[Retired] The LCD Thread

[imaheadcase]

That is overkill for a 24'' monitor. lol

You can game nicely on a 7series video card on one if you wanted, im going to use my 8800GTS 320meg on my new dell HC when they come out.

 

[systemf99]

Been lurking here trying to find which monitor to buy, was going to come down to an LG 20" or the Acer al2051w.

Happen to see a display of an al2051w at a Staples, but could not find it online (or in any other locations of Staples). Turns out that certain Staples had it, but very limited and is being cleared out. The stores I saw it only had a display model and the price tag said $209 on sale (could have bought the display for 10% off that), eventuall found one store that had a brand new one, and the price rang up $179. I am in the OC area, and there was only one other stores that had stock in this district. So if you are looking for one, serious YMMV, though worth a look maybe.

Anyways thanks for all the advice here, the monitor is much better than the generic 19" Norcent I was using. Looks great, I can read text much easier, where I thought my eyesight was getting worse, and the increased level of detail is great to. Do want to tweak it though even maybe get a calibrator.

 

[emelius]

superb!...thanks for the heads up...with the $50 price hike @ the egg, this news is quite refreshing...i realize MMMV...but nevertheless, i appreciate the post...

& btw, the $100 rebate on the 20wmgx2 has been extended...



--as of 7/2/20007, the AL2051W is back to it's "normal" price at the egg as well...

 

[Yikes2000]

OC = Orange County, California?

Which other Staples store still has it in stock?

 

[Machinus]

Is the L245WP-BN (LG) an IPS panel? If so, has anyone tested response times and color quality on this monitor? What about on the the LM240WU1 (LG Philips)?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Machinus
xtknight -

1)

Why haven't manufacturers created a new resolution for the monitors larger than 19" but smaller than 24"? I prefer crisper images (I think a lot of other people do as well) but I also don't need anything as big as 24" on my desk.

They have.

19": 1280x1024
-> 20.1": 1600x1200 / 1680x1050
24": 1920x1200

You said there aren't native resolutions, yet also there are 'crispest' settings -

1680x1050 = 20"
1900x1200 = 24"

etc.

No native resolutions? Hrmm?

There is no technically ideal size for a particular resolution, but each panel certainly has a native resolution that must be used for best effect.

Surely there is a 'crispest' resolution for nicer monitors around 22"?

I'm not sure what it would be.

2)

If you do discover anything to compete with the WMGX2 in terms of speed/detail/etc., I hope you will advertise it on the front page! The price point right now is obviously good for the performance but I think a lot of people want something slightly bigger.

Of course I would. The NEC just hasn't hit my hot deals yet because it's still a bit pricey for the size.

3)

Thanks for your effort in maintaining this thread!

My pleasure. I hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nullvoid
Thanks for putting the panels up xtknight, it does make things a bit clearer. Yes I guess I did single out the P-MVA (or to a lesser extent the S-IPS) panels as being my best bet since every review I see about them talks of their abilities as all-round monitors, not only suited to just one particular area in which they excel.

I have to admit I have my own misgivings over the Viewsonic and Belinea models simply due to their age (and therefore possible lack of support), and whereas I thought the Dell might be an option, it has just jumped in price here from £249 to £320 which seems far too much as I would buy the NEC 20WGX2 if I had budgeted that high. Your doubts about the Asus screen are also enough for me to consider it no further (and it is more expensive than I had thought...£323).

I had only picked that Philips model since it seemed logical that the company who helped develop the 20" S-IPS panel might be able to implement it well themselves. Although as you say it appears to be a lottery between that and a P-MVA (not exactly as hard to bear as the S, A, C fiasco with the Samsung monitors). It also got a rather good write up from PC Pro (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/labs/10...illiance-200wp7es.html), Custom PC (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/customp...?searchString=200wp7es) and Computer Shopper (http://www.pcpro.co.uk/shopper...?searchString=200wp7es), although their collective approach seems more subjective than anything else. Their main objection of price is no longer much of an issue as you'll see below.

About the Acers. When I downloaded the latest price list (http://www.acer.co.uk/acereuro...2/Monitor%20LCD_UK.pdf) from Acer's uk site, I found it to have a fairly detailed specification on both the models I'm looking at. The al2032wa is listed as a S-IPS panel not a P-MVA, it's actually also one of the cheaper models here for some reason, so I'm still giving it serious consideration. What I read about the al2051ws worries me though. I know it is meant to be a P-MVA panel and you recommend it quite highly, but on this same price list I was looking at, this is what it has listed:

"Panel Technology - TN film and CrystalBrite Technology"

Is it possible that they could have changed panel type to cut costs or suchlike? Or is it likely just a blunder on their part?

Anyway, after all that, I would be narrowed down to these:

Acer al2032wa - £196.54 [S-IPS/P-MVA, glossy]
Acer al2051ws - £240.35 [P-MVA/(TN...?), glossy]
Philips 200wp7es - £255.94 [S-IPS/P-MVA, glossy]

Sorry for the long post by the way but, for me, the buying of this LCD is quite a big thing and I don't want to go regretting my choice when I finally make it.

Honestly the Philips may be your best bet due to brand. Being in the UK, you're lucky you have such a good option, so take advantage of it!

Originally posted by: Aflac
Since I'm very bad at making my own decisions, I'm going to post in this thread about my own (and I'm sure many others') dilemma.

Samsung 226BW or LG L226WT?

The Samsung is about $50 cheaper and is widely available, whereas I have to go hunting for the LG...

so I guess the real question here is, is the LG really worth it? Originally I was afraid of the Samsung three-panel lottery, but now that all Samsung monitors have that S panel, I don't think I would mind as much.

However, I'm sitting here with a 914v and being quite happy about it. I don't really think I'm that picky about monitors, but I don't really have many options in the way of trying stuff out.

I'm bad at making decisions too, especially other people's decisions.

If the extra picture quality of the LG is worth it to you then go for it. Would I? Certainly...I'm a geek...I always have to have the best whenever it's in my reach.

Samsung has not stuck to their promise, and are still putting C and A panels in their monitor. In fact, latest reports show no S panels. Would you want to give money to a company that does that? Neither would I.

If you're really attracted by the 226BW's lower price point then wait it out and see if Samsung smartens up. If not, the L226WT will always be there.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Beatbox
I'm currently using a 19" CRT that I can't really stand anymore. It's starting to get more and more blurry, and I want widescreen desperately. I would love a 24" (The LG one on sale currently for 580 CDN) but I'm scared of the 1920x1200 native resolution. I'm the typical "poor" student, so I can't upgrade every year to keep playing games on max settings at such high resolution.

I'm building a new rig in a few months, possibly one or two, that should be very close to this:

Antec P180 Case
BFG Nforce 680i LT SLI Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 Processor
BFG Geforce 8800 GTX Video Card
4GB (2x 2gb) Memory PC2-5400 DDR2-667
DVD Burner
Seagate Barracuda 320gb
OCZ GameXstream 700W

...with a second 8800GTX in 1-2 year(s).

Otherwise, 22" is the next bigger screen, with a smaller native resolution, but the TN qualities and such leave me skeptical. 20 inches seem a little small, and while I'd get duals, while gaming it's not the same feel as a big 24''...

Should I be worried of the big resolution of the 24"?? Thanks in advance.

BTW, the monitor would be used for lots of gaming, multimedia stuff (web desinging, photoshop, etc) and office work.

Worried with an 8800GTX (or two)? I think not. Honestly what's the worst that could happen? 60 FPS?

Use the video card to its fullest extent and get a 24" 1920x1200.

Originally posted by: systemf99
Been lurking here trying to find which monitor to buy, was going to come down to an LG 20" or the Acer al2051w.

Happen to see a display of an al2051w at a Staples, but could not find it online (or in any other locations of Staples). Turns out that certain Staples had it, but very limited and is being cleared out. The stores I saw it only had a display model and the price tag said $209 on sale (could have bought the display for 10% off that), eventuall found one store that had a brand new one, and the price rang up $179. I am in the OC area, and there was only one other stores that had stock in this district. So if you are looking for one, serious YMMV, though worth a look maybe.

Anyways thanks for all the advice here, the monitor is much better than the generic 19" Norcent I was using. Looks great, I can read text much easier, where I thought my eyesight was getting worse, and the increased level of detail is great to. Do want to tweak it though even maybe get a calibrator.

I kinda lost you there, I assume you ended up with the AL2051W. Glad you're happy with it. Thanks for the report.

Originally posted by: emelius
superb!...thanks for the heads up...with the $50 price hike @ the egg, this news is quite refreshing...i realize MMMV...but nevertheless, i appreciate the post...

& btw, the $100 rebate on the 20wmgx2 has been extended...

Nice.

Originally posted by: Machinus
Is the L245WP-BN (LG) an IPS panel? If so, has anyone tested response times and color quality on this monitor? What about on the the LM240WU1 (LG Philips)?

No, the L245WP uses a P-MVA manufactured by AU Optronics. The LM240WU1 (S-IPS) is used in the NEC LCD2490WUxi and nothing else AFAIK.

 

[Machinus]

Thanks for the replies : )

I'd like a 20-24" IPS that has fast response, for gaming and movies. The WMGX is great but a little too expensive for a 20" ATM...and the 22"s are all TNs. Is there a candidate among the 23/4" monitors (on the market now or in the near future) which might have what I'm looking for? As far as I can tell IPS is just rare among all sizes in this range.

 

[Machinus]

I don't know how good this monitor is but it's cheap today:

AL2416WB
$430 shipped

http://www.buy.com/retail/prod...04523945&loc=111&sp=1&*****

 

[Steve]

A friend of mine called me and left me a voicemail asking for my recommendation, he says that TigerDirect (I'm thinking he might have walked in) has the Samsung 244BW for $440 and wants my yea or nay on it. He also says that Costco has it for $500 (they do have the 245BW). Is this a decent monitor? Knowing him it would need to be a jack of all trades - PhotoShop, games, movies.

 

[Nullvoid]

Thanks for the help xtknight + BernardP! I think I am going to opt for that Philips model since it ticks all my boxes really, the price is quite steep but it's not like I'm going to rush out and buy another LCD monitor in a year's time...or even 2/3 year's time come to think of it...I guess my only reservation is that I won't be able to see one in person before making the purchase.

Since it has had relatively poor coverage I might try and do a little mini-review when I get around to buying it (sometime mid-late July). On a sort of related note, would I be wasting my money by also purchasing something like the Pantone huey? As I said I don't do any work with photos, but I would hate for the monitor to arrive with poorly calibrated colours since it's not something I would feel all that confident about adjusting manually (talk of temperatures and suchlike just goes over my head).

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Aflac
Since I'm very bad at making my own decisions, I'm going to post in this thread about my own (and I'm sure many others') dilemma.

Samsung 226BW or LG L226WT?

The Samsung is about $50 cheaper and is widely available, whereas I have to go hunting for the LG...

so I guess the real question here is, is the LG really worth it? Originally I was afraid of the Samsung three-panel lottery, but now that all Samsung monitors have that S panel, I don't think I would mind as much.

However, I'm sitting here with a 914v and being quite happy about it. I don't really think I'm that picky about monitors, but I don't really have many options in the way of trying stuff out.

I'm bad at making decisions too, especially other people's decisions.

If the extra picture quality of the LG is worth it to you then go for it. Would I? Certainly...I'm a geek...I always have to have the best whenever it's in my reach.

Samsung has not stuck to their promise, and are still putting C and A panels in their monitor. In fact, latest reports show no S panels. Would you want to give money to a company that does that? Neither would I.

If you're really attracted by the 226BW's lower price point then wait it out and see if Samsung smartens up. If not, the L226WT will always be there.

Actually, that's exactly what I'm afraid of... it's really hard to find an L226WT that isn't a Q or a Y =X In fact, it's still kinda hard to find an L226WT at all (226BWs are definitely much easier to find).

Guess I'll take a stroll through my neighborhood B&Ms to see what they've got.

 

[mamamia]

I'm ordering the NEC 2690 basic model. Don't feel like adding an extra $300 for the calibration system bundled.

But what are the best options for calibration options out there that I can purchase (for less than $300 obviously...)... I'm totaly ignorant in the field of calibration, mind you...

And, just wondering, as a Macintosh user, is MANUALY adjusting the settings of the monitor against say, a photograph or a printed color swatch -- available?...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Machinus
Thanks for the replies : )

I'd like a 20-24" IPS that has fast response, for gaming and movies. The WMGX is great but a little too expensive for a 20" ATM...and the 22"s are all TNs. Is there a candidate among the 23/4" monitors (on the market now or in the near future) which might have what I'm looking for? As far as I can tell IPS is just rare among all sizes in this range.

It is indeed rare. You've got the 23" Apple which is overpriced and other 23"s which are very hard to find. And the NEC LCD2490WUxi which is also prohibitively expensive...

Suddenly the NEC 20WMGX2 at ~$470 doesn't sound so bad.

Originally posted by: Machinus
I don't know how good this monitor is but it's cheap today:

AL2416WB
$430 shipped

http://www.buy.com/retail/prod...04523945&loc=111&sp=1&*****

TN...

Originally posted by: Steve
A friend of mine called me and left me a voicemail asking for my recommendation, he says that TigerDirect (I'm thinking he might have walked in) has the Samsung 244BW for $440 and wants my yea or nay on it. He also says that Costco has it for $500 (they do have the 245BW). Is this a decent monitor? Knowing him it would need to be a jack of all trades - PhotoShop, games, movies.

I'm not really sure. There haven't been any reviews of it. I believe both are TNs though so if it were me I'd be staying away. I saw a 24" TN (245BW) at the store next to a 24" S-PVA (Gateway) and 24" P-MVA (LG), and the TN really fell short for color reproduction. Viewing angles were pretty poor as well. Not worth it IMO. I'd much rather have the 20WMGX2 for the same price, any day.

Originally posted by: Nullvoid
Thanks for the help xtknight + BernardP! I think I am going to opt for that Philips model since it ticks all my boxes really, the price is quite steep but it's not like I'm going to rush out and buy another LCD monitor in a year's time...or even 2/3 year's time come to think of it...I guess my only reservation is that I won't be able to see one in person before making the purchase.

Since it has had relatively poor coverage I might try and do a little mini-review when I get around to buying it (sometime mid-late July). On a sort of related note, would I be wasting my money by also purchasing something like the Pantone huey? As I said I don't do any work with photos, but I would hate for the monitor to arrive with poorly calibrated colours since it's not something I would feel all that confident about adjusting manually (talk of temperatures and suchlike just goes over my head).

That wouldn't be such a bad idea. No human can reliably calibrate a monitor. I'm no better than I was 5 years ago at it. The colorimeter not only provides a way for you to measure the accuracy, but it also adjusts it for you. It's a stark contrast to just adjusting it "in the dark", so to speak.

The Spyder2 (even Express) colorimeter's a much better choice, BTW. The Huey actually made things worse in this review: http://www.behardware.com/arti...tion-for-0-to-100.html

Originally posted by: Aflac
Actually, that's exactly what I'm afraid of... it's really hard to find an L226WT that isn't a Q or a Y =X In fact, it's still kinda hard to find an L226WT at all (226BWs are definitely much easier to find).

Guess I'll take a stroll through my neighborhood B&Ms to see what they've got.

The L226WTX is the exact same model as the L226WT.

Fairly sure the L226WTY is the exact same thing as the L226WTQ, which is no longer problematic. The Y on Newegg should be just fine. In fact, since the Y is new it's probably 100% likely to have the new problem-less firmware.

Originally posted by: mamamia
I'm ordering the NEC 2690 basic model. Don't feel like adding an extra $300 for the calibration system bundled.

But what are the best options for calibration options out there that I can purchase (for less than $300 obviously...)... I'm totaly ignorant in the field of calibration, mind you...

And, just wondering, as a Macintosh user, is MANUALY adjusting the settings of the monitor against say, a photograph or a printed color swatch -- available?...

The Spyder2 Express is probably the best choice by far for a cheap colorimeter: http://www.google.com/products...rch+Products&q=spyder2

Adjusting it manually really isn't suitable. It's very difficult if not impossible and yields mixed results all the time.

 

[mamamia]

The Spyder2 Express is probably the best choice by far for a cheap colorimeter: http://www.google.com/products...rch+Products&q=spyder2

---- Wait, wait, WHICH one of those many versions (?) of this product?? Why so many versions and prices? The first one got 4 stars and priced at only $72.38? I'd take it now....

...Should I?...

 

[Beatbox]

Thanks for the input, xtknight.

One more question though, before I settle my mind. What do you think of the LG L246-WP? I can have it for 570 CDN for today and tomorrow. I heard the BenQ was slightly better, but it's also about 200$ more, and I'm not sure I could really see the difference, anyway, this is my first LCD...

 

[mushroomx]

Hey xtknight, i was wondering if you saw the w2207 in person, because i thought it looks stunning and it even has 1:1 aspect ratio. Now my question is, should i exchange my l226wt for the w2007 (which is slightly more expensive)? I need to make a decision soon because im over my 14 days limit at futureshop and hopefully they will allow me to upgrade. I find that the l226wt is very bad with different shades of black and i was hoping the w2007 will be better at that area... Whats your opinion on my situation?

 

[imaheadcase]

UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC 24-inch is on USA dell website! $679

What do you think xtknight? Should I wait, or you think it will be that price for awhile since its newer? Or should I wait for more USA reviews?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mamamia

The Spyder2 Express is probably the best choice by far for a cheap colorimeter: http://www.google.com/products...rch+Products&q=spyder2

---- Wait, wait, WHICH one of those many versions (?) of this product?? Why so many versions and prices? The first one got 4 stars and priced at only $72.38? I'd take it now....

...Should I?...

Whichever you can afford. The $80 Express is the best cheap one. Likewise the expensive Spyder2 is one of the best colorimeters out there.

Originally posted by: Beatbox
Thanks for the input, xtknight.

One more question though, before I settle my mind. What do you think of the LG L246-WP? I can have it for 570 CDN for today and tomorrow. I heard the BenQ was slightly better, but it's also about 200$ more, and I'm not sure I could really see the difference, anyway, this is my first LCD...

Just get the LG. It uses the same panel. Not worth worrying about minor differences. The LG is probably better in one way or another, too.

Originally posted by: mushroomx
Hey xtknight, i was wondering if you saw the w2207 in person, because i thought it looks stunning and it even has 1:1 aspect ratio. Now my question is, should i exchange my l226wt for the w2007 (which is slightly more expensive)? I need to make a decision soon because im over my 14 days limit at futureshop and hopefully they will allow me to upgrade. I find that the l226wt is very bad with different shades of black and i was hoping the w2007 will be better at that area... Whats your opinion on my situation?

I think I saw the w2007 in person but not the w2207. I do already recommend the w2207, of course, on my list. No, you should not exchange your L226WT. There's nothing wrong with the L226WT at all. I think the w2207 has worse grayscale and uniformity although maybe browsing through the HardForum thread would give you the real answer. Something makes me think you're going to regret getting rid of the L226WT, though. The only tangible benefit I can see is the glossy coating but I'm pretty sure it had a couple drawbacks compared to the L226WT. I haven't yet seen a definitive, reliable comparison of the two though, I'm only going off what I hear. I have tested the L226WT personally and I'm confident it's one of the best TNs ever made.

Originally posted by: imaheadcase
UltraSharp 2407WFP-HC 24-inch is on USA dell website! $679

What do you think xtknight? Should I wait, or you think it will be that price for awhile since its newer? Or should I wait for more USA reviews?

I'd just get it now. The 2407WFP-HC is on my wish list, that's for sure. I can't officially recommend it yet due to a lack of reviews, but personally I'd take the gamble. Honestly what's the worst that could happen? Great LCD with a couple minor flaws? Great price too.

It sure fills in the 20WMGX2's minor flaws: a slightly lower contrast and lower gamut.

 

[imaheadcase]

I'm sure its going to be popular, so reviews of it should be forthcoming soon enough. I can wait a week or so for one before i order to make sure

 

[mushroomx]

Hey xtknight, im just curious, since the w2207 stands out so much compared to all the other monitors on display (the colours look saturated and vibrant), is it all because of the glossy coating? and do you also think that the dark shades of black are very bad for the l226wt?

edit: for the shades of black what i mean is that i cant see the difference for #1-5 in the contrast test @ http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mushroomx
Hey xtknight, im just curious, since the w2207 stands out so much compared to all the other monitors on display (the colours look saturated and vibrant), is it all because of the glossy coating? and do you also think that the dark shades of black are very bad for the l226wt?

Yeah, it's mostly the glossy coating.

The L226WT's display of the darker tones isn't stellar either, but after calibration it's better as far as I remember. I have a profile in my profiles thread (link to it on my website).

 

[mushroomx]

hey xtknight, i tried your settings, however i can't stand sRGB, if i go to http://www.futureshop.ca/catal...25074&logon=&langid=EN I can't see the shades of grey separating each spec. Right now im using factory settings with brightness down to 45 and contrast down to 30 (but im trying 50 right now), can you tell me what you think about these settings? the only problem is that in games its too dark sometimes but if i turn up the contrast, the sky is too bright that is of course with brightness turned to max first

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mushroomx
hey xtknight, i tried your settings, however i can't stand sRGB, if i go to http://www.futureshop.ca/catal...25074&logon=&langid=EN I can't see the shades of grey separating each spec. Right now im using factory settings with brightness down to 45 and contrast down to 30 (but im trying 50 right now), can you tell me what you think about these settings? the only problem is that in games its too dark sometimes but if i turn up the contrast, the sky is too bright that is of course with brightness turned to max first

My dad is in possession of the LCD now and as such testing it isn't so convenient.

If you can't see the alternating lines of color in the table, that surprises me. It is a lighter shade of gray, and usually lighter shades of gray can be clipped off by using too high of brightness or contrast. Too high of individual R/G/B user color settings can also cause the problem. (But you said you were using sRGB...)

Maybe you need a gamma adjustment too.

Did you try my ICM (containing a custom gamma correction table) or just the monitor settings?

While people have told me the 20WMGX2 profile improved things a lot (for the NEC, obviously), I haven't heard very positive feedback about the L226WT profile. Maybe L226WT units vary a lot more, I'm not sure.