[Retired] The LCD Thread

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redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
278
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0
ohh you have the NEC. Does it have backlight bleeding? If so how bad?

Are the black levels going to be close to my Samsung 971P??? (i know its not going to be as good, thats almost impossible! )
 

Mallomar

Member
Oct 12, 2007
55
1
66
Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Mallomar
I was waiting for Newegg to get the 26" NEC (with SV) in stock, but after waiting several weeks, it's now shown as a "deactivated item." I assume this means they will not be getting it in stock in the forseeable future.

What are other good vendors? I'm having a tough time finding anyone who even carries the NECs. Is Provantage a good vendor? I assume that if there's any problem with the monitor I'd have to contact NEC, no matter where I buy it, right?

Yup you'd be dealing with NEC for monitor problems. NEC in particular is picky about that (they even stuck a note in my 20WMGX2 stating it).

The only thing I can suggest is looking at the authorized resellers list for the SV model:

LCD2690WUXi-BK-SV

I mean, I could be wrong, but I don't think anyone would be on that list unless they were half-way reputable. Other than that you just have to look at ResellerRatings.

It certainly is difficult to find. It makes me think that perhaps dealing with NEC directly is an option, as silly as it sounds. This was an LCD I was looking at buying myself. I've only ever bought LCDs from Newegg.

Turns out that Provantage doesn't have it in stock (either I misread their page a couple of days ago or it was in stock then and isn't now). The other resellers are vague -- "generally in stock," or "call for availability," or "special order," etc. Buy.com has had it listed as "temporarily out of stock" for at least a month. My concern is that if I order from one of these places, sometimes it's hard to get a delivery date, or to contact anyone to get an update.

I guess I'll request a quote from NEC. There's also one local company that carries NEC, but they apparently are an audio/visual specialist who probably deals mostly with large businesses and organizations. Not sure if they'd want to bother selling one monitor to me, or how expensive it would be.

 

Burpy

Member
Oct 16, 2005
158
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Possible LCD Black Friday Deals
at least that I think are half-way worth it...

Circuit City

* Samsung 24" 245BW for $329.99. (great deal)
Acer 22" X223WBD for $169.99.
Sharp 42" (TV) LC-42D43U for $799.99.

Best Buy

Samsung 22" (multimedia) 2220WM for $199.99.
LG 22" (TV) 22LC2D for $349.99.
Envision 22" H22W for $149.99.

CompUSA

* Acer 22" AL2216WBD for $169.99. (great deal)
Acer 24" AL2416WBSD for $249.99. (tons of reports of dead units so I don't know about this one)
Envision 22" G22LWK for $149.99.

Kmart/Kmart.com (Thanksgiving Day)
Olevia 32" (TV) for $419.99.

Target
* Westinghouse 22" LCM-22w3 for $167. (great deal)

Available Now

* Westinghouse 22" LCM-22w3 for $167. (great deal)

Will post more info soon..maybe..

I was really interested in the SAMSUNG 24" @ Circuit City, but noticed in the black Friday ad that it's $450 in store and you have to mail-in a rebate for the rest. That kinda killed my motivation to battle the elements and lines.

I might have a go at the Soyo 24" at OfficeMax and hope I can get one.
 

pepsimax2k

Member
Jan 23, 2004
53
0
0
I checked most major UK sites last night and just about anything that was near the L194WT's price either had no DVI support or was a lot more under specd.
About the only thing close is the Acer P193W which is a little more and may or may not have DVI (not the best on giving out specs are acer) so it may be an easy choice. Waht do you think?
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/771556

Oh and the VAT stuff, yeah we all gotta pay it. Cept businesses or resellers. Shops just put the ex. price up cos they can, makes things look cheaper, the ole .99 trick. And always a bummer when you realise your really cheap monitor was only the ex vat price
 

acegazda

Platinum Member
May 14, 2006
2,689
1
0
is the samsung 220wm @bb any good? There isn't a lot of info in it online. I don't think it's part of the latest generation of samsung monitors though.
 
Jun 29, 2005
38
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Any thoughts on the HP w2207??? It seemed very well received at prad.de . . . I'm in the market for a 22" widescreen used mainly for gaming and I'm looking at the differences between the good ol' Samsung 226BW, the HP w2207, and the ViewSonic VX2255wmb (which is sort of on the bottom of my list).

I guess with a price difference between the 226BW and the HP w2207 ($269 after rebate vs. $359, respectively) I'm wondering if anyone can justify the $90 difference.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: acegazda
is the samsung 220wm @bb any good? There isn't a lot of info in it online. I don't think it's part of the latest generation of samsung monitors though.

[repost of pm]
I can say it has a TN panel. Samsung's latest TN panels have had good contrast, so I wouldn't be surprised if the colors were indeed quite vivid. Most of Samsung's TN panels have great response time, too.

To be exact, it would be the Samsung 2220WM unless Bestbuy has some special model.
[/repost of pm]

I am aware that there was a typo in the ad.

I wouldn't expect amazing response time since it lacks overdrive, but its contrast should be good. I wonder if it uses a CMO or Samsung panel...

The 2220WM is one of Samsung's newest monitors. It has not been out for very long, but it probably uses a modern, if cheap, panel.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: redlinez33
ohh you have the NEC. Does it have backlight bleeding? If so how bad?

Are the black levels going to be close to my Samsung 971P??? (i know its not going to be as good, thats almost impossible! )

Virtually no backlight bleeding on the NEC. It is the most uniform panel I've seen.

For the first week however you may have different luck because this LCD is assembled tight (taut?). But it loosens up shortly.

Black levels will probably appear as good as an S-PVA display because of the glossy coating, assuming you have some evenly-distributed, calm ambient lighting. The black on my NEC appears as dark as the P-MVA display I have next to it, and both are configured optimally. I do know the P-MVA technically has a lower black level.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: pepsimax2k
I checked most major UK sites last night and just about anything that was near the L194WT's price either had no DVI support or was a lot more under specd.
About the only thing close is the Acer P193W which is a little more and may or may not have DVI (not the best on giving out specs are acer) so it may be an easy choice. Waht do you think?
http://www.pcworld.co.uk/martprd/product/seo/771556

Oh and the VAT stuff, yeah we all gotta pay it. Cept businesses or resellers. Shops just put the ex. price up cos they can, makes things look cheaper, the ole .99 trick. And always a bummer when you realise your really cheap monitor was only the ex vat price

Sorry, I've never even heard of that LCD before, much less seen a review on it. It sounds like some really obscure model. I would stick with the LG L194WT if I were you.

The market is quite different over there actually. Usually the approach I take is to simply avoid models I don't know much about. There's rarely a shining star from a rather low-class manufacturer.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: redlinez33
Ohh wonder if the soyo at office max is good quality or is it just a good price....

Mainly a good price, but it is an 8-bit VA display actually. Unfortunately a lot of people have had blackout and odd dead pixel problems with it, if I recall.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: eatbuckshot
Hi, I am wondering if any of the "hardcore gamer" lcd monitors support changing their refresh rate to 100hz?
I firmly believe that there IS such thing as refresh rate please don't post "There is no such thing" or similar
for more info refer to this ongoing thread i made about this issue here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13269

I really can't tell you the answer. I don't design or oversee development of liquid crystal display interfaces. Generally it's believed that the crystals themselves are driven at 60 Hz(+/- 4 Hz). The DSP, signal processor, leading to the panel will convert a signal higher than 60 Hz to 60 Hz by skipping frames. Sometimes it does this well, sometimes poorly, and sometimes not at all.

My ViewSonic VP930b seems to do it great. 75 Hz works like a charm and it looks smooth as butter. It doesn't even look like there's any frame skipping. So, ultimately I don't know.

The Samsung 970P lacks an overdrive lookup table at 75 Hz so it exhibits more ghosting but it also works.

I can tell you that I have never heard of an LCD going over 75 Hz on the input signal. Maybe 85 if I wasn't hallucinating but fat chance w/ 100+... on current monitors.

The motion of most LCDs should feel fairly smooth to begin with to their nature, and there should be no flickering at a rate of 60 Hz. Other flickering can come from the backlight (150-600 Hz) but probably not at a rate the eye would notice.

How games work isn't real clear either, and it probably depends on the game, but I doubt most benefit from running over 60 Hz to begin with. Even less so over network play...
 

graywulf

Junior Member
Nov 22, 2007
4
0
0
Originally posted by: graywulf
I'm looking at the 206BW because according to here:
http://www.digitalversus.com/d...&mo2=175&p2=1752&ph=12
there is no input lag.

I'm curious if anyone has done their own tests with this monitor to verify these results. I would also be interested if someone could recommend a 21"< widescreen which wouldn't throw off my gaming --- I am very sensitive.

just wondering if there is any input B)
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: migreen
Are any of the Black Friday specials high-gamut?

I don't think so. At least none of the monitors are. But I doubt every store has posted [all] their deals yet.

Originally posted by: Hamlet2000
Any thoughts on the HP w2207??? It seemed very well received at prad.de . . . I'm in the market for a 22" widescreen used mainly for gaming and I'm looking at the differences between the good ol' Samsung 226BW, the HP w2207, and the ViewSonic VX2255wmb (which is sort of on the bottom of my list).

I guess with a price difference between the 226BW and the HP w2207 ($269 after rebate vs. $359, respectively) I'm wondering if anyone can justify the $90 difference.

The HP w2207 is glossy, so colors will be more vibrant. I don't know exactly how fast it is since it hasn't been reviewed but I'm sure it'll be fast enough for games (for most people).

The 226BW is a crapshoot and always has been because of the panel lottery. Possible problems include blue tint (CMO panel) or response time issues (maybe AUO/CMO/CPT panels). But there are color profiles to fix the color part and the response time issues aren't terrible, or are solve-able by turning RTA off.

The VX2255wmb should be a consideration if you're considering the 226BW. With the VX at least you get a consistently [decent] panel. I just don't care for the bezel design of the VX that much, myself. A little gaudy... But what I like subjectively is not criteria for the list on the OP.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: graywulf
I'm looking at the 206BW because according to here:
http://www.digitalversus.com/d...&mo2=175&p2=1752&ph=12
there is no input lag.

I'm curious if anyone has done their own tests with this monitor to verify these results. I would also be interested if someone could recommend a 21"< widescreen which wouldn't throw off my gaming --- I am very sensitive.

I can't verify them myself, but Samsung's 226BW shows similarly low results (~10 ms).

But the 206BW is probably what I would be recommending for someone who wants low input lag. I can't confirm those results but it certainly looks promising.

Then again you can get all types of different panels in the BW series...

Unless you've tried an LCD that has had 16 ms of input lag, and one that has had 32 and have noticed a difference I don't think you can say input lag is what's throwing you off, though. Because, it could be response time just as well. Samsung 206BW, LG L204WT, L206WT, HP w2007 are what I'd be looking at if I were you.
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
It looks like my CRT is getting ready to die on me. I do a lot of gaming, but I do also edit video so image/color quality is almost as important as speed.

I have long avoided LCDs for a couple reasons.
The biggest being the response time.
Not because of ghosting, but because refresh rates of 60-75hz make my eyes hurt.
I read in the earlier posts that there are possibly 85hz panel... can anyone recommend one?


Also I haven't been keeping up with things lately. Last I did research there was much talk of LED backlighting (which was suppose to produce a more uniform panel (another issue I have with LCD displays)). Are they finally starting to make their way into the market?
 

Trean

Member
Nov 18, 2007
77
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: Trean
a bunch of stuff about purchasing 24" monitors

I doubt S-IPS vs S-PVA will matter for you. I highly doubt spending $1200 on the cheapest 24" S-IPS available right now (LCD2490WUXi) is worth it to you.

I recommend the HP LP2465 for you, personally. I think it'd be better than the TN for sitting back or viewing it at wider angles. The FHD2400 is wide gamut and glossy which is quite attractive, actually. It's real hard to know but both of them are good contenders for you. I just think the HP's wider angles and potentially lower black level would suit you better.

Okay thanks for all the help xtknight. I have a quick inquiry too. I noticed you stated the HP will most likely be the better monitor for me, so I think I will do some in person research to test out the viewing angles and stuff on the gateway. Unfortunately the gateway does not seem to be on display anywhere according to a previously linked thread, even though they have it in stock. This may change by the time I get my butt to the store; but I was wondering if all TN panels had the same response to viewing angle changes as well as other panels. I mean if I go to the store and I look at another TN panel monitor from viewing distance X and angle Y will its image distort in a similar way to the new gateway that has hit the market? (this question goes for the HP or even just other panel types in general)

Again thanks for all the help.

 

graywulf

Junior Member
Nov 22, 2007
4
0
0
thanks xt. I think I will get the samsung. the panel lottery should not affect input lag or response time, correct? only colors, contrast etc.?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: DoctorM
It looks like my CRT is getting ready to die on me. I do a lot of gaming, but I do also edit video so image/color quality is almost as important as speed.

I have long avoided LCDs for a couple reasons.
The biggest being the response time.
Not because of ghosting, but because refresh rates of 60-75hz make my eyes hurt.
I read in the earlier posts that there are possibly 85hz panel... can anyone recommend one?

I know that the "refresh rate" is not making your eyes hurt but I don't know what is, so I don't know what to recommend you.

Another user with a sensitive visual system found solace in the HP w2207, at least to a certain extent. It may be because of the glossy coating. I think glossy coatings are a little easier on my eyes as well.

The NEC 20WMGX2 (glossy) sounds like a great candidate for you. It's fast, and it certainly is vibrant, while at the same time accurate and true with color reproduction. This is one of the best monitors to have to reduce eye strain, unless glare is an issue in your environment, which may turn it into one of the worst LCDs. Of course, this LCD can get extremely bright too but it performs very well at lower brightness/contrast settings (e.g., 10%/40%) which is why I recommend it. And DV Modes may make certain objects more vibrant (gamma-wise) at lower brightnesses.

For matte, try the HP LP2065.

The steps you should take to reduce eyestrain are as follows:
  • Make sure your eyes aren't burning from excessive brightness. If your eyes are red after looking at the monitor, you need to take more visual breaks (staring out of the room/outside long distance) or blink more. But even if they're not red they shouldn't be hurting in any way while viewing the screen. And view the monitor from at least a foot back. The farther back you go, the brighter you can have your monitor.
  • Ensure the text is the proper size. The best way to do this is just to buy an LCD that has a big enough dot pitch, because resolution and DPI adjustments aren't real feasible in a lot of cases. But, some apps allow perfect scaling of fonts, like web browsers and word processors ("zoom").
  • Make sure you aren't suffering from SDE. That is, make sure you don't see the screen door effect. If you do, all you can do is sit back farther or try another LCD.
  • Adjust screen for max contrast/low brightness, and proper color temp. This is probably what you'll try to achieve just instinctively by messing around with your settings. Make sure white appears white...
  • Hook up the LCD thru DVI and use native res@60 Hz. This eliminates the possibility of blurriness and signal degradation through VGA. Faulty DVI connections are more obvious and warrant immediate replacement anyway, but a blurry VGA connection can be a silent killer for your eyes. Using native res is extremely important.
  • Get a silver bezel monitor (TCO '03 certified) and get proper ambient lighting. The less ambient lighting you have, the more strain your eyes will be under when looking at the screen. Medium/bright, even ambient lighting is usually the safest for your eyes when looking at the monitor. Even black bezel LCDs will put more strain on your eyes, but this is probably only in extreme cases. But then again, you may as well not give your eyes excuses to hurt.
  • Adjust sharpness properly. This is actually crucial. It's usually set well by default. Some monitors have sharpness adjustment over DVI via a DSP.
  • Set OS font smoothing. If ClearType is easier on your eyes, use it. And adjust its gamma correction thru the ClearType Tuner power toy. If it hurts your eyes (same here), then turn it off.
And of course, calibrating your LCD will make it more comfortable during general use (maybe significantly more so depending how well your LCD is factory-tuned.) But I don't think buying a colorimeter is worth it for most users. If there's a profile available for your monitor online though you can try applying that.

If all of the above fails then you may consider asking the opinion of an optometrist. Looking at LCDs shouldn't be uncomfortable for most people. Maybe try eye drops? Make sure to pay attention to whether your eyes are getting dry, burning, or exactly what is happening... or if you're getting headache/nausea, it could indicate a problem in the noggin...

I don't think 85 Hz panels exist.

It is possible to set the refresh rate in Windows to 999 Hz and nothing changes (thru NVIDIA control panel, NEC 20WMGX2, Windows XP x64). Refresh rating on LCD reads 60 Hz... There's probably a stub in the driver to ignore refresh rates over what is specified in the EDID (monitor memory).

So that's probably why I read about someone getting 85 to work. But I don't remember where I read it and what model of LCD it was.

Also I haven't been keeping up with things lately. Last I did research there was much talk of LED backlighting (which was suppose to produce a more uniform panel (another issue I have with LCD displays)). Are they finally starting to make their way into the market?

LED backlighting has not come to consumer monitors at all. Options are over $1500 only (Samsung XL20, XL30, NEC Reference Series).

LED backlighting indeed allow better uniformity, and lower black levels due to local dimming tech (there are over a hundred LEDs, you just dim the spots that are supposed to be black). In an RGB configuration, the LEDs will also allow true color temperature adjustment, without the need of an approximating lookup table. So, you will always have maximum gamut (vibrant, consistent colors). I suspect that cheaper/consumer LED monitors will use white LEDs only w/ conventional LUT adjustments for color temperature.

Uniformity is certainly something they've improved even on newer CCFL (conventional backlight) monitors with improved light guides and manufacturing techniques. It may still be a problem on any sort of 2nd-grade monitors though, such as cheaper TNs or VAs. More expensive (>$400) VA and IPS displays should rarely have uniformity issues. And, most of the time, cheaper ones are just fine.
 

BadBrad

Member
Aug 30, 2000
195
0
71
Just picked up the Soyo 24" at OM. Did a quick test with UT 2004 and I really like it. Colors great and no dead or stuck pixels. Paid 292.48 OTD incl tax and 1 year extra warranty. Will update after further testing.
 

MKF

Junior Member
Nov 23, 2007
4
0
0
Ok, Im going to pull the n00b thing and ask.

I shopped around and looked at all the 24" out there that wernt TN And set myself on the Dell 2407 HC I was planning to buy this from Costco since they have a great return deal and it would allow me to avoid Dell's Customer support, for a period of time. Unfortunetly when I was ready to buy they were sold out.
Now Im stuck with Dell's support. But tonight I found the Gateway FPD2485w is a s-pva as well, and quite a bit cheaper. 499$ -50$ and they have a deal on the sound bar free after rebate vs dell's 730$ shipped. (local best buy isnt supporting the low priced gateways)

Question is with all the issues with BOTH units which is the better buy?

2407 HC Dell has the breaking power btn odd white halo ghosting things.
FPD2485w Gateway has the inverted ghosting and spf requred brightness.


I am primarly using this for 3d work and Graphic arts. I do game but nothing to intense. (well nothing where 1ms will make a visual diffrence) The TN 24" Acer I had was horrible in the VP and with visual artifacts I will assume were due to the 6bit nature of the panel. Blurry corners strange morie effects that wiggled etc.

My current setup consists of a aging Samsung 204t (getting dark stripes from backlight aging) And a old crusty dimming 20something SUN crt
The Samsung is ips so I am used to consistant colors and things not changing hue while I breathe.

So in the end Im stuck 2 flawed monitors and a price diffrence of about 220$ (511 vs 730)
Is it pretty much get which ever has a better casing? or add ons like Card readers etc?

Any help and opinions would be appreciated.
MKF-
 
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