or LG panels 22" locally, personally. Or take a look at the 226BW at your local store and order it from Newegg (or good Canadian store) for cheaper if you like it.

Another reason I recommended the 226BW over the L226WT/Q is gamma setup. I wasn't all that happy with the L226WT's gamma performance and the 226BW is said to be better in this aspect. Many of my reasons are simply conjectures/hunches that I hope are true but can't confirm, unfortunately. The input lag thing seems big enough to be one reason though.

Color profiles are available for all variants of the 226BW (not sure about CPT but CPT is rare and maybe not so bad).

On DigitalVersus it also lists that the WTQ has a greater delay than the WT, is this something to be considered? Also are there any opinions on the Samsung 226CW?

Don't get the 226CW for gaming, IMO. The DigitalVersus images of the 226CW should tell you this. I bet Samsung will release some higher quality 22" wide gamut LCDs in the future. And LG is coming out with the L227WT but I haven't seen reviews on it.

The WT is alright for speed, just not that great. (Based on personal comparison vs. the NEC 20WMGX2 in UT2004.)

I don't think you can go wrong with the 226BW.

And, I trust DigitalVersus images quite highly. Their input lag ratings have been very close to what I found on my own with my two monitors. Max ratings can be misleading at times since they rarely occur, but the min ratings of the L226WTQ make it clear to me that this monitor has lag.