[Retired] The LCD Thread

[DoctorM]

Is there anyway to tell what panel was used once you have an LCD (short of opening it up)?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: dreydin
ive taken a small break from my 2 month LCD buying/returning spree... but right now, im looking at resuming the hunt with either the 245BW, w2207 or the VX2255wmb. before i do though, do any of these have panel lotteries? i heard from redlinez33's brief review, that the w2207 reveals the panel identity on the outside of the box (ty for your recent reviews, btw) is this true? just look for the REV? and the good one begins with S, the bad, A?

I'm not sure exactly, but there's more info here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showt....php?t=1179531&page=34

But many people are fine with the LPL/Innolux panels.

Originally posted by: newschool
I was always putting away the wide LCDs because the resolution is too high to play games with a high FPS. But for the 19", the wide 1440x900 (1.296MP) is actually comparable with the non-wide 19" 1280x1024 (1.31MP).

I originally was going for the non-wide 19" LGs, they are great and look good. But now that I want a wide one for film viewing, pixel pitch and general look, LG wasnt delivering (check xbits labs).
Samsung was my other option but they are having problem with panels, your never sure wich one you get, it is a known issue.

But now LG has just released the L197WH, I will be the first to buy. 2msGTG, 16.7M colors, 5000:1 contrast (F-Engine) and HDMI.



xtknight you should check it out and add it to the recommanded gaming and multimedia monitors.

http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/l197wh.jhtml



peace all good 2008 year

Thanks for the insight. I will probably add it but only after it has been reviewed by X-Bit or another reliable source.

Originally posted by: DoctorM
Many monitors support scaling (internally). Read the reviews on prad.de to see how well a particular one does, but you should be able to play at lower than native resolution pretty well.

And you all correct me if I'm wrong, but even without scaling on a panel you should be able to run at multiples of the native resolution with minimal loss of quality (i.e. a 24" 1920x1200 panel should work without an internal scalar under 1440x900, 1280x800, 1120x700, 960x600, or whatever your videocard supports.)

Finally, contrary to the "loss of detail" argument against scaling, some tweaking sites call it free antialiasing (it's done in your monitor's hardware not on your videocard).

Even scaling at "multiples" resolutions causes significant loss of quality to most peoples' eyes (blurring).

This is actually the opposite of antialiasing, because it's taking a low res and trying to make a high res image out of it. With antialiasing, adjacent pixels are blended to form a low res image from a high res one.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Trean
doesn't wm simply mean widescreen monitor?

Widescreen and multimedia, I thought.

Originally posted by: jns
Hi.
I'm looking for a new monitor, and my major concern are photoediting in PS3.
(priceworthy, non-proffesional and not too expensive

"xtknight", when I red your recommendations in the beginning of this thread I couldn't find my first choice monitor - NEC LCD2070NX - and then I red at "X-bit Labs" that it was reputed(!?)
I've understood that it's an old monitor but is it really not a good one???
I would really like to hear your words about it, or anyone elses for that matter!

X-Bit's review is here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../display/20inch_3.html

I remember reading another review that didn't seem to like the LCD2070NX at all, but it could have been an older rev.

Thread here: http://forums.dpreview.com/for...=1004&message=26250924

It has a pretty slow response time, but it's good for photo work, apparently. I might consider adding this. I was put off earlier because of the slow response time and back then I didn't even have a prosumer photo editing section.

I'm also interested in the HP LP2065 but I've heard about the 'lottery' with the panels... whether its S-IPS or MVA... - any news/experiences/oppinions about that???

all answers are appreciated, thank you!

/jns

This thread was started a year ago but it has info: http://www.hardforum.com/showt...62417&highlight=lp2065

A lot of the people have been receiving S-IPS panels lately, but that's the only news that I can see.

I'm really not sure how the LP2065's AMVA panel compares to the LCD2070NX. If I had to guess, both of them would be pretty decent with photography.

But the best way to make sure of that is to get a colorimeter. Even the Huey Pro is sufficient but make sure it's the Pro version. After calibration, almost any VA or IPS should be quite good for color work.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: yacoub
Well except that my 2007WFP does not have noticeable input lag where as my friends' 2405 and 2407 had enough input lag that it bothered me and I would hate to use them in FPS gaming. (I could even sense it in Windows moving the cursor around the screen.)

So that's why I'm looking for S-IPS.

What's going on in the industry then if S-IPS is hard to find even though it's superior? Is there another new standard that's going to come out that's better than -VA panels that will offer low input lag, fast refresh rate, and the same excellent color accuracy and viewing angle of my S-IPS?

This really has to do with the model itself not the panel. My 25.5" S-IPS has from two to four frames of input lag. TNs always seem to have good performance, for whatever reason. But in the bigger sizes, IPS isn't always better, except for the Dell 3007WFP-HC which does seem to have low input lag. The 305T doesn't have that much more lag, though. Seems like it might have something to do with dot pitch, but that's the only correlation I can see.

The monitor industry is ditching S-IPS because,
a) it is hard or expensive to produce
b) most consumers don't care or notice the difference between an IPS and a VA panel or even TN
c) they are focusing their efforts on improving TN panels?
d) black levels aren't as good as VA or TN

It is still widespread in the TV industry because of its wide viewing angles. Even then, VA has wide angles too. TNs pretty much do not exist in anything over 32".

 

[dreydin]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: dreydin
ive taken a small break from my 2 month LCD buying/returning spree... but right now, im looking at resuming the hunt with either the 245BW, w2207 or the VX2255wmb. before i do though, do any of these have panel lotteries? i heard from redlinez33's brief review, that the w2207 reveals the panel identity on the outside of the box (ty for your recent reviews, btw) is this true? just look for the REV? and the good one begins with S, the bad, A?

I'm not sure exactly, but there's more info here:

http://www.hardforum.com/showt....php?t=1179531&page=34

But many people are fine with the LPL/Innolux panels.

ok, just read up on the w2207 and i think im gonna give it a shot, but im starting to notice that the 22 department is vastly inferior to the 24/20s who are above and below it.. can you suggest a few LCDs in the 20s and 24s for casual gaming and internet browsing? specifically speaking, ones of high quality!

 

[Jephph]

Hi. I've been looking at some monitors trying to find a really nice one for my wife. She does retouching at a photo studio. I noticed in your "Photo" section, you list first a monitor with 72% (or somewhere around there) color gamut.
Wouldn't the NEC MultiSync LCD2180WG-LED with over 100% color gamut be a better choice for the number 1 spot? I know it's pretty pricey... Is that why it's not on the list, or is there a different reason? Thanks.

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Trean
doesn't wm simply mean widescreen monitor?

Widescreen and multimedia, I thought.

That makes just as much if not more sense.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Jephph
Hi. I've been looking at some monitors trying to find a really nice one for my wife. She does retouching at a photo studio. I noticed in your "Photo" section, you list first a monitor with 72% (or somewhere around there) color gamut.
Wouldn't the NEC MultiSync LCD2180WG-LED with over 100% color gamut be a better choice for the number 1 spot? I know it's pretty pricey... Is that why it's not on the list, or is there a different reason? Thanks.

It has a very high gamut, so it won't display sRGB images as well as a native 72%-gamut LCD like the NEC LCD2490WUXi. The LCD2180's bit depth is still 8-bit.

You should only get the -LED if you use the Adobe RGB or a larger space, IMO. Otherwise, things will seem too vibrant even if the gamma curve is accurate.

Actually last time I checked it was $6,000 but it has come down a lot. I still believe it belongs in the print section (Adobe RGB/larger) though.

It certainly is great for print matching and it should be used instead of LCDs like the LCD2690WUXi. The LCD2180WG-LED LCD is also called the SpectraView Reference 21.

Here's the PRAD review: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...-led.html#Introduction

You should seek for opinions from dpreview or other photo sites about a huge purchase like this. You also need a specialized calibrator (available from NEC) for calibrating the LCD2180WG-LED.

 

[DoctorM]

I apologize ahead of time for my lack of knowledge, I can only tell you what I see.
I received my Viewsonic vx2435wm today. For those keeping track I ordered it Sunday evening from TechOnWeb and received it this today (Friday) even with New Years in between.
My only complaint with them was that it was shipped in the original box. Which means not even a piece of tape to hold the lid closed.
If someone wanted to steal the cables off the top of the box in transit, they were fair game.

The monitor:
You know 24" looks so much smaller at the store.
I looked long and hard, and I can't find one bad pixel on this immense piece of real estate. That's a relief.

Cables: Power, 1/8" stereo audio cable, VGA-VGA and a DVI-HDMI.
Make sure you have the install disk since there doesn't seem to be drivers for this panel in Viewsonic's driver bundles online.

I started out on the default settings and soon felt like I was sitting in a spotlight. I used some of the OptiColor profiles and found the last few seemed the nicest.

One review I read said that after calibrating the monitor they found the Game Mode to be almost the same as what they tweaked up themselves. I believe this was a mistake.
Although you can only adjust things like Brightness and Contrast with Opticolor on standard, the other Opticolor modes are extrapolated from that.

Meaning I turned my Brightness from 100 to 50% and all the OptiColor modes are softer, not just Standard.
It also means that if you don't like how bright a preferred mode is you have to switch back to Standard, adjust, and then set it back to the profile you want.

I will admit to a mild color blindness, and have no equipment to adjust the colors.
Still I found the colors to be very nice. The Vivid setting, while probably inaccurate is very pleasing.
The Portrait and Scenery settings are probably more accurate, but the colors seem a bit duller. For now I have it set to Scenery (and 30% brightness).

Backlight Bleeding: Um... I just don't see it. About a year ago I returned 3 NEC panels 90gx2 (I think) and an LG. The bleeding made me crazy.
If this panel has any I just can't tell. The panels seems nicely uniform.

Viewing angles are so much better than the TN's I had been looking at and I can't believe I was considering them.

Gaming: My system is a bit old. An Athlon 3200+ (32-bit) and a x850 XT PE video card.
Still I cranked up Half-Life 2 and Tomb Raider Anniversary to their full graphic settings at 1920x1200 and was in heaven.
There is some mild ghosting which frankly looks almost like motion blur... which more modern games are trying desperately to add anyway. It was not intrusive or annoying to me in the least.

One review complained of a noisy backlight. If I put my ear near the back I can hear it, but soon as I move a foot or two off my system fans (set on low speed) are louder so it's pointless to even discuss it.

My only complaint is that it's huge, and conspicuously indulgent.
I don't know what else to say. Any questions?+

Edit: I forgot to mention that it's a concern to some that there is no ability to raise/lower this display. The level it's at is fine for me, and it's so large that angling it up or down seems to adjust for most heights relatively well.

Edit2: I'm sure it's common for LCDs but I am surprised that when scrolling white text on black that there is odd grey flicker to the text. I'm sure this is the same effect that causes ghosting in games, but I wasn't expecting it.
I guess I'll get use to it.

 

[imported_jns]

thanks xknight!

I talked to a HP-retailer yeasterday and he couldn't say anything about the panels, and yes I've seen the thread you linked... still seems like a lottery... pretty good odds though.

Funny thing with the thread about NEC 2070NX from dp-review - it was mine

I'm still into the 2070NX but it seem hard to get... no retailers (here in sweden) got it in stock and they don't know when to get it... so, now I've got my eyes on the NEC 2090UXi too.

Do you/anyone think the 2090UXi is worth the extra money over the 2070NX???

 

[cboath]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I apologize ahead of time for my lack of knowledge, I can only tell you what I see.
I received my Viewsonic vx2435wm today. For those keeping track I ordered it Sunday evening from TechOnWeb and received it this today (Friday) even with New Years in between.
My only complaint with them was that it was shipped in the original box. Which means not even a piece of tape to hold the lid closed.
If someone wanted to steal the cables off the top of the box in transit, they were fair game.

The monitor:
You know 24" looks so much smaller at the store.
I looked long and hard, and I can't find one bad pixel on this immense piece of real estate. That's a relief.

Cables: Power, 1/8" stereo audio cable, VGA-VGA and a DVI-HDMI.
Make sure you have the install disk since there doesn't seem to be drivers for this panel in Viewsonic's driver bundles online.

I started out on the default settings and soon felt like I was sitting in a spotlight. I used some of the OptiColor profiles and found the last few seemed the nicest.

One review I read said that after calibrating the monitor they found the Game Mode to be almost the same as what they tweaked up themselves. I believe this was a mistake.
Although you can only adjust things like Brightness and Contrast with Opticolor on standard, the other Opticolor modes are extrapolated from that.

Meaning I turned my Brightness from 100 to 50% and all the OptiColor modes are softer, not just Standard.
It also means that if you don't like how bright a preferred mode is you have to switch back to Standard, adjust, and then set it back to the profile you want.

I will admit to a mild color blindness, and have no equipment to adjust the colors.
Still I found the colors to be very nice. The Vivid setting, while probably inaccurate is very pleasing.
The Portrait and Scenery settings are probably more accurate, but the colors seem a bit duller. For now I have it set to Scenery (and 30% brightness).

Backlight Bleeding: Um... I just don't see it. About a year ago I returned 3 NEC panels 90gx2 (I think) and an LG. The bleeding made me crazy.
If this panel has any I just can't tell. The panels seems nicely uniform.

Viewing angles are so much better than the TN's I had been looking at and I can't believe I was considering them.

Gaming: My system is a bit old. An Athlon 3200+ (32-bit) and a x850 XT PE video card.
Still I cranked up Half-Life 2 and Tomb Raider Anniversary to their full graphic settings at 1920x1200 and was in heaven.
There is some mild ghosting which frankly looks almost like motion blur... which more modern games are trying desperately to add anyway. It was not intrusive or annoying to me in the least.

One review complained of a noisy backlight. If I put my ear near the back I can hear it, but soon as I move a foot or two off my system fans (set on low speed) are louder so it's pointless to even discuss it.

My only complaint is that it's huge, and conspicuously indulgent.
I don't know what else to say. Any questions?+

Edit: I forgot to mention that it's a concern to some that there is no ability to raise/lower this display. The level it's at is fine for me, and it's so large that angling it up or down seems to adjust for most heights relatively well.

Edit2: I'm sure it's common for LCDs but I am surprised that when scrolling white text on black that there is odd grey flicker to the text. I'm sure this is the same effect that causes ghosting in games, but I wasn't expecting it.
I guess I'll get use to it.

Thanks for the great review! I've been thinking of one of these (along with the Benq and the 245b) and this helps a lot. All things being equal, i think i'd go for the Benq, but the viewsonic having the 100 rebate puts it way out ahead unless anyone knows if the benq is ever going to be on sale or anything

 

[DoctorM]

An update. I'm now down to 30% Brightness... You can really go a bit nuts with LCDs the first time you use them since they are amazingly bright.
But afterwards you look all :Q

Also I used this site http://www.bryce-alive.net/calibrate/ to test the OptiColor profiles.
Standard seems to be the closest to accurate using that method (and maybe game mode).

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

Well, I pulled the trigger last week, and ordered the dell 3007wfp-hc. I got an email saying it would be back-ordered until 1/9/08. But then they ended up shipping it overnight on the 3rd, so it arrived yesterday, a week early! :Q

Plugged it in last night, and WOW! It's H U G E !!! The colors do look off, so far the reds are the worst color. I was going to order a calibration suite to correct the colors, but I thought I had a week before it came, whoops.

Fired up Call of Duty last night, and it was great. My 8800GT ran it (and Gears of War) fine so far, no frame rate problems yet. And everything is so big, it's great!

So anyone have a recommendation for calibration software? I am thinking of maybe the Eye One, or perhaps the Coloreyes software with a puck. Any thoughts?

 

[C Zoui]

Thank you for your efforts, xtknight. This is the best LCD resource I have encountered on the internet.

I'm trying to find a suitable monitor for my multimedia needs, including photo processing, gaming, HD movie viewing, and spreadsheet use. My ideal specs are:

24" (given my viewing environment, the ideal size for movies in particular), PVA/MVA/IPS (for better color reproduction and viewing angles), HDCP (for the HD-DVD/BD drive that will eventually be purchased, and possibly HD cable tv content), 1:1 (for 1080p with black bars and games at less than 1920x1200 with black bars instead 4:3 or fill scaling), medium image delay or lower, and under $600 AR.

Unfortunately, my options appear to be quite limited, if not non-existent.

With the exception of the high image lag, the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) fits the above criteria. This is one rare instance, however, when I feel compelled to veto a unit based on aesthetics alone. I find it hideously ugly; the built-in speakers extend its profile unnecessarily, but worse still is the 'high-gloss, piano-black' finish, a reflective eyesore that screams faux-elegance. I know beggars can't be choosers, and there appears to be few reliably-reviewed monitors that meet my criteria, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

I could probably settle for the marginally high (40ms) image delay of the 24": HP LP2465, 1920x1200 (16:10), but it lacks HDCP.

Having exhausted all the 24" choices in the recommended multimedia section of this thread that fit my criteria, perhaps you are thinking, "What about the 24": Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC, 1920x1200 (16:10)? It's only 69 dollars more than your max budget, and it performs reasonably well with movies." It doesn't, however, appear up to snuff for gaming.

The better question for me to ask appears to be what new monitors are coming that will fight my criteria, and when are they coming?

Finally, I'd like to inquire about the DoubleSight DS-245W. It appears to meet all of my requirements except the image lag that I cannot determine.

Edit: I forgot to mention, the 19": LG Flatron L1970HR, 1280x1024 (5:4) link to Circuit City is no longer valid. The 19": LG Flatron L1960TR, 1280x1024 (5:4), meanwhile, has gone down in price from 270 to 230 dollars at CompUSA.

 

[DoctorM]

I'm not sure what you see about the vx2435wm that makes the 'speakers extend its profile'. You can hardly see the things.

As far as the piano black... it's a matter of taste, but almost all Viewsonic panels are going that way.

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I'm not sure what you see about the vx2435wm that makes the 'speakers extend its profile'. You can hardly see the things.

As far as the piano black... it's a matter of taste, but almost all Viewsonic panels are going that way.

hey hey! got some pics of your new monitor?

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: C Zoui
Thank you for your efforts, xtknight. This is the best LCD resource I have encountered on the internet.

I'm trying to find a suitable monitor for my multimedia needs, including photo processing, gaming, HD movie viewing, and spreadsheet use. My ideal specs are:

24" (given my viewing environment, the ideal size for movies in particular), PVA/MVA/IPS (for better color reproduction and viewing angles), HDCP (for the HD-DVD/BD drive that will eventually be purchased, and possibly HD cable tv content), 1:1 (for 1080p with black bars and games at less than 1920x1200 with black bars instead 4:3 or fill scaling), medium image delay or lower, and under $600 AR.

Unfortunately, my options appear to be quite limited, if not non-existent.

With the exception of the high image lag, the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) fits the above criteria. This is one rare instance, however, when I feel compelled to veto a unit based on aesthetics alone. I find it hideously ugly; the built-in speakers extend its profile unnecessarily, but worse still is the 'high-gloss, piano-black' finish, a reflective eyesore that screams faux-elegance. I know beggars can't be choosers, and there appears to be few reliably-reviewed monitors that meet my criteria, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

I could probably settle for the marginally high (40ms) image delay of the 24": HP LP2465, 1920x1200 (16:10), but it lacks HDCP.

Having exhausted all the 24" choices in the recommended multimedia section of this thread that fit my criteria, perhaps you are thinking, "What about the 24": Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC, 1920x1200 (16:10)? It's only 69 dollars more than your max budget, and it performs reasonably well with movies." It doesn't, however, appear up to snuff for gaming.

The better question for me to ask appears to be what new monitors are coming that will fight my criteria, and when are they coming?

Finally, I'd like to inquire about the DoubleSight DS-245W. It appears to meet all of my requirements except the image lag that I cannot determine.

Edit: I forgot to mention, the 19": LG Flatron L1970HR, 1280x1024 (5:4) link to Circuit City is no longer valid. The 19": LG Flatron L1960TR, 1280x1024 (5:4), meanwhile, has gone down in price from 270 to 230 dollars at CompUSA.

You might want to look into the BenQ FP241w. Although NCIX.com has them in stock now, they have stated that BenQ is pulling the product from North America. So the remaining units at NA resellers seem to be all that we will get if you are on this side of the pond. This panel has had noted blackout issues where the screen shuts off for 1-2 seconds and then comes back on; it seems to be with certain graphics cards and not others.

xtnight will probably have some other suggestions for you too

hey you could always look into the Westinghouse 37" 1080p television monitor

 

[cboath]

xtknight,

Amazing work on this thread and the guide. I've been deep into selecting a panel for a couple weeks now, and i *think* i'm getting close, there's just so much info and so many panels to look at.

My issue in selecting is that, unlike what you lay out in the guide, I don't do one thing primarily with my system. It's probably equal parts 3D modeling, Architectural design, web design, browsing, and gaming.

Given that, I've narrowed it down to three choices (for the time being )
Benq FP241W
Viewsonic VX2435WM
Samsung 245b (maybe T?)

My issues with each are as follows:

Benq, if the above report is right and they get pulled from NA, then the price will never go down, and frankly $650 is kinda steep for me. I thought i found a great deal at ncix for 550. In the end, with the 0 dead pixel deal and shipping, it's still over 600.

The viewsonic just got a pretty good review a few posts above this, and it has a 100 rebate offer. However, there are limit first hand use reviews. 15 newegg and the various magazine articles. The one in particular said if you're going to spend this much you might as well get the Dell 2407 or Benq. On Dell's site, theirs is 700 and the Benq will be 650, and you can get the viewsonic for 550AR. A question I do have is, with the limited info on this, how did it get rated so highly in the recommendations in the guide? Have you or someone you know used it? I'm curious.

Lastly, with the Samsung, it's a TN panel. I saw it at a local BB and thought it quite nice, even though it was a foot or two above eye level. I did tilt it down a bit (doesn't tilt down too much) but it was far from a perpendicular view. Unfortunately the BB didn't really have any better panels to compare it to, they had a bunch of 24" TN's on display.

Combining everything I do, would any monitor rate above the best? And, is the benq that much better than the viewsonic to make up a 100 price difference?

Thanks!

 

[Trean]

There is also a viewsonic wall and desk adjustment attachment. It is basically an arm, the desk on mounts/clamps on to the desk. This would help with the lack of height adjustment and tilting in regards to the Viewsonic VX2435wm.

Dell.com offers a no hassle 30 day return policy I think. Basically you can buy any of the monitors from them and just return it if you don't like it, this is what I have been told. I would verify the policy some how if I were you before purchasing from them.

 

[gwilly]

I'm probably in over my head on this forum but I'm looking to improve my color management process between my laptop and and printer. I use Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 for photo editing. I have a Toshiba A105 - S4364 laptop with a NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 - PCI Express video.

I'd like to add a second monitor to improve the color management versus using the laptop screen. The video card only has VGA, not DVI and as I have read thru parts of this forum and Dpreview I understand I would want to move to a IPS panel which appears to have DVI connection. I was looking to spend betwee $500 and $750 for the second monitor.

How much image quality would I lose using a VGA connection with an IPS panel monitor? Is replacing my video card with a different card that has DVI connectivity be an option? Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks in adance for respnses.

 

[has33]

Sup ppl...I went through 100s of search results & numerous forums in the last 10 days & abt 20 pages of this thread but still haven't found an answer. I m just a day away 4m purchasing a monitor and all my search tells me that this is the best place 2 post my question.

So here it goes...I m 4m Bombay, India & we are the deprived few, as we hardly ve much choices when it come to PC parts. Most of my stuff [E6750 @ 4GHz (3.6GHz 24x7) on ASUS Blitz formula SE watercooled with PA120.3 RAD, nozzelled D-TEK fuzion 6x120mm Sunons, MCP655, etc; 8800GT cooled with HR-03GT; 4x1GB crucial tracers cooled by OCZ XTC; Antec TruePower Trio; etc] has been imported 4m the US but stuff like Monitors cannot be imported cause of the obious.

The limited choices we ve are Samsung, LG, Viewsonic & recently Dell. But not the full series of the mentioned brand of monitors. Like non of the 24" were launched by Samsung, Viewsonic has plans 2 release the VX2435wm but only next month & LG L245WP costs abt Rs.33K which is $825 US !!!

The best options are 4m Dell but not the 2407WFP/HC as they ve already been discontinued. They ve the TN panelled E248WFP for $500 US, SP2208WFP for $400, UltraSharp2208WFP for $365 & the 2007WFP for $485 but with the panel lottrey.
T
he 24" from LG (L245WP) is out of my Budget & there is no other 24" with S-PVA/MVA panel !!!

Among the available 22", the LG L226BQT is for $340 & Samsungs 226BW is for $525 with the panel lottery.

I don't mind getting the 2007WFP but the panel lottrey is scary & we don't ve NEC/Philips here. Also, I don't know how much the 16msec responce time effects gaming & how the 1080p movies would look on it.

My requirement:

I don't game everyday but I'm still a hardcore gamer (I like 2 play Crysis, COD 4, MOH Airborne, etc at highest settings & want them to be over 25FPS). I ve my 8800GT OCed to 740-core/18000-shader/2000-memory for gaming, through the volt mod & clock it even higher for Benching.

I use my PC for movies as well ( don't ve a TV ) for say 25% of the time spent on the PC & most are of 720x480 res but some are 1080p.

More than 50% of my PC usage is web browsing as I moderate a few forums which requires a lot of browsing.

And say 5% usage is rendering (movies/video) & editing (pics/sigs).

Question:

Out of the options I ve the only 24" that fits my budget of abt $550 US is the E248WFP but I couldn't find any reviews and only know (not certianly) that they use LM240WU3(TN) panel. Now I don't care that much if its a TN as m not much into photo editing but I m really bothered abt the viewing angle of such a large screen & I'd hate to watch a HD movie in washed out colours But I was really hoping 2 go 8-bit & full HD !!!

The SP2208 with 2ms responce time & true colour/true contrast sounds very sweet in the specs but...specially when its so cheap with 5yrs warranty but don't know how true they are or what that actually means in realtime performance as there aren't any proffessional reviews/comparision. Its left me in doubts if the LG's L226BTQ with 5000:1 ratio & 2ms responce time with only 3 yrs warranty would still be any better :S

And abt the Ultrasharp 2208WFP which is cheaper than Glossy SP2208WFP, according to DELL-ChrisM, Dell representative 4m dell community support forums:
They both use TN Film panels.
Ultrasharp in this case means height adjustable and swivel stand.
http://www.techenclave.com/for...ry.id%3D49378%23M85045

I ve 2 purchase a monitor on Monday...thats say around Sunday 9:00pm EST & I need to decide which one, even be4
So help me decide:
#1 E248WFP
#2 SP2208WFP
#3 2208WFP (UltraSharp)
#4 L226BTQ
#5 wait for VX2435wm which I m sure would be over my budget when its launched.

P.S. I'll be getting the Quad Core 9450 processor; P45 series board & the 9800 GPU in March & m using a 19" Viewsonic E96F+SB CRT monitor capable of 1792 x 1344 & ultra-fine 0.21mm Horizontal (0.25mm Diagonal) dot pitch :huh: for yrs now & ve never be4 purchase a LCD monitor.

Are the mentioned LCDs, fitting my budget, gonna be any better than my current crt ???

M I gonna regret the view through those LCDs, compare 2 my current view (I don't mean the view of the monitor but through the monitor) ???

Should I wait a little longer till the release a 24" with S-IPS, fitting my budget (which seems next 2 impossible)...or till the current S-PVAs get cheaper...or TNs mature to perform as good ???

I don't mind keeping my current monitor & ve no space/looks problem, on my desk. But I ve 2 get the Quad cores, P45 & 9800 (I review products & need the setup) n I can't delay that !!! (Incase some1 suggests I use some money 4m that budget for the monitor)

TIA & lemme know soon...m short on time.

 

[Trean]

On page 120 (this page) there is a user review of the VX2435wm... its out by the way; don't know what you are waiting on. Is it not released where you live?

I don't know exactly the price he paid but there currently is a $100 mail-in-rebate offered through several online retailers. I think he ended up paying $540 or so after rebate.

I would stray from TN panels because of the viewing angles since you noted you do indeed use the monitor to watch a movie occassionally.

 

[has33]

^LOL...how I wish I could go for the rebate.

Originally posted by: has33


So here it goes...I m 4m Bombay, India & we are the deprived few, as we hardly ve much choices when it come to PC parts.

But thanks 4 the reply & do suggest some other option.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Trean
Besides the widescreengamingforum I could not find a source that stood by their TN stance on the monitor. Apparently when the monitor was released they announced a 5ms response time or something like that and did not note whether it was BWB or GTG. Which lead to a few places assuming that it must be a TN panel and the viewing angles in the spec were just wrong.

Since then the response time has been clarified(now listed at 8ms) and all the reviews I have read have sworn by the great viewing angles; thus in my mind it can't be a TN panel. As for what panel is in the thing; the only consensus is that it is a VA panel. I don't have a reputable source as to what type. xtknight states its a S-MVA where the hardforum states its a P-MVA and a few other sites just list MVA without the prefix letter... so I guess its an MVA I don't know what the prefix letter even means.


Edit: Oh and reasoning on why WSGF.com has TN listed... well the only ones that can update it are admins or something otherwise it has to be suggested on the forums and that means someone has to buy it and be a participant on the forum... and who would buy a TN panel (going off their site) and then go to viewsonic and see 8ms response time!

PRAD states P-MVA by CMO, although CMO calls their VA panels S-MVA.

http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev...ic-vx2435wm-part8.html

Originally posted by: AtmosFear
Hey I was wondering if anyone could help me.. I've been using a Sony Trinitron Multiscan G400 (19" CRT display) for the past 8 or so years and it's been great, although within the past year or so, it's started to die slowly and needs to be replaced.

Now that LCD's have become the standard, I've been trying to find a replacement for my CRT, but I was having a really difficult time deciding between all the different vendors and models. I'm glad I finally happened upon this thread, since I really had no idea where to even start. Anyway, I need a monitor mainly for computer programming, with a little bit of photoshop work (if I need to quickly create a logo or button for a website), no gaming whatsoever (well, maybe MAME, but that's rare) and I'd like to be able to watch movies, although it's not a huge deal, just a nice to have. So my main focus is on viewing code, text and documents. I'd like a larger monitor than what I have now, so I've been looking at 22 and 24 inch screens, but I think bigger is better (unless there's a reason that I should choose 22 over 24)

I was looking at the following from the recommendation guide:

24": Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC, 1920x1200 (16:10)

it's within my budget (around $600) which is good, but the note regarding ghosting worried me a little bit. I guess I probably wouldn't be affected since I won't be using this for games, but I was just wondering if maybe Dell has come out with a revision since this guide was put together, or if there might be a better monitor for programming work. Also wanted to know if a 24 inch monitor is too large for computer programming work, or if it'll cause eye strain since the native resolution is pretty high (I take it that it's best to leave an LCD at its native resolution - I'm used to running my CRT at whatever resolution provides the best display of text without killing my eyes. I think at work I run a 21 inch Trinitron CRT at 1600x1200 without an issue)

The 2407WFP-HC is a decent choice for your purposes, actually. But it has a wide gamut backlight, so if you're going to be making any pictures for the web at all, you might want a normal gamut LCD. Wide gamut offers no advantages for the text work you do, so it only makes sense to go normal gamut.

I suggest the ViewSonic VX2435wm first and HP LP2465 second. VX may be a slightly higher quality panel.

P.S. ClockHound: This info isn't in the OP yet but you can't calibrate most wide-gamut monitors to sRGB in any way. You can specify them to track along the sRGB curve (roughly gamma 2.2) but this does not adjust the "gamut" of the display (which is for all intents and purposes permanent without crushing grayscale resolution). Calibrating a wide gamut LCD to the sRGB curve basically means very little when it comes to matching the sRGB color space.

Expensive pro LCDs like the Samsung XL20, NEC SpectraView Reference 21 which have an sRGB option in the OSD would still crush details or dither to achieve this (not sure exactly how it works for each).

This can be compensated for by in software, but you will get crushed details here too. It's much preferable to working on an sRGB image on an Adobe RGB monitor, though.

Gamut is a function of the phosphors used in the backlight, so with an 8-bit LCD all you can do is use the shades of gray which do not exceed the sRGB space. And on a wide gamut LCD, there are a limited amount of tones that do not exceed sRGB. You're probably talking about excluding at least 20% of highlights/shadows/details (collectively).

Dell also has the following 24" monitor which is $369 (verus $599 for the UltraSharp 2407WFP) and as far as I can tell, the main difference is the fact that the 2407WFP has a 6 in 1 card reader and more inputs (RGB, S-Video, composite video, component video)

Dell E248WFP 24'' Widescreen LCD Monitor

Huge difference actually. This one uses a TN panel and delivers considerably lower picture quality. Go with a VA if you used to have a Trinitron.

I've also heard some good things about Samsung monitors, but I'm not really sure which ones I should be considering.. I know to stay away from the 226BW, but is the 245BW 24" good?

So if anyone can give me some advice or suggestions, I'd really appreciate it, since I'm really quite lost at the moment. Thanks!

245BW is TN. 244T (normal gamut) and 245T (wide gamut) are Samsung's VA models but the ViewSonic and HP are better bets.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Amart
I am looking for a monitor for gaming and design work (student level, color accuracy is desired but not critical).
Size: 19" 4:3 or, more likely 20" Widescreen 1600x1050, with the ~0.25 dot pitch. Not willing to go higher due to GPU (8800 GTS 320mb), and sitting distance.
Budget: $200-400 (I am on a budget, but can shift resources if the sacrifice is worth it)

The only store I can buy from is FRYS.com, because they are the only ones that have 100% 30 Day Return guarantee, so I can get a replacement, different model or refund in case I'm not satisfied (according to their sales over the phone, and what's listed in their return policy online).

All the local B&M chains require 15% restocking fee for any open box LCD, and some claim to be Final Sale only. I haven't tried smaller stores yet.
Most other online stores have shameless dead pixel return policy, 7 or more, and don't recognize other issues like image tearing.

I've talked xtknight and he suggested the HP w2007.

I went to see it at J&R (NYC) - took some time to calibrate since someone messed up its settings, but once I reset and tweaked it the image quality was great. The glossy screen was a problem for me, however, as darker images (common in games) resulted in too much of a reflection. I am used to some reflection from CRT, but this was higher.
The exterior design was also an annoyance - its one high-gloss box inside another, with ~1/4" space in between, perfect for collecting dust and being hard to clean.

The Samsung 206BW they had a much better exterior design, but apparently a bad roll in the panel lottery - tearing and color bleeding / jitter / flickering was highly visible on both static and moving images. The colors were acceptable for me on both, as I could calibrate it much like the HP.

Back home I went through the review links and the best so far was XBITLABS.com - xtknight please check out his format, especially things like RTC / Non-RTC specification and RTC-Error percentages.

I do take a look at X-Bit Labs reviews religiously. Most of the monitors are placed in the OP because of X-Bit reviews but occasionally I'll add if I'm reasonably convinced it's a good LCD by other review sites.

Conclusion: I'm basically screwed.

Fry's has:
- LG 1960TR, but then I'll have to give up on design (its triangulblargh stand looks disgusting), and my minor preference for 20" W over its 19" 4:3.

- Samsung 206BW - I can live with the lottery and having to calibrate default color settings EXCEPT Image Tearing. If it shows the same tearing I saw at J&R it's going to be returned. It's RTC has some errors 15% average with 50% max, but can be turned off (making it just like a nonRTC 5ms B2B monitor)

- HP w2007 - big issue with glossy screen, no RTC option so some response lag, and minor gripes with exterior design

- LG 206WTQ-BF - according to XBitLabs the bigger 226WTQ has sub par color setup, worse then Samsung, and I have no other reliable in-depth reviews to go by so far. I also remember high RTC errors being mentioned, which is unacceptable, and likely affecting the 20" panel too. The new firmware supposedly reduced the RTC errors, but no new review to indicate to what extent. People report it's not noticeable, so I guess it's good. I can't be sure about color accuracy being good or bad - HP's w2007 is better then w2207, so perhaps the same situation applies here.
_____________

From reading XBitLabs reviews, there's also the ASUS MW201u that has good color accuracy for a TN panel, decent RTC setup, and slick design.
If Fry's had it I would have ordered it without a second thought. Except it's not sold by them or any other merchant I know. I'm trying to find it right now =(

I'll probably go with the LG 206WTQ from Fry's and get a calibration tool to ensure the accuracy is good.

I can also roll the dice with a Samsung and hope for one of the better panels ... or Fry's being honest about their 30 day guarantee.

The 2007 20" LCD monitor market and return policies are making me sad. >_>

The L206WTQ/calibrator option sounds like the best to me, actually. And yes you are screwed when it comes to 20" widescreen panels. You've covered all the bases. I'm speechless when it comes to any other recommendations for 20" wide.

The tearing problems could be due to a poor hook-up by Fry's. It's probably using VGA, not autotuned at all, 100% brightness, and no monitor drivers which describe supported refresh modes (possibly causing the jitter).