[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Bidhere23]

Is there anywhere I can find a database with all the screen sizes, resolutions or aspect ratios of different monitors and laptop lcds? The LCD panel tabel link on page 1 doesn't work.

Thanks!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: puti
Not much luck here in Australia when I comes to good monitors. I've got the choice of either the Samsung 226BW 'C' panel or the LG 226WTQ (possible ghosting)

This is a hard choice because both are inferior versions of the models. Any suggestions of which one I should go for?

Thanks in advance.

Well, the latest revs of the Q no longer have ghosting issues. So, I would give the Q a shot first. If it does have issues, see if they bother you a lot. If so, then I think the next course of action is obvious (return that and get the 226BW).

Check out Andrew Swihart's page for color profiles for the 'C' 226BW: http://www.andrewswihart.net/b...sung-226bw-lcd-c-panel

That's assuming you know you're getting the 'C' and not the 'A'. But there are also 'A' and 'S' profiles on behardware.com's Monitors section (in their coverage of the 226BW). Use whatever looks best.

Please note that the HP w2207 (glossy) is always a viable alternative to the LG, maybe even preferable to the 226BW.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: dedejean
Thank you for that reply.

Some of my peers here (2 to be exact) bought S panel 226bw and managed to view the hidden menu. So they just implemented that removal on current C panels. What a drag.

So you finally un-recommend 226bw (to me specifically)?

There are lots of LG226WTQ available here, but not 226WT. I have been back reading trying to understand the difference on WT and WTQ but still cannot differentiate.

The Q has overdrive, but along with that comes some poor implementation (it actually causes ghosting in some cases). Later revisions are said to have fixed this problem. I would give the Q a try, and take the same route I told puti to take in my previous post. Sorry, that's what you're going to have to do if you want the best.

You'd be missing out with the CMO 22" panels although you could try the 22" CMO and AUO color profiles

what does this mean? i can get either CMO or AUO with 226WT?

I also described this in my previous post.

Okay, so you recommend 226WT over 226bw (A/C) but not over 226bw (S). Am i right? Should I wait for 226cw?

L226WT>HP w2207>226BW (S)>L226WTQ [with ghosting problem]>226BW (A)>226BW (C)

But calibration profiles can put the (A) and (C)s to the point of the (S). Therefore, a flawed L226WTQ is the worst you could end up with. And, I don't think that is very likely since LG seems to have fixed the ghosting issues according to more than a few reports (seems to be fixed since 1.14 firmware).

The HP w2207 is definitely not a monitor to be forgotten. Its performance is up there with the 226BW (S) since it uses a Samsung panel. Plus, it has a glossy coating. This will be added to my page 1 recommendations.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: dedejean

Originally posted by: xtknight
I've gotten a couple reports that the latest revisions of the L226WTQ do not have the ghosting problems. I'll attempt to verify this and remove the note in the OP.

BTW please don't be afraid to post links of new LCD reviews or any other LCD info here.

yes... ive read the same issue too.... its got something to do with the new 1.14 firmware. But i cant find how to update it or does it come with the factory setup... If it can be updated manually, then great. if not, then sucks

Technically, LG may be able to offer a software update. I know ViewSonic has done this with some of their LCDs to fix some issues. But, I doubt that will happen. The only sure way to get the new firmware is to get an LCD manufactured recently.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Bidhere23
Is there anywhere I can find a database with all the screen sizes, resolutions or aspect ratios of different monitors and laptop lcds? The LCD panel tabel link on page 1 doesn't work.

Thanks!

Thanks for trying to make the thread better.

I have tried all the links, and they have all worked for me (eventually). It does take a bit of time (the pages to download are quite big). As it stands I'm not sure there's much I can do about that. Alternate sources include tftcentral.co.uk (empty search query) and flatpanels.dk/panels.php. I'll make sure that the tftcentral panel search gets a spot in my OP (page 1).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP
A barrage of new monitors has appeared on the Samsung Canada web site. I am looking only at widescreens:

First, the long-awaited 226CW with expanded color gamut:

http://www.samsung.com/ca/prod...sp?page=Specifications

Then the unexpected 216BW 21.6 inch (not 22) monitor. I hoped briefly for a 215TW successor but no, it is a TN, without overdrive:

http://www.samsung.com/ca/prod...reen/ls22mevsfvxaa.asp

Looking at the 216BW Manual here:

http://downloadcenter.samsung...._BN59-00521T-00Eng.pdf

It appears the 216BW has a clone named 223BW, also a 21.6 inch monitor. Talk about a misleading nomenclature.

I am guessing the 216BW will be a price leader, with the size resulting from the no-loss utilization of the glass substrate.

Comparing 22-inch with 21.6-inch widescreens

The new 931CW 19-inch TN with wide color gamut and overdrive:

http://www.samsung.com/ca/prod...sp?page=Specifications

The new 225MS TN, no-overdrive, 22-inch multimedia monitor:

http://www.samsung.com/ca/prod...sp?page=Specifications

Two new 24-inch TN monitors: 245B and 245BW, which look identical:

http://www.samsung.com/ca/prod...reen/ls24hubcbqxaa.asp

http://www.samsung.com/ca/prod...reen/ls24hubcfvxaa.asp

Wow...tons of models to look forward to. The only question is: which ones will perform as expected?

21.6" size sure is an oddity. I wonder why they thought that was better than 22". It just seems to be not enough difference to make it worth it. It's possible they can divide their glass and waste less with 21.6" but that would be out of desparation, it seems.

I sincerely hope Samsung does not get rid of all their S-PVA panels. These days, they seem to be all about cheap, HDCP, RTC-less TNs instead of high quality stuff, which is really a shame. Their panel lotteries have been less than impressive (I wonder if they will 'outsource' the panels in these future monitors, too?)

To their credit they have always been innovative (the wide color gamut and multimedia monitors). But they need to stop using TN panels, much less outsourcing them. They need to bring true 8-bit panels to market. Why they are trying to let overdrive die off is also a mystery to me (I suppose it could be because of input lag complaints, but I somehow doubt this). It is probably to save money in the driving electronics. They better make sure they save themselves some bad press due to panel lotteries and cheapness, as well.

The 245BW just has a glossy bezel whereas the 245B does not. I'm not sure that Samsung has ever tried releasing a glossy-glass panel. The glossy bezels actually look pretty annoying (easily stained by skin oils).

 

[Lalakai]

Xtknight, thanks for all the work on an excellent thread. I've gone through it, and looked at linked sites, trying to get info on a good LCD that doesn't use tn panels, preferable with no time compensation or accellerators. I looked at your top recommendations for gaming monitors, and they all use the tn panels. Color is a consideration, but more importantly is the issue of ghosting.

gaming is a primary use for my system. currently i have a mitsubishi 19 CRT that i love, and the second system in the house also has a CRT that's fading. lol sorry but from what i've seen in the stores I'm still not impressed with the lcd units compared to the CRT i use. My budget is flexible up to $450 or a bit more, (and yes if i could find the crt i want, i would still go for that) and i may be forced into buying the lcd. would you still recommend the tn models as the best option for gaming?

I've seen alot of other members giving input on this thread and their experience would be useful also. Gaming is serious in my house and on weekends the systems are in use nearly 24/7. I can use my crt for several hours and have no issues with eyes fatigue, headaches, or flickering (dying during game play is a topic i won't get into though )

thanks again Xtknight and to all the others who have made this a very valuable thread.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: puti
I'm also reading some very recent reports of the the new LG 226WTQ monitors not suffereing from ghosting. I'll probably go for it because I like the thin, simple bezel. Much better design.

I'm also looking at the the LG Flatron L245WP. Looks promising: 24" S-IPS panel. Not much on reviews but it looks promising.
http://www.pcpro.co.uk/reviews...lg-flatron-l245wp.html

The L245WP is a P-MVA, not an S-IPS. It's up there with the BenQ FP241W and Dell 2407WFP, though.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Lalakai
Xtknight, thanks for all the work on an excellent thread. I've gone through it, and looked at linked sites, trying to get info on a good LCD that doesn't use tn panels, preferable with no time compensation or accellerators. I looked at your top recommendations for gaming monitors, and they all use the tn panels. Color is a consideration, but more importantly is the issue of ghosting.

gaming is a primary use for my system. currently i have a mitsubishi 19 CRT that i love, and the second system in the house also has a CRT that's fading. lol sorry but from what i've seen in the stores I'm still not impressed with the lcd units compared to the CRT i use. My budget is flexible up to $450 or a bit more, (and yes if i could find the crt i want, i would still go for that) and i may be forced into buying the lcd. would you still recommend the tn models as the best option for gaming?

Well, if I were you I would jump on the NEC 20WMGX2 deal (I think it's about $500, maybe less, after rebates depending on where you shop).

$470 at Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002319

A dollar per candela. But oh boy is it worth it.

I've seen alot of other members giving input on this thread and their experience would be useful also. Gaming is serious in my house and on weekends the systems are in use nearly 24/7. I can use my crt for several hours and have no issues with eyes fatigue, headaches, or flickering (dying during game play is a topic i won't get into though )

thanks again Xtknight and to all the others who have made this a very valuable thread.

Well I think you would be disappointed with anything but the NEC 20WMGX2. If that isn't fast enough, then you could try the 90GX2, but opinions on which of those two is faster vary.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight

21.6" size sure is an oddity. I wonder why they thought that was better than 22". It just seems to be not enough difference to make it worth it. It's possible they can divide their glass and waste less with 21.6" but that would be out of desparation, it seems.

I sincerely hope Samsung does not get rid of all their S-PVA panels. These days, they seem to be all about cheap, HDCP, RTC-less TNs instead of high quality stuff, which is really a shame. Their panel lotteries have been less than impressive (I wonder if they will 'outsource' the panels in these future monitors, too?)

To their credit they have always been innovative (the wide color gamut and multimedia monitors). But they need to stop using TN panels, much less outsourcing them. They need to bring true 8-bit panels to market. Why they are trying to let overdrive die off is also a mystery to me (I suppose it could be because of input lag complaints, but I somehow doubt this). It is probably to save money in the driving electronics. They better make sure they save themselves some bad press due to panel lotteries and cheapness, as well.

The 245BW just has a glossy bezel whereas the 245B does not. I'm not sure that Samsung has ever tried releasing a glossy-glass panel. The glossy bezels actually look pretty annoying (easily stained by skin oils).

It is my educated guess that the 21.6-inch size is a no-cutting-loss product of a given-size LCD substrate (eg: 5.5G), and not necessarily from a Samsung factory. I can't see any other explanation and there is no such panel on the Samsung website. I anticipate the 216BW will be inexpensive (for a Samsung), because it will not use a Samsung panel and has no overdrive. But the base and bezel look good...

It seems that the LCD monitor market is inexorably moving towards more and more TN panels. No overdrive saves money and development time. A lot of development effort seems to be allowed to designing nice-looking bases and bezels...A lot of space in LCD monitor reviews is allowed to describing the base and bezel of the monitor...

Congrats for spotting the difference between 245B and 245BW! You just won a 30-inch TN monitor!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP
It is my educated guess that the 21.6-inch size is a no-cutting-loss product of a given-size LCD substrate (eg: 5.5G), and not necessarily from a Samsung factory. I can't see any other explanation and there is no such panel on the Samsung website. I anticipate the 216BW will be inexpensive (for a Samsung), because it will not use a Samsung panel and has no overdrive. But the base and bezel look good...

It seems that the LCD monitor market is inexorably moving towards more and more TN panels. No overdrive saves money and development time. A lot of development effort seems to be allowed to designing nice-looking bases and bezels...A lot of space in LCD monitor reviews is allowed to describing the base and bezel of the monitor...

All true...

Congrats for spotting the difference between 245B and 245BW! You just won a 30-inch TN monitor!

Combine the facial expression of a drop-dead horrible pun, laughter, and sadness, and you have my reaction to that.

 

[pdp76]

So the initial post gave a few brief descriptions about the differences between the new ver.3 of the VP930b and the previous version (which I assume is ver.2) Has anyone done a direct side by side comparison between the two? This online store has about a $150 price difference between the 2 versions, so I'm wondering if the older version is really that much worse than the new ver.3 My main concern is that the new ver.3 supposedly has a completely new panel. Can anyone elaborate more on the differences? Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pdp76
So the initial post gave a few brief descriptions about the differences between the new ver.3 of the VP930b and the previous version (which I assume is ver.2) Has anyone done a direct side by side comparison between the two? This online store has about a $150 price difference between the 2 versions, so I'm wondering if the older version is really that much worse than the new ver.3 My main concern is that the new ver.3 supposedly has a completely new panel. Can anyone elaborate more on the differences? Thanks.

Supposedly the rev 3 is/has:

- True 8-bit
- Resolution notice that can be disabled
- Possibly fewer backlight bleeding problems

I am not personally able to verify any of this. I have a rev. 2 VP930b that is 6-bit+FRC and has the annoying resolution notice.

$150 price difference? Well how much does the rev 3 end up costing, then? Are you sure there's not a better LCD in that price range?

 

[Cookie Monster]

I just bought my samsung 226bw C panel.

Initial impressions - I love the look of this thing. Its huge (considering i jumped from 15inch CRT to this 22inch) and very stylish with the glossy black piano finish. No USB ports can be found, cant adjust height but can be rotated. Checked the back and had a C written on it indicating it was a CMO version. (NZ only has C panels). Some back light bleeding at top and bottom but i can live with that. Hardly noticeable. When i turned the machine on, colours were washed out. Viewing angles horizontally are very good and even vertically from what i can tell.

Now, getting one of the profiles from andrew (the guy who reviewed the samsung C panel), i fired up Monitor Calibration Wizard, made XP load with the color profile during startup and while playing games.

After the tweaks (added a notch in sharpness, and DV etc personal tastes) and all i can say is WOW. Absolutely amazing! colours look very natural. Its friggn amazing to say the least. Performs fast in games (was playing quake4) , and very good for watching movies. No one should be afraid because its a C panel. Worth the money for sure.

Im going to get some pics of this LCD screen, but got no digi cam in the house. Ill guess i have to use the phone cam.

 

[adamsleath]

well; if i was putting together a good budget system i'd take the lg l226wtq...that's my 2cents worth

it's 450 aud.

i'm sure the samsung 226bw is equally as pleasing for the price.

 

[alins]

Eizo launches 24.1-inch ColorEdge CG241W LCD

http://www.engadget.com/2007/0...-coloredge-cg241w-lcd/

 

[pdp76]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: pdp76
So the initial post gave a few brief descriptions about the differences between the new ver.3 of the VP930b and the previous version (which I assume is ver.2) Has anyone done a direct side by side comparison between the two? This online store has about a $150 price difference between the 2 versions, so I'm wondering if the older version is really that much worse than the new ver.3 My main concern is that the new ver.3 supposedly has a completely new panel. Can anyone elaborate more on the differences? Thanks.

Supposedly the rev 3 is/has:

- True 8-bit
- Resolution notice that can be disabled
- Possibly fewer backlight bleeding problems

I am not personally able to verify any of this. I have a rev. 2 VP930b that is 6-bit+FRC and has the annoying resolution notice.

$150 price difference? Well how much does the rev 3 end up costing, then? Are you sure there's not a better LCD in that price range?

This store has the ver2 for $220 and the ver3 for $357. So I guess it's not really $150, I just rounded to the nearest $50 But still, that's a very significant difference in my book. Since this thread had the vp930b listed as a viable option for prosumer photo editing, I thought this was a great deal, until I realized this thread stated the ver3, not ver2. How does the ver2 hold up to basic photo editing?

 

[alins]

Samsung 206BW falls to $199 at Frys after 2 rebates, before shipping and any tax:

http://shop2.outpost.com/product/5164576

The $20 rebate link is not working, but will hopefully be fixed soon.

 

[dedejean]

@xknight

thanks.

I just got my LG226WTQ-wf v1.14 firmware. Its good. Didnt have the ghosting issue. But, it didnt live up to my expectations... i cant calibrate it right, its either too green, or too red. Its really bad... really.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: pdp76

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: pdp76
So the initial post gave a few brief descriptions about the differences between the new ver.3 of the VP930b and the previous version (which I assume is ver.2) Has anyone done a direct side by side comparison between the two? This online store has about a $150 price difference between the 2 versions, so I'm wondering if the older version is really that much worse than the new ver.3 My main concern is that the new ver.3 supposedly has a completely new panel. Can anyone elaborate more on the differences? Thanks.

Supposedly the rev 3 is/has:

- True 8-bit
- Resolution notice that can be disabled
- Possibly fewer backlight bleeding problems

I am not personally able to verify any of this. I have a rev. 2 VP930b that is 6-bit+FRC and has the annoying resolution notice.

$150 price difference? Well how much does the rev 3 end up costing, then? Are you sure there's not a better LCD in that price range?

This store has the ver2 for $220 and the ver3 for $357. So I guess it's not really $150, I just rounded to the nearest $50 But still, that's a very significant difference in my book. Since this thread had the vp930b listed as a viable option for prosumer photo editing, I thought this was a great deal, until I realized this thread stated the ver3, not ver2. How does the ver2 hold up to basic photo editing?

The rev2 isn't that great for photo editing without a colorimeter. The dithering artifacts can be annoying. I think the rev3 is worth it. I forgot to mention, the rev3 also fixed overzealous response time acceleration issues.

Cliffs: rev2 is a great deal, but not for your purposes. Get either rev3, or another LCD for around $350. The HP LP2065 is about as good as it comes for photo editing, and it's $349.95 here: http://www.pcconnection.com/Pr...sku=6415397&oext=1038A

It's around $25-40 more at other places but IMO it's really worth it for photo editing.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: dedejean
@xknight

thanks.

I just got my LG226WTQ-wf v1.14 firmware. Its good. Didnt have the ghosting issue. But, it didnt live up to my expectations... i cant calibrate it right, its either too green, or too red. Its really bad... really.

Did you try going in the service menu and changing the panel model in there? This affects color compensation. Maybe it got set at the wrong panel somehow. Did you try my settings here?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=2002685&STARTPAGE=1

 

[BernardP]

News: All Samsung 226BW made since April 1st have a Samsung panel!

The article is here on LesNumeriques. This info comes from Samsung itself. And manufaturing date appears on the back or the monitor.

I wonder if it also appears on the box. That would be even more useful.

The article is in French. It can be translated with Google, and will surely appear on BeHardware.com within a few days;

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/news_id-3258.html

 

[dedejean]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: dedejean
@xknight

thanks.

I just got my LG226WTQ-wf v1.14 firmware. Its good. Didnt have the ghosting issue. But, it didnt live up to my expectations... i cant calibrate it right, its either too green, or too red. Its really bad... really.

Did you try going in the service menu and changing the panel model in there? This affects color compensation. Maybe it got set at the wrong panel somehow. Did you try my settings here?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=2002685&STARTPAGE=1

i tried changing the panel from LPL to CMO, but nothing happened.

Are you suggesting i try your 226wt? mine is 226wtq. anyways, i will give it a try. tnx. really appreciate your help.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP
News: All Samsung 226BW made since April 1st have a Samsung panel!

That's great news, but[, everyone,] please note that this means that they were manufactured since April 1st. The stock of pre-April Samsungs may linger for some time.

As a result, the Samsung will appear on my recommendations the instant I feel that the stock has been permeated with (S) panels. Thank you for listening to the customers, Samsung, and LG (for updating the firmware and reducing ghosting problems). As you can see, it will earn you many points.

Originally posted by: dedejean

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: dedejean
@xknight

thanks.

I just got my LG226WTQ-wf v1.14 firmware. Its good. Didnt have the ghosting issue. But, it didnt live up to my expectations... i cant calibrate it right, its either too green, or too red. Its really bad... really.

Did you try going in the service menu and changing the panel model in there? This affects color compensation. Maybe it got set at the wrong panel somehow. Did you try my settings here?

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=2002685&STARTPAGE=1

i tried changing the panel from LPL to CMO, but nothing happened.

Are you suggesting i try your 226wt? mine is 226wtq. anyways, i will give it a try. tnx. really appreciate your help.

Interesting that nothing happened, but yes I am suggesting you try my L226WT (vanilla) profile. The Q may have different settings in the menu; let me know if that is the case with yours.

 

[dedejean]

i cant seem to get my red right.. its either too red, or too orange.. its not the right red. This is bad... real bad.