[Retired] The LCD Thread

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DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
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0
New NEC 20WMGX2 are back on newegg for $459.99

Bwhahaha. The $100 rebate expired a few days ago too.
NOT a coincidence.

dreydin: I don't know if/think the w2408 has a panel lottery and I thought the picture was about the same or better than the w2207. I don't know how the gaming performance is, you'd have to go to prad.de and read the full review. $400 is not a bad price for a 24".
 

Trean

Member
Nov 18, 2007
77
0
0
DoctorM I told you that Viewsonic would issue another rebate for the VX2435wm; there is now another rebate (still $100) that expires Feb 2, 2008. So make sure you post about all your monitors problems, defections, and all its greatness!
 

newschool

Member
Jun 20, 2007
127
1
81
I was always putting away the wide LCDs because the resolution is too high to play games with a high FPS. But for the 19", the wide 1440x900 (1.296MP) is actually comparable with the non-wide 19" 1280x1024 (1.31MP).

I originally was going for the non-wide 19" LGs, they are great and look good. But now that I want a wide one for film viewing, pixel pitch and general look, LG wasnt delivering (check xbits labs).
Samsung was my other option but they are having problem with panels, your never sure wich one you get, it is a known issue.

But now LG has just released the L197WH, I will be the first to buy. 2msGTG, 16.7M colors, 5000:1 contrast (F-Engine) and HDMI.



xtknight you should check it out and add it to the recommanded gaming and multimedia monitors.

http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/l197wh.jhtml



peace all good 2008 year
 

HeavyB

Senior member
Oct 28, 2000
370
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0
Has the stuttering issue that seemed to plague the HP LP2465 monitor been resolved? My research on this monitor suggests that am early 2007 revision refresh has solved the problem, but I want to be certain before pulling the trigger. The $75 rebate on this monitor makes it an attractive choice for me, since I don't do FPS shooters and will be using it for video/image editing and a little WOW now and again. I have a perfectly good HDTV so I don't need the connectivity options more expensive competitors have. Also the 3 year warranty will be nice. Looks like 24" non TN panels might be becoming more scarce in the future, too.

Cheers,
HeavyB
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
0
0
Many monitors support scaling (internally). Read the reviews on prad.de to see how well a particular one does, but you should be able to play at lower than native resolution pretty well.

And you all correct me if I'm wrong, but even without scaling on a panel you should be able to run at multiples of the native resolution with minimal loss of quality (i.e. a 24" 1920x1200 panel should work without an internal scalar under 1440x900, 1280x800, 1120x700, 960x600, or whatever your videocard supports.)

Finally, contrary to the "loss of detail" argument against scaling, some tweaking sites call it free antialiasing (it's done in your monitor's hardware not on your videocard).
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
Originally posted by: HeavyB
Has the stuttering issue that seemed to plague the HP LP2465 monitor been resolved? My research on this monitor suggests that am early 2007 revision refresh has solved the problem, but I want to be certain before pulling the trigger. The $75 rebate on this monitor makes it an attractive choice for me, since I don't do FPS shooters and will be using it for video/image editing and a little WOW now and again. I have a perfectly good HDTV so I don't need the connectivity options more expensive competitors have. Also the 3 year warranty will be nice. Looks like 24" non TN panels might be becoming more scarce in the future, too.

Cheers,
HeavyB

I am pretty sure it has been fixed. It was first discovered by Maximum PC who contacted HP about it.

Most people are reporting that it has been fixed. I believe it was a video card interaction issue.

read more

If you get a faulty unit HP should be willing to exchange it, as they have said they are aware of the problem.
 

TempletonPeck

Member
Nov 9, 2007
99
0
0

You have the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) listed under the multimedia section int he first post, it's listed as an S-MVA.

I found a 20": ViewSonic VX2035WM, where I live, is it also similar to this monitor, but 20" instead of 24", or is it something entirely different. Mainly I want to know, is it a S-MVA panel, or TN.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: TempletonPeck

You have the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) listed under the multimedia section int he first post, it's listed as an S-MVA.

I found a 20": ViewSonic VX2035WM, where I live, is it also similar to this monitor, but 20" instead of 24", or is it something entirely different. Mainly I want to know, is it a S-MVA panel, or TN.

The VX2035WM is a TN panel, so it will have lower viewing angles and considerably lower color quality.
 

TempletonPeck

Member
Nov 9, 2007
99
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: TempletonPeck

You have the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) listed under the multimedia section int he first post, it's listed as an S-MVA.

I found a 20": ViewSonic VX2035WM, where I live, is it also similar to this monitor, but 20" instead of 24", or is it something entirely different. Mainly I want to know, is it a S-MVA panel, or TN.

The VX2035WM is a TN panel, so it will have lower viewing angles and considerably lower color quality.

Thanks, I won't be touching that one then.

Some consistency in model naming would be nice, you'd think if only the size # was changed it would be the same type of panel.

I'm glad I asked you and you knew.
 

Trean

Member
Nov 18, 2007
77
0
0
Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: TempletonPeck

You have the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) listed under the multimedia section int he first post, it's listed as an S-MVA.

I found a 20": ViewSonic VX2035WM, where I live, is it also similar to this monitor, but 20" instead of 24", or is it something entirely different. Mainly I want to know, is it a S-MVA panel, or TN.

The VX2035WM is a TN panel, so it will have lower viewing angles and considerably lower color quality.

Thanks, I won't be touching that one then.

Some consistency in model naming would be nice, you'd think if only the size # was changed it would be the same type of panel.

I'm glad I asked you and you knew.

VX just denotes a Viewsonic product line. You can check out their site to get descriptions of the product line and what they believe it covers.

Manufacturers are moving away from telling people what is in the monitor not towards; which is sadly the opposite of what consumers want. I mean overtly stating it, a lot of the time it is decipherable through serial number or some menu somewhere etc.


Edit: I think I am posting too much, I have to keep updating my bookmark so that it goes to the last page I have read/posted on.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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Originally posted by: DoctorM
Anyone hear anything about Viewsonics new VP2250wb?
It's suppose to be wide gamut. My guess is TN panel but it is in their pro line so maybe not.

It's actually 106% gamut. That might even indicate LED backlight although somehow I doubt it. It sounds like a spec of WG-CCFLs a bit inflated. Does look like a TN panel.
 

TempletonPeck

Member
Nov 9, 2007
99
0
0
Originally posted by: Trean
Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: TempletonPeck

You have the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) listed under the multimedia section int he first post, it's listed as an S-MVA.

I found a 20": ViewSonic VX2035WM, where I live, is it also similar to this monitor, but 20" instead of 24", or is it something entirely different. Mainly I want to know, is it a S-MVA panel, or TN.

The VX2035WM is a TN panel, so it will have lower viewing angles and considerably lower color quality.

Thanks, I won't be touching that one then.

Some consistency in model naming would be nice, you'd think if only the size # was changed it would be the same type of panel.

I'm glad I asked you and you knew.

VX just denotes a Viewsonic product line. You can check out their site to get descriptions of the product line and what they believe it covers.

Manufacturers are moving away from telling people what is in the monitor not towards; which is sadly the opposite of what consumers want. I mean overtly stating it, a lot of the time it is decipherable through serial number or some menu somewhere etc.


Edit: I think I am posting too much, I have to keep updating my bookmark so that it goes to the last page I have read/posted on.

Yes, I knew that much, but I figured since beyond the screen size, the rest of the model number matched, that being the "35WM", it would be a similar line of monitors.
 

leomax

Junior Member
Jan 2, 2008
2
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight

Unless you notice any difference due to changing the 'panel' you probably didn't change anything. So there's not much to worry about there. You can after all just go back and change it to LPL, right?

When you say "4:3 in wide" and "white balance" are grayed out, this happened after you changed the panel or is this just another symptom of something else?

4:3 will only be visible when using a resolution lower than native, and "white balance" sounds like it could be a VGA-specific option.

I can notice a slight change in colors,a bit warmer. but its ok,ill pass.
I can remember the original setting to be LPL,but not which LPL.

Yes i think,both the options have grayed out since i changed the panel.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3675/dsc01624ur1.jpg
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: leomax
Originally posted by: xtknight

Unless you notice any difference due to changing the 'panel' you probably didn't change anything. So there's not much to worry about there. You can after all just go back and change it to LPL, right?

When you say "4:3 in wide" and "white balance" are grayed out, this happened after you changed the panel or is this just another symptom of something else?

4:3 will only be visible when using a resolution lower than native, and "white balance" sounds like it could be a VGA-specific option.

I can notice a slight change in colors,a bit warmer. but its ok,ill pass.
I can remember the original setting to be LPL,but not which LPL.

Yes i think,both the options have grayed out since i changed the panel.

http://img112.imageshack.us/img112/3675/dsc01624ur1.jpg

I'm not sure what the panel would have to do with it, but unfortunately I don't know how to solve your problem either. You could try the different panel presets until you get the colors right? Or, adjust R/G/B components under USER color.
 

imported_jns

Junior Member
Jan 3, 2008
4
0
0
Hi.
I'm looking for a new monitor, and my major concern are photoediting in PS3.
(priceworthy, non-proffesional and not too expensive

"xtknight", when I red your recommendations in the beginning of this thread I couldn't find my first choice monitor - NEC LCD2070NX - and then I red at "X-bit Labs" that it was reputed(!?)
I've understood that it's an old monitor but is it really not a good one???
I would really like to hear your words about it, or anyone elses for that matter!

I'm also interested in the HP LP2065 but I've heard about the 'lottery' with the panels... whether its S-IPS or MVA... - any news/experiences/oppinions about that???

all answers are appreciated, thank you!

/jns
 

yacoub

Golden Member
May 24, 2005
1,991
14
81
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: yacoub
So if I were to replace my 2007WFP S-IPS panel, which I've been pretty much completely satisfied with, and want to maintain S-IPS with a low response time and all that so I don't have to deal with input lag like the Dell PVA/MVA panels, and still want widescreen in 20-24" in size, what are my best options?

To put it nicely, you have very few options.

The NEC LCD2490WUXi will fulfill your response time needs but input lag will be about the same as the VA panels.

I don't even know of any other 20-24" widescreens that are consistently S-IPS besides the discontinued NEC 20WMGX2, 20.1" which is about the same as what you have already. The 23" S-IPS panels (Philips and Sony) have evaporated.

It's important to realize though that the main advantage of S-IPS at bigger sizes is not their lower input lag (which is not really true), but their viewing angle and color accuracy.

Well except that my 2007WFP does not have noticeable input lag where as my friends' 2405 and 2407 had enough input lag that it bothered me and I would hate to use them in FPS gaming. (I could even sense it in Windows moving the cursor around the screen.)

So that's why I'm looking for S-IPS.

What's going on in the industry then if S-IPS is hard to find even though it's superior? Is there another new standard that's going to come out that's better than -VA panels that will offer low input lag, fast refresh rate, and the same excellent color accuracy and viewing angle of my S-IPS?
 

Amart

Member
Jan 17, 2007
111
0
0
I am looking for a monitor for gaming and design work (student level, color accuracy is desired but not critical).
Size: 19" 4:3 or, more likely 20" Widescreen 1600x1050, with the ~0.25 dot pitch. Not willing to go higher due to GPU (8800 GTS 320mb), and sitting distance.
Budget: $200-400 (I am on a budget, but can shift resources if the sacrifice is worth it)

The only store I can buy from is FRYS.com, because they are the only ones that have 100% 30 Day Return guarantee, so I can get a replacement, different model or refund in case I'm not satisfied (according to their sales over the phone, and what's listed in their return policy online).

All the local B&M chains require 15% restocking fee for any open box LCD, and some claim to be Final Sale only. I haven't tried smaller stores yet.
Most other online stores have shameless dead pixel return policy, 7 or more, and don't recognize other issues like image tearing.

I've talked xtknight and he suggested the HP w2007.

I went to see it at J&R (NYC) - took some time to calibrate since someone messed up its settings, but once I reset and tweaked it the image quality was great. The glossy screen was a problem for me, however, as darker images (common in games) resulted in too much of a reflection. I am used to some reflection from CRT, but this was higher.
The exterior design was also an annoyance - its one high-gloss box inside another, with ~1/4" space in between, perfect for collecting dust and being hard to clean.

The Samsung 206BW they had a much better exterior design, but apparently a bad roll in the panel lottery - tearing and color bleeding / jitter / flickering was highly visible on both static and moving images. The colors were acceptable for me on both, as I could calibrate it much like the HP.

Back home I went through the review links and the best so far was XBITLABS.com - xtknight please check out his format, especially things like RTC / Non-RTC specification and RTC-Error percentages.

Conclusion: I'm basically screwed.

Fry's has:
- LG 1960TR, but then I'll have to give up on design (its triangulblargh stand looks disgusting), and my minor preference for 20" W over its 19" 4:3.

- Samsung 206BW - I can live with the lottery and having to calibrate default color settings EXCEPT Image Tearing. If it shows the same tearing I saw at J&R it's going to be returned. It's RTC has some errors 15% average with 50% max, but can be turned off (making it just like a nonRTC 5ms B2B monitor)

- HP w2007 - big issue with glossy screen, no RTC option so some response lag, and minor gripes with exterior design

- LG 206WTQ-BF - according to XBitLabs the bigger 226WTQ has sub par color setup, worse then Samsung, and I have no other reliable in-depth reviews to go by so far. I also remember high RTC errors being mentioned, which is unacceptable, and likely affecting the 20" panel too. The new firmware supposedly reduced the RTC errors, but no new review to indicate to what extent. People report it's not noticeable, so I guess it's good. I can't be sure about color accuracy being good or bad - HP's w2007 is better then w2207, so perhaps the same situation applies here.
_____________

From reading XBitLabs reviews, there's also the ASUS MW201u that has good color accuracy for a TN panel, decent RTC setup, and slick design.
If Fry's had it I would have ordered it without a second thought. Except it's not sold by them or any other merchant I know. I'm trying to find it right now =(

I'll probably go with the LG 206WTQ from Fry's and get a calibration tool to ensure the accuracy is good.

I can also roll the dice with a Samsung and hope for one of the better panels ... or Fry's being honest about their 30 day guarantee.

The 2007 20" LCD monitor market and return policies are making me sad. >_>
 

DoctorM

Member
Jan 31, 2001
180
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0
Um, I'm troubled.
I was just doing some research on WideScreenGamingForum.com since this is my first wide display.
They have a list of wide panels and certain details.
They list the Viewsonic vx2435wm as a TN.

Can anyone confirm that they are just plain wrong?!
 

Trean

Member
Nov 18, 2007
77
0
0
Besides the widescreengamingforum I could not find a source that stood by their TN stance on the monitor. Apparently when the monitor was released they announced a 5ms response time or something like that and did not note whether it was BWB or GTG. Which lead to a few places assuming that it must be a TN panel and the viewing angles in the spec were just wrong.

Since then the response time has been clarified(now listed at 8ms) and all the reviews I have read have sworn by the great viewing angles; thus in my mind it can't be a TN panel. As for what panel is in the thing; the only consensus is that it is a VA panel. I don't have a reputable source as to what type. xtknight states its a S-MVA where the hardforum states its a P-MVA and a few other sites just list MVA without the prefix letter... so I guess its an MVA I don't know what the prefix letter even means.


Edit: Oh and reasoning on why WSGF.com has TN listed... well the only ones that can update it are admins or something otherwise it has to be suggested on the forums and that means someone has to buy it and be a participant on the forum... and who would buy a TN panel (going off their site) and then go to viewsonic and see 8ms response time!
 

AtmosFear

Junior Member
Mar 18, 2001
11
0
0
Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me.. I've been using a Sony Trinitron Multiscan G400 (19" CRT display) for the past 8 or so years and it's been great, although within the past year or so, it's started to die slowly and needs to be replaced.

Now that LCD's have become the standard, I've been trying to find a replacement for my CRT, but I was having a really difficult time deciding between all the different vendors and models. I'm glad I finally happened upon this thread, since I really had no idea where to even start. Anyway, I need a monitor mainly for computer programming, with a little bit of photoshop work (if I need to quickly create a logo or button for a website), no gaming whatsoever (well, maybe MAME, but that's rare) and I'd like to be able to watch movies, although it's not a huge deal, just a nice to have. So my main focus is on viewing code, text and documents. I'd like a larger monitor than what I have now, so I've been looking at 22 and 24 inch screens, but I think bigger is better (unless there's a reason that I should choose 22 over 24)

I was looking at the following from the recommendation guide:

24": Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC, 1920x1200 (16:10)

it's within my budget (around $600) which is good, but the note regarding ghosting worried me a little bit. I guess I probably wouldn't be affected since I won't be using this for games, but I was just wondering if maybe Dell has come out with a revision since this guide was put together, or if there might be a better monitor for programming work. Also wanted to know if a 24 inch monitor is too large for computer programming work, or if it'll cause eye strain since the native resolution is pretty high (I take it that it's best to leave an LCD at its native resolution - I'm used to running my CRT at whatever resolution provides the best display of text without killing my eyes. I think at work I run a 21 inch Trinitron CRT at 1600x1200 without an issue)

Dell also has the following 24" monitor which is $369 (verus $599 for the UltraSharp 2407WFP) and as far as I can tell, the main difference is the fact that the 2407WFP has a 6 in 1 card reader and more inputs (RGB, S-Video, composite video, component video)

Dell E248WFP 24'' Widescreen LCD Monitor

I've also heard some good things about Samsung monitors, but I'm not really sure which ones I should be considering.. I know to stay away from the 226BW, but is the 245BW 24" good?

So if anyone can give me some advice or suggestions, I'd really appreciate it, since I'm really quite lost at the moment. Thanks!
 

ClockHound

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,108
214
106
Originally posted by: DoctorM
Um, I'm troubled.
I was just doing some research on WideScreenGamingForum.com since this is my first wide display.
They have a list of wide panels and certain details.
They list the Viewsonic vx2435wm as a TN.

Can anyone confirm that they are just plain wrong?!

Not plainly wrong, but close. Prad says MVA:
http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen3588.html

TFTCentral says: 24"WS Chi Mei Optoelectronics S-MVA (M240J1)
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/se...=VX2435wm&select=model

Digitalversus says MVA too. Getting close to unanimous.
A 176 degree MVA view

And Flatpanels.dk says: ViewSonic VX2435wm (widescreen) has a 24 inch 5 ms (g2g) S-MVA (CMO M240J1) panel.
http://www.flatpanels.dk/panels.php

4 for 4. They are just plain wrong!

No more troubles. Other than it's not a 2490uxi.
 

ClockHound

Golden Member
Nov 27, 2007
1,108
214
106
Originally posted by: AtmosFear
Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me.. I've been using a Sony Trinitron Multiscan G400 (19" CRT display) for the past 8 or so years and it's been great, although within the past year or so, it's started to die slowly and needs to be replaced.

I just moved from a similar setup, two 19" Trinitrons to the formerly xt recommended 24" BenQ. My main usage is coding desktop apps and website design. And some video editing, DAW and photo editing. It is a huge difference in workspace for coding. Vast even. Great for toolbars and debug windows and widget windows and more toolbars. But the default brightness is brutal. Once turned down < 30, sometimes to 0, it is not too bad. However, I can't do black text on white backgrounds in the editor anymore. Sometimes it feels like a 260 sq. in. fluorescent tanning booth. :shocked: Wish those Anandtech designers used some of these new stupid bright LCDs, then we'd see some darker themes around here. The default brightness level is great for watching movies tho. From across the street.

If it were me, I'd get the 8-bit color PVA Dell 2407WFP-HC rather than the 6 bit TN E248. Some sRGB purists might object to the 2407WFP-HC for web photo work since it's a wide gamut unit. Not a big deal tho after calibration. xt might comment further. The wide gamut will have no effect on your coding. It'll still have the normal gamut of bugs.

I would not buy any TN based screen without a test drive. I spent sometime with the 245BW and sadly discovered that I couldn't live with the limited vertical viewing angle of its TN panel. Good luck on your search!

 
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