[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I apologize ahead of time for my lack of knowledge, I can only tell you what I see.
I received my Viewsonic vx2435wm today. For those keeping track I ordered it Sunday evening from TechOnWeb and received it this today (Friday) even with New Years in between.
My only complaint with them was that it was shipped in the original box. Which means not even a piece of tape to hold the lid closed.
If someone wanted to steal the cables off the top of the box in transit, they were fair game.
....

Well, this is great news. I had a hunch you'd like it.

The panels you tried last were all TNs, stricken with QC problems.

Originally posted by: jns
thanks xknight!

I talked to a HP-retailer yeasterday and he couldn't say anything about the panels, and yes I've seen the thread you linked... still seems like a lottery... pretty good odds though.

Funny thing with the thread about NEC 2070NX from dp-review - it was mine

:laugh:

I'm still into the 2070NX but it seem hard to get... no retailers (here in sweden) got it in stock and they don't know when to get it... so, now I've got my eyes on the NEC 2090UXi too.

Do you/anyone think the 2090UXi is worth the extra money over the 2070NX???

The 2090UXi is indeed a great panel, probably a good amount better than the 2070NX.

Reviewed here (I'm sure you've probably seen it): http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...20inch-5_17.html#sect0

It is a pro panel, whereas the 2070NX is just your run-of-the-mill 20" S-IPS panel.

The pro panels offer the NEC 90 Series features...well they're all described in that review anyway. Basically uniformity compensation (ColorComp) and an internal 12-bit LUT.

Supported by SpectraView II: http://www.necdisplay.com/Supp...Monitors/spectraview2/

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: GarfieldtheCat
Well, I pulled the trigger last week, and ordered the dell 3007wfp-hc. I got an email saying it would be back-ordered until 1/9/08. But then they ended up shipping it overnight on the 3rd, so it arrived yesterday, a week early! :Q

Plugged it in last night, and WOW! It's H U G E !!! The colors do look off, so far the reds are the worst color. I was going to order a calibration suite to correct the colors, but I thought I had a week before it came, whoops.

Fired up Call of Duty last night, and it was great. My 8800GT ran it (and Gears of War) fine so far, no frame rate problems yet. And everything is so big, it's great!

So anyone have a recommendation for calibration software? I am thinking of maybe the Eye One, or perhaps the Coloreyes software with a puck. Any thoughts?

basiCColor is my favorite calibration software by far. It offers ton of options. ColorEyes is quite decent too. I haven't really gotten a chance to play around with that many programs.

The free Eye One Match program (supporting Eye One Display 2) is a great choice though for everyone.

Originally posted by: C Zoui
Thank you for your efforts, xtknight. This is the best LCD resource I have encountered on the internet.

I'm trying to find a suitable monitor for my multimedia needs, including photo processing, gaming, HD movie viewing, and spreadsheet use. My ideal specs are:

24" (given my viewing environment, the ideal size for movies in particular), PVA/MVA/IPS (for better color reproduction and viewing angles), HDCP (for the HD-DVD/BD drive that will eventually be purchased, and possibly HD cable tv content), 1:1 (for 1080p with black bars and games at less than 1920x1200 with black bars instead 4:3 or fill scaling), medium image delay or lower, and under $600 AR.

Unfortunately, my options appear to be quite limited, if not non-existent.

With the exception of the high image lag, the 24": ViewSonic VX2435WM, 1920x1200 (16:10) fits the above criteria. This is one rare instance, however, when I feel compelled to veto a unit based on aesthetics alone. I find it hideously ugly; the built-in speakers extend its profile unnecessarily, but worse still is the 'high-gloss, piano-black' finish, a reflective eyesore that screams faux-elegance. I know beggars can't be choosers, and there appears to be few reliably-reviewed monitors that meet my criteria, but I just can't bring myself to do it.

I agree with you. I think it looks really fake too, but considering I don't look at the bezel that much I'd probably end up purchasing it too due to its image quality.

I could probably settle for the marginally high (40ms) image delay of the 24": HP LP2465, 1920x1200 (16:10), but it lacks HDCP.

Having exhausted all the 24" choices in the recommended multimedia section of this thread that fit my criteria, perhaps you are thinking, "What about the 24": Dell UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC, 1920x1200 (16:10)? It's only 69 dollars more than your max budget, and it performs reasonably well with movies." It doesn't, however, appear up to snuff for gaming.

The better question for me to ask appears to be what new monitors are coming that will fight my criteria, and when are they coming?

Finally, I'd like to inquire about the DoubleSight DS-245W. It appears to meet all of my requirements except the image lag that I cannot determine.

Input lag on all of the 24" monitors isn't that much different. They are all probably about the same (2-4 frames depending on exact capture). I seriously doubt there is any difference between any of the 24" panels regardless of how the measurements appear to vary. It is something you may have to worry about on all the 24" panels (at least the VA/IPSs) but probably only for gaming.

I don't know any more about the DoubleSight panel than you do because there haven't been any pro reviews of it yet (at least not by the good sites). It should be about the same as the HP (same panel), and apparently it offers HDCP. So it's a great bet for you. I don't see it offered at Newegg anymore though (out of stock?) I hope it hasn't been replaced by this TN: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824185006

Edit: I forgot to mention, the 19": LG Flatron L1970HR, 1280x1024 (5:4) link to Circuit City is no longer valid. The 19": LG Flatron L1960TR, 1280x1024 (5:4), meanwhile, has gone down in price from 270 to 230 dollars at CompUSA.

Thanks, I'll get around to updating the links.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: cboath
xtknight,

Amazing work on this thread and the guide. I've been deep into selecting a panel for a couple weeks now, and i *think* i'm getting close, there's just so much info and so many panels to look at.

My issue in selecting is that, unlike what you lay out in the guide, I don't do one thing primarily with my system. It's probably equal parts 3D modeling, Architectural design, web design, browsing, and gaming.

Well I'm the same way. I do everything. But I'm kinda odd too because I just download trailers to see how good they look on the LCD.

Given that, I've narrowed it down to three choices (for the time being )
Benq FP241W
Viewsonic VX2435WM
Samsung 245b (maybe T?)

My issues with each are as follows:

Benq, if the above report is right and they get pulled from NA, then the price will never go down, and frankly $650 is kinda steep for me. I thought i found a great deal at ncix for 550. In the end, with the 0 dead pixel deal and shipping, it's still over 600.

The viewsonic just got a pretty good review a few posts above this, and it has a 100 rebate offer. However, there are limit first hand use reviews. 15 newegg and the various magazine articles. The one in particular said if you're going to spend this much you might as well get the Dell 2407 or Benq. On Dell's site, theirs is 700 and the Benq will be 650, and you can get the viewsonic for 550AR. A question I do have is, with the limited info on this, how did it get rated so highly in the recommendations in the guide? Have you or someone you know used it? I'm curious.

The PRAD review is mainly why I recommended it. I trust PRAD quite a bit and they did provide a lot of data to prove their statements. The gamma correction graph and uniformity measurements really show its superiority. The correction graph deviates little from the 2.2 gamma curve (unlike the LP2465) and the uniformity is quite high class for a consumer panel (better than high-end NECs by default, even).

Uniformity measurements also: http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev...ic-vx2435wm-part9.html

Lastly, with the Samsung, it's a TN panel. I saw it at a local BB and thought it quite nice, even though it was a foot or two above eye level. I did tilt it down a bit (doesn't tilt down too much) but it was far from a perpendicular view. Unfortunately the BB didn't really have any better panels to compare it to, they had a bunch of 24" TN's on display.

Combining everything I do, would any monitor rate above the best? And, is the benq that much better than the viewsonic to make up a 100 price difference?

Thanks!

The ViewSonic really is a good choice. I don't believe the BenQ is worth it and I think a TN panel is too restrictive for anything but gaming-only.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: gwilly
I'm probably in over my head on this forum but I'm looking to improve my color management process between my laptop and and printer. I use Lightroom and Photoshop CS3 for photo editing. I have a Toshiba A105 - S4364 laptop with a NVIDIA GeForce Go 7300 - PCI Express video.

I'd like to add a second monitor to improve the color management versus using the laptop screen. The video card only has VGA, not DVI and as I have read thru parts of this forum and Dpreview I understand I would want to move to a IPS panel which appears to have DVI connection. I was looking to spend betwee $500 and $750 for the second monitor.

How much image quality would I lose using a VGA connection with an IPS panel monitor? Is replacing my video card with a different card that has DVI connectivity be an option? Any recommendations would be appreciated. Thanks in adance for respnses.

This totally depends on how high quality your laptop's VGA output is. How to tell this, without an oscilloscope or other HW? I don't know really. Using a laptop places you in between a rock and a hard place. That is, unless you can find some ratings online for the VGA quality of your laptop.

The VGA input of almost any good LCD is adequate even for photo editing. With a good VGA output, you really can't tell a difference.

You can't replace the video adapter in a laptop (unless it's one of those special gaming ones with the MXM? module).

I'd recommend putting together a cheap PC w/ a DVI card. Probably ~$300 though but it oughta be less frustrating to use. If you decide to go this route you can get a Huey Pro and an HP LP2065.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176053&Tpk=lp2065
$355 AR (high likelihood of IPS panel, VA panel is decent)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...2347010&Tpk=huey%2bpro
$100

And with a ~$300 DVI PC (if you buy parts/assemble or find some good deal) you're at $755. Not bad.

The LCD2090UXi (nearest IPS at this price range) is $820: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002137

I actually can't think of any other screens over $400 and under $750 that are suitable. There are very few IPS panels on the market today, and no VA panels in that range are exceptional. Your situation however limits you a bit so I'll have you think about what you're going to do about the lack of DVI. If you can confirm that it has great VGA though, the ViewSonic VX2435WM and a colorimeter is also a great option.

The Samsung 971P is a great option (if you don't play games; see Notes in recommendations entry) for photo editing. Combine this with a colorimeter then you're well in your price point, and plus, 1280x1024 is less stress on the VGA port. Or, at least, it's a slightly cheaper experiment. It's probably even better than the ViewSonic VX2435wm.

EDIT: Hmm, looks like the 971P may be discontinued.

Don't expect the pro LCDs (the NEC ..90) to pass certifications though without a colorimeter, but you might be able to get by without one. For the consumer LCDs I think a colorimeter is very desirable for photo work. You're sacrificing a lot of shadow detail and saturation by not getting one.

You could probably evaluate the VGA connection by hooking it up to another VGA device at the same res as the LCD you want. If it looks decent at 1280x1024 then get a 1280x1024 LCD.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: has33
Sup ppl...I went through 100s of search results & numerous forums in the last 10 days & abt 20 pages of this thread but still haven't found an answer. I m just a day away 4m purchasing a monitor and all my search tells me that this is the best place 2 post my question.

So here it goes...I m 4m Bombay, India & we are the deprived few, as we hardly ve much choices when it come to PC parts. Most of my stuff [E6750 @ 4GHz (3.6GHz 24x7) on ASUS Blitz formula SE watercooled with PA120.3 RAD, nozzelled D-TEK fuzion 6x120mm Sunons, MCP655, etc; 8800GT cooled with HR-03GT; 4x1GB crucial tracers cooled by OCZ XTC; Antec TruePower Trio; etc] has been imported 4m the US but stuff like Monitors cannot be imported cause of the obious.

Monitors can't be imported? Why? Am I missing something?

The limited choices we ve are Samsung, LG, Viewsonic & recently Dell. But not the full series of the mentioned brand of monitors. Like non of the 24" were launched by Samsung, Viewsonic has plans 2 release the VX2435wm but only next month & LG L245WP costs abt Rs.33K which is $825 US !!!

The best options are 4m Dell but not the 2407WFP/HC as they ve already been discontinued. They ve the TN panelled E248WFP for $500 US, SP2208WFP for $400, UltraSharp2208WFP for $365 & the 2007WFP for $485 but with the panel lottrey.
T
he 24" from LG (L245WP) is out of my Budget & there is no other 24" with S-PVA/MVA panel !!!

Among the available 22", the LG L226BQT is for $340 & Samsungs 226BW is for $525 with the panel lottery.

I don't mind getting the 2007WFP but the panel lottrey is scary & we don't ve NEC/Philips here. Also, I don't know how much the 16msec responce time effects gaming & how the 1080p movies would look on it.

My requirement:

I don't game everyday but I'm still a hardcore gamer (I like 2 play Crysis, COD 4, MOH Airborne, etc at highest settings & want them to be over 25FPS). I ve my 8800GT OCed to 740-core/18000-shader/2000-memory for gaming, through the volt mod & clock it even higher for Benching.

I use my PC for movies as well ( don't ve a TV ) for say 25% of the time spent on the PC & most are of 720x480 res but some are 1080p.

More than 50% of my PC usage is web browsing as I moderate a few forums which requires a lot of browsing.

And say 5% usage is rendering (movies/video) & editing (pics/sigs).

Question:

Out of the options I ve the only 24" that fits my budget of abt $550 US is the E248WFP but I couldn't find any reviews and only know (not certianly) that they use LM240WU3(TN) panel. Now I don't care that much if its a TN as m not much into photo editing but I m really bothered abt the viewing angle of such a large screen & I'd hate to watch a HD movie in washed out colours But I was really hoping 2 go 8-bit & full HD !!!

The SP2208 with 2ms responce time & true colour/true contrast sounds very sweet in the specs but...specially when its so cheap with 5yrs warranty but don't know how true they are or what that actually means in realtime performance as there aren't any proffessional reviews/comparision. Its left me in doubts if the LG's L226BTQ with 5000:1 ratio & 2ms responce time with only 3 yrs warranty would still be any better :S

And abt the Ultrasharp 2208WFP which is cheaper than Glossy SP2208WFP, according to DELL-ChrisM, Dell representative 4m dell community support forums:
They both use TN Film panels.
Ultrasharp in this case means height adjustable and swivel stand.
http://www.techenclave.com/for...ry.id%3D49378%23M85045

I ve 2 purchase a monitor on Monday...thats say around Sunday 9:00pm EST & I need to decide which one, even be4
So help me decide:
#1 E248WFP
#2 SP2208WFP
#3 2208WFP (UltraSharp)
#4 L226BTQ
#5 wait for VX2435wm which I m sure would be over my budget when its launched.

P.S. I'll be getting the Quad Core 9450 processor; P45 series board & the 9800 GPU in March & m using a 19" Viewsonic E96F+SB CRT monitor capable of 1792 x 1344 & ultra-fine 0.21mm Horizontal (0.25mm Diagonal) dot pitch :huh: for yrs now & ve never be4 purchase a LCD monitor.

Are the mentioned LCDs, fitting my budget, gonna be any better than my current crt ???

M I gonna regret the view through those LCDs, compare 2 my current view (I don't mean the view of the monitor but through the monitor) ???

Well, it looks like you might have to get a TN. But, the L226WTQ is a very decent choice. Will it be as good as your CRT? I don't know, this is almost totally subjective. It has a 1680x1050 resolution which is lower. Colors should be vibrant and sharp, though. And response time should be good.

How much is the Samsung 245B/245BW over there? It is a great choice for your requirements even though it's TN.

Should I wait a little longer till the release a 24" with S-IPS, fitting my budget (which seems next 2 impossible)...or till the current S-PVAs get cheaper...or TNs mature to perform as good ???

I don't mind keeping my current monitor & ve no space/looks problem, on my desk. But I ve 2 get the Quad cores, P45 & 9800 (I review products & need the setup) n I can't delay that !!! (Incase some1 suggests I use some money 4m that budget for the monitor)

TIA & lemme know soon...m short on time.

You might want to wait to see what else comes out, to be honest. Wait until the S-PVAs get cheaper over there. I don't think the L226WTQ is a "perfect" upgrade but if you're anxious it's a good choice.

 

[C Zoui]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Input lag on all of the 24" monitors isn't that much different. They are all probably about the same (2-4 frames depending on exact capture). I seriously doubt there is any difference between any of the 24" panels regardless of how the measurements appear to vary. It is something you may have to worry about on all the 24" panels (at least the VA/IPSs) but probably only for gaming.

I don't know any more about the DoubleSight panel than you do because there haven't been any pro reviews of it yet (at least not by the good sites). It should be about the same as the HP (same panel), and apparently it offers HDCP. So it's a great bet for you. I don't see it offered at Newegg anymore though (out of stock?) I hope it hasn't been replaced by this TN: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824185006

Good catch with the panel, it does appear to be the same as the HP.

The 245W is not out of stock, it has been completely removed from their offerings. Newegg introduced the 243N with old 245W link, probably hoping no one would notice. They let the internet get excited about a cheap S-PVA, then snuck in the TN panel. Sound familiar?

On another note, it seems like a lot of the recommended models are being discontinued. When are the successors coming?

 

[cboath]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: cboath
xtknight,

Amazing work on this thread and the guide. I've been deep into selecting a panel for a couple weeks now, and i *think* i'm getting close, there's just so much info and so many panels to look at.

My issue in selecting is that, unlike what you lay out in the guide, I don't do one thing primarily with my system. It's probably equal parts 3D modeling, Architectural design, web design, browsing, and gaming.

Well I'm the same way. I do everything. But I'm kinda odd too because I just download trailers to see how good they look on the LCD.

Given that, I've narrowed it down to three choices (for the time being )
Benq FP241W
Viewsonic VX2435WM
Samsung 245b (maybe T?)

My issues with each are as follows:

Benq, if the above report is right and they get pulled from NA, then the price will never go down, and frankly $650 is kinda steep for me. I thought i found a great deal at ncix for 550. In the end, with the 0 dead pixel deal and shipping, it's still over 600.

The viewsonic just got a pretty good review a few posts above this, and it has a 100 rebate offer. However, there are limit first hand use reviews. 15 newegg and the various magazine articles. The one in particular said if you're going to spend this much you might as well get the Dell 2407 or Benq. On Dell's site, theirs is 700 and the Benq will be 650, and you can get the viewsonic for 550AR. A question I do have is, with the limited info on this, how did it get rated so highly in the recommendations in the guide? Have you or someone you know used it? I'm curious.

The PRAD review is mainly why I recommended it. I trust PRAD quite a bit and they did provide a lot of data to prove their statements. The gamma correction graph and uniformity measurements really show its superiority. The correction graph deviates little from the 2.2 gamma curve (unlike the LP2465) and the uniformity is quite high class for a consumer panel (better than high-end NECs by default, even).

Uniformity measurements also: http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev...ic-vx2435wm-part9.html

Lastly, with the Samsung, it's a TN panel. I saw it at a local BB and thought it quite nice, even though it was a foot or two above eye level. I did tilt it down a bit (doesn't tilt down too much) but it was far from a perpendicular view. Unfortunately the BB didn't really have any better panels to compare it to, they had a bunch of 24" TN's on display.

Combining everything I do, would any monitor rate above the best? And, is the benq that much better than the viewsonic to make up a 100 price difference?

Thanks!

The ViewSonic really is a good choice. I don't believe the BenQ is worth it and I think a TN panel is too restrictive for anything but gaming-only.

Man, i didn't realize how many questions were in the queue there You had a really busy night on this thread alone it seems! The answer you gave is probably the best answer I could ask for. Perfectly explained. The fact you did it so eloquently after previously answering the other 87 questions in the line is pretty impressive, too. Top notch work my friend.

Thank you for all the hard work. I definitely appreciate it!

 

[Amart]

I want to consider a non-TN panel, just to see how steeper the price will be and for what quality.

Requirements: 19" 4:3 or 20" wide, low lag (<25ms including input lag), relatively accurate colors, relatively uniform (minimal bleed).

I heard much good about non-TN panels, but I haven't seen one 20" with reviews.

Price - I would rather pay double for something I'll use for 5+ years, but get good quality. So ~$500-600 could be possible.

____________________________

Looked at Dell 2007WFP that got a great review at xbitlabs, and listed for under $500 at Dell... but bloody panel lottery is too risky. S-PVA or S-IPS would be ok, but they are mixing PVA there too... sigh. Now reading the investigation at hardforum. Looks like it's discontinued in some areas, so I'll have to call in. There some sold on ebay but that's too risky for me.

Looking for something that compares, at a similar price.

 

[Trean]

@DoctorM:

Questions about the VX2435wm ---

1) What do you mean by "scrolling white text on black that there is odd grey flicker to the text." A more verbose description possibly? Is this a graphics card thing or a monitor thing? On a scale of 1 to 10 state your annoyance with this unexpected problem.

2) What was the price range. If you don't wish to reveal your sale price that is find, could you give us a close guesstimate on final price before rebate? (something on the 25's would be nice, 575,600,625,etc)

3) Could you test other inputs?

4) Could you test movie viewing? Whether it is through a standard dvd player, your computer, an upconvert dvd player, or a hi-def dvd player.

5) Got any game consoles that you want to test and provide feedback?

6) Would you suggest purchasing from TechOnWeb?

7) Would you recommend this monitor in general?

8) Would you recommend using a unit to attach to wall/desk to add height adjustment feature and possibly more tilt/turning?


Thanks for all the work, especially being the first one I have encountered in awhile to having actually bought one of these.

 

[cboath]

Originally posted by: Trean
@DoctorM:

Questions about the VX2435wm ---

1) What do you mean by "scrolling white text on black that there is odd grey flicker to the text." A more verbose description possibly? Is this a graphics card thing or a monitor thing? On a scale of 1 to 10 state your annoyance with this unexpected problem.

2) What was the price range. If you don't wish to reveal your sale price that is find, could you give us a close guesstimate on final price before rebate? (something on the 25's would be nice, 575,600,625,etc)

3) Could you test other inputs?

4) Could you test movie viewing? Whether it is through a standard dvd player, your computer, an upconvert dvd player, or a hi-def dvd player.

5) Got any game consoles that you want to test and provide feedback?

6) Would you suggest purchasing from TechOnWeb?

7) Would you recommend this monitor in general?

8) Would you recommend using a unit to attach to wall/desk to add height adjustment feature and possibly more tilt/turning?


Thanks for all the work, especially being the first one I have encountered in awhile to having actually bought one of these.

The price, at the moment, on Techonweb is 626. Newegg is 639. Dell is 669. That's your range. Plus there's a 100 rebate you can take of those, too.

I'm curious about the answer to #6 as well, though

 

[Mockyngbyrd]

BenQ FP241W update:

I just changed out my old video card (e-vga 7900GTO) for a Galaxy 8800GT and updated the driver (from 169.09 to 169.21) and I think I've been stricken by the "blackout" issue. It was brief, but disturbing nonetheless. I "so far" still think it's a very good monitor, but I will try to update with any info I come up with. I don't know if its a driver issue or video card issue that puts the signal in an "out-of-spec" situation for the monitor.

 

[DoctorM]

1) Sorry. A common website I visit, TheDigitalBits.com uses a black background and white text. If you scroll down the page, white text turns grey briefly as you move. It looks like a ghosting artifact, you all could probably reproduce it on most LCDs.

2) Yup, just like cboath said. TechOnWeb, regular shipping, still need to mail in my rebate.

3) I haven't tested the other inputs (haven't had a need).

4) Movies: PowerDVD, random Xvids with Media Player Classic, etc.
This was one of the most important parts for me. As far as I know the only reason Prad.de didn't rate movie playback as very good was because there may be a PAL aspect ratio issue if you plug in a standalone unit.
Since I don't have PAL equipment, I can't confirm or deny this issue.
I can tell you that it makes DVDs look bad. Only because the picture is so perfect you can see every piece of grain and compression flaw ever (and hope your player has a good scalar).
I even grabbed some 1080p trailers and clips and they looked _really_ nice.
That said I will never say it's perfect and I don't mean just this panel. Mostly because a LCD just can't do black right. There's always an odd glowy quality to what should be pure BLACK. Sort of a parallax effect from light that still gets through.
I've never seen it reproduced correctly on any panel yet so I don't think that's a pro or con for this monitor.
Compared to some of the worst offenders (TNs) I don't see a shiny silver quality which is a MERCY.
I think I detected some ghosting during a few action scenes, but I won't swear to it one way or the other (sorry I'm not helpful there).

Wow, reading that back I sound like I waffled. Summary: It's not a CRT and never will be. It's possibly the best looking movie playback I've seen on an LCD to date (my experience is somewhat limited). No banding in colored or grey areas such as smoke/mist. Btw, avoid Movie OptiColor mode unless you like the color blue.
I can't comment on external players since I don't have any connected.

5) My only console is an old Sega Genesis so I don't think that'll be informative.

6) TechOnWeb... so far I've never had any complaints and they got this to me crazy fast for FedEx Supersaver.
Just make a special request that someone goes and slaps some tape on the top of the box.

7) Yes. I recommend this.
I wish there was a finer control for color tweaking since I suspect they're still off a bit (the above Bryce calibration guide was used so that's not conclusive) and the R/G/B sliders really don't seem particularly useful (meaning the defaults seem to be the closest to accurate I could get things). The extreme darkest blues and reds are a bit crushed but none of the controls seem to help. (You will definitely have to reduce the brightness unless you wear sunglasses at your computer. 8)

8) Wall/desk attachment... this monitor sits at the right height for my current desk/chair setup so I have no idea if you would need the ability to adjust the height or by a wall attachment.
If I slouch or sit up on my legs, I find tilting the panel works just fine for compensating, if that helps.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: C Zoui
Good catch with the panel, it does appear to be the same as the HP.

The 245W is not out of stock, it has been completely removed from their offerings. Newegg introduced the 243N with old 245W link, probably hoping no one would notice. They let the internet get excited about a cheap S-PVA, then snuck in the TN panel. Sound familiar?

On another note, it seems like a lot of the recommended models are being discontinued. When are the successors coming?

I don't know when or even if the successors to these models are coming.

Originally posted by: cboath
Man, i didn't realize how many questions were in the queue there You had a really busy night on this thread alone it seems! The answer you gave is probably the best answer I could ask for. Perfectly explained. The fact you did it so eloquently after previously answering the other 87 questions in the line is pretty impressive, too. Top notch work my friend.

Thank you for all the hard work. I definitely appreciate it!

lol, glad I can help.

Originally posted by: Amart
I want to consider a non-TN panel, just to see how steeper the price will be and for what quality.

Requirements: 19" 4:3 or 20" wide, low lag (<25ms including input lag), relatively accurate colors, relatively uniform (minimal bleed).

I heard much good about non-TN panels, but I haven't seen one 20" with reviews.

Price - I would rather pay double for something I'll use for 5+ years, but get good quality. So ~$500-600 could be possible.

____________________________

Looked at Dell 2007WFP that got a great review at xbitlabs, and listed for under $500 at Dell... but bloody panel lottery is too risky. S-PVA or S-IPS would be ok, but they are mixing PVA there too... sigh. Now reading the investigation at hardforum. Looks like it's discontinued in some areas, so I'll have to call in. There some sold on ebay but that's too risky for me.

Looking for something that compares, at a similar price.

I can't think of any other 20" widescreen S-IPS or even S-PVA panels.

The best 19" 5:4 I can think of is the ViewSonic VP930b but I doubt it's worth it to you over some 22" TNs. I'd rather use a 22" TN myself.

Considering what's on the market today it's a much better idea to pay $300 for something now and then $300 for something much better later. But even if you want to stick with the $600 now philosophy, there is little today that is worth it to you.

A little more will get you the LCD2090UXi for $820 and this is an LCD that will last you. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002137 5 years, though? I'm not sure about that...it depends on how much you use it. That's a big risk to take.

You probably didn't have that much $ in mind, but I can't think of anything cheaper that is "prosumer" in the 20" size.

In the mid-range, 19" LCDs like this may satisfy your craving for image quality:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002151
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002135

These are S-PVAs though.

I still think the money is much better spent on a 24" VA for around $550.

IPS LCDs simply don't exist anymore for reasonable prices, except in rare instances. The HP LP2065 has come with S-IPS panels lately and it's $400 or cheaper. I think that might be the wisest choice for you. But a VA panel is also a possibility. It's not like you have many other choices, though.

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
....

Wondering about the ghosting issue. How bad/intense is it. I don't play many fast paced games but still wondering in that regard. Also in movies you mentioned some ghosting in movie scenes. Were these HD trailers or normal DVDs you were playing and upscaling?

Just wondering what kind of detraction the ghosting presents in the various uses, gaming, movies, etc.


Thanks for taking the burden of all these questions about the VX2435wm.

 

[DoctorM]

In the movie it was one of those... was that a ghost or blur between frames? I watched some action scenes from Matrix and Underworld. Really I'm more hedging my bet since someone is bound to see bad ghosting.. but I really can't. Like I said, the blacks to me were more of an issue.
Also I'm watching from a bit more than an arms length away. Movies look a bit better the further back you get.

As far as games I haven't done any serious playing since I got this monitor so I can't say. It was more firing up games, recalibrating them for 16x10 and testing how my vid card performs at holy begezzus resolutions.
To be clear, there is some ghosting. It's mild (like if you spin around quickly or strafe running you might see some). Mildly distracting but I'm a fuss-budget.
Like I said it was more reminiscent of motion blur than a double image most of the time. In a perfect world it would pristine, but it's not.
I occasionally fall into heavy hardcore fps gaming, but at the moment I haven't been there lately.

I'll have to fire up some TF2 or BF2 or somethingF2 and let you know.

What's more important (and the reason I went with this panel) is because you can buy FASTER displays, but they're just gonna look worse for everything else.
It was the trade off I was willing to make because I didn't want to compromise on anything else (or spend over $1000).

 

[Amart]

"I still think the money is much better spent on a 24" VA for around $550. "

No, I think it's going to be 19"-20" because I won't upgrade the graphics card soon. Thing is, all $200-300 models I looked at are absolute ripoff with disastrous results. Glossy where I never work or play in the dark, and with input lag or RTC error issues, with badly setup colors, or the worst case - backlights that flicker and result in the same eye strain of a CRT.

I'll probably be hunting down the S-IPS or VA panels at local small dealers, or try to risk an ebay purchase.

The secondary option is to wait for the 2032BW and hope that the first batch will have Samsung panels.
Too bad it looks so ugly though, unnecessary streamlining should have been left in the grave.

QUESTION: All the people talking about returning multiple LCD's where are you buying from? What stores allow returns of open LCD monitors? Most charge 15% restocking fee, are you paying that every time?

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: Amart
QUESTION: All the people talking about returning multiple LCD's where are you buying from? What stores allow returns of open LCD monitors? Most charge 15% restocking fee, are you paying that every time?

Pretty sure Best Buy and Circuit City as well as some other B&M stores offer no hassle returns within a specified time, either 14 days or 30 days.

 

[DoctorM]

Best Buy hassled me a year ago. I complained of backlight bleeding and 1 dead pixel on a panel I didn't care for. They frickin' pulled it form the box, turned it on, when I complained the took it to the back room with the lights out. I'm not kidding, I ended up returning it to a different BB (45 minute drive) just to get my money back.
That's why I won't even shop THERE anymore.

Btw, for those keeping score I now am using 40% Bright with 'Game' profile. Maybe the reviewer was right that it's the best set up.

GAMING
Played some HL2 and BF2 today.

The blurring I described before may be HL2. I always got a bit woozy playing the game and blown up on a gianormous screen it's a little different, but the same.
Now that I give it some serious consideration I wouldn't call what I see ghosting. More a motion blur. It's probably part of the HL2 engine and I just didn't notice it in 17".

BF2. Hmmm. First, it took me forever to get this game to launch again (I had been running it in 1024x768@85hz). You can't edit your profile to wide screen, you can't run an LCD at 85 hz. You have to disable refresh rate managers and you have to tweak the command lines.
Took about an hour to get everything back.
So anyway I haven't played in almost a year (since I get lost in that game). ...And I had my ass handed to me.
Was that the Viewsonic? Dunno.
I felt a bit awkward on such a big panel and I think the hack to make it wide slightly distorts the FOV.
As far as ghosting... what's the opposite?
Maybe I'm crazy but I swear I saw a leading ghost before the image arrived (sometimes, when I was looking for it). It's a bit ugly and I couldn't help noticing it but probably because you guys asked me to (and frankly that's why I turned the game on).
I assume it's something to do with the overdrive.

I have a bit of mixed emotions about the gaming ability of this screen right now, but perhaps that's just from getting shot so many times.
If you are a serious gamer and seriously picky about picture quality I wouldn't recommend this (I'd recommend a CRT).
For the rest... um, I dunno. I wouldn't return it, but... I'll test this again later when I'm less stressed.

 

[Amart]

Originally posted by: Trean

Originally posted by: Amart
QUESTION: All the people talking about returning multiple LCD's where are you buying from? What stores allow returns of open LCD monitors? Most charge 15% restocking fee, are you paying that every time?

Pretty sure Best Buy and Circuit City as well as some other B&M stores offer no hassle returns within a specified time, either 14 days or 30 days.

Online they list Monitors among exceptions that require 15% restocking fee on open-box returns.

I'm wondering if people refer to some other stores or just negotiate with managers (before the purchase or when trying to return/exchange).

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: Amart

Originally posted by: Trean

Originally posted by: Amart
QUESTION: All the people talking about returning multiple LCD's where are you buying from? What stores allow returns of open LCD monitors? Most charge 15% restocking fee, are you paying that every time?

Pretty sure Best Buy and Circuit City as well as some other B&M stores offer no hassle returns within a specified time, either 14 days or 30 days.

Online they list Monitors among exceptions that require 15% restocking fee on open-box returns.

I'm wondering if people refer to some other stores or just negotiate with managers (before the purchase or when trying to return/exchange).

Here you go:

From BestBuy.com (store return policy)
14-day return period
We accept returns or exchanges 14 days from the original purchase on computers, monitors, notebook computers, projectors, camcorders, digital cameras, radar detectors and video games purchased as used.

Circuit City has a 15% restocking fee, on their 14 day monitor return policy... Best Buy does not. Hope this helps, and just cause its listed doesn't mean it can't be haggled to zero .

 

[Ronin13]

I'm planning on getting the Samsung 971P, but it seems that there's an updated model on the way, the 971P+.

As far as I know, the only difference is the higher contrast, due to Dynamic Contrast Control.

Is this something worth waiting for?

Does monitors with Dynamic Contrast Control normally have an option to turn it off?

 

[Ghouler]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The Gaming section is for a very niche market but one I feel I must still serve. I haven't seen a 22" that really qualifies here besides the Iiyama 22" which is supposed to be really good for gaming, but isn't available in the US.

I wonder why. Is this because they hope people in US get 32" instead as it is *just* $1400?
My 22" costed me about $400, bought it in Bayern, EU though. Excellent value for money even though I feel it lacks ultimate blackness for movies.

 

[cboath]

DoctorM,

I went ahead and ordered from Techonweb and then immediatedly fired off an email to them requesting the box be taped shut, as per your suggestion. Guy responded in about 10 minutes saying he'd try to get that done. Sounded pretty confident about it though. I was going to go newegg (as i want a keyboard and duorb, too) but I saw they upped their price $30 since this weekend. 679 vs 628 wasn't too hard a choice .

 

[dreydin]

my 6th monitor purchase in 3 months and i am NOT returning this one!!! =)

i had to go to 3 stores before i could find a Samsung panel in a HP w2207.. but i found it! and i LOVE it! it was a huge pain getting this thing out of the original packaging and the glossy screen, is well, a bit... glossy(no doubt attributes to its picture quality though). but other than that, i have no regrets! ever since i turned this thing on, ive had nothing but a huge grin on my face! the factory colors are absolutely fantastic and COD4 has played great on it, so far(5ms seems to be very satisfactory for gaming). the base is a bit large, but it is sturdy and makes it super easy to raise, lower and tilt. i havnt used the side USB ports since my iPod dock has 5 of them, but this is def a nice plus if the PC gets a temporary relocation(LAN)! and unlike a lot of the recent monitors ive seen, the HPs power button is on the top of the monitor and NEVER distracts or pulls your attention from the actual display. i really dont know what else to say! this thing pwns my face!

in conclusion: youll get my HP w2207 when you pry it from my cold dead fingers lol >=D


ps. ty xtknight and everyone else who contributed to my decision making process in this thread <3

 

[the DRIZZLE]

I posted this in its own thread but didnt get any responses. Im looking at the Gateway HD2200 because it seems like it can take a 720p image and correctly upscale it and display it with the small black bars to keep the right aspect ratio. The reason I like this feature is that I will be able to use it with my xbox 360 without distortion. Does anyone have any experience with this monitor?