[Retired] The LCD Thread

[TVisitor]

As far as my original post - if I can find (and I have) a BenQ FP241WZ, which would be the choice of most - that or the Dell 2407...? Keep in mind this is ONLY being driven from a PC. I would say the BenQ, only becuase it got higher ratings in the original post... but "today" what is the story?

 

[F1N3ST]

I had a good experiewnce with my sceptre X20WG-Naga 20" wide, no dead pixels, worked great for 6 months, VGA and DVI burnt out, RMA'ed it, I had my monitor back in less than a week and its still in prisine condition and works great, the 1-year warranty is sweet, it has 5ms response and does not ghost, and i think it has 1000:1 contrast ratio

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: speckedhoncho
xtknight:

I think I'm confused. It could be how LCD TV's pixels are arrayed versus monitors. CRT monitors gave me the same sense of dullness on the screen that a TV wouldn't.

I'll spend time investigating this instead of drawing this argument out.

There are at least two types of anti-glare coating (3H and 4H). One might have less of a "speckle" look than the other, but sorry that I don't know any more than this.

Originally posted by: TVisitor
As far as my original post - if I can find (and I have) a BenQ FP241WZ, which would be the choice of most - that or the Dell 2407...? Keep in mind this is ONLY being driven from a PC. I would say the BenQ, only becuase it got higher ratings in the original post... but "today" what is the story?

Today the story is the same. If today the story was not the same the OP would be modified to reflect that. I hope this clarifies things. I try not to leave anything in the OP that is out of date (except price which fluctuates too often for me to update reliably).

Clearly you're a little unsure about the choice. The BenQ is a better choice because of its overall screen quality (uniformity and response time). Plus a lot of material these days is still sRGB so you could say it has the upper hand there, but certainly if you're working only with general usage or sRGB material. I don't even recommend the 2407WFP-HC for anything with motion because of its ghosting problems. It's fine for office work and it has a good set of ergonomics. Roughly equal here anyway but the Dell is cheaper and it lacks the response time accel features of the FP241WZ that might be confusing to office workers. Let me know if you have any further questions.

Originally posted by: F1N3ST
I had a good experiewnce with my sceptre X20WG-Naga 20" wide, no dead pixels, worked great for 6 months, VGA and DVI burnt out, RMA'ed it, I had my monitor back in less than a week and its still in prisine condition and works great, the 1-year warranty is sweet, it has 5ms response and does not ghost, and i think it has 1000:1 contrast ratio

Good to hear. (For reference, this is a 6-bit TN.) Only thing I remember that bothered people about the Sceptre was the bright logo on the front.

 

[TVisitor]

Thanks xtknight - you are correct in your assessment - clearly, I am confused, but thanks for putting my question to rest. I appreciate it!

Have you heard anything about these monitors?

KDS K-24MDWB

DCLCD DCL24A Black 24" 2ms

 

[Pyromaniac]

I recently bought a 20WMGX2(AS-IPS) and noticed that I get a temporary burn in, particularly the recycle bin icon (which is white against a black wallpaper). Even if I have my desktop up for a second and go into a game, a temporary burn of a couple icons will stay there for about 5-10 minutes. I've only had the monitor for three days and this happens after it being on for only about a half hour. my brightness is at 75% and the screen feels pretty warm. Is this normal? Do i have my brightness up too high?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Pyromaniac
I recently bought a 20WMGX2(AS-IPS) and noticed that I get a temporary burn in, particularly the recycle bin icon (which is white against a black wallpaper). Even if I have my desktop up for a second and go into a game, a temporary burn of a couple icons will stay there for about 5-10 minutes. I've only had the monitor for three days and this happens after it being on for only about a half hour. my brightness is at 75% and the screen feels pretty warm. Is this normal? Do i have my brightness up too high?

I have had some burn-in problems on my NEC lately as well, but oddly enough it varies one day to the next. Sometimes I can see my start menu burnt in, other days it's barely visible.

It is surely a problem with S-IPS technology but I haven't noticed it for a year or so. I measured the screen with an infrared meter and it read about 100F at the burnt in places (no higher in other non-burnt places). The ViewSonic VP930b (P-MVA) next to me reads 110F and it has no burn-in problems.

I tried using the screen upside down (heat rises) but the burn-in did not subside. It's probably not due to heat but the crystals themselves being stuck. I may try running some dead pixel testers on the spots and see if they get any better. There are no dead pixels but burn-in is just a shadow of what could become dead pixels, I believe.

It would be a pain to have to do this all the time, but something that always seems to work is turning off the display for awhile. I use it a ton during the day and overnight it usually has time to recover. Since I will be at school during the day soon it won't be as bad so consider whether or not it will be a permanent issue for you as well.

I am using lower brightness settings, with brightness at 32 and contrast of 60. Lowering it does help but it also can make the burn-in more visible temporarily. I'll see if the dead pixel testers fix my burnt-in spots at all. Mine is a little different though, it's a quite permanent spot at the top of the screen. It is also solved by turning off the LCD for awhile, though it quickly reappears upon turning the LCD on.

 

[Pyromaniac]

The burn-ins being temporary doesnt bother me, I'm just very concerned that it will turn into a permanent burn-in. I lowered my brightness to 50% now and will probably lower it more later. I always turn off my monitor when I'm not using it. It's good to know that this happens only some of the time. Maybe in the winter it won't be as bad.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Pyromaniac
The burn-ins being temporary doesnt bother me, I'm just very concerned that it will turn into a permanent burn-in. I lowered my brightness to 50% now and will probably lower it more later. I always turn off my monitor when I'm not using it. It's good to know that this happens only some of the time. Maybe in the winter it won't be as bad.

I have used mine for a year without noticing anything, so hopefully yours is the same way. The burn-in on the top of mine is indeed quite permanent but it's light enough not to bother me much.

 

[Luddite]

Hi xtknight,

So what is the secret to getting the best text from a display? From reading this thread so far: Should the display be a S-PVA type panel, and is Vista better than XP at reproducing text? I'm looking at 20" LCD models, but should I maybe be looking at 23" or 24" for a larger pixel pitch? I still want the sharpest possible rendering though. I do mostly (90%) office work and about 10% photo work. I know that I don't like glossy screens. And money is almost no object.

Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite
Hi xtknight,

So what is the secret to getting the best text from a display? From reading this thread so far: Should the display be a S-PVA type panel, and is Vista better than XP at reproducing text? I'm looking at 20" LCD models, but should I maybe be looking at 23" or 24" for a larger pixel pitch? I still want the sharpest possible rendering though. I do mostly (90%) office work and about 10% photo work. I know that I don't like glossy screens. And money is almost no object.

Thanks.

Yes it's my opinion that S-PVA panels are best for text, since they have high contrast and tend to produce soft fonts. S-IPS panels are good too but they are not worth the premium just for text viewing, due to their high price and lower contrast. S-PVA panels have less screen door effect, and less burn-in than IPS panels. Even TNs are better for simple text usage IMO. IPS panels have great strength in color reproduction but not necessarily any text improvements over the other panel types. Big dot pitch displays of any type aren't great for fonts due to the appearance of a white outline in text.

Vista is better than XP for text reproduction, and its ClearType (subpixel hinting) tech is quite a needed improvement as well. Overall Linux/Mac would probably take the cake, but Vista's font reproduction is certainly decent. DPI scaling is still poor with Vista, no improvement over XP according to reports.

Dot pitch doesn't matter that much (although a 19"'s dot pitch is a bit big, its font reproduction is still mediocre or fine).

20", 23", and 24" are all perfect sizes for text usage. 25.5" and 27" are OK if you need something a little bigger. 25.5" (26") may be a sweet spot but there aren't any models I would recommend for this size except the expensive Planar PX2611W and the extremely expensive NEC LCD2690WUXi which is just ridiculously expensive for text usage.

Looks towards the Dell 2407WFP-HC for text usage. It's a perfect size, S-PVA panel, and a good price. Yes it does have a few ghosting issues but for text usage this won't be much of any problem. The 2407WFP was notorious for a host of problems, including text reproduction issues, but Dell has considerably improved on this problems on the A04 rev of the 2407WFP, and the 2407WFP-HC which is the 2407WFP A04+new backlight, essentially (except for slight ghosting issues).

 

[Luddite]

Thanks very much xtknight. Extremely helpful.

What exactly do you mean by 'soft' fonts? ...as opposed to sharp fonts?

Would an H-IPS panel be more or less the same as an S-IPS panel with regard to text quality?

So, Mac/Linux O/S is best for reproducing text? I didn't know that; it sure throws a different light on my decision.

Thanks again

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Pyromaniac
The burn-ins being temporary doesnt bother me, I'm just very concerned that it will turn into a permanent burn-in. I lowered my brightness to 50% now and will probably lower it more later. I always turn off my monitor when I'm not using it. It's good to know that this happens only some of the time. Maybe in the winter it won't be as bad.

I have used mine for a year without noticing anything, so hopefully yours is the same way. The burn-in on the top of mine is indeed quite permanent but it's light enough not to bother me much.

About burning and LCD screens:

BeHardware article

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TVisitor
Thanks xtknight - you are correct in your assessment - clearly, I am confused, but thanks for putting my question to rest. I appreciate it!

Have you heard anything about these monitors?

KDS K-24MDWB

DCLCD DCL24A Black 24" 2ms

Sorry, I don't know anything about those LCDs and I have never seen reviews of them. They both look like TNs to me (160/160 viewing angle) so I would avoid them for 24". The FP241WZ (8-bit MVA) is the best choice.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite
Thanks very much xtknight. Extremely helpful.

What exactly do you mean by 'soft' fonts? ...as opposed to sharp fonts?

Would an H-IPS panel be more or less the same as an S-IPS panel with regard to text quality?

So, Mac/Linux O/S is best for reproducing text? I didn't know that; it sure throws a different light on my decision.

Thanks again

In other words, soft and sharp, not harsh and ragged.

H-IPS panel? No idea honestly, but probably the same as an S-IPS.

Yes Mac and Linux do have superior font engines IMO.

 

[Pyromaniac]

thanks for the link bernardP, apparently my problem is sticking due to overamplification for better response time. Hopefully turning it off when I'm not using it is enough to keep it from being permanent.

 

[rxblitzrx]

Just wanted to come back and say thanks to xtknight for starting this thread. I've had my HP LP2065 for 8 months now and it still rocks my world. I've gained a slightly experienced eye to see just how awesome S-IPS panels can be, especially after being tuned with Riva Tuner. I still look at this thing everyday and go "wow". Can't wait to see what AS-IPS can do!

 

[n7]

Hmm, more good news.

And by good, i mean sh!tty :frown:


http://www.engadget.com/2007/0...her-brings-the-webcam/

Dell's new 20" WS looks to be another TN.
It really does look like TNs are infesting every aspect of the LCD market.

It's like a mass adoption of crap...

Seems like pretty soon we're gonna see all the 24-27" being TN too from the looks of it.

Looks like i'll be sticking with my "old" 3007WFP & 204T for a long time.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
Just wanted to come back and say thanks to xtknight for starting this thread. I've had my HP LP2065 for 8 months now and it still rocks my world. I've gained a slightly experienced eye to see just how awesome S-IPS panels can be, especially after being tuned with Riva Tuner. I still look at this thing everyday and go "wow". Can't wait to see what AS-IPS can do!

Good to hear. I also love my S-IPS.

Originally posted by: n7
Hmm, more good news.

And by good, i mean sh!tty :frown:


http://www.engadget.com/2007/0...her-brings-the-webcam/

Dell's new 20" WS looks to be another TN.
It really does look like TNs are infesting every aspect of the LCD market.

It's like a mass adoption of crap...

Seems like pretty soon we're gonna see all the 24-27" being TN too from the looks of it.

Looks like i'll be sticking with my "old" 3007WFP & 204T for a long time.

I think TNs will completely permeate everything under 24" in a very short period of time (except for expensive Apple Cinema/NEC pro displays). That goes without question.

I'm guessing 24" and 30" LCDs should will have at least S-PVA versions for a very long time from now. But I wouldn't be that surprised if many vendors put out some more 24" and 30" TNs. I still think there will be a couple of VAs left.

It's no surprise that a cheap monitor from Dell uses a TN, though. Although I think TNs will takeover 80%-85% of the market, the Dell is not the best example. Samsung's 245BW is a sign of Samsung considering moving to TNs for everything under 27".

 

[Machinus]

http://www.officemax.com/max/s...xpansionOID=-536879891

Is that any good?

 

[KGB]

Regarding the Acer AL2051W... is this discontinued?

I've tried finding this on the web and the only ones I've found are refurbs.

 

[joshc]

xtknight, I have a problem getting a laptop to output a signal to an LCD TV. I started a thread here: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2092124&enterthread=y

Could you please reply there or here with your thoughts?

 

[veras]

I'd like to pick up (optimally) a 24" monitor to be used primarily for gaming, a little image work, pretty much don't care about inputs, and while I don't want to spend some huge amount I'm not on a really tight budget either. I was reading through the recommendations and while I'd love to pick up a 30" dell, I'm concerned that driving the monitor at that resolution will prove to be a pain.

How is the NEC LCD2490WUXi? That's a 24" H-IPS correct?

 

[DRavisher]

xtknight (or anyone else who knows), I've a questiong regarding the "Black and White Levels" setting in the ATI drivers (it's under color in the CCC). The two options are "PC Standard black and white levels" (described as suitable for displaying computer graphics) and "Microsoft MCE black and white levels" (suitable for displaying video content). I've got a HP LP3065 30" LCD.

With PC Standard I'm able to see the entire "Dark Grayscale Test" on lcdresource.com, and can see gradation up to about RGB(250,250,250) when I create a gradient in Paint.NET. With Microsoft MCE most of the dark grayscale is displayed as black, but I can still make out some gradation if I run the webpage full screen (edit: in the higher shades that is). I think I can still se gradation in whites up to about the same level av PC Standard, perhaps a little lower. I'm wondering if you know anything about what this setting does? To me it seems like PC Standard gives a much colder picture, and I can see that most people seem to like Microsoft MCE best, but noone seems to know what the actual difference is. I've heard that movie content often clips the RGB scale and uses something like RGB(16,16,16) (or thereabouts) as black, and 23x or something as white. Could the Microsoft MCE scale be made to better display such content?

It also seems like RGB(0,0,0) is blacker and RGB(255,255,255) is whiter with MS MCE, but it also seems like it's a bit clipped, especially in darkness as seen in the dark grayscale test.

Unfortunately I've not calibrated my display, since I'm not doing any serious image editing or such (and calibrators cost a bit).

Thanks for any help

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I think TNs will completely permeate everything under 24" in a very short period of time (except for expensive Apple Cinema/NEC pro displays). That goes without question.

I'm guessing 24" and 30" LCDs should will have at least S-PVA versions for a very long time from now. But I wouldn't be that surprised if many vendors put out some more 24" and 30" TNs. I still think there will be a couple of VAs left.

It's no surprise that a cheap monitor from Dell uses a TN, though. Although I think TNs will takeover 80%-85% of the market, the Dell is not the best example. Samsung's 245BW is a sign of Samsung considering moving to TNs for everything under 27".

As you are saying...

A new 26-inch TN panel has just appeared on Samsung's web site:

http://www.samsung.com/global/...mly_id=603&fmly_id=609

 

[BernardP]

Hi again xtknight,

I am now considering trying .icm color profiles with my 2407WFP-HC. At this point, I have two basic questions:

--- I would be using the XP Color Control Applet. Is there a risk that I could mess things up with this utility? If I don't like the results and uninstall the profiles and\or the applet, could I end up worse off than when I started and be forced to reinstall Windows to get back to default settings.

--- Will the color profile influence colors in videos played with Windows Media Player or other self-contained video player apps (Videolan or Media Player Classic)?

Thanks