[Retired] The LCD Thread

[mahendra083]

so i'm looking for a 20" to 22" LCD for under $ 300

i've narrowed in on the samsung 226BW n the samsung 206BW

but recently i've spotted a 2232BW n 2032BW on the samsung site they carry the same specifications as the 226 & 206BW n r slightly better looking

i havent found too many reviews for the 2232BW n 2032BW so i was wondering how these two stack up against the 226BW n the 206BW n do they use the same panels in the 2232BW n 2032BW

i almost bought the LG L206WTQ until i read about a bunch of ppl having a hard time with the Q range due to ghosting n halos n something to do with RTC (response time compensation)...

anyways i'll be using this LCD for a lot of gaming n entertainment purposes n i'm open to any alternate suggestions as well

by the way i'm from india so a $300 LCD ends up costling me abt $375 to $400 due to the high taxes here, so dont suggest any LCD for over $300

 

[Timeetyo]

xtknight:

I am looking to upgrade from a CRT, and am looking for some advice. I am mostly concerned about gaming (FPS), although I do watch some movies as well. After doing some brief research, it looks like you recommend the 226BW, but I am nervous about the 'panel lottery' as you put it. Here are the ones that I'm considering:

1. 226BW: Looks like if I get an 'S' panel it is the best bet overall. A few questions here...what is the likelyhood of getting one of the 'S' panels nowadays? Also, if I did get the A panel, how would you rate it compared to the panels below?

2. The VX2255wmb: Looking at this as it looks like the next best choice for me...atleast I'd know what i was getting.

3. The VX2240w: This one is new I believe, and it looks like it has some solid stats if you believe what they print about it. Any idea how this one stacks up?

Now, with that said, I really don't know anything about response time, input, etc. I am just looking for the monitor that will play the best for my games. What do ya think?

Thanks

Tim

 

[migreen]

xtknight and others:

I am looking for an LCD. Primary use photo-editing; secondary general. Gaming not important. 22 inches (or 20-24) about right. From reading the first post, seem like wide-gamut and non-TN would be most important. I'm trying out a Black Friday Acer, and, not surprisingly, it doesn't distinguish well between the dark gray/black tones.

Of your recommendations for this category, the less expensive are not longer available. The Samsung 226CW (noted by you on your website) would seem to be an option, but not widely reviewed. Any thoughts about this or others under $500?

More generally, is wide-gamut or VA more important? Is one useful without the other for my purposes?

Thanks!

 

[maxmmv]

Hi

Any chance of adding the Dell UltraSharp 2208WFP to the OP lists? It'd be interesting to see how its TN panel fares compared to Samsung's, etc.

Thx!

 

[mbevier]

I've been looking at the 24" LCD market for the past few weeks and have really ran into a tough spot. I thought I had my decision complete till recently when I discovered some issues with the model I was close to purchasing.

The uses for this monitor would be for gaming, as well as multi-media. Therefore, response time and input lag share importance with viewing angles for me. The model I had decided on was the Dell 2407WFP-HC. Originally I had wanted to go with an S-IPS panel, however.

The Dell had many things I was looking for, but beyond all those things, I found it to have a more attractive presentation than most others. The similiar Samgung panel (245T) was a bit boxy and the stand wasn't as pleasing, though it is still currently my second choice. The issue that has stopped me from considering the dell, however, was a ghosting issue caused by the overdrive on the panel. This issue is described as "Overdrive Ghosting" here:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ar...es/dell_2407wfp-hc.htm

Do you have any advice for a 24" panel that is a solid performer for gaming as well as multi-media? I am not interested in a TN panel due to the viewing angles. Also, I will be using this for rather fast action, FPS gaming, so it would have to remain competitive there as well. Perhaps an ideal scenario would be an S-IPS 24" panel, but they do not seem common, and even then much more expensive. My biggest concern is ending up with an issue like the overdrive ghosting listed above...or an LCD that has a response time + input lag large enough that it is noticable.

The price point I am at is about $700, in the US.

Do you have any suggestions for me?

 

[DoctorM]

I guess my next question is along the line of Relinez33.
I'm aware most wide displays bigger than 20" for gaming tend to be TN panels, but is there anything comparable to the 20WMGX2 any larger?

Is it a necessary trade off for the 20WMGX2's quality? It just feels weird upgrading in size but gaining nothing in height.

 

[alexthebored]

Went into Futureshop yesterday to check out some monitors.

Firstly, the 226BW was very nice. I liked the overall look of it; the colors seemed nice, and the picture was very crisp. I wasn't able to do anything too serious on it however (like play a FPS), so I can't really say how it runs there. Furthermore, I tried the hidden service menu on two models, but I can't really remember specifically which ones they were. Both had "AM" or "MA" somewhere; memory is a bit foggy. However I don't remember seeing anything "AU" or "CMO," so perhaps I was looking at an S monitor?

Wasn't a huge fan of the Samsung 223BW. They had one on display, however it wasn't directly hooked up, and instead was playing the same video on a terrible resolution as several other monitors linked up. Even then however, I found the casing to be too glossy, to the point of being irritating.

The Samsung 245B wasn't hooked up independently either, which is a shame. I would have liked to see it running at its native resolution, as it appeared to be quite a nice monitor. As well it was a bit more pricy than I expected ($499CAD).

I was able to try both the LG 227WTQ and WTY, and while they were nice, I wasn't as sold on them as I was on the 226BW. Oddly enough, despite being at the same resolution as the Samsung (1680X1050), it looked like it was at a lower resolution; the same desktop menu on the LG was larger and less defined than on the Samsung. One of them (either the WTQ or the WTY) was the same price as the 226BW, while the other one was a good $40 cheaper than both the samsung and the other LG.


So overall, I was quite impressed with the 226BW. However, the fact that it's not true 1080P is a killer for me, as I'm looking at using this monitor for my PS3 as well. At the moment, the Samsung 245B and the Dell E248WFP are the only 24IN monitors out right now that seem to be both reasonably priced and decent for multimedia. I might end up just waiting for more options.

 

[redlinez33]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I guess my next question is along the line of Relinez33.
I'm aware most wide displays bigger than 20" for gaming tend to be TN panels, but is there anything comparable to the 20WMGX2 any larger?

Is it a necessary trade off for the 20WMGX2's quality? It just feels weird upgrading in size but gaining nothing in height.

Actually with the 20" WS monitor I am pretty sure I will loose height compared to my 19" right now.... Going with a 22" i think I wills till loose height, but it wont be so severe.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
Wow, just took a look at New Egg's price on the NEC 20WMGX2.
Amazing. A year ago they wouldn't let you read the specs off the box for that price.

Anyone know if Costco carries these (not that I can imagine them touching New Egg's current price).

Speaking of, anyone know New Eggs policy for returns, dead pixels, etc?


Edit:
I find it interesting that as well regarded as the 215tw is on other sites, you don't recommend it in any category in the first post.

Indeed the NEC has fallen drastically over a year.

The 215TW only recently came back into stock (after a long recession) but thanks for reminding me. It will be recommended for several categories. I have been personally recommending it to several people here as an alternative to the NEC in some cases.

Newegg's policy was actually kind of hard to find: http://www.newegg.com/Info/ReturnPolicy.aspx

LCD Display Return Policy

• Return for refund within: non-refundable
• Return for replacement within: 30 days
• There must be a minimum of 8 dead pixels to declare an LCD display defective and eligible for return.

Newegg.com sells many products such as Notebooks and Monitors that feature LCD (Liquid Crystal Display) screens. Newegg.com adheres to the dead-pixel policy that is observed by the majority of our manufacturers. In order to declare any product with an LCD screen "defective" and eligible for replacement or refund through any applicable Newegg.com Return Policy, there must be a minimum of 8 (eight) dead LCD pixels.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Well I am about 99% sure I will be getting the NEC, but I was wondering is there any 22" monitors that are even worth looking at for gaming? I know all (i believe) 22" monitors are TN, and I know they are 6bit, but after looking at a 22" next to a 20" the size does really show. Viewing angles arent important to me, but colors, black levels, and response time are. So are there any 22" monitors that would be considered good (close to the NEC overall)???

Thanks for all your help so far!

I don't believe many 22"s are close to the NEC on all fronts. None can touch it when it comes to viewing angles, color temperature(white), dark details, or even uniformity.

But I guess to the untrained eye the LG L226WT might look just as good... that's just my best guess. I'm sure if you had any idea what to look for though, you'd notice the NEC is still better in several ways, particularly in revealing detail and showing an image in a stable fashion (viewing angle).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mahendra083
so i'm looking for a 20" to 22" LCD for under $ 300

i've narrowed in on the samsung 226BW n the samsung 206BW

but recently i've spotted a 2232BW n 2032BW on the samsung site they carry the same specifications as the 226 & 206BW n r slightly better looking

i havent found too many reviews for the 2232BW n 2032BW so i was wondering how these two stack up against the 226BW n the 206BW n do they use the same panels in the 2232BW n 2032BW

The 206BW/226BW use multiple panels.

I don't know if the case is the same with the 2032BW and 2232BW; they are very new models, and it is probably too soon to tell. The reason Samsung had to outsource their panel manufacture was because demand for the 206BW/226BW models was through the roof (rightfully so, they were decent LCDs at least with the 'S' panel). If demand for the 2032/2232 rises dramatically, then they may well outsource again in the future.

i almost bought the LG L206WTQ until i read about a bunch of ppl having a hard time with the Q range due to ghosting n halos n something to do with RTC (response time compensation)...

This is why the L206WT isn't in my OP list right now. At least until X-Bit Labs reviews it and proves otherwise, I'm not recommending a series with a history of complaints and problems. L226WTQ problems seem to have come back for some people as well, even, with later firmwares. I still recommend the 2407WFP-HC since I don't think the problem is as bad but it's hard to know when you haven't used it...I sometimes change my mind a lot when it comes to which LCDs to recommend.

anyways i'll be using this LCD for a lot of gaming n entertainment purposes n i'm open to any alternate suggestions as well

by the way i'm from india so a $300 LCD ends up costling me abt $375 to $400 due to the high taxes here, so dont suggest any LCD for over $300

Well I would suggest the ViewSonic VX2255wmb (22" TN), HP w2007 (glossy), and L2045w (matte). I hope those are available in India.

There is also the LG L204WT, which I don't even think uses response time compensation but it's still pretty fast as it's a TN panel.

I don't know how much any of these cost in India either. The HP LP1965 (19" P-MVA) may be a more economical option. The LG L1970HR is sort of a last resort choice, I guess. It's OK (19" TN).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: maxmmv
Hi

Any chance of adding the Dell UltraSharp 2208WFP to the OP lists? It'd be interesting to see how its TN panel fares compared to Samsung's, etc.

Thx!

I won't be putting it on the list unless it receives good reviews from X-Bit, BeHardware, or Tom's Hardware. And unfortunately I don't really know how it compares to the Samsungs. But, Dell's TN models tend to have poor color adjustment and slow response time, at least their E series. The E228WFP didn't turn out so well so I doubt the 2208WFP will either.

Until then, stick to tried and true models like the ViewSonic VX2255wmb and HP w2207. Or even the Samsung 226BW if you can buy it at a brick/mortar store and return it if needed (panel lottery). Personally I don't really condone returning it and wasting people's time. You are wasting the store's time, not Samsung's. The VX2255wmb and w2207 are fine choices for 22" panels too. The LG L226WTQ can be a good choice if you don't run into ghosting problems.

(Beginning to think the idea of putting panel-lottery LCDs in the OP is biting me in the ass again...) I will probably replace the 226BW with the LG L226WTQ. The Q has issues but hardly worse than the 226BW's alternate panels and supposedly solved in most instances.

HP and Dell used different panels but at least the alternatives didn't have huge, glaring problems (not due to panel tech but just sheer negligence and carelessness).

And I don't really know what's going to happen to the 206BW. The lottery is active as ever with that LCD as well. Unfortunately, cheap 20" TNs with good response time and decent colors are difficult to find.

 

[redlinez33]

wish there was a local store that I could see the NEC in action before purchasing. It also seems soon as I purchase from newegg I am stuck with the monitor no matter what (unless it is defective, but then I just get another one in replacement).....

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
wish there was a local store that I could see the NEC in action before purchasing. It also seems soon as I purchase from newegg I am stuck with the monitor no matter what (unless it is defective, but then I just get another one in replacement).....

It looks like you're right. I thought you could pay a 15% restocking fee and send it back but that doesn't seem to be the case with monitors. Hmm that seems odd to me. I would check with a Newegg rep to make sure.

If you're lucky you can probably get NEC reps to send you a replacement/refurb even without having 8 dead pixels... (or maybe because you have worse-than-usual backlight bleeding or whatever else)

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Timeetyo
xtknight:

I am looking to upgrade from a CRT, and am looking for some advice. I am mostly concerned about gaming (FPS), although I do watch some movies as well. After doing some brief research, it looks like you recommend the 226BW, but I am nervous about the 'panel lottery' as you put it. Here are the ones that I'm considering:

1. 226BW: Looks like if I get an 'S' panel it is the best bet overall. A few questions here...what is the likelyhood of getting one of the 'S' panels nowadays? Also, if I did get the A panel, how would you rate it compared to the panels below?

The S panel almost seems rare. Everyone is getting As and Cs... even Chunghwas. Problems range from blue color tint to overdrive ghosting...

2. The VX2255wmb: Looking at this as it looks like the next best choice for me...atleast I'd know what i was getting.

Indeed, this is a good choice.

3. The VX2240w: This one is new I believe, and it looks like it has some solid stats if you believe what they print about it. Any idea how this one stacks up?

Unfortunately I don't know. It can't be that much better than the VX2255wmb, it really can't. ViewSonic only uses CMO or AUO panels pretty much.

Now, with that said, I really don't know anything about response time, input, etc. I am just looking for the monitor that will play the best for my games. What do ya think?

Thanks

Tim

The VX2255wmb is the most solid choice for a 22" monitor right now. The LG L226WTQ is another good alternative, as is the HP w2207 (glossy though). The LG may have a little more input lag but I have yet to receive evidence that input lags around 32 ms affect people. I find that hard to believe. Both the monitors I have have 32 ms of input lag a lot of the time (checked by camera) but I certainly don't notice anything. Maybe around 4 frames or higher, but 2 frames (32 ms) is pretty low.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
I guess my next question is along the line of Relinez33.
I'm aware most wide displays bigger than 20" for gaming tend to be TN panels, but is there anything comparable to the 20WMGX2 any larger?

Only in the 30" form factor do you find competitors to the 20WMGX2...

Dell 3007WFP-HC, HP LP3065, and Apple Cinema Display 30". Other than that, not really. Unless you mean the really expensive S-IPS NEC LCD2490WUXi (24.1") and NEC LCD2690WUXi (25.5").

If you receive an S-IPS panel in the HP LP2065 or Dell 2007FP, you have something halfway comparable in a standard aspect. The 20WMGX2's panel is really an AS-IPS with enhanced brightness though. The S-IPS panels in the std 20" monitors aren't quite as spectacular, but the 30" panels are probably brighter and more vibrant.

Is it a necessary trade off for the 20WMGX2's quality? It just feels weird upgrading in size but gaining nothing in height.

I upgraded from a 19" std. (ViewSonic VP930b) to a 20.1" wide (NEC 20WMGX2) and I was still very impressed. I had a little more space and great color quality. I was definitely happy with this upgrade. You do get a good amount of extra width and the widescreen aspect is nice for movies.

 

[DoctorM]

New Egg requires 8 dead pixels to replace? That sucks. Anyone have problems dealing with them?

 

[redlinez33]

I wonder what policy NEC has.

 

[siik]

this dell community link has some useful information regarding the new UltraSharp 2208WFP from Dell
http://www.dellcommunity.com/s...onitor&thread.id=84830

and also this one
http://www.dellcommunity.com/s...onitor&thread.id=84959

 

[siik]

is the Lenovo ThinkVision L220X worth the $499 price tag? 22" inches, S-PVA, 92% color gamut? thoughts?

 

[Pugnate]

Hi is it a good idea to exchange my VX2230WM for a 2232BW by Samsung?

 

[birdiefest]

Looking for some advice...I'm in the market for a new LCD. I'll be using mostly Photoshop. I shoot RAW files and I edit mostly in sRGB. I'm intrigued by the NEC MultiSync 20WMGX2 - seems like a great LCD and there is a good deal at NewEgg. I can't help but look at the larger screens - specifically the 24 inch like the BenQ FP241W.

I am looking for accurate color rendition, but I'm not manically obsessed with it. Would it be better to the the 20 inch widescreen with the IPS panel (20WMGGX2) versus the 24 inch widescreen with the MVA panel (BenQ FP241W)? The other 24 inch NEC LCDs recommended at the beginning of this thread are a bit out of my price range.

Thanks in advance!
David

 

[FireChicken]

Originally posted by: siik
is the Lenovo ThinkVision L220X worth the $499 price tag? 22" inches, S-PVA, 92% color gamut? thoughts?

I am interested in this monitor also, but I wonder how this LCD will be as a gaming monitor. Specifically very interested in its input lag. Waiting for reviews...

 

[dushan42]

Hi! First of all thanks for this insanely useful thread.

I thought it was time to replace my ancient 21'' Sony CRT with a shiny new LCD, however after a bit of research I am no longer so sure. The market seems to be a complete mess with poor quality panels, panel lottery, quality vs response time tradeoffs, questionable return policies, etc. Is there a new technology on a horizon that will achieve the speed/low cost of TN and picture quality of IPS? Should I hold on to my cash for another year or are things unlikely to improve?

At work I have a decent Dell 2007WFPb (21'', A03, V1B18 RT803, I think it's S-IPS). I'm happy with it - it's pretty good for programming (text is nice and crisp, easy on the eyes) and it's reasonable for gaming (no ghosting, nice colours). I'd buy it right now if not for the panel lottery (bad dell!). Can you recommend anything that would match this monitor but without the lottery?

I'm also tempted to go for a larger screen (21'' feels a bit cramped, x1200 resolution would be great for coding). Since the whole 22'' range seems like a no-no (they're all TN, right?), 24'' would be most logical. BenQ FP241W and HP LP2465 sound ok but I'm worried about response times. How do these perform with games? Does the text look as good as on S-IPS?

Bestbuy has LG L246WP-BN which allegedly has the same panel as BenQ. Unfortunately the demo unit is hooked up to analog input & running at non-native resolution so it's really hard to tell if it's any good. Does anyone have the LG? Again - how's the response time?

Many of you like the NEC 20WMGX2 and it does seem really good except for the price to inches ratio. Is the quality really so much better than the monitors I've mentioned above? Does it justify the price / lack of screen estate?

In summary, there is really nothing that jumps out and makes me want to part with my money (I'd take my work dell right now but then I'd probably part with my job ). This is really a last ditch to find a monitor that I won't regret buying, any recommendations would be much appreciated.

 

[eatbuckshot]

Ahh, I see, I was afraid of that. I know that some lcd monitors do do frame skipping if set to a higher hz however my laptop has an actual 100hz. That may seem a bit of a fallacy as my laptop is limited in production and of the owners, I probably am the only one who actually ever tried tweaking the refresh rate using powerstrip. I'm pretty sure i'm not hallucinating though as I can set the refresh rate at extremities such as 6 hz and 160 hz. At 6 hz, any kind of movement is basically a slide show. At 160hz many of the colors are messed up but i can still make out the pictures and animations on this is amazingly smooth. 100hz is the sweet spot though for my laptop. There are no visual artifacts and it is noticeably smoother than 60hz. I have a asus v6j btw.

It's not so much that flickering is a problem but just the lack of the same fluidity of motion i can get compared to a CRT and my laptop lcd.

It is true that most games do not benefit but i know for a fact the way the gldsrc engine works, the fps dramatically changes game play especially in counter-strike