[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mattmatteh
the comparison on http://www.digitalversus.com/duels.php and the review on behardware.com suggest that the benq fp241wz is a pva panel, i thought it was amva. any idea how 2 sites could be wrong or is the benq in fact a pva ?

matt

I thought BeHardware discovered it was an S-PVA due to its use of Samsung's motion blanking tech, but I don't know any more than that.

Originally posted by: GEOrifle
Xtknight i'm thinking to get SAMSUNG LCD TV 26" for $700(or 23" for $600) instead to buy just 22" LCD PC monitor for $350. Your opinion please: where i'm gona win and where to lose? (going to combine it at one spot for PC+TV, maybe it su*ks?).

Thanks.



22" SAMSUNG LCD TV
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16889102123

26" SAMSUNG LCD TV
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16889102126

That is a 23" TV, but it has the same resolution as the 26". That means the 23" would have a smaller dot pitch, making it better for PC use as long as size isn't really a concern.

I don't quite understand how you're going to make a 22" PC monitor a TV though. Is there a specific multimedia model you found or are you going to use a PCI TV tuner?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Skott
I been out of the LCD loop since my last buy last year so looking for an update on the LG Flatron 22". Supposedly the best 22" for multimedia and gaming. I'm gonna order next week so thought I'd start doing my final research. My local Circuit City has the L226WTQBF in stock. I'm going to go look at it this weekend sometime but wanted to get any latest updates about it. XKnight's guide says many of the problems have been fixed in later models. Anyone got one and have an opinion wether its good or not? I'll be using it for gaming mainly when not surfing the web.

P.S. I know the 22' LCDs dont have the best panels compared to 20, 21, and 24 inch LCDs but I'm wanting a 22" anyway.

I am sure the latest revision (1.14+) has fixed the problems on the Qs, but of course there is no guarantee the units at your store or warehouse will have that firmware.

Like I mentioned earlier though my dad has a L226WT non-Q and he loves it (I also loved it from the tests I ran through). I don't think the Q is that different, other than the fact it enables response time compensation.

 

[Skott]

Thanks, Xknight. I guess in the end I'll have to play video lotto and see how I like the monitor. If I find its not good I'll have to replace it for something else.

 

[Ika]

Okay, so I got my 216BW in the mail today. First thoughts - yay, it looks GREAT! Then I plugged it in. Yay, it looks great!

Alright, for serious. To be honest, I don't think there's anything spectacular about this monitor; compared to my original 914v 19" LCD, it looks "better", but not really by much. It is still definitely TN, and has all the inherent flaws of TN. The size is nice; I don't feel that I've lost anything by "downgrading" from 22" to 21.6". I ran the tests on lcdresource.com and the 216BW passed with good grades; I was particularly surprised at gray level performance; my previous LCD could not show any different at all between the different shades; with the 216BW, all the boxes are quite evident.

While I play around with this monitor some more, I've got one question to ask - I think I have some color banding issues on this monitor. Before I start spreading the news, though, I guess I need to clarify. On the full-screen banding programs on lcdresource, my monitor has a hard time distinguishing the two levels on the far right (the two sections on the far end; most colors have this problem). From the front, it's rather difficult to tell the difference between the sections. HOWEVER, if I move my head like two feet to the right (so that I'm looking at the screen from the right extreme angle, I can see that there is a difference. From what I understand, color banding occurs when the monitor has problems mapping the colors. If this is true, should I not be able to see the difference at any angle?

 

[GEOrifle]

I don't know why but NOONE buys 23-26"($600-800) HDTV's over crapy LCD monitors and you can use as TV and PC monitor. Prices are same.
Anyone?

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: GEOrifle
I don't know why but NOONE buys 23-26"($600-800) HDTV's over crapy LCD monitors and you can use as TV and PC monitor. Prices are same.
Anyone?

Why are HDTVs better?

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: GEOrifle
I don't know why but NOONE buys 23-26"($600-800) HDTV's over crapy LCD monitors and you can use as TV and PC monitor. Prices are same.
Anyone?

Prices of good 24 to 26 inch monitors are also $600-$800. They are not "crapy". They have much higher resolution (1920x1200) than a similar size TV (1366x768)

A computer monitor has a 16:10 aspect ratio, while a TV has a 16:9 ratio.

You can watch TV on a computer monitor if you choose a model with the proper inputs and have a separate tumer, such as a cable box.

 

[DRavisher]

LG.Philips has released specs for a new 30" panel, news article here. LG.Philips lists "MP Schedule" as sep '07. What does this mean (that is, what is MP short for?). Is it likely that we will be seeing displays based on this panel as early as september?

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: DRavisher
LG.Philips has released specs for a new 30" panel, news article here. LG.Philips lists "MP Schedule" as sep '07. What does this mean (that is, what is MP short for?). Is it likely that we will be seeing displays based on this panel as early as september?

Corrected link to LG-Philips monitor panel main page. There is something on the page that prevents linking directly to one specific panel.

The new 92% gamut 22-inch panel LM220WE3 is MP Jul 07 and will be used in the new LG L227WT expected for end of summer/early fall. So if the new 30-incher is MP Sept, there should also be a slight delay before a monitor using it appears.

The new 30-inch panel could possibly be used to upgrade the current Dell 30 inch monitor. Would make a nice Christmas gift!

I also had seen the new wide-gamut 24-inch TN from LG Philips. So now, Samsung, AUOptronics and LG-Philips already are going the 24-inch TN route, with the latter two being wide-gamut. Grab that 24 inch *VA panel while you can...

AU Optronics wide-gamut 24-inch TN panel production third quarter 2007

MP means the panel's production date. But the exact letters? Manufacturing Production? Main Production? Maybe xtknight knows.

 

[Skott]

Originally posted by: GEOrifle
I don't know why but NOONE buys 23-26"($600-800) HDTV's over crapy LCD monitors and you can use as TV and PC monitor. Prices are same.
Anyone?

Price alone is one reason. If I wanted to spend $600 I'd get that 20" NEC 20WMGX2 thats best for gaming. Unfortuantely for me I need to stay in the $300 range.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Aflac
While I play around with this monitor some more, I've got one question to ask - I think I have some color banding issues on this monitor. Before I start spreading the news, though, I guess I need to clarify. On the full-screen banding programs on lcdresource, my monitor has a hard time distinguishing the two levels on the far right (the two sections on the far end; most colors have this problem). From the front, it's rather difficult to tell the difference between the sections. HOWEVER, if I move my head like two feet to the right (so that I'm looking at the screen from the right extreme angle, I can see that there is a difference. From what I understand, color banding occurs when the monitor has problems mapping the colors. If this is true, should I not be able to see the difference at any angle?

Different angles let out different amounts of light (the monitor's picture gets distorted). This is expected behavior. You want to test what it looks like when you're looking right in front of screen, because hardly anyone uses their monitor from the left or right angle most of the time.

Originally posted by: GEOrifle
I don't know why but NOONE buys 23-26"($600-800) HDTV's over crapy LCD monitors and you can use as TV and PC monitor. Prices are same.
Anyone?

Because they don't always input graphics properly from the computer, they have huge pixels, they have an odd/low resolution, they are more expensive at less quality, and they downscale, so the PC input is probably useless. I guess the question is, why would anybody buy a 23-26" TV, unless it's for the living room? Some (the more expensive ones) have an HDTV tuner but you can get external HDTV tuners and more customizable HDTV PCI tuner boards (w/ DVR) for your PC for less overall.

Originally posted by: DRavisher
LG.Philips has released specs for a new 30" panel, news article here. LG.Philips lists "MP Schedule" as sep '07. What does this mean (that is, what is MP short for?). Is it likely that we will be seeing displays based on this panel as early as september?

MP = Mass Production

In other words, when they start producing panels for the public using their fabs. They only have prototypes right now and a vision that they can start MP'ing soon.

LPL (LG Philips LCD) is moving towards a very predictable goal though (making all their panels TNs). Next up will be 30" TNs if they're feasible.

P.S. HP w2207 available for $250 at Sears (in OP).

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
MP = Mass Production

Of course. I knew that. Not proud of myself...

Originally posted by: xtknight
LPL (LG Philips LCD) is moving towards a very predictable goal though (making all their panels TNs). Next up will be 30" TNs if they're feasible.

There is already that 27.5 inch Viewsonic. The trick with a 30 inch TN panel will be to look at it from far... far... away to minimize viewing angles problems.

 

[Ika]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Aflac
While I play around with this monitor some more, I've got one question to ask - I think I have some color banding issues on this monitor. Before I start spreading the news, though, I guess I need to clarify. On the full-screen banding programs on lcdresource, my monitor has a hard time distinguishing the two levels on the far right (the two sections on the far end; most colors have this problem). From the front, it's rather difficult to tell the difference between the sections. HOWEVER, if I move my head like two feet to the right (so that I'm looking at the screen from the right extreme angle, I can see that there is a difference. From what I understand, color banding occurs when the monitor has problems mapping the colors. If this is true, should I not be able to see the difference at any angle?

Different angles let out different amounts of light (the monitor's picture gets distorted). This is expected behavior. You want to test what it looks like when you're looking right in front of screen, because hardly anyone uses their monitor from the left or right angle most of the time.

Well... I know that, but I was wondering specifically how "color banding" worked. Mostly, my main question was "From what I understand, color banding occurs when the monitor has problems mapping the colors. If this is true, should I not be able to see the difference at any angle?".

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Aflac

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Aflac
While I play around with this monitor some more, I've got one question to ask - I think I have some color banding issues on this monitor. Before I start spreading the news, though, I guess I need to clarify. On the full-screen banding programs on lcdresource, my monitor has a hard time distinguishing the two levels on the far right (the two sections on the far end; most colors have this problem). From the front, it's rather difficult to tell the difference between the sections. HOWEVER, if I move my head like two feet to the right (so that I'm looking at the screen from the right extreme angle, I can see that there is a difference. From what I understand, color banding occurs when the monitor has problems mapping the colors. If this is true, should I not be able to see the difference at any angle?

Different angles let out different amounts of light (the monitor's picture gets distorted). This is expected behavior. You want to test what it looks like when you're looking right in front of screen, because hardly anyone uses their monitor from the left or right angle most of the time.

Well... I know that, but I was wondering specifically how "color banding" worked. Mostly, my main question was "From what I understand, color banding occurs when the monitor has problems mapping the colors. If this is true, should I not be able to see the difference at any angle?".

Hrm, it's not really a "mapping" (gamma) problem, it's just that the contrast is too high or other factors like dynamic contrast/etc can influence it too...

Different angles will greatly skew the monitor's image, so viewing from an extreme angle is not an accurate judge of its banding. Different angles reduce contrast significantly, in turn reducing banding. But reducing contrast has more adverse effects than its reduction of banding, including ..well, loss of contrast, if you can visualize that. It doesn't look as "purdy".

 

[xtknight]

About adding larger screens to the OP (which had been a request here), I'm up for suggestions, honestly. But, none of the 26" panels that I know of (except the expensive NEC H-IPS) are non-TN, and you know how reluctant I am to recommend TN displays over 23". I don't keep track of every single thing released on the planet though, so like I said I'm open to suggestions or models I may have missed. But even if there is such a panel out there, I don't think it's been reviewed so recommending it is going to be difficult. I already have the Dell 2707WFP (27") recommended, and I dislike the 30" LCDs' lack of controls but I may find myself adding the 30" S-IPS displays anyway (most likely the Dell 3007WFP and/or HP LP3065).

 

[QueHuong]

Hi xtknight, thanks for the comprehensive information.

I do photography and am keeping a close eye on the Samsung 971p and Viewsonic VP930b; these are the ones that fall into my price range. However, I am unsure as to which to choose, both in terms of their strengths and their risks. Since I watch movies too, I'm not sure if the Samsung would be good due to their ghosting problems. Consumer reviews have also stated nightmares with their drivers and applications, mainly incompatible programs with each other (e.g. Samsung MagicTune and their own driver or something like that) and incompatible drivers with NVIDA cards. The risks with Viewsonic is that I worry about getting the bad revision. Can you recommend an LCD given my concerns or even another LCD around that price range?

From Hard Forum's, I'm thinking of hunting down a vendor that sells the IPS HP LP2065. If I do find one, how does it compare to the LCDs above?

Also, you said you wouldn't recommend the Pantone Huey, but what about the Huey Pro? I have that currently and hope my purchase wasn't a bad one.

 

[alins]

Sony intros 24-inch VGP-D24WD1 monitor

http://www.engadget.com/2007/0...ch-vgp-d24wd1-monitor/

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: QueHuong
Hi xtknight, thanks for the comprehensive information.

I do photography and am keeping a close eye on the Samsung 971p and Viewsonic VP930b; these are the ones that fall into my price range. However, I am unsure as to which to choose, both in terms of their strengths and their risks. Since I watch movies too, I'm not sure if the Samsung would be good due to their ghosting problems. Consumer reviews have also stated nightmares with their drivers and applications, mainly incompatible programs with each other (e.g. Samsung MagicTune and their own driver or something like that) and incompatible drivers with NVIDA cards. The risks with Viewsonic is that I worry about getting the bad revision. Can you recommend an LCD given my concerns or even another LCD around that price range?

Well ViewSonic's software also sucks and doesn't work on any of my PCs. But Samsung's on the other hand, has.

If I were you I'd go for the ViewSonic VP930b. It's a nice display and I'm pretty sure you'll only get rev. 3s these days anyway. It's been ages since rev. 3 was released.

From Hard Forum's, I'm thinking of hunting down a vendor that sells the IPS HP LP2065. If I do find one, how does it compare to the LCDs above?

It's an IPS so all normal things apply: wider viewing angle, more accurate colors. But, it's probably not as high contrast, making it less suitable for multimedia than the VP930b/971P. Also IPS panels have more "twinkling" in movies (they show artifacts easier since they are more accurate).

Also, you said you wouldn't recommend the Pantone Huey, but what about the Huey Pro? I have that currently and hope my purchase wasn't a bad one.

http://dpnow.com/4042.html

 

[drsrirams]

How do I find out what panel my samsung 216BW has in it? should i assume that because of the price [250$] it is being for, it comes with a c panel??? please let me know, thanks...

 

[wpeng]

Hmm, it seems the good 'ol 4:3 aspect ratio is falling out of favor fast. I much prefer squarish screens to widescreens for things like digital painting because you tend to see more at once. Then again I could get a monster with 1920x1200 resolution, but that wouldn't be for my budget.

 

[shadyguido]

There seems to be some talk of the apple 20", but what is the word on the apple 23" cinema display? Is it as good as the 20"? Better? Ghosting? What kind of panel?

xtknight, I've referred this thread to all of my friends. BALLER.

 

[wongste]

Hi xtknight,

thanks for all the work you've put into this thread. It's a great resource.

I'm searching for an LCD for primarily photo-editing and post processing and I am facing a decision.

I first started out looking for a suitable 22" and since all of them were TNs, I found myself looking at th 24"s. The non-HC Dell 2407 is almost impossible to find now - the only place I see it for sale is on ebay and I don't know what sort of warranty comes with that.

So it looks like I'm left with either the BenQ FP241W, or the HC version of the 2407. (The NEC 2490WUXI would be great but I can't justify spending $1500). Have you seen any reliable reviews of the 2407HC model?

Also, I have seen for myself the viewing angle problem on TN screens. I use a Dell E196FP at work. I find it quite unsuitable for photo-editing.

How much better is the FP214W or 2407 over a TN screen as far as viewing angle is concerned? Or conversely, how much worse are they over an S-IPS screen. My biggest peeve for the TN screen is how the color tone changes, as well as the "EV" or brightness as you move mere inches vertically in either direction.

I don't think there's a store anywhere near me (Northern NJ) where I can go to take a look myself for comparison purposes. The local Best Buy carries the 24" Apple Imac and to me, that screen looked great. Is that an S-IPS? That's the model where the whole computer is integrated into the monitor.

Thanks for all your effort.

 

[Aversion]

Thanks to the advice in this thread I've been looking for the Dell non-HC 2407 as well, but with no luck. Dell Canada seem to have withdrawn it in favour of just offering the HC version. I mainly use a laptop with a 1920x1200 screen and I'm reluctant to go back to a smaller screen res even if I'm going to be using a desktop, it seems silly to get a 20"+ lcd with less screen 'estate' than my laptop. I'm considering picking up the 2407 on ebay, some of these sellers have nothing but thousands of positive feedback and say the warranty is still valid (most of the time these are 'returned' models, refurbished etc with Dell warrantees but not sold by Dell).

The BenQ FP241W looks interesting though, and with an HDMI port.

 

[QuantumPion]

Now that Sony has come out with a micro laptop using an LED backlit LCD, how long until we see desktop 20-24" LED LCD's?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: drsrirams
How do I find out what panel my samsung 216BW has in it? should i assume that because of the price [250$] it is being for, it comes with a c panel??? please let me know, thanks...

At this point, I don't know. I thought it was a Samsung TN.

Originally posted by: wpeng
Hmm, it seems the good 'ol 4:3 aspect ratio is falling out of favor fast. I much prefer squarish screens to widescreens for things like digital painting because you tend to see more at once. Then again I could get a monster with 1920x1200 resolution, but that wouldn't be for my budget.

I can pretty much assure you there will be no mainstream >21.3" LCDs with a 5:4 or 4:3 aspect ratio.

Originally posted by: shadyguido
There seems to be some talk of the apple 20", but what is the word on the apple 23" cinema display? Is it as good as the 20"? Better? Ghosting? What kind of panel?

Welcome to the forums.

The 23" is an 8-bit S-IPS (wide viewing angles). It has more ghosting than the 20", but probably in the realm of 20 ms or so. It should be OK for gaming, just not as good as some LCDs. Its color reproduction is probably about the same.

Originally posted by: wongste
Hi xtknight,

thanks for all the work you've put into this thread. It's a great resource.

Welcome to the forums.

I'm searching for an LCD for primarily photo-editing and post processing and I am facing a decision.

I first started out looking for a suitable 22" and since all of them were TNs, I found myself looking at th 24"s. The non-HC Dell 2407 is almost impossible to find now - the only place I see it for sale is on ebay and I don't know what sort of warranty comes with that.

So it looks like I'm left with either the BenQ FP241W, or the HC version of the 2407. (The NEC 2490WUXI would be great but I can't justify spending $1500). Have you seen any reliable reviews of the 2407HC model?

No, I haven't.

Also, I have seen for myself the viewing angle problem on TN screens. I use a Dell E196FP at work. I find it quite unsuitable for photo-editing.

How much better is the FP214W or 2407 over a TN screen as far as viewing angle is concerned?

Or conversely, how much worse are they over an S-IPS screen. My biggest peeve for the TN screen is how the color tone changes, as well as the "EV" or brightness as you move mere inches vertically in either direction.

They're much better, almost as good as an S-IPS in many cases but not quite there.

VAs don't have as much of that fading or grayscale inversion problem. They have slight yellow/purple tints at certain angles, but nothing too bad most of the time. VAs are the only type of panel that block some light at a perpendicular (straight) angle, though, so some details may be missing.

I don't think there's a store anywhere near me (Northern NJ) where I can go to take a look myself for comparison purposes. The local Best Buy carries the 24" Apple Imac and to me, that screen looked great. Is that an S-IPS? That's the model where the whole computer is integrated into the monitor.

I think the 24" iMac is an S-PVA but I can't confirm that. All reports seem to indicate that, but also some indicate an inability to calibrate it properly.

http://photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=00Jzs8

Thanks for all your effort.

My pleasure.