[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Wolfstan]

I just ordered an LG L1970HR. $283, with shipping and tax. This monitor better be damn good. >:|

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I'm subscribed to New Egg's newsletters. I just got one and it lists: Chimei 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor, model CMV 221D-NBC for $200.
"2x winner of customer choice award"
Has anyone even HEARD of this brand? How the heck did it win a CC award?

In fact, Chimei i think makes the infamous C panel in the Samsung 226BW panel lottery.

That one in particular though, I've seen it and I must say it really isn't bad at all...Just not as stylish as I'd like...

 

[Skott]

Originally posted by: newschool
I just dont get it. Seriously how can you need a 22'' or 24'' monitor for a computer??? I mean do you have a really bad vision? Or you have a enormous desk and you can't sit less than 2 meters from your screen?? Plus you'll need to change your graphic card every 3 months because of course you cant use a lower resolution than 1920x1600. Good job.

Make me a favor and put your money on a nice TV.

Although a 20" widescreen LCD is plenty big enough real estate wise for gaming and what have you the reason I jumped up to a 22" LCD was that I heard its easier on the eyes when reading text. It was something that was discussed here in this long thread. And it certainly is easier on the eyes. Use a 20" LCD and then use a good 22" LCD that doesnt ghost and you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nullpointerus

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: nullpointerus
Thank you, xtknight!

You have been most helpful.

I am sure that the HP W2207 is the right choice for my needs. It will be the same or better in terms of colors and brightness/contrast than the VX2025wm that I am "borrowing" now, correct? The dot pitch will obviously be an upgrade 20" -> 22" (both at 1680x1050).

(By "DVI/HDMI" I meant either, not both -- sorry to make extra work for you.)

Well, the VX2025WM is a true 8-bit display with wide viewing angles.

The HP w2207 will be a little different. It won't quite have quite the same color accuracy or detail in some cases, but it will still have very vibrant colors due to contrast and the glossy screen. I think you will be happy with it. But yes, viewing angles are a potential concern. Response time should be fine.

Really? I thought the VX2025wm was quite grainy.

Maybe I am confusing the terminology, but, compared to my old Avidav 17" LCD, the pixels look so "grainy" that I kept noticing how bad my desktop wallpaper looked. By "grainy" I mean that each pixel seems to have a subtle, wierd rainbow-colored effect around it that makes areas of any solid color seem "textured" instead of a solid color.

I assumed this was normal for that generation of LCD displays.

Grainy? Maybe you mean something about the anti-glare coating of it? Anti-glare of my VP930b is quite grainy too compared to the LG L226WT I have.

I don't think most manufacturers use this very grainy anti-glare type anymore.

(Note: DVI connection, recommended refresh rate, all DV "enhancement" modes OFF)

Whatever the problem is, I'd like to eliminate it with this upgrade.

A glossy screen will definitely eliminate graininess.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: newschool

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: newschool
What you guys think of the new 19" LG ?

http://www.lge.com/products/mo...etail/l1972h_1_6.jhtml

I think this is the one I am looking for : really fast for FPS gaming, good contrast, good colors and nice design.

Any opinions?

If I had to guess I would say go for it. But, I am never sure for reasons I told havox a couple posts ago (LG releases new 17"/19" models very often). The "5 ms" ones you avoid, but the "2 ms (GTG)" ones are usually fast. GTG or g2g (gray-to-gray response measurement) generally indicates that the LCD uses overdrive (response time acceleration). The only possible harm that RTA could do is overdo it (speed it up so much you get artifacts). This does happen on some models but usually manufacturers learn from their mistakes. The issue can be solved on newer units of a particular model containing new firmware.

Don't worry xtknnight, I have been reading your thread for a long time I only check for 2ms GTG LGs. I know that RTA is used for lower response times, but sometimes you can see artifacts like white trails behind fast moving objects. But I think its getting better everytime, at first I was checking for the benQ FP93GX and when they released the FP93GX+ the percentage of errors was very lower (according to x-bit labs).

One final question, does 16.7m colors with dithering (it is a TN) is really better than 16.2M?
I am comparing the new 19" LG mentionned above and the 1960TR. Oh and what about 3000:1 contrast vs 5000:1? Will I see the differences.

http://www.lge.com/products/mo...tail/l1960tr_1_6.jhtml

16.7M...16.2M.... tomato...tom-ah-toh..

Umm well in the first place there is really no way to tell if they are using good or bad dithering methods. I would go with the unit listed 16.7M as long as it doesn't cost much more. I generally just trust them to use the better dithering in the newer models these days. The 3000:1 vs 5000:1 contrast? This is like asking which figure is less of a lie...but no you won't notice.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Triglet
Hello all, quick question -- I'm looking at picking up one of the LG 22", seems like they're getting a lot of thumbs up and from what I've read there's no panel lottery issues. I primarily game -- FPS(BF Series), RTS, MMORPG, a little of everything. I'm still using my beloved aperture grill CRT, and this will be my first LCD purchase.

Anyhoo, Best Buy has the L226WTQ-BF on sale right now for $280. Newegg has the L226WTY-BF for $350.

Anyone know what the difference is? Thanks!

There is no difference between the Q and Y models to my best knowledge. I heard that different models are used to prevent price matching. (They're always up to something, aren't they?)

Worst case maybe one doesn't have a DVI cable included or something like that but I don't even think this is the case. They certainly use the same panel so get it from wherever you're most comfortable with.

Originally posted by: migreen
So . . I received and am using my Samsung 215TW; primary use photo editing. I am very impressed. It compares very favorably with a TN (Acer) which I had tried previously, and its color and especially gray ramp are very close to the CRT I used for many years (a high-quality Compaq). Also, good creature comforts . . rotation, tilt, and swivel. But mostly the image . . excellent. Anyone focusing on photoediting (no pun intended) should check these out while they are still around. Don't know if the rebate will be back or has been extended.

Thanks to xtnight and others for help on this thread!

Mitch

Great to hear.

Originally posted by: Nnyan
OK so I'm looking at the Gateway FHD2400 and saw the review on extremetech. Looks like these are on sale now for $499. My only concern would be how this rates in gaming and input lag.

It's a TN panel so gaming is its best asset. Input lag generally is very little on TN panels. Even if it's not as low as some TNs it can't be worse than the S-PVA 24"s out there. I think the Samsung 245BW (24" TN) got good input lag ratings.

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/samsung_245b.htm

7.5 ms avg, 10 ms max...can't beat that for a 24". I doubt the FHD2400 is far behind but maybe the Faroudja processor slows things down?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: JASTECH
Hi, this is my first post on LCD's in a long time. I am currently using a SONY G520 and it is going out I think. I say this because it's getting very bright and all colors are washed out. I keep correcting it and then it returns later the same. So I am looking for a nice 24" LCD for Photo editing, Gaming and website building plus the day to day stuff. I have been trying to read what I can on the BenQ FP241WZ, anybody have this monitor that can tell me how it does? TIA, JAS

You may want to look at the HP LP2465 (S-PVA) too. It doesn't have the blackout problems that some are having with the BenQ FP241W series.

Physical panel differences between the HP and BenQ are negligible at best. Actual performance can't be very different. The HP is certainly a good monitor. Check out the comprehensive PRAD review:

http://www.prad.de/en/monitore/review-hp-lp2465.html

When prad rates something "very good" they don't lie. It is true color accuracy on the LP2465 isn't as good as some LCDs though, but I can't think of a better 24" overall. It should be just fine for "semiprofessional" purposes as prad puts it.

Avoid wide-gamut monitors if you do photo editing, unless you know exactly how to calibrate them, or if you're getting an NEC where sRGB emulation is possible. Conventional sRGB monitors are still best for those who edit photos whatsoever.

You could go for the NEC LCD2490WUXi if you were really looking for high quality, but I highly doubt that is worth the steep price hike over the LP2465 for you unless you demand critical quality out of your photo editing:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...on=lcd2490wuxi&x=0&y=0

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cheex
I need some in depth information on this monitor:
DoubleSight DS-245W


Point of note so far:
Panel is made by Samsung!!! ---- It is their S-PVA panel.

This might be a very, very good deal if it all plays out the way I'm thinking it might.

This is all I could find on a similar LCD: http://www.maximumpc.com/article/doublesight_ds_240wb

Here too for the DS-245W: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/fo...YaBB.pl?num=1196208595

I don't have any more info, sorry. It is very likely comparable to the HP LP2465 and BenQ FP241W. Same S-PVA panel in the LP2465 and the P-MVA in the FP241W panel is pretty similar.

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I'm subscribed to New Egg's newsletters. I just got one and it lists: Chimei 22" Widescreen LCD Monitor, model CMV 221D-NBC for $200.
"2x winner of customer choice award"
Has anyone even HEARD of this brand? How the heck did it win a CC award?

Chimei is CMO (Chi Mei Optoelectronics)'s LCD display brand operation (much like Hanns-G/Hannspree is to Hannstar).

226BW (w/ panel lottery) also won 3x, go figure.

Originally posted by: redlinez33
so is the Spyder2 Express calibrator worth getting??? I dont need perfect accuracy, but something that atleast borderlines the IDEA of CLOSE is good for me ...

Does it work with Windows Vista well?

Thanks!

Yes the Spyder2 Express is certainly a good idea for rudimentary to decent calibration purposes. No idea about Vista support but probably. If you need 64-bit Vista drivers ensure that signed (e.g. VeriSign) drivers exist for it. Signing is not the same as WHQL although often coincides with it. The latest 64 Vista w/ updates no longer allows the disable of driver signing without enabling slow DEBUG mode.

-----------
(Unrelated)

And, in fact, when it comes to graphics cards and 30" displays, even the older 7800GT and 7800GTX cards have at least one dual-link DVI port. As long as you don't game you're all set. To be honest the only practical purpose of these displays is for work, not gaming, unless you really feel like dumping $1000 on video cards to play Crysis on it. But there's always Tetris..and.er..Quake2.

You don't have scaling options on most of the 30" models, short of graphics card scaling which may or may not work with the 8800 models of cards/Vista (at least, I heard there were some issues).

 

[redlinez33]

Well i have looked at both the w2207 and the w2007 again at circuit city (spent 20mins messing with them)... The w2007 definitely looks better with default settings. I can tell just with looking at the desktop and a few pics that were on the computer. After adjusting the brightness in nvidia control panel though, they were pretty much even (again just from looking at them at the STORE).

The problem with the w2207 is its much brighter with the factory settings and makes it looked washed out.


I will eventually be picking up the HP w2207 because of its larger size, and better stand.

 

[thecoffeeguy]

xtknight.
Really appreciate all your work in this thread.

After reading through your suggestions and a lot of post, i've boiled it down to either going with a 22" or a 24". Depends on some factors (money, fit on my desk, the wife....etc)

Knowing that, do you have models for each sizes you would recommend to fit my needs?

You mentioned the 24" from Dell, which looks nice.
What about on the 22" side of things?

REally appreciate it again.

Cheers,

TCG

http://www.coffeegeek.com

 

[R0B0]

Anyone know of a 20" monitor that is good for gaming?

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: R0B0
Anyone know of a 20" monitor that is good for gaming?

Samsung 206bw is pretty good.

 

[fiyawerx]

Not sure if anyone else is following the fhd2400's.. but circuit city just dropped their price to 499, and newegg finally added it to their site for the original 550 - nice thing is free shipping and no tax, plus a free dvd player (combo deal). I'm just scared to get an lcd from newegg, seems like I'd have a better time if I had issues with it returning to a b&m store, but maybe I'm just being too paranoid. Dead pixels scare me, not sure about the other stores, but with compusa's 'protection' plan, if you have an accident like dog knocking it off the desk, you can take it back no questions asked for replacement for 2 years. Might see if I can get comp to pricematch cc.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...6824113012&Tpk=fhd2400
So far rated 100% 5 star with 4 reviews.

 

[Nnyan]

@Xtknight

Thanks that makes sense.

@redlinez33
I'm not a graphic artist or do any such work but I'm glad I got my Spyder2 Express (even if I did think it would somehow adjust the brightness/contrast). It does a great job on CRT's and LCD's. Makes life a great deal easier getting these things setup and looking good. I'm using it in Vista X64 and if you do get it don't bother installing the CD (older version will not work with Vista) but download the latest versions from Colorvision's website which do work with Vista.

Guess I'll swing over to CC to get the Gateway and give that a try.

 

[DoctorM]

Know any reviews or what panel type is used fiyawerx?

 

[Le Québécois]

Hi, I just bought the LG L226WTQ and to my surprise, on the box (and the monitor itself) it says "contrast ratio 5000:1" and not the 3000:1 you see in the manual or LG website. I also found a way to know what panel is used and it's a CMO, not the LG.Philips LM220WE1 I saw on many website, including this "LCD Threat".

Is LG beginning to do a "panel lottery" like Samsung with it's 226WB?

Should I return/exchange the monitor?

This is my first LCD monitor and I find the viewing angle quite bad, seeing yellowish colors if I'm not directly in front of the monitor. Because of this the colors aren't equal, if I'm centered in front of the monitor, the sides look yellowish and if I move to one side, it get worts on the other. Is this caused by the CMO panel or is it normal even with the LG.Philips LM220WE1 panel?

 

[siik]

more LCD's to keep and eye out for

BenQ launches X-series LCDs for gamers

BenQ on Wednesday inaugurated the X series, its first complete line of LCD displays made just for gamers and others who demand fast response times. Aside from a checkered flag pattern at the base to reflect its gaming pedigree, the X is the first line to include two different gaming modes: an action mode adjusts the color and response for first-person shooters and most typical games, while a racing mode does the same for the typical camera views found in driving simulations.

The range-topping, 22-inch X2200W is also the first display to focus on a true measure of a display's speed that BenQ calls a Motion Picture Response Time. While most companies often focus on the less realistic gray-to-gray draw time for displays, the X2200W is quick for more dramatic black-to-white shifts in color; an average LCD takes a slow 20 milliseconds to change the pixel while the new display takes just 8, the company claims. The top screen is also more vivid than most competitors with 92 percent of the NTSC color gamut covered in a bright 1,000:1 contrast ratio.

Three smaller, quick displays also follow the 22-inch model into the market, including the 20-inch X2000W, the 19-inch X900W, and the 4:3 ratio X900. The two larger models support HDMI in addition to the DVI and VGA input common across all of the monitors. All models are due to ship this month, though only the X900W is intended to reach the US by the end of this year.

 

[Nnyan]

Interesting find on the BenQ models. Almost makes me want to hold off my purchase to see if this (and other things in the pipeline) are worth the wait.

 

[fiyawerx]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
Know any reviews or what panel type is used fiyawerx?

http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2213483,00.asp

I believe its a TN. I'm mostly a gamer and think it should work out well. Side by side with the other 24's tho, I definately like this gateway better, and especially after playing around with its OSD. Very neat way they did their menus / osd. (CC, BestBuy and CompUSA all have it on the floor)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Le Québécois
Hi, I just bought the LG L226WTQ and to my surprise, on the box (and the monitor itself) it says "contrast ratio 5000:1" and not the 3000:1 you see in the manual or LG website. I also found a way to know what panel is used and it's a CMO, not the LG.Philips LM220WE1 I saw on many website, including this "LCD Threat".

Is LG beginning to do a "panel lottery" like Samsung with it's 226WB?

Should I return/exchange the monitor?

I wouldn't, unless you notice a glaring problem.

How do you figure you have a worse panel in your LG? I'm not sure what panel is in the L226WTQ to be honest although I've never heard of image quality differences.

There was the ghosting problem but that was solved by a firmware update and was probably a chip problem, not a panel one.

I haven't seen any pics to indicate different panels either. The only reliable way to tell is to open up your panel. LG has been known to have incorrect info in the service menu, at times. (In one model, they specified an IPS panel when it was really an MVA.)

I am concerned about this though because I've seen CMO panels specified in the FCC docs for the L226WT series. I always just assumed they were very close or the same (or it was an error in the docs) since no one has ever reported image quality problems. I don't even know if the Q model ever used an LPL panel or not, actually. The vanilla (L226WT) may have always used LPL and the Q always CMO, or vice versa. Either way, the both of them have consistently good subjective reviews except for the Q w/ the ghosting problem, which is solved in the latest stock/firmware. CMO panels themselves are not bad. Do not confuse CMO panels with Samsung's poor implementation of the "C" panel. The VX2255wmb uses a CMO and it is a spectacular panel.

This is my first LCD monitor and I find the viewing angle quite bad, seeing yellowish colors if I'm not directly in front of the monitor. Because of this the colors aren't equal, if I'm centered in front of the monitor, the sides look yellowish and if I move to one side, it get worts on the other. Is this caused by the CMO panel or is it normal even with the LG.Philips LM220WE1 panel?

These are normal effects of a TN panel whether it be CMO or LG Philips.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Well i have looked at both the w2207 and the w2007 again at circuit city (spent 20mins messing with them)... The w2007 definitely looks better with default settings. I can tell just with looking at the desktop and a few pics that were on the computer. After adjusting the brightness in nvidia control panel though, they were pretty much even (again just from looking at them at the STORE).

The problem with the w2207 is its much brighter with the factory settings and makes it looked washed out.


I will eventually be picking up the HP w2207 because of its larger size, and better stand.

Interesting.

This coincides with w2007megs's sentiments here: http://www.hardforum.com/showt...213838&highlight=w2007

Originally posted by: thecoffeeguy
xtknight.
Really appreciate all your work in this thread.

After reading through your suggestions and a lot of post, i've boiled it down to either going with a 22" or a 24". Depends on some factors (money, fit on my desk, the wife....etc)

Knowing that, do you have models for each sizes you would recommend to fit my needs?

You mentioned the 24" from Dell, which looks nice.
What about on the 22" side of things?

All the 22"s I recommend in the OP are good. I really don't know if one would be better for your purposes or what. They are all decent. The HP w2207 is glossy which may be a factor for you. The ViewSonic VX2255wmb is the most stable/reliable choice for quality. The LG L226WTQ is another decent choice but I have a little skepticism about this model sometimes (the supposedly solved ghosting problem). I love my regular L226WT, although this is a different model with perhaps even a different panel.

The 2407WFP-HC is a good choice although there might be a little ghosting. It is a wide gamut panel so if you edit photos for screen targets you might want to avoid it. But otherwise, some pics may look more natural and some movies more vivid.

The HP LP2465 is the best alternative for a standard sRGB gamut display w/ no ghosting problems, at least as far as I know.

I still think the HC is the best option for you actually unless you believe the slight inverse ghosting problem will hamper gaming (or, like I mentioned, if you do work where your target is standard gamut/sRGB). Otherwise the vibrant colors are a pleasure to look at, especially for gaming.

REally appreciate it again.

Cheers,

TCG

http://www.coffeegeek.com

No problem. Please come back any time.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: siik
more LCD's to keep and eye out for

BenQ launches X-series LCDs for gamers

BenQ on Wednesday inaugurated the X series, its first complete line of LCD displays made just for gamers and others who demand fast response times. Aside from a checkered flag pattern at the base to reflect its gaming pedigree, the X is the first line to include two different gaming modes: an action mode adjusts the color and response for first-person shooters and most typical games, while a racing mode does the same for the typical camera views found in driving simulations.

The range-topping, 22-inch X2200W is also the first display to focus on a true measure of a display's speed that BenQ calls a Motion Picture Response Time. While most companies often focus on the less realistic gray-to-gray draw time for displays, the X2200W is quick for more dramatic black-to-white shifts in color; an average LCD takes a slow 20 milliseconds to change the pixel while the new display takes just 8, the company claims. The top screen is also more vivid than most competitors with 92 percent of the NTSC color gamut covered in a bright 1,000:1 contrast ratio.

Three smaller, quick displays also follow the 22-inch model into the market, including the 20-inch X2000W, the 19-inch X900W, and the 4:3 ratio X900. The two larger models support HDMI in addition to the DVI and VGA input common across all of the monitors. All models are due to ship this month, though only the X900W is intended to reach the US by the end of this year.

Hmm thanks for the news, I just wouldn't expect anything revolutionary (at least not as this carefully-crafted PR message sounds).

"Gaming modes" to me sound like dynamic contrast (like Samsung MagicBright/Color, NEC's DV Modes, etc). This has all been around for ages.

Gray-to-gray is more realistic, not less realistic, unless you display seizure-inducing images on your LCD everyday (black-to-white, white-to-black, black-to-white???)

This probably means it is a TN, whose primary advantage is white-to-black only, where gray-to-gray is a little slower. They may not be using overdrive here, either.

The wide gamut is a welcome addition. Notice it says only the 22" ("top model") will have this, however.

On the other hand, 22" choices are limited now and it would be nice for another contender to come in. That goes especially for the 20" form factor. On the 19" side of things I think the LG 2 ms (g2g) 19" LCDs will always lead the way.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: R0B0
Anyone know of a 20" monitor that is good for gaming?

The HP w2007 and LG L204WT are decent 20" gaming monitors. I steer clear of the Samsung 206BW because of the panel lottery.

Originally posted by: fiyawerx
Not sure if anyone else is following the fhd2400's.. but circuit city just dropped their price to 499, and newegg finally added it to their site for the original 550 - nice thing is free shipping and no tax, plus a free dvd player (combo deal). I'm just scared to get an lcd from newegg, seems like I'd have a better time if I had issues with it returning to a b&m store, but maybe I'm just being too paranoid. Dead pixels scare me, not sure about the other stores, but with compusa's 'protection' plan, if you have an accident like dog knocking it off the desk, you can take it back no questions asked for replacement for 2 years. Might see if I can get comp to pricematch cc.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...6824113012&Tpk=fhd2400
So far rated 100% 5 star with 4 reviews.

Don't miss the LP2465 for $540 AR though:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176059&Tpk=lp2465

Primary differences between these two:

- LP2465 uses 8-bit S-PVA matte panel, is better in dark tones
- FHD2400 offers multimedia inputs and glossy screen, is 6-bit and performs worse in darker scenes
- FHD2400 may have less input lag/ghosting, more suited towards gaming
- FHD2400 is wide gamut, LP2465 matches sRGB only

I always just order from Newegg and pray that same night. It has worked so far.

Usually if something terrible (or even not so terrible) happens you can deal with the OEM (e.g. Gateway) directly.

The Gateway sure is a great package, especially for gamers. If you don't game however, the LP2465 is probably a better choice for movies/general use, and especially photo editing.

 

[xtknight]

What they don't want you to see...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9138204@N03/2089713011/

Uniform IPS panel vs VA panel with backlight bleeding...

Black level:
NEC 20WMGX2: 0.27-0.30 nits
ViewSonic VP930b: 0.24-0.26 nits

Black level isn't everything...consider angle dependency, reflections, and backlight uniformity.

Primary differences here are due to panel type, not panel coating. Straight on it isn't as bad, but the blue cast is very annoying still on darker images.

If you're considering a VA panel, be sure it has great uniformity ratings. It is very important for VA panels. IPS panels seem to be much less prone to backlight issues, these days. There are plenty of VA panels that shouldn't have problems like this. Always consult prad.de, Tom's Hardware Guide, or X-Bit Labs for uniformity measurements.

Note it is a very exaggerated photo especially when viewing straight-on, but everything is quite easily visible to the human eye in real life so it is not as exaggerated as you would like to think.

 

[redlinez33]

Do you believe the viewsonic VX2255wmb or the HP w2207 would be the better monitor for gaming?

Also, the HP w2207 comes in 2 different panels (well it says from your list) do you know if theres an advantage to either one of those panels? or are they pretty much the same?