[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Nnyan
I wonder how the DoubleSight DS-245W compares to the Gateway FHD2400?

Really the same way the LP2465 does.

The FHD2400's rendering of dark tones isn't that great, but it has good response and low input lag.

The DS-245W will render dark tones better and it has a lower black level due to the VA panel. It should appear more uniform to the eye too with less viewing angle problems.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TMoney468

Originally posted by: Cheex

Originally posted by: TMoney468
Cheex, would that 24" DoubleSight be comparable to a Dell 2007WFP with image quality and color accuracy? And do you know how that DoubleSight compares to the HP LP2465?

I'm not 100% sure but the panel used in the DoubleSight could very well be the same panel as the one used in the HP LP2465.

Samsung LTM240M2

In which case, the quality would be the same. :thumbsup:

Cheex, you're right. From Prad.de:

In the LP2465, Hewlett-Packard incorporates an S-PVA panel (LTM240M2) by Samsung. Sporting a maximum contrast of 1000:1, this panel accounts for a high contrast range and accordingly good black levels.

Seems like the same panel as the HP but for about $100 less! Hmm...should I or shouldn't I cancel my 2007WFP order for one of these...

Ya the DS-245W looks like a great deal to be honest with you.

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: xtknight


Ya the DS-245W looks like a great deal to be honest with you.

Let me get this straight...

DoubleSight DS-245W
HP LP2465
Dell 2407WFP

1) All these use the same Samsung S-PVA panel?
2) So the only difference would be the physical style and 'added' features?
3) The performance and quality is exactly the same?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cheex

Originally posted by: xtknight


Ya the DS-245W looks like a great deal to be honest with you.

Let me get this straight...

DoubleSight DS-245W
HP LP2465
Dell 2407WFP

1) All these use the same Samsung S-PVA panel?
2) So the only difference would be the physical style and 'added' features?
3) The performance and quality is exactly the same?

The DoubleSight and HP use the same or a better S-PVA panel than the original Dell 2407WFP.

The Dell 2407WFP-HC is wide gamut, so it does NOT use the same panel as the LP2465 or DS-245W.

Just because the panel is the same doesn't mean they all have the same performance. Sure it's very likely, but there could be problems too. I can not tell you more than a professional review can about these monitors. Considering the DS-245W has no pro reviews yet, it is difficult to recommend it. But it's sure a good bet. I just don't know if I'd buy it blindly myself but at least for you adventurous folk it may be the best option.

Differences could include overdrive mechanism (to prevent ghosting), scaling quality, refresh rates and resolutions scaling support, and OSD (color adjustments, interpolation options). My worst fear is that the overdrive on one of the untested or less-known S-PVA monitors is too aggressive, causing ghosting. Other than that, there's little to be concerned about besides OSD which is usually good enough even at the worst. Or there could be something horrible like unadjustable dynamic contrast or DV modes like early-rev Dells.

This is generally why you wait for reviews. You can not pick an LCD simply by seeking out the panel model #. You can limit your options this way and then research each possibility by finding reviews for each of the models you came up with. Either this, or you purchase the LCD from a store like Newegg that doesn't offer refunds and then you learn the hard way. I don't want that to happen to anyone.

 

[ivanchin99]

Hey it's me again..
Was initially going for a LG 226WTQ but because of delivery and supplier problem.... i had to wait longer for my new LCD

Went to my local store 2 days ago and spotted 2 LCD on display side-2-side.

It was a Samsung 226BW and a Samsung 2232BW.
The 226BW was unmistakenly brighter than the 2232BW other than that, i dont think i noticed much difference between the 2. I didnt check which panel either of them are using but perhaps gonna do that next time.

So the question now is which one should i get?
Should i just get either one that has the better Panel?
But what about when both of em have the same Panel?
226BW or 2232BW?

226BW is slighty more expensive..

 

[ClockHound]

I would try the FP241W, personally. Although there have been some black-out problems with it they seem to be resolvable with video card options if need be. And such problems may be fair game for claiming the monitor defective and returning it without too much hassle.

OK, I'm you, trying the 241W, personally. Price dropped another $50, had to grab it. The difference between the 21" 215TW and the 24" Benny was less than $20 per inch! Hope I don't black-out from the endless desktop expanse of a 1920 X 1200 universe. More news when the immensity arrives. Thanks, xtknight!

 

[imported_ADDICTION]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ADDICTION
Hi all guys

I want to buy a new display with Christmass but I don't know if I should pick the HP W2207H or the Dell 2208WFP... The monitor is going to be used to play games, movies, and I'm prolly going to buy a TV-tuner too.

I hope you guys can give me a clear answer!

Thx in advance

Addiction

I would go with the HP myself. The 2208WFP may not be much improvement over the Dell E228WFP (but I don't know for sure). The HP is the safest option here. It is a glossy panel.

Yeah indeed. I heard alot of positive things about this display. Still, I'm doubting if I should go for an 22" or 24" inch display. For games 24" is maybe a bit over the top (vid card ?) but for movies it is just perfect...

 

[Araemo]

Has anyone heard of any realistic replacements for the NEC 20WMGX2?

It had such a wonderful combination of response time + color correctness.. and now it's out of stock at newegg completely.. they don't even list the items. I was hoping to use my tax refund check for that monitor, and now I don't really see any comparable monitors in the list. (I am very response-time sensitive.. I thought I wasn't, until I tried playing The Specialists and Natural Selection on my current LCD, which works well enough for every other game I've played recently...

Both of those games are so fast-paced, any form of ghosting really kills accuracy/ability.

But at the same time, I do enough digital photography, I want good color reproduction...

Sure, I can get the same stats in a 27" monitor for 3x as much, but I can't afford that...

 

[Skott]

Originally posted by: ivanchin99
Hey it's me again..
Was initially going for a LG 226WTQ but because of delivery and supplier problem.... i had to wait longer for my new LCD

Went to my local store 2 days ago and spotted 2 LCD on display side-2-side.

It was a Samsung 226BW and a Samsung 2232BW.
The 226BW was unmistakenly brighter than the 2232BW other than that, i dont think i noticed much difference between the 2. I didnt check which panel either of them are using but perhaps gonna do that next time.

So the question now is which one should i get?
Should i just get either one that has the better Panel?
But what about when both of em have the same Panel?
226BW or 2232BW?

226BW is slighty more expensive..

Were the two LCDs set to the same brightness level? Often they come out of the box set at 100% and the user has to set them to personal preference. Hence the brighter 226BW might have been set at 100% and the 2232BW set at 75%, 50%, or whatever. Often the stores set the demos up at whatever default setting the factory had them at. Also people do play around with the demos. This is why its good if the buyer can play around with the settings of the demos to get a comparble comparison before buying. Which leads me back to my original question. Were they set to the same % brightness?

Its a known fact the samsung 226BW has a panel lottery. Not sure if the 2232BW does or not but it wouldnt surprise me if it did. Maybe xknight has more info on this?

 

[Triglet]

I ended up buying an LG L226WTQ(BF) from Best Buy when they had it on sale for $280.

I love it! I primarily game -- FPS (BF Series), Total War Series, etc, etc. No dead pixels that I've found and no ghosting that I can see. Only thing I've noticed is what I think is called backlight bleeding when the screen is black. It doesn't bother me -- I don't watch movies on the pc anyway, and I don't ever see it in games.

I'm coming from a real nice 19" aperture grill CRT, one of the Diamondtron's put out by NEC/Mitsubishi. I was hesitant to make the switch, but I'm glad I did. I'm loving the size increase, no way I'll ever go back! (and yes, I hear that all the time from women...)

Thanks to OP and everyone else whose provided info here!

 

[GeneralOreo]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: GeneralOreo
So if I have 500/600 dollars for a monitor upgrade from a 20WMGX2, what would I buy? Is there really something that'd be an upgrade? Mostly I'm concenred about:

- response time.
- response time.
- response time.
- scaling of low res material.
- inputs (component, HDMI).
- must be widescreen.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing out there but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Well, there is nothing that is IPS in the $500-600 range.

OK so what if my budget would go up to 1000? or even 1500? What kind of quality would I be getting? Is there something that completely outclasses the 20WMGX2?

I was thinking of buying a Sharp 32" 1080p display, but honestly they're just too big.

 

[xtknight]

I meant to note the changes I made to the OP lately.

Making the Gaming section is always a challenge. The only CRT-like LCDs out there (in terms of response/lag) are 19" TN panels. Yet, the 24" TNs w/ low lag like the Samsung 245BW and Gateway FHD2400 come close. Therefore, I have also added these. Hopefully that is clear. 24" VAs have been removed; they simply have too much lag to warrant being in the stricter Gaming section. For those who already game on 24" VA panels, more power to you: you probably have a better panel overall. The Gaming section is for a very niche market but one I feel I must still serve. I haven't seen a 22" that really qualifies here besides the Iiyama 22" which is supposed to be really good for gaming, but isn't available in the US.

- NEC LCD2690WUXi recommended for Multimedia (it's certainly worthy as such)
- Samsung 245BW for Gaming (low input lag, good response)
- Gateway FHD2400 for Multimedia/Gaming

 

[Nnyan]

I had the 226BW and the 2232BW for two weeks each and they are pretty equal they are both nice monitors. Overall I would say the 226BW is a bit better (I did not get the samsung panel) IMHO (at least in games).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Araemo
Has anyone heard of any realistic replacements for the NEC 20WMGX2?

It had such a wonderful combination of response time + color correctness.. and now it's out of stock at newegg completely.. they don't even list the items. I was hoping to use my tax refund check for that monitor, and now I don't really see any comparable monitors in the list. (I am very response-time sensitive.. I thought I wasn't, until I tried playing The Specialists and Natural Selection on my current LCD, which works well enough for every other game I've played recently...

Both of those games are so fast-paced, any form of ghosting really kills accuracy/ability.

But at the same time, I do enough digital photography, I want good color reproduction...

Sure, I can get the same stats in a 27" monitor for 3x as much, but I can't afford that...

Sorry to say it but we all feel your pain.

Why don't you give the HP LP2065 (AMVA/S-IPS) a try? I can't guarantee great response time but it's certainly good, and color reproduction is decent as well. The LP2065 still has a wealth of S-IPS panels going out and the AMVA panel isn't too shabby either. It has nice contrast.

Others have been looking at the DoubleSight DS-245W for a cheaper 24" S-PVA option but I don't know about the response time on it. I don't know much at all about it actually, I haven't been keeping up on it. Generally I only pay attention to pro reviews these days. I can not give too much merit to user reviews of monitors.

At the same time there's the 24" Gateway FHD2400 with a glossy panel and good response with low input lag. It doesn't render dark tones all that well, though.

The 24" 245BW may be better at dark tones and it has a good response time as well.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: GeneralOreo

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: GeneralOreo
So if I have 500/600 dollars for a monitor upgrade from a 20WMGX2, what would I buy? Is there really something that'd be an upgrade? Mostly I'm concenred about:

- response time.
- response time.
- response time.
- scaling of low res material.
- inputs (component, HDMI).
- must be widescreen.

I'm pretty sure there's nothing out there but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Well, there is nothing that is IPS in the $500-600 range.

OK so what if my budget would go up to 1000? or even 1500? What kind of quality would I be getting? Is there something that completely outclasses the 20WMGX2?

I was thinking of buying a Sharp 32" 1080p display, but honestly they're just too big.

The Samsung 275T is a good option that will beat or match the 20WMGX2 in many aspects. Same with Dell 2707WFP. They're not IPS so they won't have quite the stable viewing angle the NEC does. Still, the 27"ers have great response time and color/contrast.

There is also the NEC LCD2490WUXi (H-IPS) and NEC LCD2690WUXi (H-IPS). These should outclass the 20WMGX2 in all aspects except for response time.

The Dell 3007WFP and HP LP3065 30" monitors are also good options. The Samsung 305T is certainly good too if you're a contrast man.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Skott

Originally posted by: ivanchin99
Hey it's me again..
Was initially going for a LG 226WTQ but because of delivery and supplier problem.... i had to wait longer for my new LCD

Went to my local store 2 days ago and spotted 2 LCD on display side-2-side.

It was a Samsung 226BW and a Samsung 2232BW.
The 226BW was unmistakenly brighter than the 2232BW other than that, i dont think i noticed much difference between the 2. I didnt check which panel either of them are using but perhaps gonna do that next time.

So the question now is which one should i get?
Should i just get either one that has the better Panel?
But what about when both of em have the same Panel?
226BW or 2232BW?

226BW is slighty more expensive..

Were the two LCDs set to the same brightness level? Often they come out of the box set at 100% and the user has to set them to personal preference. Hence the brighter 226BW might have been set at 100% and the 2232BW set at 75%, 50%, or whatever. Often the stores set the demos up at whatever default setting the factory had them at. Also people do play around with the demos. This is why its good if the buyer can play around with the settings of the demos to get a comparble comparison before buying. Which leads me back to my original question. Were they set to the same % brightness?

Its a known fact the samsung 226BW has a panel lottery. Not sure if the 2232BW does or not but it wouldnt surprise me if it did. Maybe xknight has more info on this?

The 2232BW also has a panel lottery and the panels have worse characteristics just like the 226BW: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...&mo2=278&p2=2617&ph=11

The Samsung 226CW may be an LCD to try (guaranteed wide gamut S panel), but it can have some more input lag.

 

[xtknight]

The Sharp 32" (LC-32GP1U) has been added. It's a pretty nice HTPC LCD, the only problem being the forced-on dynamic contrast. That makes it difficult for general use and more suited to multimedia. Many people love it though. See the HardForum thread for more info. I'm not sure what the purpose of an HTPC LCD is besides playing movies/video on it most of the time. Due to the dynamic contrast issue it's not really suitable as an everyday monitor though, at least in my opinion.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Triglet
I ended up buying an LG L226WTQ(BF) from Best Buy when they had it on sale for $280.

I love it! I primarily game -- FPS (BF Series), Total War Series, etc, etc. No dead pixels that I've found and no ghosting that I can see. Only thing I've noticed is what I think is called backlight bleeding when the screen is black. It doesn't bother me -- I don't watch movies on the pc anyway, and I don't ever see it in games.

I'm coming from a real nice 19" aperture grill CRT, one of the Diamondtron's put out by NEC/Mitsubishi. I was hesitant to make the switch, but I'm glad I did. I'm loving the size increase, no way I'll ever go back! (and yes, I hear that all the time from women...)

Thanks to OP and everyone else whose provided info here!

I'm glad LG has fixed the ghosting problems. I'm happy to be able to recommend this LCD again. Glad you are enjoying it too.

Originally posted by: ivanchin99
Hey it's me again..
Was initially going for a LG 226WTQ but because of delivery and supplier problem.... i had to wait longer for my new LCD

Went to my local store 2 days ago and spotted 2 LCD on display side-2-side.

It was a Samsung 226BW and a Samsung 2232BW.
The 226BW was unmistakenly brighter than the 2232BW other than that, i dont think i noticed much difference between the 2. I didnt check which panel either of them are using but perhaps gonna do that next time.

So the question now is which one should i get?
Should i just get either one that has the better Panel?
But what about when both of em have the same Panel?
226BW or 2232BW?

226BW is slighty more expensive..

I would avoid both and just go with one recommended in the OP. The 2232BW uses different panels too, but maybe it's a better bet.

Sorry, I don't quite understand your situation - are you still waiting for the L226 and want an LCD in the interim, or have you given up on obtaining the L226? Maybe one of the other LCDs in the OP is suitable for you?

 

[brencat]

Hi All. Does anyone have an opinion on the new NEC ASLCD24WMCX ? Based on 5ms response time and 178* viewing angles, it seems to be PVA panel but I could be mistaken. It's ~ $500 :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002359

How would this compare with the existing NEC 2470WVX with 5ms but only 160* viewing angles ~ $580 which sounds like a TN ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002378


Pretty much ruled out a 22" (too small) and now looking for a 24" that would be suitable for gaming that won't break the bank. (I play mostly shooters FYI)

 

[ClockHound]

Originally posted by: brencat
Hi All. Does anyone have an opinion on the new NEC ASLCD24WMCX ? Based on 5ms response time and 178* viewing angles, it seems to be PVA panel but I could be mistaken. It's ~ $500

I almost jumped for that too! But, sadly, its a TN too. Check the Prad.de log. They say it's a 160 vu angle.
http://www.prad.de/en/guide/screen4074.html

Got fooled by the 2470WVX too. Price search engine mistook it for the LCD2470WNX which is a VA and $200 more than my budget.


xtknight added the Gateway FHD2400 and Samsung 245BW to the Gaming LCD list. Both TN screens, tho. I got to play with the 245BW in store with net access. Seemed ok at first. Visited some LCD screen test sites and realized I couldn't live with a 24" TN, without a head clamp of some type. I had to go with a VA, so I'm impatiently waiting for the $500 BenQ 241W to arrive...

 

[ivanchin99]

Sorry i didnt explain my situation more clearly.

In this isolated place of mine, it's not easy to find many stores that actually sell LCD monitors. I only have 4 choices - Samsung 226BW, Samsung 2232BW, Acer 22" (ew), Dell 22"(online) .. Hence i couldnt get your recommended LCDs in ur original post. Lg L226wtq is now not a possiblity as well because of some problem by the seller and i just want a LCD probably in the next few days so buying at local store is the fastest option.

 

[aminparis]

Hello,

Just some more info on those interested in the Samsung SyncMaster 2232BW... So far in Europe there have been CMO panel versions of this screen; however, nothing too dramatic (Samsung has remedied the inconsistent reactivity) with just slightly bluish colors that can be somewhat manually corrected. For those interested, here is an article on Behardware.com (http://www.behardware.com/arti...ces-3eme-fournee.html) and digitalversus.com (http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-2683-36.html). Our site would be interested in knowing what's the status in the US or elsewhere for this screen?

thanks

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: ClockHound
xtknight added the Gateway FHD2400 and Samsung 245BW to the Gaming LCD list. Both TN screens, tho. I got to play with the 245BW in store with net access. Seemed ok at first. Visited some LCD screen test sites and realized I couldn't live with a 24" TN, without a head clamp of some type. I had to go with a VA, so I'm impatiently waiting for the $500 BenQ 241W to arrive...

Thx ClockHound. Yeah, I saw the 245BW at Best Buy a few weeks back but was lukewarm at best regarding its image.

Haven't seen the FHD2400 yet. So...you ended up buying the BenQ? Correct me, but that has issues per xtknights summary at top of thread, and wouldn't be suitable for gaming due to higher than avg response time, right?

Edit: Okay, after scouring around some more, it seems like people are gravitating toward the BenQ 241Ws that have the "Sept 2007 manufacture date". I guess there was some kind of firmware revision recently and there is now an option to turn overscan on/off. Can anyone clarify this for me?

 

[Cellulose]

Hi,

I read through the first page and thanks!

However I am looking for a monitor in the UK and it turns out its a little harder to finalize on a monitor than I thought it would be.

I am looking for a monitor for gaming on both the PC and on an Xbox 360 as well as general browsing/messenging. Wall mountable is nice but I cant find any cheap wall mountable monitors so far.

I am not looking to spend more than 180-190 pounds so I narrowed it down to a few (well...not so few ):

Acer P223W/X223W: 160/135 (no1 choice atm 22inch)
-Acer P203W: 140 (20 inch version)

Samsung SM2032BW/206BW: 160/160 (no2 choice atm 20inch)

+CIBOX C2201/C2201D: 150/165
+Belinea 2225S1W/Belinea 2230S1W: 160
+ASUS VW222S: 160

I was hoping for a 22 inch for better use with the Xbox 360 (where I will probably a few more feet away), but included a 20 inch if the specs mean that much more. Whats confusing me a little however is the different way to measure things like response time for example, as it doesnt always say.

Unfortunately, I only know what I understood from reading your guide So any help would be greatly appreciated...thanks!

Joe

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: brencat
Hi All. Does anyone have an opinion on the new NEC ASLCD24WMCX ? Based on 5ms response time and 178* viewing angles, it seems to be PVA panel but I could be mistaken. It's ~ $500 :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002359

How would this compare with the existing NEC 2470WVX with 5ms but only 160* viewing angles ~ $580 which sounds like a TN ?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002378


Pretty much ruled out a 22" (too small) and now looking for a 24" that would be suitable for gaming that won't break the bank. (I play mostly shooters FYI)

It is possible the first one is a PVA (I also heard this in a rumor of an upcoming 24" 20WMGX2-like screen).

You have all the normal characteristic differences. You have taken a look at the OP?

PVA will have a viewing angles that are more widely lit than a TN. In the immediate viewing angle, there can be more gamma shifting with darker tones on a PVA. But at the farther angles, PVAs will still be lit more overall.

PVAs have a more uniform screen overall than TNs (the worst of which can look nearly silky or inkblotty). TNs very often have a lot of trouble looking uniform on the whole panel.

TNs have a faster response time most of the time, but this depends on the response time control mechanism used.

I haven't seen any pro reviews of either model. NEC monitors will tend to have DV Modes and good color adjustment/setup so that's why these could be more interesting. We'll have to see for sure, though. They are AccuSync though, NEC's value business line, as opposed to their better and more well-respected MultiSyncs. (Well, at least the ASLCD* model# is.)