[Retired] The LCD Thread

[rabbittherat]

Hi xtknight, i see that you are the guru of LCDs and I wanted your advice on what lcd I should buy. I want an lcd for gaming that has good colour repoduction between 19" and 22". If widescreen i would greatly prefer if it could do both 16:10 and 4:3. It must have as little input lag as possible) and preferably 8bit panel (probably doesnt exist as an 8bit im sure). My budget is no more than US$600 but am happy to spend less . Thanks in advance xtknight!

 

[amking]

+1 for the budget lcd section

(so i know what to recommend to people when they ask of course)

 

[imported_Cicero]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Samsung 275T review: http://www.extremetech.com/art.../0,1697,2169573,00.asp (I have no idea why the Westinghouse 24" is mentioned out of the blue, they meant Samsung 275T I guess.)

Anyways looks like an awesome monitor. 97% gamut (this is actually wider than the typical W-CCFL 92%), gamma and 6-way color adjustment, black level of 0.125 cd/m2 @ 150 cd/m2 white. This has got to be a new universal record in black level at that kind of brightness. I wish they would have tested input lag and response time but if either was bad I assume they would have mentioned it.

I've had my 275T for 8 days now and haven't changed my opinion from my mini review above. I agree with the ExtremeTech boys this is a very very nice LCD.

One very happy camper here.

:thumbsup:

 

[Terzo]

Is the tv tuner integrated with the 20WMGX2 supported under linux (specifically myth tv)? I don't see it listed under the myth wiki, but then again it might be different since it's an integrated tuner. Anyone know?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Terzo
Is the tv tuner integrated with the 20WMGX2 supported under linux (specifically myth tv)? I don't see it listed under the myth wiki, but then again it might be different since it's an integrated tuner. Anyone know?

The TV tuner is integrated into the monitor itself, so it acts as a TV. This is independent of an operating system or even PC. It does not support HD broadcast, only analog.

Because of this you can't record anything but you can watch it full or PIP with any other input. A remote comes with this monitor in fact.

 

[Terzo]

So is it possible to find a cheaper version without the integrated tv tuner? I've heard that's what they still have in Europe, but what about in the states?
Also, is it worth getting this monitor if i just get a tv tuner card instead (or is there a benefit to having a tuner in addition to the monitor)?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DangerDave
xtknight, what do you think of these two lcd's:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824009108

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824116075

There not good enough to go on any of your lists, but they are only $180 bucks. I'm looking for a good and cheap 1680X1050 lcd. Is there any others you recommend for a poor person?

Ever consider having a budget lcd section?

I do recommend the Acer AL2051W which is only $200 but probably a lot better than those displays.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...6824009105&Tpk=al2051w

Truly good LCDs seem to be getting cheaper and cheaper so this is why I don't have a value section. But, of course if you need to keep it under $150 I can think of something..(but probably not 20"). Not sure what it would be, but probably just a cheaper Samsung model. The Acer you linked actually looks decent but I still recommend ponying up the other $30 to get the AL2051W.

Originally posted by: Terzo
So is it possible to find a cheaper version without the integrated tv tuner? I've heard that's what they still have in Europe, but what about in the states?
Also, is it worth getting this monitor if i just get a tv tuner card instead (or is there a benefit to having a tuner in addition to the monitor)?

Sorry, the NEC LCD20WGX2 is not available whatsoever in the states. Yes there's definitely a reason to get this monitor besides the tuner. Even when I got it for $700 I thought it was worth every penny. It's $400 now. Please read the entry in the OP recommendations for more info on this display.

Originally posted by: rabbittherat
Hi xtknight, i see that you are the guru of LCDs and I wanted your advice on what lcd I should buy. I want an lcd for gaming that has good colour repoduction between 19" and 22". If widescreen i would greatly prefer if it could do both 16:10 and 4:3. It must have as little input lag as possible) and preferably 8bit panel (probably doesnt exist as an 8bit im sure). My budget is no more than US$600 but am happy to spend less . Thanks in advance xtknight!

The NEC 20WMGX2 is a great choice. No, it can't do 4:3 scaling in DVI/VGA but this is supported by any Intel or NVIDIA graphics adapter. (And I really hope it is on ATI by this time as well, but probably not.) It's about the best you can get for $600 hands down, for gaming.

There is the Dell 2407WFP-HC too which is another awesome deal. It's 24" but $569 and it's also good for gaming. It does have 4:3 scaling options. That still doesn't mean 4:3 is going to look as good as native, for whatever reason like black bars, centering, or interpolation.

Both the NEC and Dell are 8-bit. However, the NEC would have quite a bit less input lag. Both have good color reproduction really, and the 20WMGX2 is a glossy panel.

 

[Montius]

It seems that Dell is having a hard time pushing stock of the 2407WFP-HC, or at least as much as desired. The original end-of-discount ($569) was 8/08, then it was listed as 8/16, and it's now "until" 8/23.

This may be a "dell technique" that I'm unaware of, otherwise who knows how long the sale will actually last

 

[rabbittherat]

xtknight i cant seem to be able to buy the NEC 20WMGX2 down here in Australia, do you have another suggestion please (I dont want the dell due to the input lag)?

 

[crowley]

Thank you, xtknight and all the others, for this excellent thread! Very informative.

I'm now joining the "which monitor to buy" dilemma, after my 17" CRT died.

I use my computer mainly for office programs, web surfing, and photo editing (in that order), but I would also like to watch movies so I need good viewing angles. So after reading this thread I automatically eliminated all TN monitors, correct me if I'm wrong.

So by sticking with S-IPS and S-PVA, and reasonable price (for my country), I am limited to the following monitors:

NEC 20WGX2 (not pro?): 735$
Dell 2007FP (S-IPS according to the store): 535$
Dell 2007WFP (S-IPS according to the store): 507$
Dell 2407WFP (not HC. Should I wait for the HC model?): 911$
NEC 2070NX: 678$

Yes, these are insane prices when comparing with most other countries, but that's what I have to live with. Initially I was willing to spend 500$ on a 22" TN monitor, but after ruling out all TN I am willing to spend 200$ more for a good alternative (even if it's 20", although I would really really like a 22"). If the 2407WFP is by far the best of the bunch for my uses, then I will probably stretch my budget and buy it, although 24" is a bit too large for me.

So what are your suggestions?

 

[Arekh]

Hi:
Just want some advice on what to buy. I have around $250 to spend (could be a bit more if it is worth it) and am looking for recommendations. I mainly game on my machine. I also watch some occasional movies on it (not that common, but it does happen). I currently have a CRT and really want to replace it mainly because it's tiresome in the eyes when I'm working/reading stuff at night and there is a white or very light background. Currently inspecting the list and browsing around Amazon/Tiger Direct (Basically the only places I could order from.) I've seen:
Samsung 940BX 19"

Samsung 205BW

BenQ Senseye FP202W 20.1"

I mean, realistically, I have no idea if those are actually good choices. Never really dove too much into the world of LCDs. And so I come looking for help.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Howard]

The 2407WFP-HC is pretty damn sweet. Blacks are superb, probably better than my old CRT (have not done side-by-side comparison). No noticeable bleeding or variation in brightness. Can't give any description about the colors since I don't have anything to test with. Real estate++

EDIT: I'm using the ecksor's color profile

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rabbittherat
xtknight i cant seem to be able to buy the NEC 20WMGX2 down here in Australia, do you have another suggestion please (I dont want the dell due to the input lag)?

Maybe you will be able to find the NEC LCD20WGX2 instead there which is the international model. There's also the LCD20WGX2 Pro which is the same thing.

Other than this, I honestly don't know what to recommend. The Dell 2007WFP and HP LP2065 are other options (but both are involved in panel lotteries). I think that no matter which panel you get they won't have much input lag but they won't be quite as fast as the NEC LCD20WGX2 if you end up with MVA panels. Both the 2007WFP and LP2065 should have scaling options.

 

[imported_Cicero]

Re the abovementioned Samsung 275T, Monitor Source has added a page full of info and links to reviews etc:

Samsung 275T page at Monitor Source

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cicero
Re the abovementioned Samsung 275T, Monitor Source has added a page full of info and links to reviews etc:

Samsung 275T page at Monitor Source

w00t

It has been added to the OP for Multimedia/Office/Printwork sections. Great monitor besides the fact it doesn't have 1:1, but I'm planning to get it anyways. Just look at the response time on this sucker.

 

[Aversion]

Originally posted by: Montius
It seems that Dell is having a hard time pushing stock of the 2407WFP-HC, or at least as much as desired. The original end-of-discount ($569) was 8/08, then it was listed as 8/16, and it's now "until" 8/23.

This may be a "dell technique" that I'm unaware of, otherwise who knows how long the sale will actually last

I don't know, up here in Canada it was at $649 for a few weeks, $599 for a day, but it's just jumped back up to its list price of $749. Maybe sales are disappointing but I'm sure it's doing well, 24" was never a big seller but prices are dropping across the board and 24" LCDs are becoming more popular than ever.

Also the delivery estimate has gone from 3-4 weeks to 5-7 days, so maybe they've upped production or at least North American distribution.

 

[konakona]

that extra $180 on dell is kinda hard for me to stomach. A 20'' LCD is plenty large enough for me. Assuming that NEC would have at least as good IQ as the dell, I am going with 20WMGX2 as soon as I decide on other stuff I am getting from egg also

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: crowley
Thank you, xtknight and all the others, for this excellent thread! Very informative.

I'm now joining the "which monitor to buy" dilemma, after my 17" CRT died.

I use my computer mainly for office programs, web surfing, and photo editing (in that order), but I would also like to watch movies so I need good viewing angles. So after reading this thread I automatically eliminated all TN monitors, correct me if I'm wrong.

So by sticking with S-IPS and S-PVA, and reasonable price (for my country), I am limited to the following monitors:

NEC 20WGX2 (not pro?): 735$
Dell 2007FP (S-IPS according to the store): 535$
Dell 2007WFP (S-IPS according to the store): 507$
Dell 2407WFP (not HC. Should I wait for the HC model?): 911$
NEC 2070NX: 678$

Yes, these are insane prices when comparing with most other countries, but that's what I have to live with. Initially I was willing to spend 500$ on a 22" TN monitor, but after ruling out all TN I am willing to spend 200$ more for a good alternative (even if it's 20", although I would really really like a 22"). If the 2407WFP is by far the best of the bunch for my uses, then I will probably stretch my budget and buy it, although 24" is a bit too large for me.

So what are your suggestions?

I believe the NEC 20WGX2 (non Pro, or Pro) is great for your purposes. It has a glossy panel, wide viewing angles, awesome color.

Originally posted by: Arekh
Hi:
Just want some advice on what to buy. I have around $250 to spend (could be a bit more if it is worth it) and am looking for recommendations. I mainly game on my machine. I also watch some occasional movies on it (not that common, but it does happen). I currently have a CRT and really want to replace it mainly because it's tiresome in the eyes when I'm working/reading stuff at night and there is a white or very light background. Currently inspecting the list and browsing around Amazon/Tiger Direct (Basically the only places I could order from.) I've seen:
Samsung 940BX 19"

Samsung 205BW

BenQ Senseye FP202W 20.1"

I mean, realistically, I have no idea if those are actually good choices. Never really dove too much into the world of LCDs. And so I come looking for help.

Thanks in advance!

I would recommend the Acer AL2051W (glossy), the LG L204WT second, and the Samsung 205BW third. The Acer is only $200 at Newegg and it's actually the best choice of those three for most people.

 

[Arekh]

Originally posted by: xtknightI would recommend the Acer AL2051W (glossy), the LG L204WT second, and the Samsung 205BW third. The Acer is only $200 at Newegg and it's actually the best choice of those three for most people.

Ooooh, The Acer one does look nice. Guess I'm jumping on that one.

Thanks a lot! :thumbsup:

EDIT: Just a quicky Question. How's the AL2223WD compared to the AL2051W? It's 22" and still under my $250 range. Just wondering if it's worth it considering newegg's specs also list it has less viewing angle and colors but a faster response. Is it worth giving those up for the size increase?

 

[Compellor]

I had the Acer AL223WD for a few weeks and took it back. I knew it was a TN panel but for $189 I thought I could live with its faults. Color and sharpness were great but the viewing angles and black crush were pretty bad.

Get the Acer AL2051W and don't look back. P-MVA panels are really nice and this one is a steal for under $200.

 

[Aversion]

I'm awaiting a 2407wfp hc but I'm also looking for an office monitor for a friend. This thread is such a goldmine of information I thought I'd come back for more

He has two 19" CRTs at the moment and I think one 22" LCD would make a fine replacement and let us streamline our office space. It will be used mainly for text work.

There's a place locally selling the LG L226wtx-bn ($290cdn) and Samsung 226BW ($340cdn), both of which I've heard a lot about here but remain a bit confused what with all the different versions of the LG and the panel lottery with the Samsung. The LG seems to have better features, particularly in contrast. I'm not concerned about the Samsung's panel lottery given the available profiles for the A and C panels but is it worth the extra $50? The LG looks the better buy on paper, is there's anything I'm missing between the two monitors that would explain the price difference, is one of them 6bit?

Thanks.

 

[konakona]

Yet another contender here: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2085928&enterthread=y

between the Dell and the NEC, the choice was clear for me: I once made a mistake of going for 19'' shadowmask over 17'' trinitron and mourned and regretted about it for years to come. To me, quality >>> size as I dont do much of FPS gaming these at all. Even then, at this price it really makes me ponder. ($299 vs $400/$569)

Now, I never seen any of these monitors and not sure if I would really be that unhappy with TN panels. My primary use would be watching anime (fairly static ones) and visual novels, so near or complete static color quality is the foremost concern. So is IPS/PVA vs TN difference only noticeable to professionals? I consider myself quite sensitivel, having kept my CRT for so long due to dissatisfaction with most LCD units I came across.

It is not like I really need that extra 4''; rather, tis more of $100 less damage to my wallet. Lately my overall expenditure rose sharply stuff after moving to my new place, which got me real concerned.

 

[crowley]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: crowley
Thank you, xtknight and all the others, for this excellent thread! Very informative.

I'm now joining the "which monitor to buy" dilemma, after my 17" CRT died.

I use my computer mainly for office programs, web surfing, and photo editing (in that order), but I would also like to watch movies so I need good viewing angles. So after reading this thread I automatically eliminated all TN monitors, correct me if I'm wrong.

So by sticking with S-IPS and S-PVA, and reasonable price (for my country), I am limited to the following monitors:

NEC 20WGX2 (not pro?): 735$
Dell 2007FP (S-IPS according to the store): 535$
Dell 2007WFP (S-IPS according to the store): 507$
Dell 2407WFP (not HC. Should I wait for the HC model?): 911$
NEC 2070NX: 678$

Yes, these are insane prices when comparing with most other countries, but that's what I have to live with. Initially I was willing to spend 500$ on a 22" TN monitor, but after ruling out all TN I am willing to spend 200$ more for a good alternative (even if it's 20", although I would really really like a 22"). If the 2407WFP is by far the best of the bunch for my uses, then I will probably stretch my budget and buy it, although 24" is a bit too large for me.

So what are your suggestions?

I believe the NEC 20WGX2 (non Pro, or Pro) is great for your purposes. It has a glossy panel, wide viewing angles, awesome color.

If I can guarantee that the Dell 2007WFP will have S-IPS, which is the same panel (LG.Philips LM201W01) as the NEC 20WGX2, will there still be a reason to prefer the NEC, except for the glossy panel? Do the monitors perform differently if the panels are the same, and are there known problems with the S-IPS 2007WFP?

Thanks!

 

[konakona]

Now with more choices from Acer (24'' for $317AR) and Samsung (22'' for $173)
To go S-IPS or not, that is the question.
I doubt I would be able to play around too much with monitors on display at retail stores. Could be kinda hard to judge just by what basic desktop looks like.

Oh well, I am still partial to the NEC, at least I know I would be getting the best IQ attainable with LCDs within a reasonable price range. Yet some claim after 24'' you cant go back. What are they really using these monitors for? Most of the stuff I watch nowadays come in either 1280x760 or 704x396 with a rare mix of 1024x576 or 640x480. With source material limited at these resolutions, I wonder if 24'' is a good thing to have (especially when I am the sole user sitting at the desk close from the screen).

crowley, I believe glossy vs non-glossy still matters.

 

[gsellis]

OK, I am narrowing it down to three (well two, with a slight maybe). My Iiyama VisionMaster 450p died and I need to replace it (this Dell CRT that came with the kid's computers is bad for color.) I HD video edit, so I was hoping for better gamut. BUT, we are paying for a college kid (see what mom and dad have to do while you are at school...), so the budget does not exist.

It is down to the NEC 20WGX2 (MIR 100 for $400 final price eventually), the Acer AL2051W, and the Dell 2407WFP HC. The Dell is last as it is ~$600. I can swing the 20WGX2, but the price hurts at the moment. Is it that much better than the 2051? I will occasionally game on it through my ATI 1950Pro. And I want to spent the least for the most as I have to pay for some music and production costs on stuff I am working on.

Yep, I spent $575 on my CRT (retail was higher, know the rep.) But I was single then and that monitor lasted more than 6 years! If it could have just held on a little longer... The challenges of doing pro work on a No/Lo budget