[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xxTurbonium]

Concerning the L226WTQ and L226WTX...

Which one is the newer/better model? My research indicated the Q...

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: databird
Concerning the L226WTQ and L226WTX...

Which one is the newer/better model? My research indicated the Q...

WTX: 5ms. no overdrive.
WTQ: 2ms w overdrive, risk of having "ghosting" motion artifacts.

The WTQ can be the better one if you have a good one :evil:

If you are not a gamer, the WTX is less risky.

 

[xxTurbonium]

Hmm... I suppose I could return it if it has ghosting issues, since I'll be getting it from Future Shop.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: databird
Hmm... I suppose I could return it if it has ghosting issues, since I'll be getting it from Future Shop.

See the ghosting in action in this LesNum comparo. The WT on the left is the same as WTX

http://www.lesnumeriques.com/d...5&mo2=206&p2=2050&ph=1

WT on left: regular LCD display response time problem. WTQ on right: the image is clear thanks to overdrive, but there is now a kind of inverted-image ghosting.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DRavisher
xtknight (or anyone else who knows), I've a questiong regarding the "Black and White Levels" setting in the ATI drivers (it's under color in the CCC). The two options are "PC Standard black and white levels" (described as suitable for displaying computer graphics) and "Microsoft MCE black and white levels" (suitable for displaying video content). I've got a HP LP3065 30" LCD.

I don't have an ATI card so I can't provide definite answers. "PC Standard" sounds like RGB 0-255, and Microsoft MCE 16-235 (common NTSC digital video color standard). See ITU-R_BT.601.

In each 8 bit luminance sample, the value 16 is used for black and 235 for white, to allow for overshoot and undershoot. The values 0 and 255 are used for sync encoding. The Cb and Cr samples use the value 128 to encode a zero value, as used when encoding a white, grey or black area.

Not sure exactly what they mean by overshoot and undershoot but 0-15 and 236-255 seem to be reserved bits for some buffer. Maybe you can achieve better compression by just choosing that range.

With PC Standard I'm able to see the entire "Dark Grayscale Test" on lcdresource.com, and can see gradation up to about RGB(250,250,250) when I create a gradient in Paint.NET. With Microsoft MCE most of the dark grayscale is displayed as black, but I can still make out some gradation if I run the webpage full screen (edit: in the higher shades that is). I think I can still se gradation in whites up to about the same level av PC Standard, perhaps a little lower. I'm wondering if you know anything about what this setting does? To me it seems like PC Standard gives a much colder picture, and I can see that most people seem to like Microsoft MCE best, but noone seems to know what the actual difference is. I've heard that movie content often clips the RGB scale and uses something like RGB(16,16,16) (or thereabouts) as black, and 23x or something as white. Could the Microsoft MCE scale be made to better display such content?

It also seems like RGB(0,0,0) is blacker and RGB(255,255,255) is whiter with MS MCE, but it also seems like it's a bit clipped, especially in darkness as seen in the dark grayscale test.

Unfortunately I've not calibrated my display, since I'm not doing any serious image editing or such (and calibrators cost a bit).

Thanks for any help

By using a smaller range (16-235) you have a larger gamut to display from, so some colors may appear more vibrant.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP
Hi again xtknight,

I am now considering trying .icm color profiles with my 2407WFP-HC. At this point, I have two basic questions:

--- I would be using the XP Color Control Applet. Is there a risk that I could mess things up with this utility? If I don't like the results and uninstall the profiles and\or the applet, could I end up worse off than when I started and be forced to reinstall Windows to get back to default settings.

You really can't mess anything up with this utility. In no way should you be forced to reinstall Windows. Worst case you can use RivaTuner to reset GDI or video card gamma table. Just setting the profile back to the default (sRGB?) should reset gamma.

--- Will the color profile influence colors in videos played with Windows Media Player or other self-contained video player apps (Videolan or Media Player Classic)?

Thanks

If you have those players set to use overlay, they will not be influenced by the ICM profile but instead but your overlay video settings. I was actually messing around trying to get some code to load an ICM onto the overlay of an NVIDIA card but it was a failed experiment. I'm pretty sure the overlay of video cards has quite limited gamma adjustment but I don't know why. NVIDIA has a programming interface that lets you load an ICM onto the overlay but trying this simply resulted in failure on my GeForce 7800GT. Just didn't do anything.

If you use GDI (no acceleration) or VMR7 or VMR9 your ICM could potentially be applied. It should be, but with NVIDIA's new drivers I don't know what they do. They tried to unify overlay and VMR controls so NVIDIA's newer drivers may prevent the ICM from being applied on VMR too. I have no idea what results will be like on ATI cards.

 

[KGB]

Originally posted by: KGBMAN
Regarding the Acer AL2051W... is this discontinued?

I've tried finding this on the web and the only ones I've found are refurbs.

Newegg has this as OOS but who knows if they will get more.

Acer's site lists an AL2052W with identical viewing angles but it seems nobody has it yet.

Has anyone seen this yet?

 

[imported_Septimus]

Looking for a new display solution. My needs:

- Web development (more coding than photoshop, but the occasional graphic work - this is secondary though)
- General productivity (outlook, word)
- Moderate gaming (going to be paired with an 8800 GTS 640)
- Be nice if consoles plugged into it directly (i.e. no need for a TV card intermediary) - this is also secondary though

Current candidates:

1 ViewSonic VX2385 27.5" widescreen LCD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16824116084) )- $679

or

2 Westinghouse L2410NM 24" widescreen LCDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16824255001): $400 ea. after mail-in rebate

The Westinghouse 24" need DVI-->HDMI adapters but those are cheaply had. I am moving up from a single 21" Viewsonic VX2025 and am ambivalent about whether or not I want/need a second display; I had one once at an office several years ago and it was pretty nice, but those were two 17" CRTs.

Does this just come down to a matter of preference? I am leaning towards a single display solution at the moment since something that large can accommodate multitasking pretty easily and is probably a bit better for gaming. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much!

 

[imported_Septimus]

A few googleseconds later, the VX2385 looks disqualified on account of being a poor quality TN. Why is something like the Westinghose 37" LVM-37w3 cheaper than a Dell 27" LCD?

 

[ViRGE]

xtknight, did you happen to catch this thread today?

 

[n7]

Originally posted by: BernardP
As you are saying...

A new 26-inch TN panel has just appeared on Samsung's web site:

http://www.samsung.com/global/...mly_id=603&fmly_id=609

Fantastic :roll:

Utterly fantastic.
The more sh!t, the merrier :roll:

I don't want to even imagine the color shifting nightmare that will be...

 

[BernardP]

Thanks xtknight for the info about .icm profiles vs video players. Video is the only area where I was wondering if applying a profile might give even better results, but it looks like a pointless exercise.

If I understand correctly, calibrating a monitor with as much precision as possible is mostly useful in digital photography work.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Machinus
http://www.officemax.com/max/s...xpansionOID=-536879891

Is that any good?

Yes, I'm glad to say the Soyo 24" is actually a MVA, not a TN, for $300! Go for it if you want a good value. It's not without its flaws (which I can't recite) but certainly the best for the price.

It looks like it's back on sale (perhaps due to popular demand) so it will once again be listed in the OP.

Originally posted by: KGBMAN
Regarding the Acer AL2051W... is this discontinued?

I've tried finding this on the web and the only ones I've found are refurbs.

It may just be out of stock. Newegg's policy is to remove a product after 2 weeks of being out of stock (which explains the PX2611W's absense also). This may be the same as other vendors. Let's wait it out and see what happens until making a judgment.

Meanwhile you'll have to find another LCD, if you're in a hurry. I recommend waiting a bit to see if they get it back in stock.

Originally posted by: joshc
xtknight, I have a problem getting a laptop to output a signal to an LCD TV. I started a thread here: http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2092124&enterthread=y

Could you please reply there or here with your thoughts?

See your thread.

 

[asianvcl]

I just got off the phone with an NEC rep 5 minutes ago. I called in concern to a newegg review (of the 20wmgx2) i had read on the monitor (damuman's post) about how the panel is now out of production and soon will be replaced by a TN panel version. This really irritated me because i have been meaning to save up to purchase this monitor, and was hopefully wishing NEC would build the same type of monitor with the same AS-IPS panel at a 22" and 24".

I asked the rep whether or not newer editions of this monitor were to be expected and he gave me the model numbers. They are: 22mgx for the 22" and 24wmcx for the 24". I asked if it had the same panel and he said he didn't know. I asked when they would be released and he said they can be expected in October, however the 24" wont have opticlear until March of 2008. He also said the 22" will have a price of about $380.00 with a m.i.r of around 20-30 dollars (i cant remember how much). He couldn't give me the price range of the 24" but confirmed it would have a m.i.r. of $30. I was a little curious about why the price for a 22" was cheaper than the 20" and he simply responded that its to "compete in the market". I'm not convinced that's the real reason. I really hope NEC doesn't make these monitors TN panel as damuman's review suggested. I guess if you're looking to get the 20wmgx2 now is the time because the rep confirmed that the monitor is out of production.

That's all the information i could haggle out of him (as it's clear he didn't know what the true panel on this monitor is, which just happens to be my biggest concern). Any other information from informed users would greatly be appreciated since I have been looking to upgrade my monitor the last few weeks.

 

[Beh]

I am one of the lucky few who seems to have picked up a Soyo 24" MVA with little to no issues. I must say I'm very pleased with this monitor considering its price.

I came to this monitor from a history of using only TN panels. I had heard of the other panels qualities but never had a chance to experience it firsthand. Now I don't think I can ever go back.

I any case I had a small question concerning the calibration. I had to eyeball everything since I lack proper calibration equipment. I wanted to set everything through the monitor's OSD so it could be shuttled around between different computers without much fuss.

I eventually settled on a user defined color setting of 38/38/38, contrast at 50, and brightness at 40. I checked the tests at lcdresource.com among other places and the colors in the images come out great but on the dark greyscale test I can make out all the stages down to RGB(3,3,3). Below that 2, 1, and 0 appear to be the same darkness.

Is this an acceptable result considering it's price and the fact that I had to calibrate it by eye? If I set anything higher the colors are washed out, besides, I don't get the feeling that any game is too dark. Except for maybe Doom 3. In a game like FarCry though, I can be crawling through dark oppressive tunnels then 1 minute later I'm blinded by the sunlight reflecting off the sand outside. That's to be expected, right?

Anyway, thanks for your time.

 

[wizziwig]

Originally posted by: Beh
I am one of the lucky few who seems to have picked up a Soyo 24" MVA with little to no issues. I must say I'm very pleased with this monitor considering its price.

I eventually settled on a user defined color setting of 38/38/38, contrast at 50, and brightness at 40. I checked the tests at lcdresource.com among other places and the colors in the images come out great but on the dark greyscale test I can make out all the stages down to RGB(3,3,3). Below that 2, 1, and 0 appear to be the same darkness.

Is this an acceptable result considering it's price and the fact that I had to calibrate it by eye? If I set anything higher the colors are washed out, besides, I don't get the feeling that any game is too dark. Except for maybe Doom 3. In a game like FarCry though, I can be crawling through dark oppressive tunnels then 1 minute later I'm blinded by the sunlight reflecting off the sand outside. That's to be expected, right?

Anyway, thanks for your time.

I found the same black level results as you on my Soyo. I think the problem is caused by the way this monitor does "brightness" adjustment. Instead of changing power to the backlight (as every other LCD I've used), it simply adjusts the RGB values up/down. This causes you to lose the RGB levels that are clipped off. I already posted this in the "Deals" forum.. so I'll just repeat it here:

"Has anyone with a meter measured the black level and white level of this monitor to determine real-world contrast? It seems very poor from what I've seen. The black is probably the worst I've seen on an LCD in recent history. Even with lights on in the room, anything with a black background just shows up as gray/purple instead of black.

I think the problem is that the backlight is set to a very high brightness with no way to adjust it lower. The brightness and contrast sliders do not effect the backlight (these controls just tweak the RGB values like the sliders in your video card's control panel). Lack of backlight control also makes this panel too bright when used in a dark environment.

Has anyone else compared this to their other LCD's blacks? I'm using the Dell 2001FP as reference. "

 

[DRavisher]

I've a quick question about how a LCD screen draws its image. I'm simply wondering if a LCD screen refreshes its pixels in the same order as a CRT screen, starting at top left and working its way down to the bottom right (or is it top right to bottom left)? From what I can understand this is the way the image is sent from the graphics card, so wouldn't it be best to display it right away as recieved?

What I've been told is that the LCD will buffer the entire frame, and when everything is recieved it will refresh all the millions of pixels simultaneously, but wouldn't this introduce more input lag than is necessary (at 60 Hz I'd think the lag versus CRT would be somewhere between 1/60 s = 16.7 ms and 0 ms depending on which part of the screen we're looking at)?

If all the pixels are in fact refreshed simultaneously, any idea how long this process would take from start to finish? From my understanding of how a TFT matrix works, all the pixels can't possibly be updated at the same time, but perhaps it can be done so quickly that it doesn't really matter anyway.

Thanks for a wonderful thread xtknight

 

[BernardP]

How much more does a 26-inch MVA cost over a 26-inch TN?

according to this DailyTech Article, the cost difference is between $20 and $40.

So now, every manufacturer is moving towards TN panels to save this relatively small amount. Of course, when everybody down the production chain has taken its markup on this $30, it ends up at a couple hundred $ in the final selling price.

This article also indicates that 26-inch might be next mainstream monitor size.

 

[nytmarezz]

Just out of curiosity.....

link --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824211009

Brand - DCLCD
Model - DCL24A
Display Screen Size - 24"
Resolution - 1920 x 1200
Viewing Angle - 160°(H) / 160°(V)
Response Time - 2ms

......is there a 2ms, 24" TN panel out? .....or is this just poor marketing? I thought the only 24" TN panel was rated at 5ms.

 

[Atreus21]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: TVisitor
Thanks xtknight - you are correct in your assessment - clearly, I am confused, but thanks for putting my question to rest. I appreciate it!

Have you heard anything about these monitors?

KDS K-24MDWB

DCLCD DCL24A Black 24" 2ms

Sorry, I don't know anything about those LCDs and I have never seen reviews of them. They both look like TNs to me (160/160 viewing angle) so I would avoid them for 24". The FP241WZ (8-bit MVA) is the best choice.

Why should TN panels be avoided for 24" displays? I've been looking at the DCLCD 24" model, and man, that beats the price for any 24" display I've seen so far.

Which has me sniffing for a catch.

 

[guptasa1]

I'm looking into a 24" monitor for my new build (both productivity and gaming purposes), and considering the Dell WFP2407-HC (not looking likely right now due to the ghosting issue...otherwise this would be my choice) and the BenQ 24" offering, but I've heard good things about the LG offering as well. Any particular reason it's not listed in the gaming section of this list like the BenQ? Thanks.

 

[KGB]

Originally posted by: KGBMAN
Regarding the Acer AL2051W... is this discontinued?

I've tried finding this on the web and the only ones I've found are refurbs.

It may just be out of stock. Newegg's policy is to remove a product after 2 weeks of being out of stock (which explains the PX2611W's absense also). This may be the same as other vendors. Let's wait it out and see what happens until making a judgment.

Meanwhile you'll have to find another LCD, if you're in a hurry. I recommend waiting a bit to see if they get it back in stock.[/quote]

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, it looks like Newegg has removed it from their site. GONE!

Here's what I'm looking for:

A 20"-24" widescreen LCD (non-TN) but I have a budget of less than $500USD.
I would have jumped all over that Acer if I had known in time.

Here are a couple of options:

There is a Ferrari version of the Acer still offered for about $400 with similar specs. Does this haqve the same panel?

I have also found an HP unit but does it match up?

xtknight, if you haven't heard already THANKS for this incredible thread. It's a great service. :beer:

 

[TVisitor]

OK, I've just recently snagged a 2407WFP from work to try overnight (not the Ultrasharp, this is the prior version without HDCP I believe). It's Rev A02.

A simple question: Does it suffer the same ghosting issue as the 2407WFP-HC?

I personally did not seem to have an issue. I know lots of these things are subjective. If that is the case, then I guess I know my "eye benchmark" so to speak.

Thanks.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Septimus
Looking for a new display solution. My needs:

- Web development (more coding than photoshop, but the occasional graphic work - this is secondary though)
- General productivity (outlook, word)
- Moderate gaming (going to be paired with an 8800 GTS 640)
- Be nice if consoles plugged into it directly (i.e. no need for a TV card intermediary) - this is also secondary though

Current candidates:

1 ViewSonic VX2385 27.5" widescreen LCD (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16824116084) )- $679

or

2 Westinghouse L2410NM 24" widescreen LCDs (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...?Item=N82E16824255001): $400 ea. after mail-in rebate

The Westinghouse 24" need DVI-->HDMI adapters but those are cheaply had. I am moving up from a single 21" Viewsonic VX2025 and am ambivalent about whether or not I want/need a second display; I had one once at an office several years ago and it was pretty nice, but those were two 17" CRTs.

Does this just come down to a matter of preference? I am leaning towards a single display solution at the moment since something that large can accommodate multitasking pretty easily and is probably a bit better for gaming. Any suggestions?

Thanks very much!

Like you mentioned the ViewSonic is a TN so it's off the list.

Originally posted by: Septimus
A few googleseconds later, the VX2385 looks disqualified on account of being a poor quality TN. Why is something like the Westinghose 37" LVM-37w3 cheaper than a Dell 27" LCD?

Because of standard gamut, perhaps? Or maybe bigger pixel panels are easier to produce. I don't know to tell you the truth.

Originally posted by: BernardP
Thanks xtknight for the info about .icm profiles vs video players. Video is the only area where I was wondering if applying a profile might give even better results, but it looks like a pointless exercise.

If I understand correctly, calibrating a monitor with as much precision as possible is mostly useful in digital photography work.

I guess you're right but I like calibrating it even for desktop use. Forums are easier to read, etc. Sure it doesn't sound like much but when you browse forums the amount I do it starts being worthwhile. Of course, that time is quickly plummeting.

Originally posted by: asianvcl
I just got off the phone with an NEC rep 5 minutes ago. I called in concern to a newegg review (of the 20wmgx2) i had read on the monitor (damuman's post) about how the panel is now out of production and soon will be replaced by a TN panel version. This really irritated me because i have been meaning to save up to purchase this monitor, and was hopefully wishing NEC would build the same type of monitor with the same AS-IPS panel at a 22" and 24".

I asked the rep whether or not newer editions of this monitor were to be expected and he gave me the model numbers. They are: 22mgx for the 22" and 24wmcx for the 24". I asked if it had the same panel and he said he didn't know. I asked when they would be released and he said they can be expected in October, however the 24" wont have opticlear until March of 2008. He also said the 22" will have a price of about $380.00 with a m.i.r of around 20-30 dollars (i cant remember how much). He couldn't give me the price range of the 24" but confirmed it would have a m.i.r. of $30. I was a little curious about why the price for a 22" was cheaper than the 20" and he simply responded that its to "compete in the market". I'm not convinced that's the real reason. I really hope NEC doesn't make these monitors TN panel as damuman's review suggested. I guess if you're looking to get the 20wmgx2 now is the time because the rep confirmed that the monitor is out of production.

That's all the information i could haggle out of him (as it's clear he didn't know what the true panel on this monitor is, which just happens to be my biggest concern). Any other information from informed users would greatly be appreciated since I have been looking to upgrade my monitor the last few weeks.

The 22" will probably be a TN, and the 24" an S-PVA. These are reasonably certain estimations. I didn't even know the 24" had OptiClear (or that there would be a 24" with OptiClear) but that is nice to know.

The 20WMGX2 may be out of production, but what about the supposed NEC LCD20WGX2 Pro? Maybe this won't be available in the US anymore. That will be a sad day. We should call a day of mourning in this thread.

Originally posted by: Beh
I am one of the lucky few who seems to have picked up a Soyo 24" MVA with little to no issues. I must say I'm very pleased with this monitor considering its price.

I came to this monitor from a history of using only TN panels. I had heard of the other panels qualities but never had a chance to experience it firsthand. Now I don't think I can ever go back.

I any case I had a small question concerning the calibration. I had to eyeball everything since I lack proper calibration equipment. I wanted to set everything through the monitor's OSD so it could be shuttled around between different computers without much fuss.

I eventually settled on a user defined color setting of 38/38/38, contrast at 50, and brightness at 40. I checked the tests at lcdresource.com among other places and the colors in the images come out great but on the dark greyscale test I can make out all the stages down to RGB(3,3,3). Below that 2, 1, and 0 appear to be the same darkness.

That's not much to worry about for a $300 24" monitor. I would be really happy, especially considering that I hand-calibrated it.

Is this an acceptable result considering it's price and the fact that I had to calibrate it by eye? If I set anything higher the colors are washed out, besides, I don't get the feeling that any game is too dark. Except for maybe Doom 3. In a game like FarCry though, I can be crawling through dark oppressive tunnels then 1 minute later I'm blinded by the sunlight reflecting off the sand outside. That's to be expected, right?

Anyway, thanks for your time.

The contrast between dark black and being blinded is something I'd call "nice". The dynamic range of a monitor is a good sign of its quality. If you don't like that you always have options to turn the contrast down but I think that's valuable for providing realism.

Originally posted by: wizziwig

Originally posted by: Beh
I am one of the lucky few who seems to have picked up a Soyo 24" MVA with little to no issues. I must say I'm very pleased with this monitor considering its price.

I eventually settled on a user defined color setting of 38/38/38, contrast at 50, and brightness at 40. I checked the tests at lcdresource.com among other places and the colors in the images come out great but on the dark greyscale test I can make out all the stages down to RGB(3,3,3). Below that 2, 1, and 0 appear to be the same darkness.

Is this an acceptable result considering it's price and the fact that I had to calibrate it by eye? If I set anything higher the colors are washed out, besides, I don't get the feeling that any game is too dark. Except for maybe Doom 3. In a game like FarCry though, I can be crawling through dark oppressive tunnels then 1 minute later I'm blinded by the sunlight reflecting off the sand outside. That's to be expected, right?

Anyway, thanks for your time.

I found the same black level results as you on my Soyo. I think the problem is caused by the way this monitor does "brightness" adjustment. Instead of changing power to the backlight (as every other LCD I've used), it simply adjusts the RGB values up/down. This causes you to lose the RGB levels that are clipped off. I already posted this in the "Deals" forum.. so I'll just repeat it here:

"Has anyone with a meter measured the black level and white level of this monitor to determine real-world contrast? It seems very poor from what I've seen. The black is probably the worst I've seen on an LCD in recent history. Even with lights on in the room, anything with a black background just shows up as gray/purple instead of black.

I think the problem is that the backlight is set to a very high brightness with no way to adjust it lower. The brightness and contrast sliders do not effect the backlight (these controls just tweak the RGB values like the sliders in your video card's control panel). Lack of backlight control also makes this panel too bright when used in a dark environment.

Has anyone else compared this to their other LCD's blacks? I'm using the Dell 2001FP as reference. "

Most LCDs have a brightness control that primarily adjusts the crystals themselves, and the backlight just a little. Some monitors like some Sonys even have backlight, brightness, and contrast adjustment. NECs often have a "black level" setting where one ("brightness"?) controls backlight and one ("black level"?) controls the crystals. The contrast is often synonymous with R/G/B settings. Maybe these are switched around on the Soyo?

Originally posted by: DRavisher
I've a quick question about how a LCD screen draws its image. I'm simply wondering if a LCD screen refreshes its pixels in the same order as a CRT screen, starting at top left and working its way down to the bottom right (or is it top right to bottom left)? From what I can understand this is the way the image is sent from the graphics card, so wouldn't it be best to display it right away as recieved?

The DVI Article indicates that a full frame is sent each time with blanking between each line and frame.

Some of the first LCDs without overdrive probably just send an update per line while ones with overdrive send it per frame. That's my theory.

What I've been told is that the LCD will buffer the entire frame, and when everything is recieved it will refresh all the millions of pixels simultaneously, but wouldn't this introduce more input lag than is necessary (at 60 Hz I'd think the lag versus CRT would be somewhere between 1/60 s = 16.7 ms and 0 ms depending on which part of the screen we're looking at)?

If the entire thing were buffered the whole screen would be delayed by 16 ms. Some people report 0 ms input lag on their LCDs. I don't know which way it is done. It doesn't make sense to me to buffer stuff for no reason, so I am sure there is one.

If all the pixels are in fact refreshed simultaneously, any idea how long this process would take from start to finish? From my understanding of how a TFT matrix works, all the pixels can't possibly be updated at the same time, but perhaps it can be done so quickly that it doesn't really matter anyway.

Thanks for a wonderful thread xtknight

No idea here anyway but it's probably something negligible. All you have to do is send an electric current down each row and column of transistors.

I also don't know what happens when a crystal takes longer than 16.67ms (1/60 Hz) to transition (is it simply interrupted?) Seems like either it would cause sharp artifacts or cumulative lag. Maybe it is slow enough that the artifacts are not very noticeable. I'd love to know the answers to these questions, but I haven't had time to research them. There seems to be no simple Google answer or Wiki entry for these questions. It will probably involve reading patents, etc. If you do, let me know what you find out.

Originally posted by: BernardP
How much more does a 26-inch MVA cost over a 26-inch TN?

according to this DailyTech Article, the cost difference is between $20 and $40.

So now, every manufacturer is moving towards TN panels to save this relatively small amount. Of course, when everybody down the production chain has taken its markup on this $30, it ends up at a couple hundred $ in the final selling price.

This article also indicates that 26-inch might be next mainstream monitor size.

TNs and MVAs are quite similar in price from what the retail products I have seen. MVA displays cost about the same (Acer AL2051=only $200 and VP930b is pretty cheap these days).

Originally posted by: nytmarezz
Just out of curiosity.....

link --> http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824211009

Brand - DCLCD
Model - DCL24A
Display Screen Size - 24"
Resolution - 1920 x 1200
Viewing Angle - 160°(H) / 160°(V)
Response Time - 2ms

......is there a 2ms, 24" TN panel out? .....or is this just poor marketing? I thought the only 24" TN panel was rated at 5ms.

Good, but certainly inaccurate, marketing.

Originally posted by: Atreus21

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: TVisitor
Thanks xtknight - you are correct in your assessment - clearly, I am confused, but thanks for putting my question to rest. I appreciate it!

Have you heard anything about these monitors?

KDS K-24MDWB

DCLCD DCL24A Black 24" 2ms

Sorry, I don't know anything about those LCDs and I have never seen reviews of them. They both look like TNs to me (160/160 viewing angle) so I would avoid them for 24". The FP241WZ (8-bit MVA) is the best choice.

Why should TN panels be avoided for 24" displays? I've been looking at the DCLCD 24" model, and man, that beats the price for any 24" display I've seen so far.

Which has me sniffing for a catch.

The normal cons of a TN just make themselves more obvious on bigger displays. With the 8-bit, VA Soyo 24" going for $300 I don't see a reason to go any lower (or higher in your case?)

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: BernardP
How much more does a 26-inch MVA cost over a 26-inch TN?

according to this DailyTech Article, the cost difference is between $20 and $40.

So now, every manufacturer is moving towards TN panels to save this relatively small amount. Of course, when everybody down the production chain has taken its markup on this $30, it ends up at a couple hundred $ in the final selling price.

This article also indicates that 26-inch might be next mainstream monitor size.

TNs and MVAs are quite similar in price from what the retail products I have seen. MVA displays cost about the same (Acer AL2051=only $200 and VP930b is pretty cheap these days).

Mmmm...You've got a point in the 19-20 inch category. I was thinking more about larger screens, like 26 to 28 inches, where we are seeing TN's appear. The thing is, in the short term, MVA/PVA will have to remain price competitive with TN's, but then companies selling these better monitors will have to reduce their profit margin to stay in the game. So, in the medium term, they will probably also want to put larger TN monitors on the market to restore their margins. Then PVA/MVA could end up marginalized and higher-priced as S-IPS has become today.