[Retired] The LCD Thread

[nwrigley]

Just to throw it out there:

According to the serial number, my Dell 2007FP is an S-IPS panel and I know that it is sought after. It is a beautiful screen with a great stand and my only complaint about it is the low pixel pitch. If there is anyone who prefers a low pixel pitch, I would consider selling it towards the purchase of a different monitor. You would have to pay upfront with a credit card or check.

I'm probably going to be returning it shortly and offer this more as a favor if it would help anyone out.

 

[j0j081]

Are you returning it because the text size is too small as you stated a few posts back? I have a Samsung 206bw and found that to but now run a custom font DPI of 104 which makes it about equal to the font size on a 19 or 22 inch ws. In Vista the scaling is great I can't even tell it's a custom DPI and my friends have complimented me on how easy it is on the eyes.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: s44
For direct multimedia use, are there <24" monitors besides the old Gateway 22" that handle 16:9 -> 16:10 scaling (that is, letterboxing)? Does the new Gateway 22" still do this? The NEC 20"?

Anything less pricey than these?

The Samsung 215TW does what you want, I believe. Can your graphics card not do this (some ATIs?)

The Samsung looks interesting (component inputs and all), but from looking into it it, like most monitors (including HPs) simply inflates 16:9 signals to its native 16:10. Does your NEC do this?

My card can do scaling, but obviously not when my HD cable box is plugged directly into the monitor. (Only way to get encrypted HD channels...)

Looks like I have to get either the new or the old Gateway. This actually shows 16:9 at 16:9, with built-in letterboxing. (Or I could spend a lot more to get a 19*12 screen with 1:1...)

 

[amylake]

Originally posted by: amylake

Originally posted by: nwrigley

There is an excellent explanation of pixel pitch at the beginning of this article (dot pitch is the equivalent for a CRT monitor). Any monitor of the same size with the same native resolution will have the same pixel pitch. Pixels are fixed in size, which is why LCDs only look their best in their native resolution. So, yes, I would recommend that you view a monitor in store of the same size and resolution of the one you are considering.

Here is a useful list of common pixel pitches: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pixel_pitch

The difference between 0.255mm and 0.270mm may not sounds like a lot, but it is a big difference to my eyes.

Both of those resources are helpful. I will go check out the Dell tommorrow. In the meantime I'm wondering if comparing two different screen sizes with similar pixel pitch is apples to apples or apples to oranges.

My Thinkpad is a 15.4 widescreen with a 1280 x 800 resolution. The pixel pitch according to the Wikipedia article is 0.259 with 98 pixels per inch.

The NEC has a pixel pitch of 0.258 and 98.4 pixels per inch.
The Samsung has a pixel pitch of 0.269 and 94.4 pixels per inch.

So, I'm wondering, can I asssume the NEC will look similar to the Thinkpad since they have almost the same numbers?

I saw the Dell 2007WFP today and the text size is fairly similar to my laptop and it's comfortable to read. A little bigger might be nice but this was fine.

So there is still a decision to be made, the NEC 20WMGX2 or the Samsung 215tw. The Dell looked very nice, in comparison to what I now have, too. I wish someone could just tell me what to do!!

The Samsung is also available at Tigerdirect (have read not good things about them) and PC Connection (haven't heard much about them) for a bit less. I wonder if they're clearing them out because the rebate has a limit of 30.

Is there a concise discussion here about dead pixel policies? I "chatted" with a Newegg CR and he said it's 8 dead pixels. I guess this is my main concern not buying it from a bricks and mortar store. With Samsung and/or NEC will the manufacturer exchange in case the store won't? It sounds like Dell is pretty easy to deal with for exchanges. I've ordered a couple of monitors and computers online and have never had a problem with pixels but I thought it was worth checking.

 

[zod96]

Any news on when the Nec 90gx2 pro's are due out here in the usa? I want to replace my nec 20wmgx2 with a small 19 inch so my computer doesn't have to work so much. What other 19 inch lcd's out their have the glossy coating and are good gaming monitors?


Thanks

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: MDDI
Thanks xtknight, I'm not sure about the fix, some claim it worked, others claim not. I'm not going to wait any longer to make my 24" purchase. Sounds like the manufactures trend for the next generation 24" monitors will mostly be TN.

I've decided to buy the BenQ FP241W from NCIX. They seem to move more stock than most so the production date of their inventory appears to be June or later. The 1:1 image mapping is corrected and possibly the black-out thing was earlier BenQ production, I'll cross my fingers.

I think there will still be some 24" VA displays (particularly some new ones with more motion picture acceleration tech). But, more 24" TNs may be coming and Samsung has been the forerunner (Samsung 245B/245BW).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zod96
Any news on when the Nec 90gx2 pro's are due out here in the usa? I want to replace my nec 20wmgx2 with a small 19 inch so my computer doesn't have to work so much. What other 19 inch lcd's out their have the glossy coating and are good gaming monitors?


Thanks

If I had the answer to any future product releases I would be posting them here.

But, no, sorry I don't know when (or even if) the 90GX2 Pro is due in the USA. An NEC employee or two over at HardForum might be able to tell you.

I don't know of any other glossy 19" LCD I would recommend. Actually, I can't even think of any others that exist. The only thing that makes sense to me would be putting the money towards upgrading your graphics card. I don't see the point of getting rid of the 20WMGX2 for a cheaper monitor unless you were able to receive the full price difference between the 20WMGX2 and the 19".

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: Butterbean

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Just for giggles I made a quick vid of issues using still cameras video function (Canon S3). You can see the backbleed and how sensitive to pressure it is on left. At end you can see stuck pixel. The monitor was at 50% brightness/contrast using Eizo tests blackout function.
The NEC's are great and my first one was perfect in every way. This one is a real stinker for backbleed (equal to any Dell I had) but I consider it just part of the random poo so much a part of trying to score a good monitor.

Vid
http://video.google.com/videop...id=2158141964693972540

I'm not pushing as hard as it looks in vid.

NEC sent me a second new monitor. The new one also had intense areas of backbleeding but it stabilised over a couple days(the first one didn't). I don't have any "stuck pixels" this time either but I do have some sort of mark in lower right corner. I'm guessing its a patch of dead pixels. I don't mine dead pixels scattered around but this mark shows up a enough so that its obstrusive if not critical to anything. Is this mark a dead pixel patch? Any idead how many it takes to make a mark that size?

here is pic of lower right corner:
http://img159.imageshack.us/my...image=img2291ersv6.jpg

I got my 3rd monitor from NEC. It has no stuck pixels or weird artifacts but it does have the infamous "image persistence" issue. Using monitor for just a couple minutes at 22% brightness will leave an image. I could use my first NEC on all day and get nothing. I notice that the NEC with issues gets hotter on top (on the panel itself) than my good one. I've heard of this problem going away after a week or so so I'll wait a few days to see what's what. NEC has been pretty good but three monitors with "issues" in a month makes me wonder if its not just a rubbish lot they have left over. Here is pic of image ghost:


http://img524.imageshack.us/im...078/mwsnap0014elq9.jpg

I got my fourth replacement NEC 20WMGX2 this week. This last one finally has no issues - no weird backlight, ferocious stuck pixels, screen defects or image persistance (I don't even check for dead pixels). The interesting thing is NEC sent me a silver model instead of the black I originally bought. Looks wise, I actually like the silver one better - now seeing each model next to each other. When making the exchange I did say to the NEC rep that I wouldn't care if I got a silver version if they were out of the black - or if it would get me away from the problems all the black ones I received had. I know the NEC is a good monitor (having had one already almost a year) and all of the 6 people I spoke to at NEC said they hardly get any returns of the 20WMGX2. They did agree with my issues though and never gave me a hard time. They never had me speak to a tech rep until return number 3. He said since I had a different problem each time he didn't think it was me causing any problem and he agreed the image persistance and blotches across the top sounded defective. NEC sent me a new monitor 3 times and paid shipping each way Federal Express. I think perhaps something was wrong with one of the last batches of the black NEC's because each one I had was a mess with multiple issues. The black ones seem to be gone anyway.

Most of the time I called NEC and spoke with one person - the only exception being the final time when I had brief chat with rep. I wasn't switched aroud in endles loops like my Dell (25 calls over 2 months after that panel lottery fiasco). Each time I spoke with someone I heard chit chat in the back like I was speaking to someone in a small office that wan't that busy. When they said they sent me shipping labels I could see them before I even got off the phone. So after 4 monitors NEC's service was excellent I would say.

I don't know if it has anything to do with anything but I ordered a black 20WMGX2 from Newegg and ended up with a silver. Nevertheless I kept it, I think the silver makes things easier on the eyes. But mine only developed image persistence 8 months or so into use.

 

[zod96]

Yeah I was thinking of it down sizing mainly because of the game crysis. I tried the demo and it pretty much brought my system to its knees and I have a pretty powerful system. If I lowered the resolution it played fine but looked like crap out of native res. I saw the samsung 932GW 19 inch widescreen for $240 with 2 ms response time that looked really nice and it had the glossy screen...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zod96
Yeah I was thinking of it down sizing mainly because of the game crysis. I tried the demo and it pretty much brought my system to its knees and I have a pretty powerful system. If I lowered the resolution it played fine but looked like crap out of native res. I saw the samsung 932GW 19 inch widescreen for $240 with 2 ms response time that looked really nice and it had the glossy screen...

Here's a review of the 932GW, quite favorable really except for some minor RTC issues (I believe X-Bit is exaggerating how much you notice these in real use).

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...splay/19inch-8_27.html

 

[nwrigley]

Originally posted by: zod96
Yeah I was thinking of it down sizing mainly because of the game crysis. I tried the demo and it pretty much brought my system to its knees and I have a pretty powerful system. If I lowered the resolution it played fine but looked like crap out of native res. I saw the samsung 932GW 19 inch widescreen for $240 with 2 ms response time that looked really nice and it had the glossy screen...

Heh, you are describing the exact reason why I don't ever see myself going larger than a 22" widescreen. I don't want to pay to run higher than 1680x1050 and I would seriously have to buy a new desk that was deep enough for me to sit at a comfortable distance from a larger panel. I have enough screen space to edit two photos side by side in Photoshop on my 215TW and I can't think of a reason that I would need more space for anything that I use my computer for.

I wouldn't downgrade your nec 20wmgx2 just for one game! Do you really have to play it on high settings? Besides, the final game isn't even out yet, performance could change dramatically after tweaks to the game and your graphics driver.

Also, why not configure your graphics card to use centered timings for image scaling? Run the game at 1280×1024 and it won't stretch the image, just put black bars around it. You've essentially done the same thing as downgrading to a 19" monitor. I do this all the time on my widescreen monitor with games that don't support a widescreen mode.

 

[nwrigley]

Originally posted by: amylake
Edit 2: I'm now leaning towards the Samsung. One other question. I only have an analog connection from my laptop, a thinkpad T60. Will this affect image quality for image editing, web design or text?

Using a VGA (analog) connection instead of a DVI (digital) connection will affect image quality. How much it affects it depends on the graphics card, the monitor, and also how sensitive you are to the changes. In my experience there is a HUGE difference and I would not even consider running a LCD off of an analog connection.

I was fixing a friend's computer and had it hooked up to my 215tw via the VGA input, while my computer was hooked up to the DVI input. This way I could switch back and forth between the two computers. This resulted in me seeing the difference between the two connections and it was HUGE. I actually thought that her graphics card had an issue, until I hooked the monitor to her DVI connection. The difference was enough that I gave up on switching between the two computers - the VGA text was simply too blurry for me, colors were washed out - it really made it look like a completely different monitor.

 

[s44]

Originally posted by: xtknight

I don't know of any other glossy 19" LCD I would recommend. Actually, I can't even think of any others that exist.

Haven't tried it, but the HP W1907 qualifies.

 

[amylake]

Originally posted by: nwrigley

Originally posted by: amylake
Edit 2: I'm now leaning towards the Samsung. One other question. I only have an analog connection from my laptop, a thinkpad T60. Will this affect image quality for image editing, web design or text?

Using a VGA (analog) connection instead of a DVI (digital) connection will affect image quality. How much it affects it depends on the graphics card, the monitor, and also how sensitive you are to the changes. In my experience there is a HUGE difference and I would not even consider running a LCD off of an analog connection.

I was fixing a friend's computer and had it hooked up to my 215tw via the VGA input, while my computer was hooked up to the DVI input. This way I could switch back and forth between the two computers. This resulted in me seeing the difference between the two connections and it was HUGE. I actually thought that her graphics card had an issue, until I hooked the monitor to her DVI connection. The difference was enough that I gave up on switching between the two computers - the VGA text was simply too blurry for me, colors were washed out - it really made it look like a completely different monitor.

I checked out some options and Lenovo has a couple of docks for the laptop I've got. The mini dock has one vga and one dvi connector. The advanced dock has each plus a slot for a second video card in case someone wants two dvi monitors. So if the vga doesn't look great, I'll try one of the docks. It would be nice to have the dock in any case.

I'm still on the fence about the NEC or the Samsung. If I don't decide today, and end up choosing the NEC, I may just wait and see if NEC puts out another rebate (the current one expires today).

 

[zod96]

I think I'll stick with my 20wmgx2 it was really for only one game, crysis all the other games including the new COD4 run fine.

 

[Eagle784]

If anyone else has been awaiting lenovo's l220x, they have some new info on it on their website: it's going to be available November 16, and the list price is now $499.

http://www-01.ibm.com/common/ssi/cg...A&htmlfid=897/ENUS107-646&appname=USN#@2h@62@

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nwrigley
Sorry that I wasn't clear on this. The Dell system I bought came with the E198FP as a base option - there isn't a "no monitor" option. The only option is to spend more for a better monitor. The E207WFP is $20 more, 1907FPV is $40 more, 1908FP is $80 more, E228WFP is $90 more, and the 2007fp is $150 more. The Samsung 226bw isn't listed as an option, but I may be able to call and work something out.

If I stuck with the E198FP as essentially a bonus, I would be looking to buy a monitor for less than $300. Of course, the quality of the monitor would need to justify purchasing it instead of spending less to upgrade E198FP.

I see what you mean. Well, if you can't work it out to get a 226BW the E228WFP isn't a horrible choice. It's just not very preferable at all IMO.

X-Bit review: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../display/22inch_4.html

The poor color temp and really slow response time make me a little iffy. I'm certainly not "recommending" it.

I'm leaning towards the 226bw at the moment. I wouldn't mind having a larger pixel pitch than I do at home on my 215tw. FYI - Buy.com has a $40 rebate on the 226bw that they just put up ($270 AR). If I bought the 226bw from Buy.com, it would allow me to give the E198FP to my assistant, which would be an upgrade for her 17" Dell VGA only LCD. The "17 inch LCD could then be passed on to replace this ancient 15" LCD on the system that sees occasional use for processing shipping and came from God knows where. As you can see - this route gives me some further justification for spending $120 more than I did on the 2007FP that I am currently using.

I'm almost tempted to spend the $90 more on the E228WFP and if I don't like it, either return it or give THAT one to my assistant. The problem with passing it to my assistant is that there are employees higher on the food chain who don't know the first thing about monitors. They would just see that she has a 22" ws and think that they were being left out. For that reason, it is probably better politics to stick with a 19" for her. I don't know much about the E198FP or 1907FPV, is it worth $40 extra to get the 1907FPV?

For office work? Hmm well the 1907FPV is certainly more high-end in terms of contrast and viewing angles, so I guess. It would be really hard for me to pass up but I can't tell you if it would be worth it or not. I'd be wary of buying any Dell E series. It's like getting a Kia...it'll work (maybe)...but that's about it.

I know that the 215tw is a good buy at $350 AR and I am certainly tempted, but the $100 rebate is too much to rely on. Rebates are never a guarantee and even when you do get them, they can take several months.

Plus, does it apply to businesses? I don't know how all that stuff works. Probably not a good idea, I agree.

It's a risk that I would take myself, but not one I feel I can take with my company's money. Plus, they're still going to see that $450 charge on the credit card. Ironically, if I were to divide them up, the 226bw is probably a better fit for me at home, since I do play games, where as my 215tw is a better fit for work. Not that I'm looking to give up my 215TW

Um, 215TW for home and 226BW for Work IMO.

Thanks again to xtknight for being the person to come to with your monitor questions. I still owe it to the advice on this board that I was able to buy my 215tw over a year ago for about $275 (one of the best deals on electronic equipment I've ever gotten).

Glad I can answer your questions. I hope you end up with a 226BW or a L226WT*.

This might sound silly and only something "enthusiasts" do, but you could buy a color calibrator with your own cash and calibrate your 215TW and E228WFP at Work if that's what you end up with. The calibration would really help the color situation on the E228 and response time probably isn't that important at Work. Calibrators are suitable for everyone and for text work. Nobody wants to be looking at something that looks like an old CRT. I don't know if that's the case with the E228, may not even be that bad but it's still an option. I know that I would be irked by it, on the other hand I'm irked by everything. Can't be worse than the Dell E's that you already have. On the other hand, reducing eye strain is important when you are on the monitor 8hrs/day. Use the justification it will "increase productivity".

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: amylake
I saw the Dell 2007WFP today and the text size is fairly similar to my laptop and it's comfortable to read. A little bigger might be nice but this was fine.

So there is still a decision to be made, the NEC 20WMGX2 or the Samsung 215tw. The Dell looked very nice, in comparison to what I now have, too. I wish someone could just tell me what to do!!

The NEC 20WMGX2 is basically a 2007WFP (S-IPS) with a glossy screen. Get that if you know you'll like it.

Is there a concise discussion here about dead pixel policies? I "chatted" with a Newegg CR and he said it's 8 dead pixels. I guess this is my main concern not buying it from a bricks and mortar store. With Samsung and/or NEC will the manufacturer exchange in case the store won't? It sounds like Dell is pretty easy to deal with for exchanges. I've ordered a couple of monitors and computers online and have never had a problem with pixels but I thought it was worth checking.

Newegg themselves says a monitor must have eight dead pixels for them to deal with it (merchant policy).

Manufacturers themselves have different policies. NEC first and Samsung second, are among the kindest when it comes to exchanging monitors w/ small issues, from my reading. They make a lot of "exceptions". Many manufacturers prefer you do repairs with them directly (there is even a note about this in the 20WMGX2's box).

Look here for details about manufacturer dead pixel policies:

http://www.behardware.com/arti...-dead-pixels-2007.html

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: s44
For direct multimedia use, are there <24" monitors besides the old Gateway 22" that handle 16:9 -> 16:10 scaling (that is, letterboxing)? Does the new Gateway 22" still do this? The NEC 20"?

Anything less pricey than these?

The Samsung 215TW does what you want, I believe. Can your graphics card not do this (some ATIs?)

The Samsung looks interesting (component inputs and all), but from looking into it it, like most monitors (including HPs) simply inflates 16:9 signals to its native 16:10. Does your NEC do this?

Yes, the NEC just scales it to the native res, it has no scaling options. But actually my cable box lets me have some control over the aspect ratio. I can't remember if I ever got it to letterbox or not but I'm not in a position to test it at the moment.

My card can do scaling, but obviously not when my HD cable box is plugged directly into the monitor. (Only way to get encrypted HD channels...)

Looks like I have to get either the new or the old Gateway. This actually shows 16:9 at 16:9, with built-in letterboxing. (Or I could spend a lot more to get a 19*12 screen with 1:1...)

I would consider a 24" if I were you, for multimedia purposes. I think the NEC is a little small for TV watching.

I think the NEC has good scaling control over component/composite/S-Video/NTSC but not so much over VGA/DVI. How are you hooking this cable box up?

Originally posted by: Darknite39
Darn.

I came home today to see my ~2 month old 24" Soyo with a solid black line running across it. I assume this to be a row of dead pixels or something. I have never dealt with Soyo customer service before; do you think I should try Office Max, the store from which my LCD was purchased, first? Alternatively, does anyone know how I might go about fixing this?

Sigh.

Give OfficeMax a try first, I bet they are easier to deal with. If they don't want to do anything then ask Soyo. That's the last time I'm telling anyone to give this monitor a try, though. Too many problems apparently and horrible QA at $300 (shoulda figured...)

Originally posted by: s44

Originally posted by: xtknight

I don't know of any other glossy 19" LCD I would recommend. Actually, I can't even think of any others that exist.

Haven't tried it, but the HP W1907 qualifies.

Good point (w1907s at least). Haven't seen any reviews on it yet though. The glossy LCD market is virtually evaporating. The Samsung 2232GW is supposed to be glossy, actually.

 

[cbracer]

1) Would I be correct in assuming that all 2407WFP-HC monitors have this ghosting problem, or is it a luck of the draw?

2) The Dell rep appears to be saying that this problem will never be fixed and there will never be another revision to this monitor, is this correct?

Guess I'm going to get the Soyo 24" then in a year when more LED backlit monitors like the dell come out get one of those. The Samsung 245T was suppose to be LED but isn't That appears to be the best alternative to the Dell.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cbracer
1) Would I be correct in assuming that all 2407WFP-HC monitors have this ghosting problem, or is it a luck of the draw?

It's my understanding that this is a response time control problem, meaning all units would have the issue.

2) The Dell rep appears to be saying that this problem will never be fixed and there will never be another revision to this monitor, is this correct?

Clearly I can not give you an answer better than a Dell rep but given Dell's history I would have expected them to release a revision sooner or later. They are probably just covering themselves right now in case of legal problems but I believe later in the game they will consider it, directly or indirectly.

Guess I'm going to get the Soyo 24" then in a year when more LED backlit monitors like the dell come out get one of those. The Samsung 245T was suppose to be LED but isn't That appears to be the best alternative to the Dell.

I haven't seen any LED backlit 24" monitors. The Samsung 245T and Dell 2407WFP-HC use wide gamut CCFLs. I recommend giving the 2407WFP-HC a shot if you feel you want a wide gamut display. Else, try the BenQ FP241W (standard gamut). The Soyo 24" has been plagued with problems (blackouts, color problems, lines).

 

[Butterbean]

Are they taking the NEC 90GX2 off the market? I thought people really liked that monititor - aside from it being under $250.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Butterbean
Are they taking the NEC 90GX2 off the market? I thought people really liked that monititor - aside from it being under $250.

Yes. Manufacturers do many stupid things.

But, anyways, I believe the 20WMGX2 will also be discontinued soon due to the Pro model much like the 70GX2 and the 90GX2. The rebate ends today, so after that, it's anyone's guess as to what will happen. I have already heard an NEC rep say the 20WMGX2 was discontinued.

 

[zod96]

I know the Pro models are out in asia and in europe its just here in the states that it hasn't landed yet if ever :-(

 

[jabronie185]

I am looking for a monitor for hardcore gaming. I have been looking into a SAMSUNG 226BW Black 22" 2 ms (GTG) DVI Widescreen LCD Monitor 300 cd/m2 700:1(DC 3000:1). Does anyone have any experience with this monitor or any suggestions to what monitors met your gaming needs?

 

[dingetje]

hey guys check this article out http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html
too bad they don't have lenovo l220x to play with yet....would really like to hear about its gaming abilities