[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Montius]

Just bought the 2407WFP-HC for $569 + tax, with free shipping. Are there are any calibrators that you'd recommend for being used on a WG panel, or do the same recommendations apply? (I realize you stated that they should all work fine, but perhaps there is one you've got wind of working better).

Also, is there anything I could/should report on when receiving it to help out?

 

[frythecpuofbender]

I just got the LG226WA.
Manufactured: Juli 2007
Has a white stand and black display casing. Looks fabulous.

The picture is very good, not a single dead pixel.
Amazing contrast (had a Samsung Syncmaster 17'' before)
The viewing angle looks very good too. You can sit in front of it with three people gaming and everyone has a very good color impression.
Reaction time seems very good. Just played Flatout 2 (very high speed racing game) and it looked just perfect. My old 6800GS did amazingly well with Flatout 2 in 1680x1050! I just wish all games were as tightly coded as this.

Only minor grip: If you watch a movie/trailer and the screen goes completely black you can notice some subtle backlight bleeding from top and bottom. As soon as there is a hint of picture the letterbox seems pure black again. I just watched a movie on an old Sony 29'' CRT TV and I noticed the same thing there LOL. So maybe it's my eyes.

Didn't do anything with the menu/software yet and didn't try to calibrate any colors. But I don't feel the immediate need for it, looks about perfect out of the box.

Just a quick question: Is there a good resource for widescreen gaming, resolution patches, fixes?

 

[paul01]

(since no one suggested not to, i'm taking that as a good sign and i'm going with the NEC WMGX2.)
-next question-
i have a monaco ez color/optix xr calibration kit. is there anything special i should be aware of when using this calibrator with the NEC?
thanks,
Paul

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: frythecpuofbender
Just a quick question: Is there a good resource for widescreen gaming, resolution patches, fixes?

I think you will like this one:


http://www.widescreengamingforum.com/

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ftrippie
Thanks xtknight, that's really helpful! Will go for the NEC then, it also seems to be favoured for various other tasks (like multimedia etc)

BTW, I did find another small review/comparison of the Eizo against the NEC, in which the reviewer favoures the Eizo. But it's hardly substantial.

Here it is, it's in German, but the last 'graph' will speak for itself:

prad.de

Cheers,
FTrippie

The NEC's glossy coating seals the deal for me.

Originally posted by: tw33ter
That's what I was thinking too. So my next question... I'm pretty sure she's only got a pci slot, which video card would you suggest? I've seen x1500's and 6200's in the pci flavor, but that's about as new as I've come across in terms of current generation pci video cards.

Those should be new enough to have decent video output.

Originally posted by: kamiller42
I've been wanting to get an LCD for a long time. I'm still using two Samsung tubes, 957MB (1600x1200 on 19". Drool.) and 955DF (ho-hum). The more I read this thread and other articles about LCDs makes me think they are still not ready for prime time. Are the issues of ghosting, uneven color, limited color range a little overblown? When I plan to move to LCD, I plan to go with 2 or 3 of them. At $500 a pop, I want to make sure I'm happy for a good while. Should I wait for the DisplayPort generation to show up?

They are overblown for the majority of people but enthusiasts will expect more out of LCDs and will even pay for it.

Look no further than a triple NEC 20WMGX2 setup, IMO. Of course, I might be biased for obvious reasons. There's the ~$570 Dell 2407WFP-HC too that you could fit in there somehow.

DisplayPort LCDs? Um, I doubt those are worth waiting for. Unless they somehow achieve 10-bit colors. Probably not possible without more dithering not that there's any problem with that.

Originally posted by: paul01
hello,
being more than a year old, is the NEC 20WMGX2 still among the best in it's price range? or is there now a better alternative?
i need a monitor for photo editing mainly but will be doing video editing as well in near future.
thanks,
Paul

Simple answer: still by far the best for what you're doing. In my last calibration, my 20WMGX2 achieved near perfect accuracy without even an ICC profile at certain settings.

Originally posted by: paul01
i forgot to ask if there is still a rebate for this monitor (in canada).

Uh no idea about this, but surely you should be able to find this out?

Originally posted by: thestain
Xtknight or anyone else have any thoughts on HannsG Monitors.. gets great reviews on Newegg, yet... not much press elsewhere. I was looking at the 22' and the 27.5 inch for my brother.. stand is only 23 inches wide so he is leaning toward the smaller, while liking the idea of bigger.

27.5 inch.. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824254026

22 inch .. with dvi-i for old componet to dvi-i input http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824254020

I stay away from TNs above 22" at all costs and would never recommend them. 24" TNs are probably OK for most people that aren't picky but really they have some pretty annoying quirks especially at the size. If you want me to be entirely honest there are probably many people that would be just fine with that display.

But, why that when you can get a Dell 2407WFP-HC for cheaper? A much better deal, beyond comprehension. The bigger size is hardly an advantage unless you really need it. The resolution is the same.

The Hannstar 22"..well why Hannstar when you can get LGs and Samsung 22"s? Price I suppose but then you should consider the Acer AL2051W which would knock all of the above off their feet (except 2407WFP-HC). I recommend the 2407WFP-HC in your situation, honestly.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Aversion
That's an awesome price. I might take the plunge too.

As always though, I have one question before I do. I have a modern desktop but I also run an Inspiron 9300 laptop. Can I run the 2407 off the laptop as well? It has 2gigs of ram and a dedicated 128meg video card, the x300 I think. I would like to be able to use it to give presentations with the monitor in the meeting room (the desktop is kinda wired in to where it is). I have the 17" 1920x1200 screen on the laptop right now so I know the video card runs the resolution, and it will run a game like BF2470 pretty well, but will I run into problems with it and the 2407-hc?

Thanks.

The 17" in the laptop is probably hooked up directly or digitally so it should look great. I'm afraid I have some bad news for you, though: the VGA outputs on most laptops tend to be anywhere from bad to worse. I've experienced this myself and AnandTech mentions it in their most recent LCD review. You might have a lucky unit that has good VGA output but just don't expect too much. Running at a lower 16:10 res like 1280x800 on the 2407WFP-HC and scaling up might be a more realistic option.

If you have a DVI output you may be in luck at any res, but still maybe not.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: erikt
A quick question about recommended colorimeters. I'm debating getting an i1 Display 2, but I would like it to work well with my DLP RPTV as well as my LCD. Anyone had any experience using this colorimeter with a DLP?

Also, is there any major difference between the Pantone and the Gretag-Macbeth software? A quick price check found the Pantone to be roughly $65 cheaper than the Gretag-Macbeth version.

Thanks,
erikt

No idea about DLP calibration.

Umm, well the Pantone and Gretag use the same HW and I prefer the basiCColor software over the bundled software. That's all I can tell you. You can get that software here in the USA: http://www.grafixgear.com/sear...anufacturer=&category=

Other locations: http://www.basiccolor.de/haend...endler.asp?language=en

The bundled software with either probably is decent enough, though. I don't know how they compare specifically.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: paul01
xtnight
you already own the NEC 20WMGX2 and are now considering purchasing a Dell 2407WFP-HC? what are u planning to use the monitor for?

HDTV, either thru a DTV tuner or recorded files. Plus just text editing and web browsing. Some, likely print-target, photo editing just for personal purposes. Gaming rarely. But I always appreciate a great picture. Besides, I need an S-PVA to add to my collection. Only TN, P-MVA, S-IPS. Having no S-PVA makes market forecasting difficult!

i wonder if that kinda answers my question regarding buying the year old NEC or looking for a better/cheaper alternative for mainly photo editing but i will be doing some video editing soon.
*nope...just had a look back at your stats and it seems the Dell is quite a bit more $$$ and has a slower image delay.
is there any other monitor i should check out before committing to the NEC?
thanks
Paul

Not really. The 20WMGX2 is still king as far as I'm concerned. I have my doubts that the 2407WFP-HC is going to beat it, that's why I'm keeping the NEC around because I honestly doubt there will be anything like it until affordable LED backlights (w/ glossy S-IPS panel at that), or OLEDs.

However, S-IPS panels even have their quirks. I find that the S-IPS is simply "too perfect" for most material and as such, the flaws/noise/twinkling/banding come out and slap you in the face. That's the price you pay for perfection. I want one monitor that is not like this. For very high quality, reference, or some type of 10-bit material the S-IPS panel can't be beat, but truth is, the higher contrast of an S-PVA panel is going to produce a more natural and lifelike picture for most people. The deeper black level, and as of late, better uniformity, are great selling points for S-PVA panels. They also seem to produce darker tones better due to higher contrast. So don't lose any sleep over not getting S-IPS.

I feel that LCDs, at this point, have reached a technological plateau. There have been no new (core) panel types for ages. An LCD that came out more than a year and a half ago beats pretty much everything else out there today. So, I figure, if you want a bigger-sized LCD just go for whatever's the best value and keep hanging on until FED/OLED arrive. Maybe LED backlights or color-filter-less LCDs will be more interesting. Actually, development is probably moving at a steady pace, just not like it was a couple years ago. But it seems like they've improved almost everything they could improve by now. They are left to devising rather silly solutions such as sharpening to reduce motion blur or cameras that track your eyes to increase viewing angle. The good news, is that I think new display techs are on the horizon and they are probably focusing a lot of R&D on those. You can rest assured I'll be waiting with bated breath! Right after I get that 30" TN panel with no overdrive and VGA-only input.

 

[Gast]

xtknight,

First and foremost, thanks for all the info and question answering you have done thus far. You've saved me (and others) quite a bit of time.

I'm currently looking to upgrade my panel from a 2405fpw. I've been quite pleased with the quality it's provided for me over the past 2.5 years. I'm currently looking for a place to gather info on the high end of LCDs. I'm looking to upgrade sometime between now and Christmas. I've budgeted to spend around $3k. My needs would fall under the multimedia category (70% non hardcore fps gaming, 30% movies/hdtv). I've been really hoping some niche manufacture would produce a Quad-HD (3840x2160) LED backlit panel around 30-40". Despite it looking possible, I feel it's not going to happen by Christmas.

What would you suggest that I hold out for or look forward to between now and Christmas? When would you guess my "dream" monitor would be released? And finally, are there other places (other than the ones you mentioned) to find recent rumors on this kind of info?

 

[ftrippie]

Hi xtknight,

Sorry to keep on bothering you, but you seem to have the answers, for which I thank you very much!

You say:

The NEC's glossy coating seals the deal for me.

and:

HDTV, either thru a DTV tuner or recorded files. Plus just text editing and web browsing. Some, likely print-target, photo editing just for personal purposes.

I might be totally wrong, but I have the feeling that the glossy screen would be my biggest problem. Apart from the fact that it reflects (which in the end I could find a solution for), I feel that it would also brighten up the colours too much.
I do photoshop work for internet 'delivery' (high quality virtual tours, ... at least, I try..) and feel that if MY monitor would be too lively, I would automatically dim down the colours, which in the end would result in dull pictures on the average users monitor.

Or am I totally wrong? Too be honest, so far I have been using a Belinea 101920 (19") and I don't have experience with glossy screens...

I would very much like to know, because the NEC is way easier to get here in Spain than the Eizo (or at least cheaper)...


cheers
FTrippie

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I feel that LCDs, at this point, have reached a technological plateau. There have been no new (core) panel types for ages. An LCD that came out more than a year and a half ago beats pretty much everything else out there today. So, I figure, if you want a bigger-sized LCD just go for whatever's the best value and keep hanging on until FED/OLED arrive.

Yes. Just about the reasoning I made before deciding on the 2407WFP-HC. I should hopefully be set for 5 years, at which time the new technologies should have become widespread and affordable.

 

[Aversion]

Originally posted by: xtknight

The 17" in the laptop is probably hooked up directly or digitally so it should look great. I'm afraid I have some bad news for you, though: the VGA outputs on most laptops tend to be anywhere from bad to worse. I've experienced this myself and AnandTech mentions it in their most recent LCD review. You might have a lucky unit that has good VGA output but just don't expect too much. Running at a lower 16:10 res like 1280x800 on the 2407WFP-HC and scaling up might be a more realistic option.

If you have a DVI output you may be in luck at any res, but still maybe not.

The laptop has DVI output and I just tried an LG L226WTX out, it works fine, so I assume the 2407 will also. Fingers crossed.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: frythecpuofbender
I just got the LG226WA.
Manufactured: Juli 2007
Has a white stand and black display casing. Looks fabulous.

The picture is very good, not a single dead pixel.
Amazing contrast (had a Samsung Syncmaster 17'' before)
The viewing angle looks very good too. You can sit in front of it with three people gaming and everyone has a very good color impression.
Reaction time seems very good. Just played Flatout 2 (very high speed racing game) and it looked just perfect. My old 6800GS did amazingly well with Flatout 2 in 1680x1050! I just wish all games were as tightly coded as this.

Only minor grip: If you watch a movie/trailer and the screen goes completely black you can notice some subtle backlight bleeding from top and bottom. As soon as there is a hint of picture the letterbox seems pure black again. I just watched a movie on an old Sony 29'' CRT TV and I noticed the same thing there LOL. So maybe it's my eyes.

Didn't do anything with the menu/software yet and didn't try to calibrate any colors. But I don't feel the immediate need for it, looks about perfect out of the box.

Just a quick question: Is there a good resource for widescreen gaming, resolution patches, fixes?

Yup...

Square meters of white / square meters of black = how your eyes perceive it

Something like that, at least. If there is a small unit of black in the middle of the screen and the rest of the screen is white, that small unit will seem blacker than if it covered the whole screen alone.

WSGF, mentioned earlier, is the best widescreen resource.

 

[xtknight]

edit

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP

Originally posted by: xtknight
I feel that LCDs, at this point, have reached a technological plateau. There have been no new (core) panel types for ages. An LCD that came out more than a year and a half ago beats pretty much everything else out there today. So, I figure, if you want a bigger-sized LCD just go for whatever's the best value and keep hanging on until FED/OLED arrive.

Yes. Just about the reasoning I made before deciding on the 2407WFP-HC. I should hopefully be set for 5 years, at which time the new technologies should have become widespread and affordable.

BernardP, also looking forward to your impressions on the 2407WFP-HC.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Montius
Just bought the 2407WFP-HC for $569 + tax, with free shipping. Are there are any calibrators that you'd recommend for being used on a WG panel, or do the same recommendations apply? (I realize you stated that they should all work fine, but perhaps there is one you've got wind of working better).

Also, is there anything I could/should report on when receiving it to help out?

The same recommendations apply. The Eye One Display 2, however, I am quite certain will work well with WG displays. I don't know how the cheaper ones perform.

I would like to know of black/dark detail and viewing angles of the 2407WFP-HC. The dark detail test should be done from straight-on only, as at different angles more detail may be revealed.

I'm talking about this test: http://lcdresource.com/index.p...k=view&id=50&Itemid=39

Although the description is a little inaccurate right now. The levels should be even if you are on L* (probably only if you calibrated), but if you are on sRGB then that won't quite be the case. The darker ones shouldn't that obvious on sRGB, but they should still be visible.

Originally posted by: paul01
(since no one suggested not to, i'm taking that as a good sign and i'm going with the NEC WMGX2.)
-next question-
i have a monaco ez color/optix xr calibration kit. is there anything special i should be aware of when using this calibrator with the NEC?
thanks,
Paul

Put the colorimeter directly up to the screen, don't hang it from a foot away because although this can compensate for ambient light better, reflections will confuse the photosensors.

Originally posted by: Gast
xtknight,

First and foremost, thanks for all the info and question answering you have done thus far. You've saved me (and others) quite a bit of time.

I'm currently looking to upgrade my panel from a 2405fpw. I've been quite pleased with the quality it's provided for me over the past 2.5 years. I'm currently looking for a place to gather info on the high end of LCDs. I'm looking to upgrade sometime between now and Christmas. I've budgeted to spend around $3k. My needs would fall under the multimedia category (70% non hardcore fps gaming, 30% movies/hdtv). I've been really hoping some niche manufacture would produce a Quad-HD (3840x2160) LED backlit panel around 30-40". Despite it looking possible, I feel it's not going to happen by Christmas.

Well, Samsung already has a 40" LED-backlit LCD (lower res) that's $9,000 but I'm going to say it'll be ages (2 yrs-3 yrs) until this stuff is affordable (around $3k).

What would you suggest that I hold out for or look forward to between now and Christmas? When would you guess my "dream" monitor would be released? And finally, are there other places (other than the ones you mentioned) to find recent rumors on this kind of info?

I hate to shatter your dreams but I doubt such a thing will even exist before FED/OLED appear. Then you'll want those, right?

I don't know when Chi Mei planned on releasing their wider gamut TV panels but I thought they had some interesting stuff in the works (like the 160% gamut "Chameleon" display). No ETA though...

I would just be getting a wide gamut, quad-HD display if those even exist. If not, then I would just be waiting until they did exist. $3k is a lot of money to spend on anything except the top of the line.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/hom...got-quad-hd-208131.php

The only places I come across that have LCD info are listed in the OP. Engadget has rumors sometimes, as well as MonitorSource.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ftrippie
Hi xtknight,

Sorry to keep on bothering you, but you seem to have the answers, for which I thank you very much!

You say:

The NEC's glossy coating seals the deal for me.

and:

HDTV, either thru a DTV tuner or recorded files. Plus just text editing and web browsing. Some, likely print-target, photo editing just for personal purposes.

I might be totally wrong, but I have the feeling that the glossy screen would be my biggest problem. Apart from the fact that it reflects (which in the end I could find a solution for), I feel that it would also brighten up the colours too much.
I do photoshop work for internet 'delivery' (high quality virtual tours, ... at least, I try..) and feel that if MY monitor would be too lively, I would automatically dim down the colours, which in the end would result in dull pictures on the average users monitor.

Or am I totally wrong? Too be honest, so far I have been using a Belinea 101920 (19") and I don't have experience with glossy screens...

I would very much like to know, because the NEC is way easier to get here in Spain than the Eizo (or at least cheaper)...


cheers
FTrippie

I doubt this would be a problem for you. The glossy screen really only changes how the screen reflects light. I don't think you are seeing any more than what is actually on the LCD panel, minus all the distortion around you. Whether this will cause problems when you're making stuff for people who have other anti-glare LCDs is debatable. The superior S-IPS panel you have is more a worry than what coating it carries. The OptiClear coating doesn't really increase the vibrancy of anything, it just makes things appear much clearer to your eyes with less ambient light distortion, that's all.

 

[paul01]

xtknight...a big THANK YOU for your time and efforts. i was completely ignorrant/lost but now i've found (a monitor) ;-)

 

[ftrippie]

Well, xtnight, I will take your word for it and I will go for it then, it definitely has a better following, better look, easier/cheaper to get, broader use, etc.
I will let you know the difference with my current Belinea, should be miles apart!

Cheers,
FTrippie

 

[xtknight]

NEC 20WMGX2 now available for $400 USD shipped: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...iption=20wmgx2&x=0&y=0

 

[xtknight]

Samsung 275T review: http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2169573,00.asp (I have no idea why the Westinghouse 24" is mentioned out of the blue, they meant Samsung 275T I guess.)

Anyways looks like an awesome monitor. 97% gamut (this is actually wider than the typical W-CCFL 92%), gamma and 6-way color adjustment, black level of 0.125 cd/m2 @ 150 cd/m2 white. This has got to be a new universal record in black level at that kind of brightness. I wish they would have tested input lag and response time but if either was bad I assume they would have mentioned it.

 

[Howard]

Ordered a Dell 2407WFP-HC for $599 CAD. I'll let you all know what it's like once it arrives.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Samsung 275T review: http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2169573,00.asp (Anyways looks like an awesome monitor. 97% gamut (this is actually wider than the typical W-CCFL 92%), gamma and 6-way color adjustment, black level of 0.125 cd/m2 @ 150 cd/m2 white. This has got to be a new universal record in black level at that kind of brightness. I wish they would have tested input lag and response time but if either was bad I assume they would have mentioned it.

Very nice. Reading this article, it seems like 24-inch monitors will soon be entry-level products. 26 to 28 inch monitors @ 1920x1200 are tomorrow's equivalent of today's 22-inchers. Our desks are getting awfully shallow...

Makes me feel less guilty about deciding on the 2407WFP-HC. I have shown more restraint than I thought

Of course, my impressions will be posted here. It's supposed to ship early next week.

 

[Montius]

Mine shipped today, rock awesome.

 

[DangerDave]

xtknight, what do you think of these two lcd's:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009108

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824116075

There not good enough to go on any of your lists, but they are only $180 bucks. I'm looking for a good and cheap 1680X1050 lcd. Is there any others you recommend for a poor person?

Ever consider having a budget lcd section?