[Retired] The LCD Thread

[JoshC2]

Drivers for the 2408WFP:
http://support.us.dell.com/sup...&libid=0&fileid=235071
Or at least Dell seems to indicate so...
All i hope is that they correct that overdrive issue causing the ghosting. Less this issue on the 2407wfp-hc, it was damn near a perfect monitor...
Anyone have any further info about it?

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: JoshC2
Drivers for the 2408WFP:
http://support.us.dell.com/sup...&libid=0&fileid=235071
Or at least Dell seems to indicate so...
All i hope is that they correct that overdrive issue causing the ghosting. Less this issue on the 2407wfp-hc, it was damn near a perfect monitor...
Anyone have any further info about it?

No official information has been released on this monitor. The speculation and rumors state that it will probably be released before the summer similar to the 2407wfp. Hopefully, the incorporate the rev A04 of the the 2407wfp in their creation since that was the revision that seemed to have fixed all the problems with Dell's 24" series... and then most of the problems were reintroduced with the 2407wfp HC version.

 

[Thraxen]

Have a question here for the LCD gurus. I very recently purchased the Samsung 245BW for gaming. The pictured look great, no dead pixels, and since I have a corner computer desk the viewing angle is a complete non-issue... it just sits directly in front of me... you can't even physically get far enough to the side of it due to the desk and walls to have an issue with viewing angles.

So I was pleased at first, but when I played an HD video I got all these blue lines flickering horizontally across the screen. Then when I stopped the video the lines stopped flickering, but in the areas where the lines had been there were these almost static looking glitches. Hard to describe. Anyway, the glitches disappear when you turn the monitor off and then back on. Right now I'm waiting for my 8800GT card to arrive, so the monitor is running on a cheap 8400GS.

So what's the issue here? Is this a problem with the monitor? Video card? Drivers? If you google up 245BW (or 245B) and "blue lines" you'll see that apparently a fair number of people have had this same problem with this monitor. So I fear this may be a flaw with this model. If so, I'd recommend removing it from the list of recommended monitors.

 

[newschool]

I was always putting away the wide LCDs because the resolution is too high to play games with a high FPS. But for the 19", the wide 1440x900 (1.296MP) is actually comparable with the non-wide 19" 1280x1024 (1.31MP).

I originally was going for the non-wide 19" LGs, they are great and look good. But now that I want a wide one for film viewing, pixel pitch and general look, LG wasnt delivering (check xbits labs).
Samsung was my other option but they are having problem with panels, your never sure wich one you get, it is a known issue.

But now LG has just released the L197WH, I will be the first to buy. 2msGTG, 16.7M colors, 5000:1 contrast (F-Engine) and HDMI.



xtknight you should check it out and add it to the recommanded gaming and multimedia monitors.

http://www.lge.com/products/model/detail/l197wh.jhtml

 

[carquote]

I was in the store today looking at the samsung 245bw and noticed that there were 2 different color boxes for them. When I looked further to see what the difference was I saw one said made in Mexico and one China. Which one is better and is one better to avoid? Also, I have read mixed reviews for this monitor. For around $400 is this monitor a good deal? That is really the most I am willing to spend, I was originally looking at 22" monitors, but for $400 I am now considering it as well as the Dell E248WFP, both of which are $400. If anyone knows of a better lcd for less than this amount I would love suggestions. I will be using it for mainly gaming and general use, with light photoshop and video work. Thanks!

 

[redlinez33]

Well my opinion is positive. Heres a two questions to ask your self

Is viewing angle important to you?
Do you require perfect color accuracy?

If you answered yes to either of these, then this monitor isnt for you. Otherwise its a great monitor.

I did notice there were two boxes, a brown and a white. I didnt notice one was made in mexico and other was in china, but I bought the white one (made in mexico) and am pleased with it. I rather support mexicos economy than chinas, so unless there is a difference between the two, I would choose Mexico any day!

 

[Thraxen]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Well my opinion is positive. Heres a two questions to ask your self

Is viewing angle important to you?
Do you require perfect color accuracy?

If you answered yes to either of these, then this monitor isnt for you. Otherwise its a great monitor.

I did notice there were two boxes, a brown and a white. I didnt notice one was made in mexico and other was in china, but I bought the white one (made in mexico) and am pleased with it. I rather support mexicos economy than chinas, so unless there is a difference between the two, I would choose Mexico any day!

Have you had any issue like I described above?

 

[carquote]

Yeah, one box was white and one was brown. I know Samsung has been notorious for the practices i.e. the S panel switcharoo...so I wasn't sure why the same model would be either made in two different countries or why the place it was made would have changed. I have a funny feeling one is better or more reliable than the other but without anyone knowing the difference I am unsure which one to buy. I also do not undertand all the concern people have with viewing angle on TN monitors. I have only sat directly in front of my monitor at a computer desk. I am not sure where people are sitting but it sounds like looking at the monitor while seated at a desk should not be an issue. As far as the color issue, I do not have a trained eye and don't think I will realize the difference. If all monitors under the $400 price point are TN thank I will definitely be buying a TN monitor. Is the general consensus that the 245bw is better than the Dell E248WFP, also $400. Thanks again for the repsonses.

 

[Ronin13]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Ronin13
I'm planning on getting the Samsung 971P, but it seems that there's an updated model on the way, the 971P+.

As far as I know, the only difference is the higher contrast, due to Dynamic Contrast Control.

Is this something worth waiting for?

Does monitors with Dynamic Contrast Control normally have an option to turn it off?

That's interesting, but yes, all PC monitors that I know of have options to disable dynamic contrast control. The 32" Sharp which I recommend for HTPC use has no option to disable dynamic contrast but that's probably irrelevant to your needs.

Something worth waiting for? Maybe, if it has better overdrive than the 971P. That would be the reason it would be worth waiting for.

xtknight, thanks for your reply - it's amazing how you get around to answer all these questions :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

You write about the 971P that it's 'NOT suitable for any multimedia or motion video editing because of poor response time control.' I've seen some reviews that agree on this and some that said it performed pretty good with both movies and games.

Have you seen the panel in action? How bad is it at these tasks? (I'm not into really fast-paced first-person shooters...)

Another question about the Samsung 971P:

On Samsung's site it says under 'Special Features' that the panel has a 'Safe Mode(Down Scaling in UXGA)'. On Samsung's Danish site this was called 'UXGA (1600x1200) Downscaling' - what does that mean?

 

[redlinez33]

Do we even know of any other company that makes a 24" TN panel besidse samsung?

Supposely from what I read the gateway is a samsung panel (could be wrong, but I did read it somewhere on a forum)..

I dont actually have any HD video to watch............... So I havent tested it with that.

Any particle website I can go to and watch a video that gives you problems????

Did you buy the one made in mexico or china? (brown or white box?)

 

[redlinez33]

Well I think I can help with the 971P. I have it (well I did have it, passed it along to my brother)....... I always felt the there was something off with the screen when playing games, like the response time or something wasnt FAST enough, but supposely thats not the problem. I never noticed any weird visual problems that people were talking about, any my brother who plays games as well notices nothing. He loves it and cant believe how good the picture looks.

Its a pretty old monitor now, so I am not sure how much it costs and what other competitors it has for its type (19" 5:4 panel), but I dont think you would have any problems playing games... I dont understand why its not recommended for multimedia use, I used it all the time for this and never noticed anything. Guess I am not as picky about monitors as I thought, or maybe my monitor was special

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: carquote
I also do not undertand all the concern people have with viewing angle on TN monitors. I have only sat directly in front of my monitor at a computer desk. I am not sure where people are sitting but it sounds like looking at the monitor while seated at a desk should not be an issue.

I want my monitor for movie and television viewing to open up some space in my studio apartment. If I was sitting at my desk directly in front of the screen I wouldn't have a problem with the TN panel either, unfortunately my chair is on wheels and I like to move. Oh and I have a couch too that I watch movies from... which again is not in the TN nice angle range.

 

[DoctorM]

*cough* 150" Plasma at CES *cough*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Khb0HUIMZ6Y

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Does anyone know whatever became of the 24WMGX3 mentioned here and on HardOCP?

I've been told that the 20WMGX2 was replaced by the 22WMGX, which is definitely underwhelming to say the least, but I assumed all along that a 22 would be a TN anyway. But what about the 24"? IIRC from XT's earlier post, it was going to be an S-PVA rather than IPS...so is it the 2470WNX? Its a PVA with 6ms response...

EDIT: Please tell me its not this thing: http://www.necdisplay.com/Prod...4c93-8243-938ad36dcea8

 

[cboath]

FWIW, my vx2435wm just came from Techonweb this morning. Not bad considering i ordered on monday morning, fedex ground shipping, and it came from california and got to me in oklahoma this morning. There was 'a' piece of tape on the box, but by the time it got to me it wasn't holding anything on there. According to the photos on newegg, everything is there, though, all cables, instructions, etc. Of course i've got 6.5 long hours before i can get home to hook it up!

As an aside, do other companies ship LCD's this way? As in, just take the manufacturer's box and slap a shipping label on it? I gotta say, even if it is common, seems odd that viewsonic, themselves, do not tape the box shut. Pretty much everything I buy comes with the box taped shut (or sealed somehow) by the manufacturer.

 

[Trean]

Once again, eagerly awaiting a 2435wm user review!

 

[imported_mckrautski]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: mckrautski
...
Has anyone seen both to be able to make a recommendation one way or the other?
...

It's really hard to say. I'm just more inclined to say the LCD2690WUXi since it's an S-IPS panel but if you need the multimedia inputs then the 275T is a better choice. The 275T might be better for those more into multimedia and movies as it has a lower black level. But if it's more artwork then go for the LCD2690WUXi.

The multimedia connections probably aren't that big of a deal at the moment, though if I ever retire the monitor and turn it into a secondary TV it might be. I imagine if I ever wanted to hook something like a DirectTV box upto the NEC I could just buy an HDMI to DVI converter cable to connect to the second DVI input right? Not that it's something I plan on doing at the moment but ya never know.

Hmmm decisions decisions...

 

[hypeMarked]

Originally posted by: brencat

Well, I stopped by a local Best Buy on my way home from work and they had an LG-246WP on the shelf. It does have 1:1, but that's it. Menu was not particularly intuitive and menu buttons are in a weird place underneath the frame in lower left corner -- a bit of a PITA.

Meh, picture was so-so. TBH, the colors and vibrancy seemed inferior to a Samsung 245BW which is a TN panel that happened to be right next to it. That 245BW by the way didn't seem to suffer all that much from off angle (left/right) viewing and seemed notably superior to the 22" versions of Samsung's 226CW, and 2232 also nearby, and also both TNs too.

xt, I've never seen the Viewsonic VX2435wm nor the HP LP2465 in person but why do you think the Viewsonic is the best 24" gaming monitor when it appears to have fairly high input lag (40 - 50ish) ? According to digitalversus, that's even higher than the original Dell 2407WFP. What am I missing?

I am also in the same shoes as brencat and interested to know as well.

 

[cboath]

Originally posted by: Trean
Once again, eagerly awaiting a 2435wm user review!

Well, DoctorM posted one last week. I'll hook mine up tonight and give early impressions in the morning - but won't get too in detail til this weekend if i have the time. I also don't have a DVD player to plug in, nor a next gen console to test out the additional ports if that's what you're after.

I'll check it out in word processing, cad, 3D modeling, and a couple games...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: brencat

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: brencat
Anyone here have the LG-246WP ? Seems like a really nice monitor from what I can tell and P-MVA panel (I think). Is this the best non-TN 24" monitor for gaming (I play shooters mostly)? Also does it have 1:1 and aspect scaling?

Also, google searches have claimed this monitor was selling at Best Buy for ~ $450 around Xmas. Now it's back up to $600 range. I have a 12% BB coupon too so if that $450 sale price ever comes around again soon, I might be able to pick this up for $400 flat.

Comments appreciated.

I think it does have 1:1 and aspect scaling but I can't confirm this. The best non-TN 24" for gaming is the ViewSonic VX2435wm, and the HP LP2465 is an alternative option as well which has less video inputs but a more tame design.

Well, I stopped by a local Best Buy on my way home from work and they had an LG-246WP on the shelf. It does have 1:1, but that's it. Menu was not particularly intuitive and menu buttons are in a weird place underneath the frame in lower left corner -- a bit of a PITA.

Meh, picture was so-so. TBH, the colors and vibrancy seemed inferior to a Samsung 245BW which is a TN panel that happened to be right next to it. That 245BW by the way didn't seem to suffer all that much from off angle (left/right) viewing and seemed notably superior to the 22" versions of Samsung's 226CW, and 2232 also nearby, and also both TNs too.

xt, I've never seen the Viewsonic VX2435wm nor the HP LP2465 in person but why do you think the Viewsonic is the best 24" gaming monitor when it appears to have fairly high input lag (40 - 50ish) ? According to digitalversus, that's even higher than the original Dell 2407WFP. What am I missing?

I have to agree with you after seeing the L246WP (or was it an L245WP) along with a Gateway FPD24 (S-PVA) and 245BW. I thought the Gateway looked the best, but the 245BW was more vibrant than the lifeless LG.

To be honest with you I'm not sure that there is a variation among the input lags of 24" VA panels. They all have it, and all have about the same amount. I've never seen a 24" VA that didn't have 3-4 frames of it at max. The Dell 2407WFP isn't being sold anymore, and the HC version isn't that suitable for gaming because of its ghosting problem.

The FP241W has blackout problems.

I believe the Gateway FHD2400 and Samsung 245BW are the best 24" gaming monitors (see Gaming section for low input lag), but I think the VX2435WM is the best VA gaming or multipurpose monitor.

The LP2465 is probably about the same as the VX but as I mentioned a few posts ago, the gamma performance of the VX seems to be superior. The VX also offers several more inputs, which, even though I say I only rate on image quality, is another reason why it's rated higher for multimedia. I was also more impressed by the uniformity of the VX panel, although I can't say if the HP was better or worse here because the PRAD review didn't mention it. The gamma was the main important thing: the ViewSonic obviously produced darker tones better than the HP.

Originally posted by: xtknight
The PRAD review is mainly why I recommended it. I trust PRAD quite a bit and they did provide a lot of data to prove their statements. The gamma correction graph and uniformity measurements really show its superiority. The correction graph deviates little from the 2.2 gamma curve (unlike the LP2465) and the uniformity is quite high class for a consumer panel (better than high-end NECs by default, even).

If I had the opportunity to use both, I could tell you for sure but I can only go off of what I see online.

The graph in the third (lower-left) quadrant shows the darker tones that the calibration had to correct. A function of y = x is ideal, yet the HP had to be corrected significantly more in this area which represents darker tones of color.

Besides, the VX retains more bit depth (number of colors) after the calibration because it deviates less, causing less need for corrections.

Most people don't have colorimeters. And even then, many calibration profiles do not affect games or movies. That makes this an important advantage for the ViewSonic. It will reveal darker tones and it will do so with decent accuracy. It's also why the HP got eschewed in favor of the VX2435wm for photo editing.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gast
ZOMG, 100s of new displays at CES. Several of which are coming this quarter, some even "next month". 22-inch VLED221wm anyone?

Quite exciting.

Originally posted by: bsongo
First of all, this thread is awesome. I never read so much wealth of information on lcd's before.
I was hoping everyone can help me or at least care to.

I am an aspiring photographer. I would call myself semi-pro with on a wimpy budget.
I was reading through this thread and everyone seemed to be recommending the Samsung 215TW. Alas, I cannot find a legitimate retailer selling the monitor except for amazon which has a 3-6 week wait.

Nor can I, which was disappointing. I had to remove it as it's simply out of stock I guess. It seems to come in and out. I don't know Samsung's plans on this model.

I guess I should list my criteria.
20 or + widescreen but no bigger then 24"
S-PVA or equivalent. Ideally, I would like a S-IPS monitor, but I would like to wait for the prices to come down with better selection. Hopefully in a year or so.
Main uses 80%:
Photo editing
Browsing the internet
Movie watching

Other uses 20%:
Games (im not too snobby on games. I like to play the occasional counter strike source)
Video Editing

The price:
No more then 500 bucks shipped and taxed.

If there are other criteria I should list, please let me know.

Thank you.

I actually don't know of any 20-24" widescreen panels VA or IPS that are under $500 (and certainly not after ship/tax). If that's shocking to you, it is to me too. :\ There's the Soyo 24" which is $300 but it has a pretty poor reliability record. It's available at Office Max and I think you can return it if you have problems.

There are some standard aspect options though. The HP LP2065 is the main model that comes to mind. It does give you more screen area than widescreen 20" and it sounds like most of your uses would benefit from more area. It does mean suffering from more black bars during movies though. But you do a little with the widescreen anyway, especially if the movie is in 1.85:1 or 2.35:1 aspect ratio format. But even a 16:9 movie has to fit on the 16:10 widescreen LCD monitor.

It seems like LED backlight monitors are just on the horizon so I wouldn't get too worked up about our current VA/IPS situation. Hopefully that will bring in some more professional monitors, although there's no telling of how the prices will end up.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FinrodFelagund
Wow I expend the last 2 days reading this thread and got to say I never learned so much about LCD than here. Great Work!

Well I present myself, I live in Venezuela and I'm bulding a new pc, already order all the components but forgot to buy a monitor :S and my budget is not that high so I'm looking for the best 20" 22" lcd I can get. The video card I got is a 8800 GTS 512mb. I plan to use the computer for: 50% gaming, 30% Work and studies related matters (Microsoft Office tools; web developers and programing tools like macromedia dreamweaver, fireworks, microsoft SQL-server, MySQL, Oracle), 15% web surfing and 5% ocasional view some movies or videos and manage some photo albums

My budget is 300$ and think I could go up to 350 but no more. The other thing is I got to buy from amazon since I got a 300 $ gif card in that page to expend. I search and found the next monitors:

HP W2007 $239.41
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...46&colid=3CIDZO7NW71Y8

HP L2045w $316.06
http://www.amazon.com/Hewlett-...&qid=1199891048&sr=8-1

Acer AL2216Wbd $216.11
http://www.amazon.com/Acer-AL2...&qid=1199891333&sr=8-1

HP W2207 $309.99
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...41&colid=3CIDZO7NW71Y8

ViewSonic VX2255wmb $333.20
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...Z3&colid=3CIDZO7NW71Y8

LG L226WTQ-BF $315.98
http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...8P&colid=3CIDZO7NW71Y8

My favorites are the HP W2207 and VX2255wmb but got to say that the w2007 and the AL2216Wbd are GREAT bang for the buck. I also looked at NEC 20WMGX2 (It's unavailable) and Samsung 206BW (panel lotery... no thanks) Any others monitor I should consider? I really want to stay away from 19" lcd since I want the most space avalible in my screen. I know my main activity is gaming but is not the only thing the computer is for

By the way, my old computer uses a 17" CRT and I used that monitor for about 3 years now. Not sure if this helps to get some advice on what should I buy, but I mention it anyway

Thanks in advance

Well it looks like the best monitor for you is the ViewSonic VX2255wmb, at least in my opinion. The w2007 would be my second option.

You are taking a risk with the LG L226WTQ because not all units in every store have been updated with the latest firmware. I say this for you in Venezuela because they may not move as much stock as the US. It had ghosting problems, making it less suitable for gaming. Otherwise, I have to say that the LG is a good model if you can get one with the newer firmware. Maybe your retailer would be able to notify you of this somehow.

I can't think of any other monitors you're forgetting. A lot of those are the ones I recommend.

Originally posted by: JoshC2
Drivers for the 2408WFP:
http://support.us.dell.com/sup...&libid=0&fileid=235071
Or at least Dell seems to indicate so...
All i hope is that they correct that overdrive issue causing the ghosting. Less this issue on the 2407wfp-hc, it was damn near a perfect monitor...
Anyone have any further info about it?

I don't know but I did see a 3008WFP review: http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2244043,00.asp

Haven't looked at it yet...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Featherock
>Jesus, you're asking me to do what? Ha ha, okay, once I figure out how to reduce my >blanking interval, I'll try that, when I get the new card. I'll keep you posted. Meanwhile, >the 2690 is really wonderful. I profiled it with a Spyder Pro and the difference between >the profile and the factory settings were barely noticable. I have to toggle between the >two in System Preferences to actually see the difference. If someone snuck into m office >and changed the profile back to factory settings without my knowing, I probably wouldn't >notice.

It depends on what you calibrate it to, but I notice depending on the calibration settings (L* vs sRGB, etc). Probably just 'cause I'm anal-retentive.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Thraxen
Have a question here for the LCD gurus. I very recently purchased the Samsung 245BW for gaming. The pictured look great, no dead pixels, and since I have a corner computer desk the viewing angle is a complete non-issue... it just sits directly in front of me... you can't even physically get far enough to the side of it due to the desk and walls to have an issue with viewing angles.

So I was pleased at first, but when I played an HD video I got all these blue lines flickering horizontally across the screen. Then when I stopped the video the lines stopped flickering, but in the areas where the lines had been there were these almost static looking glitches. Hard to describe. Anyway, the glitches disappear when you turn the monitor off and then back on. Right now I'm waiting for my 8800GT card to arrive, so the monitor is running on a cheap 8400GS.

So what's the issue here? Is this a problem with the monitor? Video card? Drivers? If you google up 245BW (or 245B) and "blue lines" you'll see that apparently a fair number of people have had this same problem with this monitor. So I fear this may be a flaw with this model. If so, I'd recommend removing it from the list of recommended monitors.

I'm not really convinced that this is more than an isolated issue. It certainly doesn't seem as prevalent of the FP241W blackout problem.

That's not to 'unacknowledge' it though. I see your concern I just don't think right now that is grounds for unrecommending it. I'm seeing mostly one or two people's complaints simply crossreferenced when I look at a Google search.

Let me know if it also happens with your replacement unit.

I also have no way to confirm it's the monitor, but I suspect it is. It could be the included cables (if applicable). There's been cases where these cables have been faulty, causing people to think the monitor was at fault.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: carquote
I was in the store today looking at the samsung 245bw and noticed that there were 2 different color boxes for them. When I looked further to see what the difference was I saw one said made in Mexico and one China. Which one is better and is one better to avoid? Also, I have read mixed reviews for this monitor. For around $400 is this monitor a good deal? That is really the most I am willing to spend, I was originally looking at 22" monitors, but for $400 I am now considering it as well as the Dell E248WFP, both of which are $400. If anyone knows of a better lcd for less than this amount I would love suggestions. I will be using it for mainly gaming and general use, with light photoshop and video work. Thanks!

Mexico vs. China...I'm not sure there is really a difference just because it was manufactured somewhere else. But it has been the case with some panel lotteries where ones manufactured in country X used more S panels. The 245BW uses only one panel as far as I know.

If you're considering a 22" TN you might as well consider a 24" TN. The 245BW really is decent but it's a TN which pretty much rules out most off-axis (viewing angle) use. It's still a pretty decent monitor though and probably worth it to a lot of people for its lower price. I don't know of a better LCD for the price. Unless you can find the Gateway FHD2400, which is glossy, but its reproduction of dark tones isn't that great. It does have a lot of inputs though, good for console gamers.