[Retired] The LCD Thread

[dds14u]

Not sure if this goes here, but I recently got a 19" LG Widescreen (LG L196WTQ-BF). It's definitely good, but there is a little area on the bottom right that slightly brighter than the rest of the screen. Will this kind of thing go away? I know that I won't be able to call this monitor defective...just wondering if there's anything I can do.

 

[Upgr8er]

XTKNIGHT !! (or anyone, really) HELP !!

I started reading your wonderful and comprehensive review and fact sheet on LCD's. You should receive an award!!

At first (before reading this) I was going to get the Samsung 206BW (or 216bw or 226bw?) but then, after my education, a-la this thread, I felt I should get something better. However, now I'm going crazy trying to decide! I was set on the 20" NEC (except for the price) but I am having trouble finding one to see in person . . . .and it's pricy for my needs. I'm paying for multimedia features I'll never use too. The non MM version (that starts with L in the model number) is not available in the US or I would just buy that one.

So yesterday, during my weekly Sam's Club trip, I spotted the Viewsonic VX2035wm for $250 and it looked very nice. I didn't mind the viewing angle and I liked the glossy look. I use my computer about 50% for gaming and the rest for net surfing and other home use.

I'm really not that picky . . . I'm on stock MB sound (but with decent speakers) and I still have a no-name 19 inch CRT monitor.

So based on all of that - should I jump on the deal Fry's has for that Viewsonic? It's $180 or so (refurb). Or, is the NEC 20" really that much better? Or do we have some friends in Europe who can smuggle us some of the non-multimedia versions of the NEC? LOL!


Thanks for this thread and your response.

Glenn.


>>>> PS>>>>>

One more question . . . for comparitave purposes, what is the input lag for a CRT monitor?

 

[Jodiuh]

L245WP-BN
http://us.lge.com/products/mod...0above_L245WP-BN.jhtml

L246WP-BN
http://us.lge.com/products/mod...tified_L246WP-BN.jhtml

Newegg's got the 245 for $650 and there's plenty of reviews backing up the S-IPS claim @ that LG link. BB has the 246 for $500, but LG's site doesn't specifically mention the panel type. I may have to go down and take a look as a 24" S-IPS panel w/ height adjustment would be nice for that price.

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: Jodiuh
L245WP-BN
http://us.lge.com/products/mod...0above_L245WP-BN.jhtml

L246WP-BN
http://us.lge.com/products/mod...tified_L246WP-BN.jhtml

Newegg's got the 245 for $650 and there's plenty of reviews backing up the S-IPS claim @ that LG link. BB has the 246 for $500, but LG's site doesn't specifically mention the panel type. I may have to go down and take a look as a 24" S-IPS panel w/ height adjustment would be nice for that price.

The monitor might look better if you think it is S-IPS but is has in fact a P-MVA panel, same as the L246. Yes, there is an error on LG's USA web site. LG Canada web site has the correct info:

At the bottom of Specifications tab: MVA

Prad.de link

 

[BernardP]

Another question about .icm color profiles for xtknight.

According to TFT central, .icm color profiles can be directly installed in Windows XP using the following procedure, without need to install the Microsoft color app. (I lost that link). Here is the procedure:

1. Place the ICM file into: My Computer > C: > Windows > system32 > spool > drivers > color

2. Access Display Properties within Control Panel > Settings > Advanced > Color Management > Add > Select ICM color profile.

3. Restart your PC

What do you think of this? I have looked in the "color " folder and there are already a few .icm profiles in there, such as Kodak and sRGB.

If the profile can be installed directly in Windows, what then is the use of the Microsoft color app?

Edit: OK, Just found this:

http://www.microsoft.com/windo...hoto/colorcontrol.mspx

So the applet is not really necessary and simply creates a new Contol panel interface? Then I could try .icm profiles without installing the applet?

Thanks

 

[Jodiuh]

Ugh...I guess I should thank you. 1680's a tough enough res to push and w/ Crysis right around the corner, I'm not looking to tack on another $500 GPU.

 

[hypeMarked]

How about the BenQ FP222WH? Here's the newegg link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824014139

Anyone has a chance to play around with it yet?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: gravety

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: gravety
Well on Overclockers.co.uk the diff is £60 inc VAT! but on OYYY.co.uk you can save £29 on the BenQ (£499.00 inc) and std delivery is free.

At any rate I wasn't that worried about the diff in price, like you, quality counts.

My only niggle with the BenQ is the Silver Bezel... but hey it looks the best option.

Guess that's subjective too. I love the look of that BenQ.

Guess so! It might look fine - just I have an all black Silverstone case... Try it and see I guess.

OOI what is your next planned LCD upgrade?

Maybe Samsung 275T, Planar PX2611W, or Dell 3007WFP-HC but I'm taking a "wait and see" approach. I don't like it that the 30" LCDs don't have many controls, and the 275T's CMY color controls could potentially make calibration painful (or they might be helpful, I don't know).

Originally posted by: noptov52
Hi, I'm looking to replace my CRT (a 19" Viewsonic 95f+) with a LCD, but I'm not sure if there is a suitable monitor within my budget: $200 + s/h. My primary concern is the ability to game effectively as I play a lot of FPS, as well as a variety of other games. I don't usually play the most 'twitchy' games (ie Quake or UT), but I've spent a lot of time playing the Call of Duty and Battlefield series (and CS, Red Orchestra, etc). Decent image quality would be a boon, since at some point I hope to get a tv tuner for my PC to use while I'm at college.

Is the 90GX2 the monitor I should go for (it is slightly above my price range) or are there other viable alternatives? I'm a bit worried about its high gloss screen as it will get a lot of light from different angles, currently my CRT gets a lot of glare.

If your CRT gets a lot of glare than maybe the 90GX2 isn't the best option. Consider the LG L1970HR or L1953TX too. The L1953TX is actually a new version so the L1970HR is the safest bet. I assume the L1953TX is just a successor to my recommended L1952TX with minor additions.

Originally posted by: chubdeuce
Was looking at the BenQ FP241WZ as it looks to be highly recommended in here, but came across some bad reviews at NCIX.com. Apparently users have reported random blackouts and major flickering on the LCD.

Did they just get unlucky?

I heard of the blackouts on the FP241W too. Probably rather isolated.

The flickering is due to the BFI technology the Z has. Not everyone notices it and it can be turned off. For those who don't notice it, they can enjoy improved response time performance.

Originally posted by: konakona
I am still very much interested glossy screens.

do these work? I am referring to the "Glossy and Non Glare Reversible Type" in particular. Whatever akin to this or other stick-on types if anyone happens to know about them.

No, these are protectors to put over your monitor. You already have an anti-glare coating and you can't replace it without major surgery.

 

[imported_mackintire]

Dell engineering found the problem in the newer 2407fpw-wc monitor.

Chris admitted it on the dell forum.

It will be a few weeks before the new rev is released.

But you can almost bet, IT will come.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Aversion
Thanks again to xtKnight, BernardP and everyone who has contributed to this thread, it's a wonderful resource.

I recently bought an LG 226WTX-BF and a BenQ FP241WZ, both of which I'm really happy with and thanks to the info here I made an informed choice about. I was pretty set on getting the Dell 2407 HC but I was getting carried away with its expanded gamut for my photography hobby and not thinking about what I really needed, which was an accurate 72% monitor for my work. The BenQ is a really solid piece of hardware and a great performer. I'd also recommend the LG, especially for anyone doing a lot of reading on the web. Personally I can't see any difference between it and the more expensive Samsung 22".

Cheers.

Great to hear the BenQ worked out for you.

Originally posted by: Machinus
How good is the Samsung SM-245T?

The 245T is a wide gamut display and there's a review here: http://www.behardware.com/arti...03ws-samsung-245t.html

As usual I don't recommend brand new monitors without more research/info on user experiences/etc. Or, perhaps I don't get around to reading what's out there yet. It would be nice to have X-Bit or THG test it.

Originally posted by: idoc
I finally decided to get an HP W2207 yesterday because of the features it has over the 22" LG and Samsung, and also because of the panel lottery issue with Samsung. All of the units on display were manufactured in April 2007 and had LM220WE1 panels (LG/Philips?). When I asked the salesperson to bring out boxed units, there were also a couple manufactured in July 2007. I thought these must be better because they're newer, and any problems with previous releases must have been addressed with more recent releases, right? Checked out the July 2007 unit, it had LTM220M1-L01 Panel Version STMD1.2. Isn't this the "desired" Samsung panel, same one in the 226BW "S" units?

Looks like it to me. You won the lottery. Here's more info (incl. spec PDF) on the panel you have: http://www.displaytechnology.c...lays/LTM220M1-L01.html

I always like these panel specs because they're more accurate than what the monitor manufacturers give you.

The unit was ok, no dead pixels and I couldn't appreciate any backlight bleed in the store (I even asked them to turn off ceiling lights). But when I got home, I found out that it had some bleeding along the vertical sides, almost none on top or bottom. I think I can live with it but I couldn't help wonder if I had gotten the April 2007 unit with the Philips panel, would the backlight bleed have been less? Or more? Guess I just want to make myself feel better, or worse, depending on what other users know about the comparison of the 2 panels.

Keep what you got. You've got a good panel already, no doubt. The Samsung panel is better than the Philips panel in color depth.

I might try to find a way to have it exchanged if the Philips is really superior. It's just that I have no basis for comparison so I'm relying on input from others. Comments pls.

Also, I'd like to ask how scaling is usually managed with this monitor. I'm using an X1800XT and choosing "Centered Timings" in ATI CCC doesn't do anything, but Prey scales well (with black bars at sides when playing at 1280x1024) when I choose "Fit to Aspect Ratio" in the monitor OSD.

Questions:
1: Do I still need to select "Centered Timings" in CCC aside from the OSD, or just the OSD setting?
2: Will I need to do this only whenever I play a game at non-native resolution, or can I leave it at this setting for all types of usage?

Thanks in Advance for replies

I don't completely understand your questions, but hopefully the way I describe it will answer them.

With video card scaling, the video card is always outputting the native resolution of your LCD, 1680x1050 in this case. Choose centered@1280x1024 and it will output 1680x1050 with a 1280x1024 square of a picture inside.

There should be a monitor scaling option that allows the video card to truly output only 1280x1024, for instance. Now with ATI drivers I have heard that "centered" doesn't work the way it should, so maybe this is ATI's equivalent to "monitor scaling". NVIDIA's options are much more clear.

You do it for all types of usage for which you want a particular mode. In other words, there is nothing special about games over browsing the web.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mackintire
Dell engineering found the problem in the newer 2407fpw-wc monitor.

Chris admitted it on the dell forum.

It will be a few weeks before the new rev is released.

But you can almost bet, IT will come.

Thanks for the news. I'm glad I will be able to put the 2407WFP-HC up for Multimedia in the future (hopefully). That'll open up an option for me personally too. I assume they are talking about the ghosting problem, the only regression from the 2407WFP A04 that I'm aware of.

More info for those interested: Dell Community Forum - 2407WFP-HC

Originally posted by: Big White
The monitor lcd Hanns-G HG-281DPB 28", has excellent recommendations. Somebody possesss to tell it its experience? (Perhaps Video/Photo?)

1080P
3ms
500 cd/m2
800:01:00
Active Matrix, TFT LCD
WUXGA
D-Sub
HDMI w/HDCP
VISTA: Certified for
Warranty: 3 Years Limited Parts/Labor
Power Consumption: 65W Maximum
USD 680,00

Reviews 95%: :thumbsup: Excellent and Good

No experience with this LCD, not much info on it either but I wouldn't take Newegg reviews as gospel. It is a TN panel after all, which is not such a good choice for photo editing. Look towards the monitors recommended in the OP.

Originally posted by: dds14u
Not sure if this goes here, but I recently got a 19" LG Widescreen (LG L196WTQ-BF). It's definitely good, but there is a little area on the bottom right that slightly brighter than the rest of the screen. Will this kind of thing go away? I know that I won't be able to call this monitor defective...just wondering if there's anything I can do.

Turning down the brightness may help a little but if you've had the monitor for a month and it's still happening, it probably won't go away. The reason I say a month (or sometimes, a week) is because some panels have pressure on them which causes the backlight bleeding in the beginning.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Upgr8er
XTKNIGHT !! (or anyone, really) HELP !!

I started reading your wonderful and comprehensive review and fact sheet on LCD's. You should receive an award!!

At first (before reading this) I was going to get the Samsung 206BW (or 216bw or 226bw?) but then, after my education, a-la this thread, I felt I should get something better. However, now I'm going crazy trying to decide! I was set on the 20" NEC (except for the price) but I am having trouble finding one to see in person . . . .and it's pricy for my needs. I'm paying for multimedia features I'll never use too. The non MM version (that starts with L in the model number) is not available in the US or I would just buy that one.

So yesterday, during my weekly Sam's Club trip, I spotted the Viewsonic VX2035wm for $250 and it looked very nice. I didn't mind the viewing angle and I liked the glossy look. I use my computer about 50% for gaming and the rest for net surfing and other home use.

I'm really not that picky . . . I'm on stock MB sound (but with decent speakers) and I still have a no-name 19 inch CRT monitor.

So based on all of that - should I jump on the deal Fry's has for that Viewsonic? It's $180 or so (refurb). Or, is the NEC 20" really that much better? Or do we have some friends in Europe who can smuggle us some of the non-multimedia versions of the NEC? LOL!


Thanks for this thread and your response.

Glenn.

Glad to hear the thread was helpful.

I don't know that the NEC is worth that much more to you (maybe it isn't). I would say, give a Samsung 2x6BW a chance, x being whatever size you want (20.1", 21.6", 22.0"). You have a better chance of getting a better panel than what the VX2035 has (always AUO). Samsung LCDs can use AUO too, but they might make some tweaks to the AUO panels by now to help hide differences so they may not be as bad as they used to be. I'd doubt if ViewSonic does the same thing. All the ViewSonics I've seen have had a pale look to them by default.

>>>> PS>>>>>

One more question . . . for comparitave purposes, what is the input lag for a CRT monitor?

For all intents and purposes, zero milliseconds since they are the reference point.

Other questions you may ask may be what is the delay between the video card sending the complete frame on the video pins, and when that frame is displayed. I don't know the answer, but it's probably something like (speed of light) + (whatever time it takes for the electron gun to scan the whole screen). Not much time, that's for sure.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BernardP
Another question about .icm color profiles for xtknight.

According to TFT central, .icm color profiles can be directly installed in Windows XP using the following procedure, without need to install the Microsoft color app. (I lost that link). Here is the procedure:

1. Place the ICM file into: My Computer > C: > Windows > system32 > spool > drivers > color

2. Access Display Properties within Control Panel > Settings > Advanced > Color Management > Add > Select ICM color profile.

3. Restart your PC

What do you think of this? I have looked in the "color " folder and there are already a few .icm profiles in there, such as Kodak and sRGB.

If the profile can be installed directly in Windows, what then is the use of the Microsoft color app?

Edit: OK, Just found this:

http://www.microsoft.com/windo...hoto/colorcontrol.mspx

So the applet is not really necessary and simply creates a new Contol panel interface? Then I could try .icm profiles without installing the applet?

Thanks

Using Windows's ICM color profile interface thru it's built-in facilities never yielded results for me. But I never tried rebooting, so I don't know if it works or not. I'm sticking with my tried-and-true xcalib program because I can always trust that it works.

It shouldn't be something you have to dwell over. Set xcalib to the filename of your ICM, add a shortcut of it to startup apps in Start Menu, and call it a day.

No idea what Kodak and sRGB do, I've tried them but they did nothing. They probably just tell Photoshop/etc what space you're using, but I don't think they contain a gamma table. In any case I didn't try rebooting after applying them so I don't know for sure.

Originally posted by: hypeMarked
How about the BenQ FP222WH? Here's the newegg link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824014139

Anyone has a chance to play around with it yet?

I don't see anything that sticks out about this LCD so I say stick with the tried-and-true 22" LCDs in the OP.

 

[imported_xyz]

Hi xtknight (or any other expert),

1st of all, great (looooong ) thread.

I have been looking to buy new LCD for a couple months now, but i haven't really found the one to pull the trigger on. Usage wise, I would say Multimedia is probably what describe me the best. Budget wise around 300. I don't have access to a calibration device.

I was 1st looking at the Samsung 225bw / 226bw, but after the whole panel lottery I kind of want to steer clear. Same with the Dell 2007wfp and HP LP2065 (a lil over my budget too). After stumbling upon this thread and slacking off the whole day at work reading it, I was sure that the Acer al2051w is the one -- until i find out that you can't get it anywhere anymore (discontinued).

So my question is what is the next in line? the LG L20xtw series even though it is a TN panel? If so, is the 206twy better than the 204tw? A while back (june, july?) you mentioned until proven otherwise, l204tw is still the one to get. Have your opinion changed? If not, what other do you recommend? Should I just plunge another $100 and get the NEC that everyone raves about? Or is there a sure thing coming out soon (Acer al2052w)? I am not really in a hurry as this is going to be my 3rd monitor for my 3 monitor setup, but I kind of want to get it done with.

Thanks in advance.

- XYZ

P.S. I tried to look for it in the placed mentioned in this tread but I did not find a calibrated profile for a samsung 204bw. Does anyone know where off the top of their heads where I might be able to find one?

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Using Windows's ICM color profile interface thru it's built-in facilities never yielded results for me. But I never tried rebooting, so I don't know if it works or not. I'm sticking with my tried-and-true xcalib program because I can always trust that it works.

It shouldn't be something you have to dwell over. Set xcalib to the filename of your ICM, add a shortcut of it to startup apps in Start Menu, and call it a day.

No idea what Kodak and sRGB do, I've tried them but they did nothing. They probably just tell Photoshop/etc what space you're using, but I don't think they contain a gamma table. In any case I didn't try rebooting after applying them so I don't know for sure.

Have I been dreaming? First time I see you mention xcalib :Q I Found its web site.

BTW, I have continued tweaking my 2407WFP-HC through the OSD, and it's looking even better with Brightess: 40, Contrast 50, and R, G, B each at 82.

As for the ghosting, there is still no ghosting at all when the monitor has been on for only a short time. However, now knowing exactly what to look for, I can see a short darker trail behind the mouse cursor on a dark background when the monitor has been on for a couple of hours. Still nothing like what is shown in the Google video, and not disturbing enough to return it, considering that other parameters are perfect (no dead pixel, no backlight bleed, no uneven lighting, no crooked panel).

 

[ivanchin99]

First of all, great guide Xtknight!

I wanted to ask a question after going through the whole thread.. I read somewhere possibly from you that Samsung 226BW S Panel is better than LG 226WTQ?

IS my list below holds any truth?

From Best to Worst:
Samsung 226 BW S Panel
LG L226WTQ
Samsung 226 BW A Panel
Samsung 226 BW C Panel

 

[imaheadcase]

Yah I don't notice any ghosting still on my 2407WFP-HC since i got it. I installed Quake Wars beta played about 6 hours of it and did not notice any, if I don't notice it in RTS/FPS/MMORPG thats always good

It does make me wonder if some of this ghosting people are seeing are other factors on there computers. Video card drivers, mouse drivers from logitech are known culprits for mouse trails and pictures to appear ghosting.

Any clue as to why I got my monitor from Singapore while everyone else is getting them from China or Mexico in the US?

 

[BernardP]

Originally posted by: imaheadcase
Yah I don't notice any ghosting still on my 2407WFP-HC since i got it. I installed Quake Wars beta played about 6 hours of it and did not notice any, if I don't notice it in RTS/FPS/MMORPG thats always good

It does make me wonder if some of this ghosting people are seeing are other factors on there computers. Video card drivers, mouse drivers from logitech are known culprits for mouse trails and pictures to appear ghosting.

Any clue as to why I got my monitor from Singapore while everyone else is getting them from China or Mexico in the US?

The ghosting is definitely monitor-related. Even Dell has now recognized this in the Dell Forums. TFTCentral has a good article on this. Not to say that factors you mention can't play a role is some cases.

So your monitor was made in Singapore? Where do you live? If you say Australia, I would not be surprised. If you say USA, maybe the Mexico production was not running yet when you got your monitor. It would seem logical for Dell to make the monitor nearer to the selling market when it is possible. I think you were one of the first to get a 2407WFP-HC. What is the manufacturing date on yours?

It confirms my impression that the ghosting is not systemic, but is something that has appeared after the monitor was in production for some time. None of the early reviews mentionned this problem. Then suddently (August) it appeared.

 

[imaheadcase]

Live in the US, ordered it the first month it was released. Maybe they just got a bulk supply in the US from Singapore first or something that was fine.

 

[hypeMarked]

Originally posted by: xtknight

....

Originally posted by: hypeMarked
How about the BenQ FP222WH? Here's the newegg link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824014139

Anyone has a chance to play around with it yet?

I don't see anything that sticks out about this LCD so I say stick with the tried-and-true 22" LCDs in the OP.

I thought the HDMI input is pretty nice and it has all the features of the other 22" that is on the OP recommended list.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: hypeMarked

Originally posted by: xtknight

....

Originally posted by: hypeMarked
How about the BenQ FP222WH? Here's the newegg link:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824014139

Anyone has a chance to play around with it yet?

I don't see anything that sticks out about this LCD so I say stick with the tried-and-true 22" LCDs in the OP.

I thought the HDMI input is pretty nice and it has all the features of the other 22" that is on the OP recommended list.

Oh, didn't see it in the specs but it does have HDMI + DVI-D + VGA.

The BenQ most likely has a AUO panel. I wouldn't expect L226WT/HP w2207 performance, but that's just a guess. I haven't seen any reviews of it. There's not a whole lot of difference in 22" panels besides response time. If you have a calibrator you can make most of them look the same.

 

[gravety]

Well got my BenQ FP241WZ today - it's a seriously nice monitor

One question I have is there seems to be a light border about 6mm wide on the edges and a bit thinner on the top / bottom - is this usual?

 

[SuperUnknown42o]

I'm looking for a good 20" 4:3 monitor. I'll be using it for general web browsing, gaming, and maybe the occasional movie. I was thinking about getting the Dell 2007fp. I'm coming from a good CRT so color and response are pretty important. Any recommendations?

 

[eeric]

Hi, this is a pretty off topic, but does anyone know the maximum resolution (or bandwidth) supported by a VGA connection, or where I could find out? When I search google I keep getting junk about the VGA resolution spec and not the connector spec. Whoever answers will be my hero forever...... really appreciated. Thx in advance.

 

[DarkNovaNick]

I'm looking for a new LCD to do photo editing work and am having a hard time finding something that sounds good in my price range. I'd like at least a 19" and have probably around $280 to spend. In the recommended LCDs in the first post the Samsung 971P is listed (for $300) which I could probably stretch my budget to buy if I was convinced it would be an amazing display, but I'm somewhat concerned about the reviews and that it might be really annoying for simple motion things like dragging windows around. I've also been looking seriously at the Samsung 226BW which fits my budget and is generally reviewed well. I am aware of the panel lottery but from what I've read it sounds like even the non S panels have been doing OK after they have been calibrated (I have a Spider2 calibrator). My main concern is that it has a TN panel which has a poor viewing angle and more extreme color shifts at angles. I will always aim to use the display head-on, but I'm concerned that I may accidentally edit a picture while viewing at a slight angle (slouching on chair or something) and then the colors will be off. Am I overthinking this? I just want a display that has great color, after calibration -- that's my main concern. 22" is nice but even a 19" would be great. Can anyone recommend a panel (or a few) that I should be looking at? Thanks.