[Retired] The LCD Thread

[JoshC2]

Ok,
I've been lurking the forums for some time. I currently have a 20WMGX2 (bought some time ago) and am glad to see that i've made a good decision w/o the help of all the knowledge here I do say, it is without a doubt the nicest display i've seen. Problem is, I need more real estate now. I want to go for a 24" display. I can't do a 27", otherwise i would have already bought a Samsung 275T.

I have seen the Dell 2407WFP-HC in action and the ghosting issue makes it entirely unacceptable. I do a lot of gaming and I'm not awfully concerned on viewing angle as I will always be viewing this monitor head-on. But, I do want great color reproduction and lag/ghosting is unacceptable. The gateway offering seems pretty good as it has a wide gamut and I have access to an eye-one to get the best out of this display. I also like the glossy screen. My concerns are the black levels and if the display will look too "washed out". The Dell, aside from the ghosting issue was really beautiful. Will i be sorely disappointed w/ a TN display vs. the VA & IPS panels? I'm basically sitting here is the same position as many. I want it all, but that display does not seem to exist.

Are there other displays on the horizon i should be waiting for? Is there a "money is no object" solution? Has the technology, as a previous poster suggested, peaked and it's all down hill from here?

So, yeah, I want a 24", bright, beautiful (LCD) display with minimal input lag/ghosting with good color reproduction that won't leave me longing for my NEC. I'm willing to wait a bit if a better solution is on the horizon (like an update to the dell, though post reading the dell message board, i'm not holding out hope)

Thanks for hearing me out

 

[Nnyan]

OK so this weekend I"m going to pick up the 226CW and the gateway FHD2400 to see what I like better. I'll use the Spyder Express on both to get them properly calibrated and post my findings after I've played around with them for at least a few days each.

 

[Cheex]

As you probably realize, I'm in the market for my first LCD monitor. So I'm doing my research now while I slowly accumulate the funds.

I've been playing with the idea of 22" vs 24" and I've decided to just go large from now and just get a 24".

I need some professional information on this one:
Westinghouse L2410NM

Thanks in advance.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

I've been using a 21" Trinitron for years, but its finally dying and so I just purchased a VP2130b, but am seriously considering swapping it for an NEC 20WMGX2 before its too late. I do about even amounts of gaming and Photoshop and Illustrator work, and I have two main questions:

1. I've read that the NEC has scaling issues/no internal scaler. Using recent drivers for my 8800GT, can I do 1400x1050 1:1 if I need to (ie, 4:3 at max. vertical with black bars on sides)?

2. I'm having a hard time imagining the difference between 1600x1200 @ 21" 4:3 (2130b) and 1680x1050 @ 20.1" WS (NEC). Will text and/or icons be larger at 1680x1050 even though viewable area is smaller? The VP2130b is razor-sharp, but I just turned 35 and my ancient eyes are having trouble with the tiny text at 1600x1200.

EDIT: Xtknight, I just saw your photos of the 20WMGX2 (1680x1050) and VP930b (1280x1024) sitting side by side...if you had to compare default Windows text and/or icon size, are they roughly similar?

 

[ClockHound]

Edit: Okay, after scouring around some more, it seems like people are gravitating toward the BenQ 241Ws that have the "Sept 2007 manufacture date". I guess there was some kind of firmware revision recently and there is now an option to turn overscan on/off. Can anyone clarify this for me?

That's what I was told. Not sure that a firmware fix will improve lag times tho. Will know for sure when my 241W arrives in a few days...but it's still over a million seconds away! Now that is an insufferable lag. :laugh:

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: Cheex
As you probably realize, I'm in the market for my first LCD monitor. So I'm doing my research now while I slowly accumulate the funds.

I've been playing with the idea of 22" vs 24" and I've decided to just go large from now and just get a 24".

I need some professional information on this one:
Westinghouse L2410NM

Thanks in advance.

Basically, I want to know which is the (in order of priority):

1) BEST 24" monitor for gaming!!
2) Will also be good for movies and has good colour reproduction.
3) I absolutely DO NOT want a 24" TN panel...

 

[Featherock]

I've combed through this thread for more than a week and am overwhelmed by the wealth of information, much of which is over my head. So, I will post my question instead.

I'm a pro photog. Have never used an LCD for photo editing before. I use a LaCie 19" Electron Blue CRT right now, and it's starting to flake out on me. I've got about $1500, give or take, to spend on an LCD. What I need most is a wide color gamut and color accuracy (although I profile with a Spyder), and size minimum 24". I plan to run two displays off my Mac, the LaCie as the pallette holder and the new LCD for the actual photo editing.

Suggestions?

 

[Cellulose]

Whats peoples opinion on spending 30-40 dollars more (from what I can see) on the ViewSonic VX2255wmb instead of the Samsung 226BW?

Thanks,
Joe

 

[Mockyngbyrd]

I would like to thank the forum and xtknight for providing such valuable information. I've learned a lot and am enjoying the BenQ fp241w as a result. It's the Sept. 07 build w/ 1:1 scaling. It's a great monitor sofar. I look forward to contributing the knowledge I gain about this monitor and sharing it with you.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: aminparis
Hello,

Just some more info on those interested in the Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW... So far in Europe there have been CMO panel versions of this screen; however, nothing too dramatic (Samsung has remedied the inconsistent reactivity) with just slightly bluish colors that can be somewhat manually corrected. For those interested, here is an article on Behardware.com (http://www.behardware.com/arti...ces-3eme-fournee.html) and digitalversus.com (http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-2683-36.html). Our site would be interested in knowing what's the status in the US or elsewhere for this screen?

thanks

I haven't heard much about the 2232BW in the US. I would only have to assume they're doing the same thing here like they did with the 226BW. Users in the US continue to have problems with Samsung's 206BW and 226BW panels ("A" and the two "C"s) so I haven't been recommending them. I can't see myself recommending the 2232BW either even if it ends up fine in the US.

I really dislike their practices, and from what I see on the DigitalVersus site the panels are quite different with default colors. Reactivity seems slower in one of the tests as well. Not sure how this translates in real life...hopefully not too badly.

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...6&mo2=278&p2=2617&ph=5

The default colors aren't too pleasing compared to the good version. But I might end up recommending it anyway if this is the only downfall. The main problem with the other Samsungs was the blue tint and overdrive ghosting.

Hope this answers your questions. I really don't know the exact status of the 2232BW in the US.

Originally posted by: ivanchin99
Sorry i didnt explain my situation more clearly.

In this isolated place of mine, it's not easy to find many stores that actually sell LCD monitors. I only have 4 choices - Samsung 226BW, Samsung 2232BW, Acer 22" (ew), Dell 22"(online) .. Hence i couldnt get your recommended LCDs in ur original post. Lg L226wtq is now not a possiblity as well because of some problem by the seller and i just want a LCD probably in the next few days so buying at local store is the fastest option.

The Acer 22" isn't such a bad option. In fact, you may very, very well end up with a better panel that route than with any other you listed there.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Knobjockey
Hi,

I read through the first page and thanks!

However I am looking for a monitor in the UK and it turns out its a little harder to finalize on a monitor than I thought it would be.

I am looking for a monitor for gaming on both the PC and on an Xbox 360 as well as general browsing/messenging. Wall mountable is nice but I cant find any cheap wall mountable monitors so far.

I am not looking to spend more than 180-190 pounds so I narrowed it down to a few (well...not so few ):

Acer P223W/X223W: 160/135 (no1 choice atm 22inch)
-Acer P203W: 140 (20 inch version)

Samsung SM2032BW/206BW: 160/160 (no2 choice atm 20inch)

+CIBOX C2201/C2201D: 150/165
+Belinea 2225S1W/Belinea 2230S1W: 160
+ASUS VW222S: 160

I was hoping for a 22 inch for better use with the Xbox 360 (where I will probably a few more feet away), but included a 20 inch if the specs mean that much more. Whats confusing me a little however is the different way to measure things like response time for example, as it doesnt always say.

Unfortunately, I only know what I understood from reading your guide So any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks!

Joe

The Belinea 2230S1W isn't such a bad choice here. It's pretty much the only one I recognize, and I'm not recommending the Samsungs because of their panel lotteries.

Info on Belinea 2230S1W here: http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html

They don't make it sound like anything spectacular but it's probably as good or better than those other monitors you listed. They don't state anything 'wrong' with it either. Give it a try.

How do you plan on hooking the monitor up to an Xbox 360?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: JoshC2
Ok,
I've been lurking the forums for some time. I currently have a 20WMGX2 (bought some time ago) and am glad to see that i've made a good decision w/o the help of all the knowledge here I do say, it is without a doubt the nicest display i've seen. Problem is, I need more real estate now. I want to go for a 24" display. I can't do a 27", otherwise i would have already bought a Samsung 275T.

I have seen the Dell 2407WFP-HC in action and the ghosting issue makes it entirely unacceptable. I do a lot of gaming and I'm not awfully concerned on viewing angle as I will always be viewing this monitor head-on. But, I do want great color reproduction and lag/ghosting is unacceptable. The gateway offering seems pretty good as it has a wide gamut and I have access to an eye-one to get the best out of this display. I also like the glossy screen. My concerns are the black levels and if the display will look too "washed out". The Dell, aside from the ghosting issue was really beautiful. Will i be sorely disappointed w/ a TN display vs. the VA & IPS panels? I'm basically sitting here is the same position as many. I want it all, but that display does not seem to exist.

I don't think you'll be that pleased with the dark details of the Gateway FHD2400, if that's the one you're talking about.

What about the HP LP2465? It's standard gamut but it's still a great display. Wide gamut isn't all it's cracked up to be for normal media unless you have one of the pro LCDs where you can actually restrict gamut a little through emulation.

Are there other displays on the horizon i should be waiting for? Is there a "money is no object" solution? Has the technology, as a previous poster suggested, peaked and it's all down hill from here?

So, yeah, I want a 24", bright, beautiful (LCD) display with minimal input lag/ghosting with good color reproduction that won't leave me longing for my NEC. I'm willing to wait a bit if a better solution is on the horizon (like an update to the dell, though post reading the dell message board, i'm not holding out hope)

Thanks for hearing me out

Try the HP LP2465, in my opinion.

If you can do 25.5", the NEC LCD2690WUXi is a decent "money is no object" option. I upgraded to this from a 20WMGX2 and I am mostly thrilled. The matte panel makes blacks look a little brighter and I don't like that too much but it's still awesome.

The 20WMGX2 is a good display, this is no joke.

I hope to do an in-depth review of the NEC LCD2690WUXi versus 20WMGX2/ etc...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nnyan
OK so this weekend I"m going to pick up the 226CW and the gateway FHD2400 to see what I like better. I'll use the Spyder Express on both to get them properly calibrated and post my findings after I've played around with them for at least a few days each.

Thanks. I'm looking forward to hearing your results.

Originally posted by: Cheex
As you probably realize, I'm in the market for my first LCD monitor. So I'm doing my research now while I slowly accumulate the funds.

I've been playing with the idea of 22" vs 24" and I've decided to just go large from now and just get a 24".

I need some professional information on this one:
Westinghouse L2410NM

Thanks in advance.

As far as I know this is a TN panel and the manufacturer stated it wrongly with the viewing angles. Therefore it's at the bottom of my list, especially since I haven't seen any reviews on it.

I recommend the Samsung 245BW (TN) for a value 24" panel. At least save up for this, IMO. Anything less is simply not anything I would recommend.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001234

Originally posted by: Cheex
Basically, I want to know which is the (in order of priority):

1) BEST 24" monitor for gaming!!
2) Will also be good for movies and has good colour reproduction.
3) I absolutely DO NOT want a 24" TN panel...

I can't say that the 245BW is going to be any better than the Westinghouse though since there have been no reviews on the L2410NM yet on the trusted sites! Ideally you would be able to get the HP LP2465 (S-PVA) but it is a lot more expensive than the L2410NM and maybe it's not worth it to you.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176059&Tpk=lp2465

Then again, you say you want no TN panels, so here you go. ^^

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
I've been using a 21" Trinitron for years, but its finally dying and so I just purchased a VP2130b, but am seriously considering swapping it for an NEC 20WMGX2 before its too late. I do about even amounts of gaming and Photoshop and Illustrator work, and I have two main questions:

1. I've read that the NEC has scaling issues/no internal scaler. Using recent drivers for my 8800GT, can I do 1400x1050 1:1 if I need to (ie, 4:3 at max. vertical with black bars on sides)?

It has an internal scaler, but it is dead-set to scale to full screen only. You can not do 1:1 with the 20WMGX2.

You can not do 1400x1050 1:1 or "4:3" or anything else, but you can do 1400x1050 scaled to the whole screen.

2. I'm having a hard time imagining the difference between 1600x1200 @ 21" 4:3 (2130b) and 1680x1050 @ 20.1" WS (NEC). Will text and/or icons be larger at 1680x1050 even though viewable area is smaller? The VP2130b is razor-sharp, but I just turned 35 and my ancient eyes are having trouble with the tiny text at 1600x1200.

I've used 1680x1050 and 1600x1200 and there really is not much difference at all. I like the widescreen better honestly.

EDIT: Xtknight, I just saw your photos of the 20WMGX2 (1680x1050) and VP930b (1280x1024) sitting side by side...if you had to compare default Windows text and/or icon size, are they roughly similar?

No. The NEC is 0.258mm and the VP930b is 0.294mm. There is a considerable difference in text size actually. This is about as big of a difference as you'll see, short of a 1600x1200 20" LCD (0.255) vs. a 1920x1200 27" (0.303).

 

[alexthebored]

Anyone have any word on the LG L246WH-BN 24IN?
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...id=1061#Specifications

So far I can't find it on any review sites, and it appears to be in a limited number of stores. However, the specs on the page look decent: 170/170 viewing angle, 5ms response time, 2000:1 contrast, HDMI input + an HDMI/DVI cable included

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: alexthebored
Anyone have any word on the LG L246WH-BN 24IN?
http://www.ncix.com/products/i...id=1061#Specifications

So far I can't find it on any review sites, and it appears to be in a limited number of stores. However, the specs on the page look decent: 170/170 viewing angle, 5ms response time, 2000:1 contrast, HDMI input + an HDMI/DVI cable included

It sounds like a TN, but it could be a possible competitor to the Samsung 245BW for a gaming LCD.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Knobjockey
Whats peoples opinion on spending 30-40 dollars more (from what I can see) on the ViewSonic VX2255wmb instead of the Samsung 226BW?

Thanks,
Joe

It's well worth it, to get a panel that you know will be decent.

Originally posted by: Featherock
I've combed through this thread for more than a week and am overwhelmed by the wealth of information, much of which is over my head. So, I will post my question instead.

I'm a pro photog. Have never used an LCD for photo editing before. I use a LaCie 19" Electron Blue CRT right now, and it's starting to flake out on me. I've got about $1500, give or take, to spend on an LCD. What I need most is a wide color gamut and color accuracy (although I profile with a Spyder), and size minimum 24". I plan to run two displays off my Mac, the LaCie as the pallette holder and the new LCD for the actual photo editing.

Suggestions?

The NEC LCD2690WUXi is awesome, it's $1200. Great deal though, at least considering it used to be $1600+. I can't think of any competition whatsoever at the $1200 point, at least for the 23-27" range of sizes.

If you have any questions, I can answer them. I will be reviewing this LCD. Probably not anything formal but I'll take some notes on it and post my thoughts in a little bit.

The NEC seems to have great accuracy by default actually, at least for the wide gamut. All tones are displayed smoothly and they look vibrant. It's the first LCD I've used that didn't feel like it needed further adjustment.

I don't know how it does with the regular sRGB space. I'll have to wait until the SpectraView software arrives.

I suggest the LCD2490WUXi instead for matching screen since it does the normal sRGB gamut better. If you're matching prints then the LCD2690WUXi is the way to go. If you're doing both, then the LCD2690WUXi is probably the way to go, actually.

Edit: note, the black level of even expensive LCDs like this is still high relative to a CRT. And, indeed, the LCD2690WUXi is no different. Black looks a little grayish but that's the way it goes. 0.23 nits is still the best in the biz for an IPS-based panel. There are other S-PVA panels but I don't like these as much as the IPS ones since they have tone shifting in the center plane and this is quite annoying depending on the particular picture you're editing.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mockyngbyrd
I would like to thank the forum and xtknight for providing such valuable information. I've learned a lot and am enjoying the BenQ fp241w as a result. It's the Sept. 07 build w/ 1:1 scaling. It's a great monitor sofar. I look forward to contributing the knowledge I gain about this monitor and sharing it with you.

Cool, and I look forward to hearing your thoughts.

 

[Featherock]

I know a lot of people have said this, but it doesn't hurt to say it again: thanks for your help xt. people like you make the web actually worthwhile, more than a place to watch grainy videos of people singing in their underwear.

 

[Butterbean]

Originally posted by: Featherock
I know a lot of people have said this, but it doesn't hurt to say it again: thanks for your help xt. people like you make the web actually worthwhile, more than a place to watch grainy videos of people singing in their underwear.

Lol - especially on a TN. Grainy underwear and gamma shift is manky!

 

[Butterbean]

Oh whilst I am thinking of it - you still prefer Nvidia xtknight? I never had NV but recall you always mention they are easier to adjust resolutions with. I might get a Dell 3007 or 3008 (I read it might be S-IPS) and want to upgrade. Are certain cards better for the larger monitors? Its murky reading about Crossfire vs SLI and such. Not that I need duals yet anyway. I recall ATI had rep for better graphics/details but buggier drivers due to more mathematical complexity (or so I have read). Now I see the new ATI can take HDMI? If that's too complicated then I would wonder what you would get if you were getting card now and want goood card for 24" and above for all-around stuff. Thanks.

 

[Scalarscience]

Just dropping in with my progress on my 275t I've been very happy with the image quality and performance of the monitor itself, but have what appears to be a defective unit and am currently unable to get a replacement from Samsung and so I'm trying to cajole one out of newegg (who keeps referring me back to samsung and so on). I purchased the unit from newegg in mid-October., and have actually enjoyed every moment I've spent with it in my 3d app, Adobe apps, doing web design and even gaming (though it is a tad slow obviously but fair enough for my needs).

When I first used the unit (as in the very first day) there were issues with its USB2 hub. Initially connecting devices to the monitor via USB meant I had to unplug and replug the monitor connection to the computer for the computer to properly see and load drivers for whatever the USB device was. This applies to my iPod, my wife's inexpensive digital camera (also a samsung) and several other various devices lying around (headset/mic, thumb drive etc). Over the last 1.5 months the USB issues got worse, and neither Samsung nor Newegg thought the issue was severe enough for a direct replacement, so the only option at that point was to send the unit back to Samsung for repairs (6-8 weeks turnaround 'estimated' with no guarantee). I didn't even bother starting the RMA process on that and just decided to write off the USB2 functionality.

Then last Sunday (about 6 days ago) the unit failed completely on me while working. I'm not sure the point of failure but the backlight appears to be completely out when I power the monitor on in the dark. Using a light to light the LCD doesn't show any unlit pixels doing anything, so the failure might be higher up than the backlight, but the unit is completely unusable. Newegg had sold me a 1 year on-site service contract, but neglected to make it clear that this didn't apply until some time after Samsung's warranty had run out. The newegg people said something about 1 year, but as the monitor comes with a 3 year warranty I'm not really sure what good a 1 year extended onsite warranty from Newegg really is at this point (will it run out in the 2nd year of ownership or kick in after my 3rd year? the newegg reps I spoke with weren't sure). Feels a bit like I went to compusa there (though I generally hold newegg in high regard).

Attempts to deal with the return with newegg kept leading me back to Samsung, who is apparently out of stock and can only do repair (this time they say 2+ months with no firm estimate on turnaround plus I bear shipping costs to them) or refund (4 week turnaround on 'a check' once they have even received the monitor, again I bear shipping costs). Newegg hasn't budged so far but I think this morning I'm going to call and do some yelling and see what that achieves.

I'm sure that this is just a manufacturing flaw I got bitten but, but I'm a bit disappointed that it's been basically 1 work week and I'm stuck here on a 19" viewsonic CRT with still no idea when I might have a decent unit again. So far the only real option I've been given is to buy another 275t from Newegg and wait on Samsung's refund to process. Given that my wedding anniversary was this week and I've recently moved plus spent another bundle on christmas gifts, I'm unfortunately SOL atm.

Thanks for letting me rant. I've otherwise been really happy with my 275t and would just like to get a unit that works properly!

 

[JoshC2]

delete

 

[JoshC2]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: JoshC2

Try the HP LP2465, in my opinion.

If you can do 25.5", the NEC LCD2690WUXi is a decent "money is no object" option. I upgraded to this from a 20WMGX2 and I am mostly thrilled. The matte panel makes blacks look a little brighter and I don't like that too much but it's still awesome.

The 20WMGX2 is a good display, this is no joke.

I hope to do an in-depth review of the NEC LCD2690WUXi versus 20WMGX2/ etc...

Thanks for getting back so quick!

I'm kind of surprised that you recommend the HP LP2465 considering it's response time is fairly high. Can you just give me a little insight into your thought process on this?

Is the LCD2490WUXi specifically inferior to the LCD2690WUXi in terms of gaming & multimedia performance? I have faith the that color accuracy & reproduction will exceed my needs for just most of the panels we are discussing. As an alternative, it would seem that if I can get my hands on a Dell 2407wfp v. A04, I should jump all over it. Or, despite Dell's denial, should I hold out hope for a revision to the HC version that corrects the inverse ghosting issues?

At this point, I'm considering petitioning NEC to build a 24WMGX2

With it's ridiculously deep black levels and super quick response time, I'm afraid the 20WMGX2 has spoiled me forever...

 

[DoctorM]

NEC building a 24WMGX2 of the same quality as the 20"? I'd be all over that.
Frankly the 20" size was what made me hesitate (and miss) the 20wmgx2 sale at NewEgg.