[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: imaheadcase
Vr-zone forum member has the new Dell 24inch monitor it looks better in pictures he posted vs his "old" 24inch dell. Says he likes it better. Think im going to get that when it shows up on dell website.

Wow, I'm actually shocked at the differences there. It was completely the opposite of what I had expected, so much that I'll have to take back what I said about high gamut not being worth the wait.

It really looks like LCDs are on their way to approaching high-end DiamondTron quality now when it comes to colors (92% gamut). I believe the DiamondTrons were about 104% NTSC so we'll have to see what LED backlights bring. I think the latest LEDs do 114% or so.

The material I saw on the 931C didn't seem to indicate any truer colors or anything of the matter; rather, just exaggerated and inaccurate ones. The 2407WFP-HC and 3007WFP-HC definitely bring something new to the table.

VR-Zone forum 2407WFP vs 2407WFP-HC
PCPop review 3007WFP vs 3007WFP-HC

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: bryanvlo
BTW does anyone know what is the latest revision of the LG WTQ? So I can double check if the model I'm getting has the latest firmware that resolves the ghosting issue.

Any revision 1.14 or greater seems to be fine. If it's not bad enough for you to be able to notice it, I wouldn't worry about it. Every LCD with RTC is bound to have a tad bit of trailing. The newer one will still have a little, just a lot less.

 

[giom]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I think the LG L204WT would be a pretty decent choice if you're on a budget. I'm not sure the 215TW is really going to help you that much with photo editing, even if it looks a lot better. I think that the LG has great color reproduction as it is even though it's a TN, so that's a good choice.

The 206BW S panel is probably not a bad choice (the 205BW (S) got a great review). It's not quite as good as the L204WT though, probably.

Ok, I'm going to buy the LG L204WT then. Thanks a lot for your advice.
EDIT: however it seems that the delta-E out of the box for the L204WT is not so good http://www.flatpanels.dk/test....showfull&id=1172052100, so maybe the 206BW-R would be better if it's an S panel ?

I don't have enough money to buy a calibration tool.... so it would be better if the colour is good out of the box. What do you think?

They do seem to give steps to correct the colour problem in the danish article but I'm not sure if the monitors are consistent enough that those steps could be repeated (and I'm not completely sure of the danish to english translation: I used http://visl.dk/trs/?pair=da-en)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: giom

Originally posted by: xtknight
I think the LG L204WT would be a pretty decent choice if you're on a budget. I'm not sure the 215TW is really going to help you that much with photo editing, even if it looks a lot better. I think that the LG has great color reproduction as it is even though it's a TN, so that's a good choice.

The 206BW S panel is probably not a bad choice (the 205BW (S) got a great review). It's not quite as good as the L204WT though, probably.

Ok, I'm going to buy the LG L204WT then. Thanks a lot for your advice.
EDIT: however it seems that the delta-E out of the box for the L204WT is not so good http://www.flatpanels.dk/test....showfull&id=1172052100, so maybe the 206BW-R would be better if it's an S panel ?

I don't have enough money to buy a calibration tool.... so it would be better if the colour is good out of the box. What do you think?

They do seem to give steps to correct the colour problem in the danish article but I'm not sure if the monitors are consistent enough that those steps could be repeated (and I'm not completely sure of the danish to english translation: I used http://visl.dk/trs/?pair=da-en)

Hmm well by any chance is the 226BW available there? Even if it's a bit more money, color profiles are widely available online (Andrew Swihart's site and BeHardware, maybe HardForum) and they will put you further ahead than if you just used the out-of-the-box settings.

http://www.google.com/search?h...icm&btnG=Google+Search
http://www.brywright.co.uk/misc/samsung226bw/

The 206BW does have reasonably decent out-of-the-box settings:
http://www.digitalversus.com/d...6&mo2=175&p2=1752&ph=5

But who knows if that was an S, A, or C panel? Probably an S...

 

[giom]

Well apparently, there are no 226BW here...

I'll just have to open the box of the 206BW-R in the shop to check the screen I guess (I'll probably only be able to check if it's written S at the back, I don't think they will allow me to see the service menu)

On a related note, I found a Lacie Blue EYE Vision CRT/LCD Color Calibrator that could cost me a bit less than 100 dollars. It seems to be an old model though. Do you think it would be worse it? It would stretch my budget but only by a bit

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: giom
Well apparently, there are no 226BW here...

I'll just have to open the box of the 206BW-R in the shop to check the screen I guess (I'll probably only be able to check if it's written S at the back, I don't think they will allow me to see the service menu)

On a related note, I found a Lacie Blue EYE Vision CRT/LCD Color Calibrator that could cost me a bit less than 100 dollars. It seems to be an old model though. Do you think it would be worse it? It would stretch my budget but only by a bit

Oh, I definitely think it would be worth it. That'll help greatly with photo editing.

 

[amking]

i stumbled across this thread (well actually the old one) over a year ago and have been randomly checking back since.... and i'm quite sad that nothing has been released in the 20.1" range that knocks the 20wmgx2 off its $600 throne. if someone would just make a similar quality (lower priced) lcd without the unnecessary speakers and tv tuner i'd be all over it. i could even get over it if the new model still had the same crappy bezel and stand that the 20wmgx2 has. why cant the 2007wfp have smokin panel damnit >:[

ok enough bitching...

xtknight, about 8 months ago i asked if you knew of any new models coming that would be similar to the 20wmgx2 in quality and you said no..... any change to this? i dont really want to go bigger b/c i like 1680x1050. i guess i could just suck it up and spring for the nec with the $100 rebate

also, since i follow hdtv technologies/product releases more than computer related display stuff i've noticed that led driven dlp's are coming on the market and supposedly there are lcd flat panel tv's coming that use led's (and are amazing). how long do you think it will be until this stuff hits desktop displays? obviously there are some led backlit laptops hitting stores, so that has to be some indication..

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: imaheadcase
Vr-zone forum member has the new Dell 24inch monitor it looks better in pictures he posted vs his "old" 24inch dell. Says he likes it better. Think im going to get that when it shows up on dell website.</end quote></div>

Wow, I'm actually shocked at the differences there. It was completely the opposite of what I had expected, so much that I'll have to take back what I said about high gamut not being worth the wait.

Even though high gamut monitors might be worth the wait, it seems that any visible difference on pics posted on web forums should be highly suspect, unless these pics are viewed on a high gamut monitor. Since most everyone is using a standard gamut monitor, the huge differences shown in the HC vs non-HC models in the VR-Zone forums has to be attributed to calibration, or variation of panel quality within the standard gamut color range.

By definition, the wider gamut monitor is showing colors that our regular monitors can't show. Any difference between the HC and non-HC that can be seen on a regular monitor is within the standard gamut range.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: amking
i stumbled across this thread (well actually the old one) over a year ago and have been randomly checking back since.... and i'm quite sad that nothing has been released in the 20.1" range that knocks the 20wmgx2 off its $600 throne. if someone would just make a similar quality (lower priced) lcd without the unnecessary speakers and tv tuner i'd be all over it. i could even get over it if the new model still had the same crappy bezel and stand that the 20wmgx2 has. why cant the 2007wfp have smokin panel damnit >:[

ok enough bitching...

xtknight, about 8 months ago i asked if you knew of any new models coming that would be similar to the 20wmgx2 in quality and you said no..... any change to this? i dont really want to go bigger b/c i like 1680x1050. i guess i could just suck it up and spring for the nec with the $100 rebate

There hasn't even been anything close for overall image quality, that has been released in the past six months. The only possible rival is the Samsung 215TW which is not widely available any more, and it's more expensive when you count in the NEC's rebates.

The LG L226WT is something you might consider. The unit I tested beat the NEC in contrast by a large margin (though still fell quite short in color accuracy and detail).

also, since i follow hdtv technologies/product releases more than computer related display stuff i've noticed that led driven dlp's are coming on the market and supposedly there are lcd flat panel tv's coming that use led's (and are amazing). how long do you think it will be until this stuff hits desktop displays? obviously there are some led backlit laptops hitting stores, so that has to be some indication..

I don't think DLPs will be hitting desktops. They don't have a small enough dot pitch. In addition they are ridden with ugly viewing angle problems and a color wheel that causes nausea in some people (this will be very bad for close-distance viewing).

LED-backlit LCD TVs have arrived, as have LED-backlit LCD monitors. Their price is steep, however. The cheapest LED-backlit LCD is the Samsung XL20 at $2000 USD, which has rather lackluster performance considering its technology.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: imaheadcase
Vr-zone forum member has the new Dell 24inch monitor it looks better in pictures he posted vs his "old" 24inch dell. Says he likes it better. Think im going to get that when it shows up on dell website.

Wow, I'm actually shocked at the differences there. It was completely the opposite of what I had expected, so much that I'll have to take back what I said about high gamut not being worth the wait.

Even though high gamut monitors might be worth the wait, it seems that any visible difference on pics posted on web forums should be highly suspect, unless these pics are viewed on a high gamut monitor. Since most everyone is using a standard gamut monitor, the huge differences shown in the HC vs non-HC models in the VR-Zone forums has to be attributed to calibration, or variation of panel quality within the standard gamut color range.

By definition, the wider gamut monitor is showing colors that our regular monitors can't show. Any difference between the HC and non-HC that can be seen on a regular monitor is within the standard gamut range.

Hm well anyone who has a wide gamut monitor is welcome to look at the images although I'd bet in relativity they'd look roughly the same. Don't think it's a gamut thing. I bet it looks really close to that in real life. Judging by his descriptions of it, the pictures seem to depict the difference accurately.

I think that, if anything, we are not seeing the whole difference by looking at it on a lower gamut monitor. That is, it probably looks even better than we're seeing right now.

What it could be is a better calibration of that particular panel (HC). I think it's just the W-CCFL personally. It covers a larger amount of the NTSC space, and thus is able to produce a more natural image. It does indeed look a lot more natural. I'm still a tad surprised that the difference is so apparent even on a low gamut display. That might indicate that some of the gamut could be better mapped for the lower gamut displays to produce a more natural image.

 

[Dolfan349]

Man, just came back from four hours of searching for a 226BW S panel -- and I found one!

Well, at least the back said "226BW S". Is there another way I can verify it's really a S panel?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Dolfan349
Man, just came back from four hours of searching for a 226BW S panel -- and I found one!

Well, at least the back said "226BW S". Is there another way I can verify it's really a S panel?

You can use the service menu (instructions should be online somewhere) or open up the panel.

 

[Dolfan349]

Originally posted by: xtknight
<div class="FTQUOTE"><begin quote>Originally posted by: Dolfan349
Man, just came back from four hours of searching for a 226BW S panel -- and I found one!

Well, at least the back said "226BW S". Is there another way I can verify it's really a S panel?</end quote></div>

You can use the service menu (instructions should be online somewhere) or open up the panel.

I see... never mind then. I'll just trust the back of the panel that it's truly a S panel for the time being.

 

[Nullvoid]

Hey guys. I realise this is a somewhat futile request since it will ultimately come down to my own decision, but looking at the following shortlist of monitors, do any stand out immediately as being better or worse than the rest?:

Acer al2032wa
Acer al2051ws
Asus pw201
Belinea 102035w
Dell 2007wfp
Philips 200wp7es
Viewsonic vx2025wm

I guess I should say - I'm not averse to glossy panels, my pc is mostly used for word processing/gaming/spreadsheets/movies (in order of time spent) and I place a reasonably high value on the monitor being able to give good image quality even though I don't do any photo editing or the like. Any help or advice would be appreciated since I'm having a hell of a time trying to narrow down my options.

Thanks in advance!

 

[imaheadcase]

the Pcpop.com link has a better screen by screen shots. The HC one really sticks out in those. What is amazing though is the price (according to websites) that its about the same price as "old" 24inch.

 

[bryanvlo]

It really is the same price - at least according to my local Dell website.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nullvoid
Hey guys. I realise this is a somewhat futile request since it will ultimately come down to my own decision, but looking at the following shortlist of monitors, do any stand out immediately as being better or worse than the rest?:

Acer al2032wa - P-MVA
Acer al2051ws - P-MVA
Asus pw201 - P-MVA
Belinea 102035w - P-MVA
Dell 2007wfp - S-PVA/S-IPS
Philips 200wp7es - S-IPS/P-MVA
Viewsonic vx2025wm - P-MVA

I've added the panel technologies to your quote. Essentially, they are all good choices. I assume you specifically looked for PVA/MVAs. (I wish those were more available in the US.)

I'm not as confident of the PW201 or Belinea's performance, though. I have no idea hwo the Philips performs either. So the Acer AL2051Ws would be the most solid choice. The VX2025WM is no longer sold new (and I can't find the Philips or AL2032WA on sale from any trusted vendor).

I guess I should say - I'm not averse to glossy panels, my pc is mostly used for word processing/gaming/spreadsheets/movies (in order of time spent) and I place a reasonably high value on the monitor being able to give good image quality even though I don't do any photo editing or the like. Any help or advice would be appreciated since I'm having a hell of a time trying to narrow down my options.

Thanks in advance!

Well, the Acer AL2051Ws may be your final choice, at least IMO.

 

[imaheadcase]

Originally posted by: bryanvlo
It really is the same price - at least according to my local Dell website.

Local dell website? Am i missing something here because only the 30inch with HC is listed on dell website atm in the USA.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: imaheadcase

Originally posted by: bryanvlo
It really is the same price - at least according to my local Dell website.

Local dell website? Am i missing something here because only the 30inch with HC is listed on dell website atm in the USA.

Indeed it's not on the US site yet. I did find docs:

http://supportapj.dell.com/sup...ocs/monitors/2407WFPH/

 

[bryanvlo]

Oh sorry, I live in Malaysia.

 

[Machinus]

xtknight -

1)

Why haven't manufacturers created a new resolution for the monitors larger than 19" but smaller than 24"? I prefer crisper images (I think a lot of other people do as well) but I also don't need anything as big as 24" on my desk.

You said there aren't native resolutions, yet also there are 'crispest' settings -

1680x1050 = 20"
1900x1200 = 24"

etc.

Surely there is a 'crispest' resolution for nicer monitors around 22"?

2)

If you do discover anything to compete with the WMGX2 in terms of speed/detail/etc., I hope you will advertise it on the front page! The price point right now is obviously good for the performance but I think a lot of people want something slightly bigger.

3)

Thanks for your effort in maintaining this thread!

 

[Nullvoid]

<begin quote>Originally posted by: xtknight
I've added the panel technologies to your quote. Essentially, they are all good choices. I assume you specifically looked for PVA/MVAs. (I wish those were more available in the US.)

I'm not as confident of the PW201 or Belinea's performance, though. I have no idea hwo the Philips performs either. So the Acer AL2051Ws would be the most solid choice. The VX2025WM is no longer sold new (and I can't find the Philips or AL2032WA on sale from any trusted vendor).

Well, the Acer AL2051Ws may be your final choice, at least IMO.</end quote>

Thanks for putting the panels up xtknight, it does make things a bit clearer. Yes I guess I did single out the P-MVA (or to a lesser extent the S-IPS) panels as being my best bet since every review I see about them talks of their abilities as all-round monitors, not only suited to just one particular area in which they excel.

I have to admit I have my own misgivings over the Viewsonic and Belinea models simply due to their age (and therefore possible lack of support), and whereas I thought the Dell might be an option, it has just jumped in price here from £249 to £320 which seems far too much as I would buy the NEC 20WGX2 if I had budgeted that high. Your doubts about the Asus screen are also enough for me to consider it no further (and it is more expensive than I had thought...£323).

I had only picked that Philips model since it seemed logical that the company who helped develop the 20" S-IPS panel might be able to implement it well themselves. Although as you say it appears to be a lottery between that and a P-MVA (not exactly as hard to bear as the S, A, C fiasco with the Samsung monitors). It also got a rather good write up from PC Pro (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/labs/10...illiance-200wp7es.html), Custom PC (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/customp...?searchString=200wp7es) and Computer Shopper (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/shopper...?searchString=200wp7es), although their collective approach seems more subjective than anything else. Their main objection of price is no longer much of an issue as you'll see below.

About the Acers. When I downloaded the latest price list (http://www.acer.co.uk/acereuro...2/Monitor%20LCD_UK.pdf) from Acer's uk site, I found it to have a fairly detailed specification on both the models I'm looking at. The al2032wa is listed as a S-IPS panel not a P-MVA, it's actually also one of the cheaper models here for some reason, so I'm still giving it serious consideration. What I read about the al2051ws worries me though. I know it is meant to be a P-MVA panel and you recommend it quite highly, but on this same price list I was looking at, this is what it has listed:

"Panel Technology - TN film and CrystalBrite Technology"

Is it possible that they could have changed panel type to cut costs or suchlike? Or is it likely just a blunder on their part?

Anyway, after all that, I would be narrowed down to these:

Acer al2032wa - £196.54 [S-IPS/P-MVA, glossy]
Acer al2051ws - £240.35 [P-MVA/(TN...?), glossy]
Philips 200wp7es - £255.94 [S-IPS/P-MVA, glossy]

Sorry for the long post by the way but, for me, the buying of this LCD is quite a big thing and I don't want to go regretting my choice when I finally make it.

 

[Ika]

Since I'm very bad at making my own decisions, I'm going to post in this thread about my own (and I'm sure many others') dilemma.

Samsung 226BW or LG L226WT?

The Samsung is about $50 cheaper and is widely available, whereas I have to go hunting for the LG...

so I guess the real question here is, is the LG really worth it? Originally I was afraid of the Samsung three-panel lottery, but now that all Samsung monitors have that S panel, I don't think I would mind as much.

However, I'm sitting here with a 914v and being quite happy about it. I don't really think I'm that picky about monitors, but I don't really have many options in the way of trying stuff out.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: Nullvoid
About the Acers. When I downloaded the latest price list (http://www.acer.co.uk/acereuro...2/Monitor%20LCD_UK.pdf) from Acer's uk site, I found it to have a fairly detailed specification on both the models I'm looking at. The al2032wa is listed as a S-IPS panel not a P-MVA, it's actually also one of the cheaper models here for some reason, so I'm still giving it serious consideration. What I read about the al2051ws worries me though. I know it is meant to be a P-MVA panel and you recommend it quite highly, but on this same price list I was looking at, this is what it has listed:

"Panel Technology - TN film and CrystalBrite Technology"

Is it possible that they could have changed panel type to cut costs or suchlike? Or is it likely just a blunder on their part?

This Acer price list/spec sheet should be taken with a grain of salt. They list the AL2223W as "Advanced PVA", while it is a known fact that all 22-inch monitors, including this one, have TN panel. As for the AL2051Ws, yes it is indicated as TN, but lower on the spec page, viewing angle is quoted as 176 degrees, not a TN spec but a MVA spec. No need to be worried about typos on this spec sheet.

 

[Beatbox]

I'm currently using a 19" CRT that I can't really stand anymore. It's starting to get more and more blurry, and I want widescreen desperately. I would love a 24" (The LG one on sale currently for 580 CDN) but I'm scared of the 1920x1200 native resolution. I'm the typical "poor" student, so I can't upgrade every year to keep playing games on max settings at such high resolution.

I'm building a new rig in a few months, possibly one or two, that should be very close to this:

Antec P180 Case
BFG Nforce 680i LT SLI Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Processor
BFG Geforce 8800 GTX Video Card
4GB (2x 2gb) Memory PC2-5400 DDR2-667
DVD Burner
Seagate Barracuda 320gb
OCZ GameXstream 700W

...with a second 8800GTX in 1-2 year(s).

Otherwise, 22" is the next bigger screen, with a smaller native resolution, but the TN qualities and such leave me skeptical. 20 inches seem a little small, and while I'd get duals, while gaming it's not the same feel as a big 24''...

Should I be worried of the big resolution of the 24"?? Thanks in advance.

BTW, the monitor would be used for lots of gaming, multimedia stuff (web desinging, photoshop, etc) and office work.