[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Montius]

Fabulous resource you've got going here xtknight, the time and effort you put into it is exceptional and greatly appreciated.

On that note, I'm hoping someone can help me out with some advice. I'm running a 19" ViewSonic CRT at the moment and have been considering getting an LCD for quite some time, and what it's basically come down to is the Dell 2407-HC or going dual with a 20WMGX2 and probably another, cheaper 20".

The main uses for the monitor will be gaming and 3D work. I'd really have rather waited to grab a monitor but with the 2407 $100 cheaper until August 8th, I'm really tempted to jump on it. A few pages back you made a statement of the 2407 being an excellent monitor; would you be more inclined to recommend the 20WMGX2 with a 2nd 20" as a dual setup, or the 2407?

I'm totally torn between the two because a 24" monitor sounds spectacular coming from something with a 17.1" viewable screen, but my 3D work, and the fear of games lagging (performance, not response/input lag) at such high res is making me consider the 20WMGX2.

Oh, and one question that I've been curious about for a while. If I had a 24" monitor, without scaling, can it be run at a lower res? What I mean by this is, can the actual screen size be decreased, either via black bars around the edge or some other method?

 

[Cerb]

Aside from a glossy display, what would be the benefit(s) of the 2207? Does it have a better panel, or is just that its properties are more well-known in general?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: yehuda
Hi xtknight and everyone,

I'm debating between Samsung 971P and ViewSonic VP930 for a general purpose monitor. It will be used for text and DVD playback but not gaming. I hear the 971P is better at image quality and black depth whereas the VP930 is better at response times. I'm going to visit someone who already bought a 971P and do some tests in person to try to gauge if it would still be good for me despite the high response times. Aside from playing some DVDs, is there some specific test I can run to better assess the issue, like a specific downloadable video or software that simulates fast paced patterns?

You are correct in the assessment of the VP930 and 971P.

The conventional PixPerAn (Pixel Persistence Analyzer) doesn't seem to reveal the Samsung 971P's flaws. I'm not sure what you'd use. The best way is to just do what you do on a daily basis (if this is possible at his house) and see if it's a problem for you. If people on Newegg are commenting about it, it must be pretty bad.

If he uses any motion-sensitive apps and doesn't notice it, maybe you won't either. If you're not going to be gaming then I'm going to say that the 971P will be fine for you. However, a user in here not too long ago returned his 971P because he saw ringing/ghosting artifacts during movie playback. He got a VP930 rev 3 and claimed it was superior in all ways.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: woolf
After spending several hours unsuccesfully trying to track down a Samsung 226W with a S panel in my city, I've at last given up. But I still need a new monitor!

Welcome to the forums.

I was thinking of getting the 20WMGX2 as it sounds excellent, but it's a bit on the expensive side for me.

Does anybody know of a 20" and above widescreen that can compete with the Samsung 226W with a S panel both for price and general use, gaming and movies? I've got max 400$ to spend on it, but preferably somewhat less!

Yes, try the LG L226WTQ. Sometimes sold as the L226WT, L226WTX, or L226WTY. The glossy HP w2207 is another comparable option. If all else fails, the Acer AL2216WBD isn't too bad. The Acer's image quality may fall short of the other panels, though. AnandTech, in their HP w2207 review, apparently didn't think the Acer was far behind the HP so your mileage may vary.

 

[Skott]

I really like my L226WTQ(BF) LCD. One of the things I heard about 22" LCDs was that since they are 1680x1050 like the 20"-21" LCDs they were easier on the eyes for reading text and net surfing. I have a ViewSonic 2025 which I really like but this L226 is far better. I'm older now and have to wear glasses but with the 20" LCDs I tend to set the res down lower to make for easier net surfing and reading on my eyes. I dont have to do that with the L226WTQ. I leave it at its native res and can read everything just fine and not get strained eyes likeI do with 20" LCDs. We got some Dell 20" LCDs at work too and I tend to turn them down for easier reading as well. Yesterday I was playing CoD2 for quite a while and no ghosting was experienced. I need to run some other games before I can conclusively say there is no ghosting but so far its looking very promising. Running a 8800GTS 640 eVGA card with that too. People can say what they want about the 22" LCDs and their TN panels but the L226WTQ(BF) is really very good and a good alternative to those wanting something bigger than a 20" but less than a 24". Just my opinion anyway.

Edit: Btw, factory default is 100% brightness so you'll need to tone that down on the L226WTQ. I got mine set for 50% and that seems to be good enough for me.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cicero

Originally posted by: xtknight

The AL2416WD actually looks like a good deal but I don't tend to recommend Acer monitors too much. (Except the AL2051W where it's the only one in its class that uses a P-MVA panel any longer.) Their support isn't too good and it lacks a lot of video inputs that other 24" LCDs have. I bet it's missing some scaling options too, and there's just not that much info on it.

The AL2416WBSD is a TN, and so it will exhibit all TN characteristics. I've already seen one 24" TN, the Samsung 245BW, and I didn't like it. The Dell 2407WFP-HC is cheap as it is and it's one of the best screens ever.

xt,

Re the AL2416WD I have one here (just sold it actually via online auction). They have no scaling options at all. The only way I have ever been able adjust it is with Nvidia Forceware software. They are a decent monitor for the price but here in New Zealand the Dell WFP2407-HC now is cheaper. My AL2416 has a bit of blacklight bleeding and has a reddish tint to the overall color but that can be adjusted out. Also compared to my Samsung 215TW the colors aren't as good either as they are rather flattish and lacking in richness.

Re the AL2616WD THG France has a review here

I translated it into english using the google translator, they liked the color after correct calibration but didn't like it for watching videos. Their overall opinion of this LCD was very similiar to BeHardware's which is that it is an average monitor. The article also reviews a Dell WFP2707.

I now have make a choice of what to buy to replace the AL2416WD. My choices are:

• Dell WFP2407-HC

• Dell WFP2707

• Dell WFP3007-HC

• Samsung 275T

• Samsung 305T

The AL2616WD is available in NZ but I don't want another Acer. The WFP2707 is very expensive here (almost as much as a WFP3007-HC). The 305T doesn't do HDCP I understand so that isn't an option. At the moment it's between the WFP2407-HC and the 275T. The latter has been getting some good reviews. I use this puter for a bit of imaging(3D) work, SD/HD movies. web surfing etc but am not a gamer. My video card is an eVGA 8800GTS 320mb.

Of the other brands NEC stuff is quite expensive here, LG don't sell 24" stuff in NZ, The Benq 241w is available here but almost $NZ2000!

I think you'd like the Dell 2407WFP-HC best. I haven't seen enough data on the 275T to recommend it (no input lag measurements), although it would probably also be fine. If you're doing imaging work you'll most likely like the smaller dot pitch of the 2407WFP-HC.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: leglez
Im about to buy my second LCD and am stuck between 2 LCDs. I am on a budget and want a 22" so here are the 2 I have decided on. Which one is better?

The Acer AL2216Wsd

22" Widescreen Active Matrix TFT LCD Display
Resolution 1680 x 1050
Contrast ratio 700:1
Brightness 300 cd/m2
Response time 5ms
Dimensions 22.2"W x 17.7"H x 5.3"D
3 year warranty
Maximum Resolution 1680 x 1050
Image Contrast Ratio 700:1
Image Brightness 300 cd/m2
Input Signal VGA/DVI
Dimensions 22.2"W x 17.7"H x 5.3"D

or the

ViewSonic VX2235WM

I am getting the Viewsonic for $235 shipped and the Acer for $240 shipped

The Acer AL2216* has been reviewed and it's the best of the Chi Mei LCDs. I'd trust it more than the ViewSonic.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: newschool
First thanks for the thread. I am coming from a 17" LCD monitor running at 100HZ for "pro" gaming and I need a 19" LCD.

100 Hz? Really? Which one? Unfortunately all 19" LCDs are around 60 Hz. If you meant 10ms response time, then you're in luck as all the 19"s in the gaming section are very fast.

But I will watch movies too. I saw that benq just released the FP93GX+, you quoted it as the best hardcore gaming LCD but is it good for some movies watching too? My other choices would be Hyundai Q90U and Viewsonic VX922.. My budget is about 300 max.
Im just looking for opinions

The FP93GX+ is actually a newer model of the FP93GX, but I'm sure it will be fine.

I'd recommend the BenQ over the other two LCDs you listed.

 

[Dantzig]

Originally posted by: Shadout
Bought a HP w2207 2 weeks ago. Just read another owner having an LG panel in it, a few pages back(LM220WE1-TLB1). So do I. (If they arent lying in the service panel at least)
Looks like many of them have that panel now (Also a pretty new post on HardForum with that panel in the monitor. He mention that there might be "China made" panels in some. Maybe the new 226BW?)

Thought the monitor had Samsung panel though, but I dont know if there is actally any difference in quality.

Its a good screen overall, and glossy isnt an issue for me at all.
My main issue is the terrible vertical viewing angles, I knew it wouldnt be good, but they seem worse than other TN panels Ive seen (while the horizontal seems better or the same).
There is a very clear difference in colour/contrast between bottom and top, mostly visible with plain coloured background to compare the changed colour with, as its often the case on the internet like this forum (the blue color is an example), though also visible, if less so, in games (it annoys me knowing its there, even when I cant see it ).
Probably just going to live with it though (14 day return running out tomorrow), the 20WGX2 is the only monitor I could see replacing it, and its still cost quite much more here, beside the fact that 22" just feels a bit nicer.

Also not sure what the best settings should be, tried quite a few different ones, but they all seem to improve and worsen different aspects. Cant really find the "perfect" ones, and it doesnt seem like many around here (checked your calibration thread) has posted any suggestions

My w2207 appears to have a Samsung panel in it. The service menu says "MT220WW01-V1" which according to this thread means I have either a LTM220M1 or LM220M1 Samsung panel.

PS - another thread discussing the hp w2207 panel "lottery"

 

[bobhowell]

I just got my HP LP2065 20"monitor. Box said Rev#gsm002 so I guess I won the lottery. Made June 2007.

Bob Howell

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: wongste
I picked up the LG L246W on Friday from Best Buy. Here's a mini-review - more like first impressions of the monitor so far. I plan to use the screen mainly for photo-editing and some web-surfing.

First thing I noticed after powering the monitor up is a disappointing blur to the text. It is very apparent after being used to razor sharp text on my two laptop LCDs (Dell and IBM), as well as my Dell E196FP (TN film). No, I don't have anti-aliasing/Cleartext turned on. The effect is like the color of the text is bleeding into adjacent pixels. The blurriness seems to improve as the monitor warms up, but going back and forth with my other LCD screens tells me that it's still there.

I have heard of this on the Dells too (early 2407WFP revs in particular)

I wonder if the MVA panel inherently suffer from more blurriness compared to TN panels, or is it just the L246, or just my unit?

I don't think it's an MVA thing. Rather, one where just a few panels or units are affected. It could be a QA thing, but I wouldn't be able to tell you specifically what is causing it.

Out of the box, the brightness is set very high. I was intrigued to find an sRGB setting, in addition to 6500K and 9300K. I toggled between sRGB and 6500K but I'm hard pressed to find much difference between the two. Since photo-editing is my primary application, I thought I'd trust that LG know what they're doing and pick sRGB.

After setting it to sRGB for my whitepoint, and calibrating gamma to 2.2 - visually using QuickGamma and Norman Koren's charts - color accuracy appears pretty good. However, I had to set brightness to 0 in order to do that. Comparing several digital prints with their originals show that in some cases the monitor still appears too bright, but the accuracy is close enough that it probably won't bother me.

Yeah, MVA panels are very bright even when you turn them down. Midtones in particular are more bright than they should be. I suspect this is to preserve vibrancy at lower brightnesses. This is why IPS panels have advantages for photo editing.

Black crush exists, but I think is pretty good for an LCD. Levels are indistinguishable to my eye from 0,0,0 to about 3,3,3. I can start to see a difference at 4,4,4. Also, I notice that straight on perpendicular to the screen, contrast or brightness is lower than at say a 30-45 degree angle - I found that to be rather interesting.

Yes, MVA panels display light only in about 4 or 8 evenly spaced horizontal planes other than the perpendicular one. This means darker images when looking from the center and more details being revealed at other angles.

However, in general, viewing angles are very good - compared to TN panels. As I'd mentioned, there is a slight brightness/contrast shift between dead-on and at a slight angle, but that's my only quibble.

However, at 0 brightness, the monitor is too dark for web-surfing or general use. The diminished contrast of black text on light background is hard on the eyes.

Backlight bleeding is not too bad but I don't have a colorimeter to measure its level. My panel came with 1 stuck pixel that I could see. I haven't really looked hard for them.

I am still debating whether to keep this monitor or return it. I picked the LG over the two other candidates at this price point (Dell 2407 and BenQ FP241) mainly because it is available at a brick and mortar store and I can easily return it. I was also unsure if the wide gamut colorspace of the Dell can be calibrated to work well with sRGB images.

I would be interested to learn from owners if they have any blurriness issues with the Dell or BenQ.

I'm not sure how the 2407WFP-HC fares for text sharpness.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Montius
Fabulous resource you've got going here xtknight, the time and effort you put into it is exceptional and greatly appreciated.

On that note, I'm hoping someone can help me out with some advice. I'm running a 19" ViewSonic CRT at the moment and have been considering getting an LCD for quite some time, and what it's basically come down to is the Dell 2407-HC or going dual with a 20WMGX2 and probably another, cheaper 20".

The main uses for the monitor will be gaming and 3D work. I'd really have rather waited to grab a monitor but with the 2407 $100 cheaper until August 8th, I'm really tempted to jump on it. A few pages back you made a statement of the 2407 being an excellent monitor; would you be more inclined to recommend the 20WMGX2 with a 2nd 20" as a dual setup, or the 2407?

That is indeed a tough decision. I would probably be getting the 26" Planar in case like this (S-IPS) but it is more expensive than both of those options, in most cases. I have to say that two NECs would be the best option. Not only because I'm obsessed with 20WMGX2s, but because their great viewing angle also means great dual monitor performance. The main thing that irritates me with my dual monitor setup (20WMGX2 + VP930b) is the VP930b's fading at slight viewing angles. With two NECs this wouldn't be happening.

I'm totally torn between the two because a 24" monitor sounds spectacular coming from something with a 17.1" viewable screen, but my 3D work, and the fear of games lagging (performance, not response/input lag) at such high res is making me consider the 20WMGX2.

Oh, and one question that I've been curious about for a while. If I had a 24" monitor, without scaling, can it be run at a lower res? What I mean by this is, can the actual screen size be decreased, either via black bars around the edge or some other method?

All (most?) monitors have some form of scaling. Usually, they default to "Fill" and don't let you change it, or don't have the implementation required to adjust the options.

If "without scaling" you mean centered mode, or 1:1 pixel mapping, yes that is possible with the Dell 2407. It is also possible with any monitor on an NVIDIA card. ATI's drivers may be allowing centered mode too (I'm not sure). There are other screen scaling methods too, read the OP.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cerb
Aside from a glossy display, what would be the benefit(s) of the 2207? Does it have a better panel, or is just that its properties are more well-known in general?

Its properties are more well known, so that is why I recommended it over your other HP option. I'm betting its panel is better, too.

 

[xtknight]

For those wanting to learn more about wide gamut displays and the future of the market, check out the new article on lcdresource.com.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Skott
I really like my L226WTQ(BF) LCD. One of the things I heard about 22" LCDs was that since they are 1680x1050 like the 20"-21" LCDs they were easier on the eyes for reading text and net surfing. I have a ViewSonic 2025 which I really like but this L226 is far better. I'm older now and have to wear glasses but with the 20" LCDs I tend to set the res down lower to make for easier net surfing and reading on my eyes. I dont have to do that with the L226WTQ. I leave it at its native res and can read everything just fine and not get strained eyes likeI do with 20" LCDs. We got some Dell 20" LCDs at work too and I tend to turn them down for easier reading as well. Yesterday I was playing CoD2 for quite a while and no ghosting was experienced. I need to run some other games before I can conclusively say there is no ghosting but so far its looking very promising. Running a 8800GTS 640 eVGA card with that too. People can say what they want about the 22" LCDs and their TN panels but the L226WTQ(BF) is really very good and a good alternative to those wanting something bigger than a 20" but less than a 24". Just my opinion anyway.

Edit: Btw, factory default is 100% brightness so you'll need to tone that down on the L226WTQ. I got mine set for 50% and that seems to be good enough for me.

The VX2025 was actually an 8-bit panel but as you can see, "your" best panel greatly depends on what you use your monitor for. Glad it worked out for you.

Originally posted by: Dantzig
My w2207 appears to have a Samsung panel in it. The service menu says "MT220WW01-V1" which according to this thread means I have either a LTM220M1 or LM220M1 Samsung panel.

PS - another thread discussing the hp w2207 panel "lottery"

At least they aren't using Chi Mei, CPT, or AUO panels..


Yet...
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[Crash0]

The Planar's been tested to have less than 1 frame of lag http://www.hardforum.com/showt...1259394#post1031259394

 

[imaheadcase]

Well guess what, Dell is giving me $50 off my WFP2407-HC since price dropped on website! Thats so cool.

They said since it was a promotion they could not give full amount, but since the valued me as a customer they will give $50 credit back to Vista card. not bad at all!

 

[Raptor051]

Hi,

as I see it the "best" all around monitor is wide Nec LCD 20WGX2 (pro?) and I am looking to it, but with his resolution 1680x1050 how will it display older games and applications with fixed lower 4:3 resolution (i.e. Heroes 3 800x640) or games that are not supporting 1680x1050 (i.e. HoMMV). I so that some of you here have exactly that monitor so I won?t your opinion about that...
Or should I look for "normal" 4:3 LCD (as there is no good CRT anymore) that have 8bit color, good for gaming and occasional movie watching. Which one?


PS I know that a picture will be little out of focus and/or blurred if is not in native LCD resolution but I don?t wont stretched and/or distorted picture.

Thx

 

[Butaz]

There's a lot of reviews about LCDs on digitalversus.com, including some very new ones, like the Samsung 245T, BenQ FP241VW...

Full review, LG L226WTQ
Full review, Samsung SyncMaster 226BW, panel S, A, C
Samsung 245T vs BenQ FP241VW
ViewSonic VX2255wmb vs Samsung 225 UW
ViewSonic VX2435wm vs LG L245WP-BN
etc.

 

[Butaz]

[...]

Yes, try the LG L226WTQ. Sometimes sold as the L226WT, L226WTX, or L226WTY. The glossy HP w2207 is another comparable option. If all else fails, the Acer AL2216WBD isn't too bad. The Acer's image quality may fall short of the other panels, though. AnandTech, in their HP w2207 review, apparently didn't think the Acer was far behind the HP so your mileage may vary.

L226WTQ use a LG-Philips panel, 2 ms.
L226WT is a different model, with a CMO panel, 5 ms, without overdrive.

Both use the same settings for colors. I've opened both displays

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Butaz

[...]

Yes, try the LG L226WTQ. Sometimes sold as the L226WT, L226WTX, or L226WTY. The glossy HP w2207 is another comparable option. If all else fails, the Acer AL2216WBD isn't too bad. The Acer's image quality may fall short of the other panels, though. AnandTech, in their HP w2207 review, apparently didn't think the Acer was far behind the HP so your mileage may vary.

L226WTQ use a LG-Philips panel, 2 ms.
L226WT is a different model, with a CMO panel, 5 ms, without overdrive.

Both use the same settings for colors. I've opened both displays

That's interesting. I looked at the L226WT service menu and mine said LPL, although I didn't open it yet. For a CMO panel, it sure is good.

 

[Butaz]

Maybe the problem is like with the Samsung 226BW. Sone will have LGP panels, some others CMO...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Butaz
Maybe the problem is like with the Samsung 226BW. Sone will have LGP panels, some others CMO...

What's your service menu say on your L226WT (if you still have it)? Or, L226WTQ for that matter?

I'm thinking the same as you are, except LG used better default color settings on CMO's panel than Samsung. Samsung made CMO look pretty bad and surely the 226BW (C) couldn't compete with the L226WT. BeHardware tested the 226BW (C) and it came out with considerably worse contrast than my L226WT which I believe was at least 900:1 on a colorimeter.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Raptor051
Hi,

as I see it the "best" all around monitor is wide Nec LCD 20WGX2 (pro?) and I am looking to it, but with his resolution 1680x1050 how will it display older games and applications with fixed lower 4:3 resolution (i.e. Heroes 3 800x640) or games that are not supporting 1680x1050 (i.e. HoMMV). I so that some of you here have exactly that monitor so I won?t your opinion about that...
Or should I look for "normal" 4:3 LCD (as there is no good CRT anymore) that have 8bit color, good for gaming and occasional movie watching. Which one?

At below 1440x900 or so, the image doesn't look as good. Using lower 4:3 resolutions doesn't look very good, but with aspect ratio scaling it might be better. This is too much a matter of opinion to give you an answer. I would not use any lower resolution than native, personally.

PS I know that a picture will be little out of focus and/or blurred if is not in native LCD resolution but I don?t wont stretched and/or distorted picture.

Thx

Stretching and distortion is inevitable, unfortunately. But the scalers try to compensate for aspect ratio the best they can.

 

[Raptor051]

Thx for the response, it seems that 1st post was in the right place? sorry about 2nd post

So if I understand right, if some old program/ game have fixed or lower resolution, I will be able to make picture in a black box (bars) with actually ?acceptable? quality of the picture ? not distorted only smaller (like a wide screen movie on classic 4:3 television ) within the monitor (option in the LCD menu not in graphic card software)?

1 step closer to 20WGX2

Any advice to really good non wide monitor within +/- 20% range price ? size is not important 17?, 19?, 20??

Thx again