[Retired] The LCD Thread

[konakona]

Just picked up the 24'' soyo.
Need to spend some time adjusting it though...
Trying to figure out how to use that color profile Viper GTS posted in that soyo thread.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: osage

Originally posted by: konakona
I am quite skeptical, but if this person is right then...
http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2085928&enterthread=y
he claims the $299 soyo (24'') is S-PVA. Again, I find it very hard to believe but oh well

ripped this from another site:

Date Posted: Aug/23/2007 9:00 AM
Rating: 0

Panel identified:

Originally posted by: Phrozen @ SD

Just opened and put back together in about 5 mins

Turns out its a AU Optronics P-MVA (M240UW01 V0) Panel.

BENQ owns AU Optronics, which is currently the second largest panel manufacturer behind Samsung (edging LG, Philips).

Acer AL2423W also has this same panel...

Also at Anandtech.com


Originally posted by: Sikish
Got one. It's S-PVA panel, same thing used in Dell 2407 and my Acer AL2423W. Great deal guys

I was skeptical but it appeared to be confirmed that the panel is not a TN 6 bit but a true 8 bit panel S-PVA.


I got one of these on thursday, it is HUGE, colors are excellent, and it is clear and bright. 24" for less that $300. OTD, no rebates seems excellent to me.
granted I don't know $hit about LCDs as this is my first one, but it sure looks good to me.

Well, thanks for the info. Knew it was VA just not P-MVA/S-PVA/etc...

Originally posted by: KS12
hi, new here.

i just got a dell 2007wfp and i was hopinh to get a s-ips monitor (i heard it's the best one) but it looks like i lost in dell's little lottery thing. is there really a big difference between the dell s-ips and s-pva? (note that i don't have any experience with a s-ips or a s-pva so i don't know if i can tell a difference) i mainly use the monitor for gaming and school work for college, no photo editing but i watch movies on it occasionally. overall though, i'm pretty happy with the monitor compared to my old 17" benq monitor. theres no dead pixel, i don't think theres any back light bleeding issues and etc. so is really worth it to send it back to dell and hope that they send a s-ips monitor instead?

Many people seem to think so. All I can say, is if you're happy with what you have then don't yearn for anything else. It's not worth opening up your panel, checking telltale signs, or requesting a refurb if you're happy with what you got.

Originally posted by: cwy
I use Samsung 245bw (native 1920x1200) LCD widescreen monitor, and it doesn't supports 1600x1200. So there are some games I can't play in that res, especially older ones that have no widescreen support. Is there any workaround that will let me play them at 1600x1200?

My video card is Geforce 8800gtx. The nvidia control panel lets me create custom resolutions. I tried to create 1600x1200 but can't do it. Can someone help me as to what to enter for timing parameters and all that crap?

Note that the nvidia driver is able scale the image to a fixed-aspect ratio, so the 4:3 image wouldn't be distorted. All I need is to create a 1600x1200 res in the control panel so my games would hopefully recognize it.

I need this monitor for its HDCP support in viewing HD DVD and Blu-ray discs. This was the cheapest monitor I could find that has that. I knew I would have to forgo 1600x1200. Is there a solution at all?

You should be able to set the graphics card to scale 1600x1200. Messing with all the custom timings shouldn't be needed. Just use GTF (general timing formula) or CVT (coordinated video timings) at the top of the dialog.

Originally posted by: konakona
Just picked up the 24'' soyo.
Need to spend some time adjusting it though...
Trying to figure out how to use that color profile Viper GTS posted in that soyo thread.

There are instructions in Chapter VI of the OP on how to use icc and icm profiles.

 

[konakona]

thx, got it all setup.
with brightness at 80% and contrast at 60% the monitor looks quite good. Now poorly encoded 704x396 stuff looks a bit blocky in full screen mode.. 1280x760 material looks sweet though

 

[xxTurbonium]

Hello,

What's the best 22 inch widescreen S-IPS panel on the market right now?

 

[Skott]

All 22" LCDs are TN panels.

 

[xxTurbonium]

Originally posted by: Skott
All 22" LCDs are TN panels.

Ok, then what are my options for widescreen IPS panels?

 

[konakona]

according to other threads I have read, the 20'' NEC is your best best as far as IPS panels go, due to the inherent problem of scaling IPS tech has.

I recently bought a P-MVA monitor and like it quite a lot.

 

[xxTurbonium]

What do you mean "scaling IPS" problem? Do you mean making larger panel IPS panels?

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: databird
What do you mean "scaling IPS" problem? Do you mean making larger panel IPS panels?

precisely.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: konakona
(...) due to the inherent problem of scaling IPS tech has.

I would be curious to know more about this. You mean it is more problematic, for example to make a 52-inch S-IPS LCD TV than a 52-inch S-PVA LCD TV?

I can understand more expensive, but you are saying there are technical problems as well? Is it because S-IPS panels are more complex that they are more prone to defects, for example?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP

Originally posted by: konakona
(...) due to the inherent problem of scaling IPS tech has.

I would be curious to know more about this. You mean it is more problematic, for example to make a 52-inch S-IPS LCD TV than a 52-inch S-PVA LCD TV?

I can understand more expensive, but you are saying there are technical problems as well? Is it because S-IPS panels are more complex that they are more prone to defects, for example?

I don't think this is the case. It's probably easier to make S-IPS displays with bigger dot pitches since not as much precision is needed. But, maybe more material is needed. Liquid crystals themselves are cheap but I'm talking about color filters, backlights, inverters, whatever else may be needed.

Either that or there's just no market. I'm sure Samsung's S-PVA market share for 20-30" desktop LCDs is significantly higher than LG Philips LCD's S-IPS share. On TNs both South Korean companies are about equal but IPS panels are obviously having trouble, explaining the price premiums.

 

[imported_DaNVeR]

Let me first say that this is probably the most in-depth LCD thread I have found anywhere on the web. Huge thanks to xtknight and everyone else who has contributed to the mass of information here.

So after much trolling and hours of going through the information here I decided to post for a little input from the experts. Here's the jist. With an LCD budget of $400 or less, a primary use of FPS gaming(CoD2, CS:S, BF2142, and soon to be released Crysis and COD4) in mind and a desire to have a 1680x1050 widescreen, I am likely looking at a LCD in the 20" to 22" spectrum. I will be driving the screen with an 8800GTS640 video card and plan to utilize DVI. I have been leaning toward the LG 22". So my questions are:

1. Is there any difference between the L226WTQ and the L226WTY models? As I would understand the very first entry in this thread they are the same. Is there any difference when applying the color profiles/monitor settings?

2. For gaming, would you possibly recommend the the w2207 with it's glossy finish over the LG's Anti-Glare coating?

2. With the budget I have set and FPS gaming in mind, would I be better off going with a slightly smaller 20.1" S-IPS instead of a 22" TN (I have a line on a 20WMGX2 for just under $400)?

Thanks,
Dan

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
...but IPS panels are obviously having trouble, explaining the price premiums.

Are IPS monitors selling less because they are more expensive, or are they more expensive because they are selling less?

As I mentionned in another thread sometime ago, I don't understand how LG, Philips, Toshiba (some models) and Panasonic can be very much price-competitive with their S-IPS LCD sets in the TV market, but when it comes to computer monitors, suddently, S-IPS panels command a huge price premium.

 

[Scalarscience]

Originally posted by: xtknight
If you're complaining that 21" is strainful on your eyes then you won't be complaining about the comfort you derive from using a nice 27" S-PVA display. There's no reason to get a 30" instead, it has a considerably smaller dot pitch than the 21" you already have and a resolution you can hardly game at (and not to mention higher price). The 27" seems perfect to me.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

Font size isn't the only issue. What I'm also looking for is a high enough resolution to fit a layout on the screen at a scaling that is a multiple of 25%. This tends to not only generate an ideal interpolation of the artwork when zooming in or out (in large format print work for instance) but also means that I tend to use screensets to separate tasks and deal with zooming via keybind/toolbar. Since I've had this monitor I find myself relying on screenset support in various applications to faclitate the more fractional zoom values. For example usually like 113% or 167% etc.

Anyway recommending the 27" is an interesting idea. There's actually not enough room here to do that right now because of the other gear on my desk (audio mixer, laptop and a midi control surface as well as keyboard and 3 mice) but my current monitors are further towards the rear of the desk so I can see myself building a support stand behind the desk to support the monitor. The larger pixel size of the 27" (0.303 vs 0.27) should make that perfectly workable I would think, especially since it would be at most 12 inches further away.

The question is whether it's worth the extra $300...food for thought. If I were to opt to save the $300 what would your choice be in the 24" range? (I was guessing BenQ FP241W models.)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP

Originally posted by: xtknight
...but IPS panels are obviously having trouble, explaining the price premiums.

Are IPS monitors selling less because they are more expensive, or are they more expensive because they are selling less?

[/quote]

I don't know, I was also thinking about this. I'm no economics major but all I can say is LPL is having trouble because they are likely focusing on efforts on big-screen TV S-IPS technology and not focusing on making monitor S-IPS panel manufacture more efficient. This is just conjecture. It may simply not be possible to make S-IPS panels easier but I don't know why this is the case.

As I mentionned in another thread sometime ago, I don't understand how LG, Philips, Toshiba (some models) and Panasonic can be very much price-competitive with their S-IPS LCD sets in the TV market, but when it comes to computer monitors, suddently, S-IPS panels command a huge price premium.

Exactly what I was thinking. Probably just lack of efforts on the monitor front because of lack of market. Vicious cycle really. They must have a poor prediction of how well cheap S-IPS panels would sell. Actually the price of TNs would just get lower then (and quality too) and consumers would just buy TNs that cost $200 rather than reasonable S-IPS panels that cost $300, so they're still in a ditch.

You may remember that Dell had the 2007WFP on sale for around $340 and it always had an S-IPS panel. This was the same time when the NEC 20WMGX2 was $700 (adding just component inputs and a TV tuner/speakers). Either Dell was selling at a big loss, or S-IPS panels are cheaper than we thought and vendors are to blame.

I don't think Dell switched to S-PVA because S-IPS was a large margin expensive. Likely the price difference is within $10-20 or less. They still use S-IPS panels off and on in the 2007WFP to this day.

In other news the 24" PX2411W is available on Newegg. Planar PX2411W (no I don't know which panel this is, probably S-PVA)

The TN 22" PX2210MV is also available. PX2210MV

The S-IPS PX2611W will probably be in stock soon.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Scalarscience

Originally posted by: xtknight
If you're complaining that 21" is strainful on your eyes then you won't be complaining about the comfort you derive from using a nice 27" S-PVA display. There's no reason to get a 30" instead, it has a considerably smaller dot pitch than the 21" you already have and a resolution you can hardly game at (and not to mention higher price). The 27" seems perfect to me.

Hi, thanks for the reply.

Font size isn't the only issue. What I'm also looking for is a high enough resolution to fit a layout on the screen at a scaling that is a multiple of 25%. This tends to not only generate an ideal interpolation of the artwork when zooming in or out (in large format print work for instance) but also means that I tend to use screensets to separate tasks and deal with zooming via keybind/toolbar. Since I've had this monitor I find myself relying on screenset support in various applications to faclitate the more fractional zoom values. For example usually like 113% or 167% etc.

Anyway recommending the 27" is an interesting idea. There's actually not enough room here to do that right now because of the other gear on my desk (audio mixer, laptop and a midi control surface as well as keyboard and 3 mice) but my current monitors are further towards the rear of the desk so I can see myself building a support stand behind the desk to support the monitor. The larger pixel size of the 27" (0.303 vs 0.27) should make that perfectly workable I would think, especially since it would be at most 12 inches further away.

The question is whether it's worth the extra $300...food for thought. If I were to opt to save the $300 what would your choice be in the 24" range? (I was guessing BenQ FP241W models.)

If 24", then 2407WFP-HC IMO. You did print work and the sRGB space can be more or less emulated via Photoshop. You can't emulate a wide gamut from an sRGB display. Still up to you whether you want the bigger font sizes of a 27" or not. Maybe you were hoping for a magic bullet to help sway you one way or the other, but sadly there is none. The Samsung 275T is what I'd choose just because it has great black levels and I like the Samsung brand better (Dell is not great with service). The bigger size is nice because I'm nearsighted.

Originally posted by: DaNVeR
Let me first say that this is probably the most in-depth LCD thread I have found anywhere on the web. Huge thanks to xtknight and everyone else who has contributed to the mass of information here.

So after much trolling and hours of going through the information here I decided to post for a little input from the experts. Here's the jist. With an LCD budget of $400 or less, a primary use of FPS gaming(CoD2, CS:S, BF2142, and soon to be released Crysis and COD4) in mind and a desire to have a 1680x1050 widescreen, I am likely looking at a LCD in the 20" to 22" spectrum. I will be driving the screen with an 8800GTS640 video card and plan to utilize DVI. I have been leaning toward the LG 22". So my questions are:

1. Is there any difference between the L226WTQ and the L226WTY models? As I would understand the very first entry in this thread they are the same. Is there any difference when applying the color profiles/monitor settings?

AFAIK no there is not a difference, at least not in panel. The biggest difference I would assume would be inclusion of cables/etc, and regrettably I lack specifics here. I have not heard of a single difference myself. One conjecture was that the Q and Y models were created for different retailers to prevent price matching.

2. For gaming, would you possibly recommend the the w2207 with it's glossy finish over the LG's Anti-Glare coating?

Highly subjective but if you have a decent lighting environment then a glossy monitor is a dream.

2. With the budget I have set and FPS gaming in mind, would I be better off going with a slightly smaller 20.1" S-IPS instead of a 22" TN (I have a line on a 20WMGX2 for just under $400)?

Thanks,
Dan

And yes, yes you would. The 20WMGX2 is also glossy and has great image quality (i.e. response time, viewing angle, gamma, color accuracy). I don't think I even have to mention that it would be much better than the w2207 for the price. If you have any more questions about its performance advantages feel free to ask.

 

[blinkstar]

Please, I need some quick advice!

I too am an NEC 20WMGX2 owner, but I want to bump up to a 22-inch screen. I bought and returned an HP w2207 because I thought it was horrible--colors seemed way off but more importantly it had some sort of artificial sharpening that I could not for the life of me find a way to turn off (No "sharpening" option in the menu). I replaced it with a Samsung 226CW (no panel lottery with this newer model) which is much better, but definitely has its flaws ... the top inch or so of the screen is much darker than the rest, for instance. Still, I feel like I can live with the trade off in picture quality from the wonderful NEC, because I just want the extra real estate.

But then I stumbled onto this thread and saw your review for the LG Flatron 22, which you seem to rate pretty highly ... Do you think it is better for gaming than my Samsung 226CW? Please let me know your thoughts on this!

Has anyone else reading this thread seen the LG and Samsung in action? Which did you like better and why?

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: blinkstar
But then I stumbled onto this thread and saw your review for the LG Flatron 22, which you seem to rate pretty highly ... Do you think it is better for gaming than my Samsung 226CW? Please let me know your thoughts on this!

Has anyone else reading this thread seen the LG and Samsung in action? Which did you like better and why?

The Samsung 226CW, with its wide-color-gamut screen, is near the current state-of-the-art for 22-inch monitors. LG is also about to start selling a 22-inch monitor with wide-gamut, the L227WT Series.

Not sure if going from Samsung 226CW to LG L226WTQ would change things a lot. Both are 2ms TN panels from top-tier makers. Have a look at this comparo on DigitalVersus

 

[blinkstar]

Thanks for responding, BernardP!

From the test you linked to, it looks like the LG might be superior. Less ghosting in the image shown. Also, it lists the LG as having a 3000:1 contrast ratio as opposed to the Samsung's 1000:1.

Thanks again for weighing in!

Looks like the LG has much more accurate colors too (after calibration) than the Samsung--or am I reading this graph wrong?

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...27&p1=2107&ma2=36&ph=1

 

[arley]

First, many thanks to xtkinght and all the contributors to this masterful summary of LCD options.

I'm reading conflicting reports on the NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2-- the thread lists it as HDCP compliant, but that isn't mentioned on the NEC website, and the Ziff Davis review of the monitor specifically says it isn't. (as does the prad.de link).

While I don't yet have a Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player, I probably will have one or the other within the lifetime of my next monitor purchase (assuming the prices fall like most new stuff), and I'd like to buy a monitor that I could watch hi def dvd's on.

I may have to be satisfied with the Samsung 205BW until I can save up enough money for a big honkin' Dell.

 

[FireChicken]

How is the Acer 24" Model: X241WSD?? Decent monitor?? I dont see this monitor on acer's website Its on sale at Best Buy for $399
Worth it for a TN? If I am thinking about getting a 22"(the LG), is it worth the extra $50-100 or so to get this monitor?

EDIT: Just saw that it was on sale at microcenter for $319 so maybe not such a good deal after all

 

[padmewan]

I'm almost convinced of buying a 20WMGX2. However, despite reading through this thread, I'm still not sure about the answers to the following questions:

1. What happens if I plug in my Playstation 2 using S-Video into the monitor? Has anyone done this and can testify as to what happens?

2. I have a TV-card in my computer (Compro Gold+). Is the quality of the monitor's built-in conversion better than my TV-card's? Doesn't the TV-card have a lot more computing power available to it? Or does proximity to the final output (the monitor) make a bigger difference?

Thanks, all! Great thread! Too much information to digest (I've read several dozen pages but still can't get through it all -- did my best to search the topic and the forum).

 

[xxTurbonium]

Are the following two models the same?:

LG L226WTQ-SF
LG L226WTQ

The SF seems to have a silver bezel. Is that the only difference? I'd certainly rather a black bezel...

Is there a model with all black stand and bezel? What's the model number for it?

 

[Skott]

Originally posted by: databird
Are the following two models the same?:

LG L226WTQ-SF
LG L226WTQ

The SF seems to have a silver bezel. Is that the only difference? I'd certainly rather a black bezel...

Is there a model with all black stand and bezel? What's the model number for it?

L226WTQ-BF

http://i190.photobucket.com/al...5/Skott62/IMG_1761.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/al...5/Skott62/IMG_1776.jpg

The picture doesnt do it any justice really. cheap camera and bad lighting. Its a great monitor though. No ghosting. Totally love it.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: blinkstar
Thanks for responding, BernardP!

From the test you linked to, it looks like the LG might be superior. Less ghosting in the image shown. Also, it lists the LG as having a 3000:1 contrast ratio as opposed to the Samsung's 1000:1.

Thanks again for weighing in!

Looks like the LG has much more accurate colors too (after calibration) than the Samsung--or am I reading this graph wrong?

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...27&p1=2107&ma2=36&ph=1

You are reading the graph correctly. Contrast ratio is mostly useless, as it refers to Dynamic contrast, not the true contrast of the panel. You will be lucky to get something between 500 and 700 in real life with both monitors.

The LG is one of the best rated 22-inch widescreen in the Opening Post of this thread. The Samsung 226CW is still an unknown quantity at this point. DigitalVersus is a translation of French web site lesNumeriques.com. They have not yet published their review of the 226CW, only the raw test images in the visual comparison.

You should be aware that there is a "ghosting" problem with some units of the L226WTQ. This is caused by the overdrive circuitry.

You might want to go have a look at the HP 2207, just in case you fall in love with the glossy screen.