[Retired] The LCD Thread

[anomaly218]

So, any solution to using duel monitors and playing movies while playing games?

 

[MonitorSearcher]

Well, I got the SyncMaster 931C and while it looks nice in games, I'm not overly happy with how it displays movies. I'm not sure if I have it configured correctly because I couldn't find any profiles but I did try to follow the instructions in the first post.

 

[Trean]

TechOnWeb and PCConnection both responded to my email about their dead pixel policies. Both stated that they follow the Viewsonic dead pixel policy as stated in their warranty; not in those exact words.

I did not ask about other LCD return policies though.

Viewsonic's policy can be found in the warranty section of their website; I think it allows four dead pixels which is kind of sad in itself but oh well.


Feel free to post about your experiences and the quality of the monitor and delivery of the monitor from TechOnWeb because like you said, they seem to be the cheapest on the web.


@xtknight:

you updated the main post yesterday stating that the VX2435wm comes with an DVI->HDMI adapter; doesn't it come with the actual cable not an adapter?

 

[DoctorM]

That's just semantics really.
It's a cable but it's also an adapter (since it has a DVI on one end and HDMI on the other).

I think he just wanted to make it clear that you didn't need to buy an additional cable to go with your $600 monitor. Espcially since both the first post and Prad.de's review said you had to buy one.


As far as return policies, I wouldn't be surprised if they had some flexibility, but they give you the 'party line' when you ask.

I'm just mad at Viewsonic in general. 4 dead pixels is unacceptable on anything but a cheap ass monitor. Australia and the UK get better warranties? What gives?

 

[redlinez33]

Well I took back the viewsonic and picked up a Samsung 245BW. It has 1 dead pixel (i have bad luck) at the top portion middle of the screen, but luckily it is a dark blue so even me with the picky eyes that I have doesnt notice it unless I look for it...... First impressions with this monitor are very positive. Bright, good color accuracy (compared to the w2207) and BIG..... I will do more testing of this unit tonight and post my opinions...... But so far its very positive

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I'm just mad at Viewsonic in general. 4 dead pixels is unacceptable on anything but a cheap ass monitor. Australia and the UK get better warranties? What gives?

Yeah, its not just the UK its all of Europe I think. Australia has a zero-dead for 30 days and UK/Europe has a no white/black (aka all three sub-pixels are dead) for first 30 days. Why do we in the North American region of the world get the shaft?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I went to costco today and they had a Samsung 245BW for $400. 24" would be nice and I noticed it was listed under your recommendations for hardcore gaming. So I assume its fast response, but any idea how the image quality is?? Or is it just a cheap 24" with good response time but not great quality??

Well, the primary issue is viewing angles. That will hamper the image quality a little since details will be sacrificed at every little angle. But it's not a huge deal for games. It's mainly a problem for image quality. Of course, if your setup doesn't allow you to see the whole TN panel then the viewing angles can present a problem too. TN panels are optimized to only be viewed straight-on.

 

[DoctorM]

I suspect what makes the HP panels look good is the glossy coating.
If you like them (like I do) they can appear to make a panel more vibrant while filtering ambient light that can make a panel appear more washed out.

 

[Mallomar]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Mallomar

But I really wanted the 2690 anyway (I just ordered the 2490 on impulse because it was such a deal -- I was going to give it to my husband if I didn't like it), because I'm a graphic designer and frequently have to adjust photos in Photoshop. So I'm convinced that the wide-gamut 2690 is the monitor of my dreams. My current CRT is very good, but it's too small (21"). I'm so tired of moving palettes around so I can see what I'm working on!

I'll probably go ahead and order the 2690 SV from one of the US resellers next week. And then relax and wait several weeks to get it!

OK. Actually, 21" CRTs reach a high resolution (maybe even higher) in some cases than 26" LCDs do (1920x1200). Are you sure you are getting a greater resolution? I assume you are just running the CRT lower than its max because of refresh rate or blurriness issues.

I was running the 21" CRT at 1280 x 1024 because when I run it at 1600 x 1200, the type was too small and I was too lazy to figure out how to fix it! I changed it to 1600 x 1200 last night and am going to see if I can make it work for me (until I get an LCD, that is).

I was trying out the higher resolution in InDesign and one problem is that the text labels in the palettes are too small -- I'll have to see if I can change that.

There are no issues with refresh rate or blurriness, AFAICS. BTW, AFAIK 1600 x 1200 is the highest resolution I can get with the CRT.

 

[redlinez33]

So far I am really liking the Samsung 245BW.. So much the HP is actually in its box ready to be taken back (I can still change my mind though!). I typically sit right in front of my monitor so viewing angle is not very important to me. As long as it doesnt invert or totally get unviewable when looking at it from the side, its good enough for me, and the Samsung meets my needs.

What is important to me is response time and overall subjective image quality in gaming. I don't have a calibrator so getting each monitor perfectly accurate is not possible.....

Compared to the HP, the Samsung 245BW seems to have more accurate default colors (could be wrong, but it seems that way). The HP is way to blue, but this can be easily fixed... The overall image quality for gaming is equal that if not BETTER than the HP w2207. I couldnt believe it. I also like the easy to change settings (like TEXT mode and GAMING mode) much better on the samsung.... Dynamic contrast just looks crazy in games. The response time on the Samsung seems to be just as good as the HP, well I cant tell a difference. Sometimes I actually think its more responsive, but thats probably not true.

Surfing the internet and using the desktop at 1920x1200 can be a little small, and changing the resolution to 1680x1050 makes the image look blurry. Thankfully gaming at 1680x1050 looks fine.

Overall, for the price, I think the Samsung 245BW is a good deal.....

 

[Trean]

Most browsers/editors have text size selections and also zoom features these days. Try some of those to alter the "smallness" more to your liking.

 

[yacoub]

So if I were to replace my 2007WFP S-IPS panel, which I've been pretty much completely satisfied with, and want to maintain S-IPS with a low response time and all that so I don't have to deal with input lag like the Dell PVA/MVA panels, and still want widescreen in 20-24" in size, what are my best options?

I've seen a few listed on flatpanels.dk but am not sure if they're good or not. LG L2300C has a 23 inch 16 ms S-IPS panel but saw one review and it had issues with burn-in or something.

 

[MonitorSearcher]

Just a quick question:

Does anyone know anything about the SyncMaster 961BF? I'm having a hard time finding any reviews about it.

 

[breckenridgej]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: breckenridgej
After reading through all of these great messages, I think I am getting closer to a decision... But, I still have some questions. This is my criteria:
- Looking for a 21-27" LCD - I'm not particularly hung up on the size. I'm using a 19" so I think anything > 21" would be fine.
- Primary use is image editing (I'm critical, but not a purist) and will also use it for some occasional gaming, surfing and movie watching.
- Price limit is probably around <$1500

I think it comes to balancing color accuracy with speed and size. Although I would appreciate an s-video input, its not a deal breaker. Given the low price difference between the NEC LCD2490WUXI and others I am considering, I think it comes out at top. This is my short-list with Amazon prices:

1. NEC LCD2490WUXI $1130
2. Samsung 275T $1060
3. NEC LCD2190UXP $900
4. HP LP2465 $790
5. Samsung 245T $880

Does this list make sense, any others you would consider (or not consider) given these criteria? Will the NEC LCD2490WUXI be fast enough for occasional gaming and/or movies? I had initially included the NEC 20WMGX2 but its a bit small and virtually impossible to find. I also eliminated the Viewsonic VX2435WM because of negative comments I had read on the glossy finish being temperamental with cleaning/calibration. In terms of value both the HP LP2465 and Samsung 245T seem like they are well priced and its not clear to me how badly I need the color accuracy associated with the LCD2490WUXI.

Thoughts, comments very much appreciated.

Jordan

Well your question is certainly a good one.

If you don't have a colorimeter around, the LCD24 is a good choice for you.

The 275T is a little tough to calibrate because of all its hue/saturation controls instead of straight R/G/B, but it passes all UGRA specs according to the prad review after painstaking calibration efforts.

Besides, if you're doing editing for the screen or web, the 275T is a bad idea. It's a wide gamut.

The LCD2190 isn't worth it when you can get the better S-IPS LCD24 for a little more.

The 245T is wide gamut, so it's as unsuitable as the 275T. The LP2465 has rather poor color accuracy without calibration, so it's not the best idea for photo editing. It pales compared to the LCD24, at least.

It looks like I've eliminated everything except the LCD24 if you're doing screen editing. If you're doing mainly print editing, then go for the LCD2690WUXi IMO. Although, the Samsung 275T is also suitable here and it would be better if you did more multimedia. The LCD26 is good if your primary use is print photo editing though.

I do some print stuff, but probably not enough to cater specifically for it - I probably play games or watch movies as often as I print. Most of my photo editing goes on the web and a few times a month I'll print something.

I have an EyeOne Display Two. Will I be able to use this to calibrate the LCD24?

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.

 

[leomax]

hello all,
Im new here and I have a lg l206wtq.I was playing with service menu.Accidentally changed the panel.I didnt quite note which panels it was default,but it was some lg panel.I tried resetting,but it doesn't change (ie if i set CMO and reset,its still CMO after reseting).
Also i have noted that ' 4:3 in wide' and 'white balance' option is now grayed out..
Any help would be appreciated.Thanks

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: anomaly218
Does anyone know a way to use dual monitors with two different cards?
More specifically, I have a Inspiron 530 that came with an x3100 integrated card, and I later installed a Radeon 850x pro that I use for the main monitor. I would use it for both, but it won't let me do certain things.... I would like it to be able to play movies and non-intense games at the same time.

This would be better suited to the Video forum, but it is definitely possible.

Originally posted by: Trean

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I pulled the trigger. I'll let you all know how I like the vx24 when it arrives... and I AM a stickler.

Where did you end up ordering it from?


@xtnight:

Circuit City has the FHD2400 on sale this week, just thought I would let you know if you want to put it in the OP; $499.99

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm...m/ccd/productDetail.do

This is a decent deal, for certain people I think, but it hardly qualifies as a hot deal. You can get a VA panel for just an extra $50 (HP LP2465, AR @ Newegg).

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Well I have had the viewsonic VX2255wmb sitting in front of me for 5 or so hours now, next to the hp w2207 to compare.............. There are pro and cons to both........ Here is my slightly above average consumer knowledge on monitors SUBJECTIVE opinion on both

viewing was done in a completely dark room. The HP w2207 I own is the Samsung panel.



VX2255wmb is a very elegant looking monitor, while the w2207 is very big and bulky. Both monitors can adjust vertically which is nice.

First thing I did was adjust the brightness and contrast on both monitors to what I thought was a decent setting for my liking. I then used a blank screen saver to see if it had any back light bleeding and how much, and also to see if there were any colorful dead pixels. Thankfully the Viewsonic had no dead pixels, but the HP had one right in the middle, oh well, time to move on. Both panels had slight backlight bleeding, but the HP had less.

Then I went into a game and started playing. Unreal Tournament 3 and Crysis. First thing I noticed was the colors were not as rich on the Viewsonic as on the HP. The viewsonic almost seemed washed out and I could not correct this with any settings on the unit itself. Maybe some calibration tool would help with this.. The HP w2207 picture seemed to be much more immersive.. Now which one was producing a more accurate image is beyond my ability to guess, but I prefered the HP.

There was this little blue rectangle of annoyance on the Viewsonic. The brightly lit power light that I do not believe you can turn off. Its bright, its annoying, and its definitely a negative. Why would they want to distract from the image with the bright light shining in your eyes constantly is beyond me......

Overall I have decided to take back the viewsonic and keep the HP..... The price difference is about $30, which is not very much considering how much I use this darn thing

If you decide to get the HP, make sure you get the samsung panel. The way to tell is outside the box it will tell you the REV of the product, you want one that begins with a S. The one that starts with an A sucks, I had it, its worse than the viewsonic........

Tomorrow I am going to exchange the viewsonic for a samsung 245BW...... Will update with my opinions on that

That's interesting. I do think the ViewSonic has more accurate colors but it may be less vibrant due to the matte screen. And actually the ViewSonic was supposed to have very little backlight bleeding. The w2207 being a lottery though doesn't make things easy.

Originally posted by: MonitorSearcher
Well, I got the SyncMaster 931C and while it looks nice in games, I'm not overly happy with how it displays movies. I'm not sure if I have it configured correctly because I couldn't find any profiles but I did try to follow the instructions in the first post.

You'll have to be more specific here. What about it makes it less suitable for movies than an ideal monitor, in your view? Are things too vibrant, too much noise, backlight bleeding, ghosting, lack of detail, ... ?

Originally posted by: Trean
TechOnWeb and PCConnection both responded to my email about their dead pixel policies. Both stated that they follow the Viewsonic dead pixel policy as stated in their warranty; not in those exact words.

I did not ask about other LCD return policies though.

Viewsonic's policy can be found in the warranty section of their website; I think it allows four dead pixels which is kind of sad in itself but oh well.


Feel free to post about your experiences and the quality of the monitor and delivery of the monitor from TechOnWeb because like you said, they seem to be the cheapest on the web.


@xtknight:

you updated the main post yesterday stating that the VX2435wm comes with an DVI->HDMI adapter; doesn't it come with the actual cable not an adapter?

Yeah I guess it's more of an adapter-cable. Reupdated as it was confusing.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
So far I am really liking the Samsung 245BW.. So much the HP is actually in its box ready to be taken back (I can still change my mind though!). I typically sit right in front of my monitor so viewing angle is not very important to me. As long as it doesnt invert or totally get unviewable when looking at it from the side, its good enough for me, and the Samsung meets my needs.

What is important to me is response time and overall subjective image quality in gaming. I don't have a calibrator so getting each monitor perfectly accurate is not possible.....

Compared to the HP, the Samsung 245BW seems to have more accurate default colors (could be wrong, but it seems that way). The HP is way to blue, but this can be easily fixed... The overall image quality for gaming is equal that if not BETTER than the HP w2207. I couldnt believe it. I also like the easy to change settings (like TEXT mode and GAMING mode) much better on the samsung.... Dynamic contrast just looks crazy in games. The response time on the Samsung seems to be just as good as the HP, well I cant tell a difference. Sometimes I actually think its more responsive, but thats probably not true.

Surfing the internet and using the desktop at 1920x1200 can be a little small, and changing the resolution to 1680x1050 makes the image look blurry. Thankfully gaming at 1680x1050 looks fine.

Overall, for the price, I think the Samsung 245BW is a good deal.....

Thanks. Your reviews have been quite helpful. I'll probably feel better about recommending the 245BW, as long as it's for direct-view (wrt. viewing angle) use.

Originally posted by: yacoub
So if I were to replace my 2007WFP S-IPS panel, which I've been pretty much completely satisfied with, and want to maintain S-IPS with a low response time and all that so I don't have to deal with input lag like the Dell PVA/MVA panels, and still want widescreen in 20-24" in size, what are my best options?

To put it nicely, you have very few options.

The NEC LCD2490WUXi will fulfill your response time needs but input lag will be about the same as the VA panels.

I don't even know of any other 20-24" widescreens that are consistently S-IPS besides the discontinued NEC 20WMGX2, 20.1" which is about the same as what you have already. The 23" S-IPS panels (Philips and Sony) have evaporated.

It's important to realize though that the main advantage of S-IPS at bigger sizes is not their lower input lag (which is not really true), but their viewing angle and color accuracy.

I've seen a few listed on flatpanels.dk but am not sure if they're good or not. LG L2300C has a 23 inch 16 ms S-IPS panel but saw one review and it had issues with burn-in or something.

That's besides the fact I can't even find any stores that sell the L2300C.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: MonitorSearcher
Just a quick question:

Does anyone know anything about the SyncMaster 961BF? I'm having a hard time finding any reviews about it.

Not sure. I can't even find it for sale here in the US. If I had to guess, it would be a good option. It has overdrive (response time acceleration) and it's standard gamut.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: breckenridgej
I do some print stuff, but probably not enough to cater specifically for it - I probably play games or watch movies as often as I print. Most of my photo editing goes on the web and a few times a month I'll print something.

Sounds like the LCD24 is appropriate.

I have an EyeOne Display Two. Will I be able to use this to calibrate the LCD24?

Thanks again for the help. Much appreciated.

Yes you will be able to calibrate the LCD24. But keep in mind you will need to purchase the $100 SVII (SpectraView II) software to adjust the internal LUT of the display, which is the best way to adjust the LCD24. Unless, that is, there is other software that can adjust the internal LUTs of the NECs but I have not seen any yet.

In the absence of SVII, you can still calibrate through software and it will come out looking fine for most use. I think the SVII feature is great to take advantage of though since you really get the most out of the monitor in terms of color detail. Software calibration will have to slightly curb the number of colors displayed, whereas the hardware calibration is simply an adjustment to the DAC that does not restrict the number of colors.

Basically how the internal hardware calibration works (AFAIK):

No software calibration should be applied. As the video card sends the monitor colors, the NEC upconverts these 8-bit values of gray to 12-bit (for each color channel) and then checks them against a 12-bit LUT (which is calibrated with the colorimeter). After the corrected values of color are found by the LUT (lookup table), the DAC (digital->analog converter) is adjusted electrically such that the proper voltage is sent to the LCs (liquid crystals). This allows adjustment at a 12-bit level with an 8-bit bit depth (256 shades of gray) per channel.

With software calibration you have only 8-bit adjustment! Which inevitably means that some colors are going to be sacrificed for others to be accurate. e.g. in the lookup table "green 127 should be green 128", but now green 128 (or x) doesn't really exist as a distinct tone. This will cause minor color fringing across the grayscale (especially in darker tones though).

If you're going to calibrate with software you should probably use Native gamma ("NON") and Native white point (in advanced menu of the NEC). EDIT: actually not sure if this is the best idea since NEC has some LUT adjustment possible thru OSD (on-screen display) already.

The SVII software does support the Eye One Display 2; purchasing the SVIIKit will not get you much else besides the colorimeter you already have.

You can get the SVIISoft (SpectraView II software) from this page: http://www.necdisplay.com/Prod...4de7-b644-bd7f0b7e6ece

 

[DoctorM]

Anyone hear anything about Viewsonics new VP2250wb?
It's suppose to be wide gamut. My guess is TN panel but it is in their pro line so maybe not.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: leomax
hello all,
Im new here and I have a lg l206wtq.I was playing with service menu.Accidentally changed the panel.I didnt quite note which panels it was default,but it was some lg panel.I tried resetting,but it doesn't change (ie if i set CMO and reset,its still CMO after reseting).
Also i have noted that ' 4:3 in wide' and 'white balance' option is now grayed out..
Any help would be appreciated.Thanks

Unless you notice any difference due to changing the 'panel' you probably didn't change anything. So there's not much to worry about there. You can after all just go back and change it to LPL, right?

When you say "4:3 in wide" and "white balance" are grayed out, this happened after you changed the panel or is this just another symptom of something else?

4:3 will only be visible when using a resolution lower than native, and "white balance" sounds like it could be a VGA-specific option.

 

[redlinez33]

Ya, the Samsung 245BW viewing angle isnt the greatest. It is worse than the w2207, but I have seen even worse. I would consider it probably AVERAGE for a TN panel. Which if you compared to a VA or a IPS panel would be well below average.

I have decided to keep the samsung and return the HP for sure. The size, and overall gaming experience is just to good to pass up. It also comes with a 3 year warranty vs a 1 year. My previous monitor was a samsung and I have a 40" samsung 1080P TV. Seems like I am a samsung fanboy :

The Samsung 245BW actually has less backlight bleeding than either the viewsonic or the w2207.

IMO the HP w2207 with the A panel (dont know exactly who makes it, but the REV starts with a 'A') should be avoided. Its below average quality compared to the Samsung panel you can get.

 

[pixelfreak]

New NEC 20WMGX2 are back on newegg for $459.99
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...2319&Tpk=NEC%2b20WMGX2

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: yacoub
So if I were to replace my 2007WFP S-IPS panel, which I've been pretty much completely satisfied with, and want to maintain S-IPS with a low response time and all that so I don't have to deal with input lag like the Dell PVA/MVA panels, and still want widescreen in 20-24" in size, what are my best options?

To put it nicely, you have very few options.

The NEC LCD2490WUXi will fulfill your response time needs but input lag will be about the same as the VA panels.

I don't even know of any other 20-24" widescreens that are consistently S-IPS besides the discontinued NEC 20WMGX2, 20.1" which is about the same as what you have already. The 23" S-IPS panels (Philips and Sony) have evaporated.

It's important to realize though that the main advantage of S-IPS at bigger sizes is not their lower input lag (which is not really true), but their viewing angle and color accuracy.

http://www.hazro.co.uk/home/index.html

Hazro is a new comer to the consumer market; they seem to specialize in S-IPS panels. I don't know any resellers in N.A. though, I believe they are based and currently only found in Europe but I could be wrong.

Here is a hardforum thread on the 25.5" - http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1247829

 

[dreydin]

ive taken a small break from my 2 month LCD buying/returning spree... but right now, im looking at resuming the hunt with either the 245BW, w2207 or the VX2255wmb. before i do though, do any of these have panel lotteries? i heard from redlinez33's brief review, that the w2207 reveals the panel identity on the outside of the box (ty for your recent reviews, btw) is this true? just look for the REV? and the good one begins with S, the bad, A?