[Retired] The LCD Thread

[czajunia]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The 2490 is not available in Europe but the 2690 is?

As I wasn't 100% sure before I checked NEC web pages of different European countries and non of them has 2490 listed. I am gonna e-mail NEC and ask about this.

 

[DoctorM]

Just a heads up on TechOnWeb's customer service.
It stinks that they aren't there on the weekends, but I called today and they were quite friendly and the process was simple.

I'm doing an 'express replacement' (meaning they cross-ship). This is nice since it means I won't have to be without a monitor for 2-3 weeks.
They are even matching the old price and issuing a new sales slip so I can use the new rebate (which is the same amount but it gives me more time to deal with it).

The woman on the phone was a bit confused and said I'd end up paying shipping for the newly shipped one (making shipping 3 ways), but their return policy says they refund the original shipping cost, so I'll just have to see when it gets there.

I also asked about putting packing tape on the new monitor and she was convinced that they double boxed and did not ship the original manufacturer's box only.
I explained that this was not true and that the manufacturer does not seal the box in any way.
She said she put a note on the order for the warehouse to deal with it, but she said she can't guarantee it.

 

[cboath]

Hope it works out well and quickly for you then

If you get tape, i hope it's better than mine was. I'm now writing from the office on my dual CRT's and wow...talk about a culture shock. I've been in heaven with the 24" screen and vibrancy all weekend, only to come into 'this' at work

 

[DoctorM]

I think the boot up POST screen problem is a video card thing.

The DVI-HDMI cable is DVI-D (Digital Only) but my DVI to Analog converter is of course DVI-I (meaning it passes the analog signal as well).

I'm thinking my video card sends analog video over DVI during boot up but not digital.

So while an analog converter takes the incoming analog over DVI and passes it to the vx24's analog input, no digital data is sent. So using the DVI-HDMI cable there's no signal getting being passed until XP loads.

At least that's my guess.

For reference:
DVI-D (Digital Only)
(The connector on the DVI-HDMI cable)
http://www.datapro.net/images/dvi_ds.gif

DVI-I (Digital and Analog)
http://www.datapro.net/images/dvi_is.gif

(Shame we can't embed images.)

Edit: Viewsonic VX2435WM is "DVI-D over HDMI". I guess analog signals need not apply.
ATI Knowledge Base: https://support.ati.com/ics/su...r.asp?questionID=25682

 

[Mem]

If any UK members here are looking for a good cheap 24" LCD ,then you'll probably be interested in this one ,note it's not a TN panel but VA panel .

Feedback reviews can say a lot ,link.

 

[czajunia]

For anyone interested in getting NEC 2490WUXi in Europe. Bad news. It's definitely not available here. I just received an e-mail from NEC about this saying:

[....]This monitor is not available in Europe, only the US.
We do other 24" LCD which can be found on the uk website[...]

Great news - 'other 24'' LCD'. I wouldn't be asking about IPS monitor from professional line if I wanted to get a TN or *VA panel.... I guess.... They always want to sell you something, don't they?

 

[chubdeuce]

Great info here!

Going to get a new computer soon and was looking for some monitor advise. Right now I'm debating between a 22" vs a 24". It will be used for mainly for gaming and some general internet and work related use.

I'm going to be using a 8800 GTS 512 and I'd like to play at max resolution but I'd rather not have my vid card at max load with the fan sounding like a hurricane all the time (I don't want to upgrade for 2-3 years). That being said, I wouldn't mind playing at 1680x1050, but that begs the question of why bother with a 24" screen and forcing it to distort to 1680x1050 when you could just buy a cheaper 22" that displays that natively.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

 

[MDDI]

BenQ FP241W .

I wanted to share with everyone my experience with the BenQ FP241W.

BRILLIANT!

After way too much research I finally decided to buy this monitor. BenQ is not going to manufacture it any longer and I wanted to get a 24" VA panel before the TN's totally take over. I suppose I created "Paralysis Through Analysis" for myself.

I purchased it from NCIX for $600 US delivered. NCIX charges minimum $40 shipping to the US.

The manufacture date is September '07. I have 0 dead/stuck/bright pixels. I have not experienced the "blackout" issue (I used the DVI-D cable provided) and it operates no hotter than my previous LCD. It has 1:1 pixel mapping and the ability to enable/disable overscan in the setup menu.

I can't say that the September '07 build fixed all the problems or that all the negative about this monitor was exagerated or not.

I have to recommend this monitor if you can still find them, they will all be gone very soon. I am very pleased with this monitor!

 

[asiriusgeek]

Apologies in advance if I'm too far behind all of you to keep up!

I'm running 2 Dell DVI widescreen monitors from my Fujitsu T4220 via a Matrox DualHead2Go Digital. The stand provides for pivoting one monitor, but I'm not finding a way to tell Windows that's the config, and I'm afraid that because the Matrox works by letting Vista think I have one extra-widescreen display that this won't work because I can't use the Dell driver that would implement the rotated setting. I'd like to have one monitor in portrait mode (I'm an accountant, so I'd like to have documents on one screen and not have to scroll, and spreadsheets in landscape mode). Do I need to get a larger regular/non-widescreen monitor that will display documents large enough at the same resolution as the widescreen, or do I have to resign myself to continued scrolling? My eyesight seems to get worse by the day :frown:.

Also, does anyone know a way to "lock" display settings? I just set the Matrox up today, but it looks like each time I restart the system, Vista goes back to "clone mode" and messes up the display settings and I have to go in and reset everything (kind of a pain). I read in one of the posts something about sending an analog signal over the DVI during boot up. Is that what's causing this problem?

 

[Trean]

DoctorM:

So I haven't done much DVI->HDMI cable research so I will just ask the question to you and look around a little later if a response hasn't been posted by the time I can get to researching the topic.

Do DVI-I cables exist that do DVI to HDMI? If so that would make that sort of cable a better option than the included DVI-D conversion cable; albeit that would a long run big picture thing as both cables should give the same digital quality signals. But the DVI-I cable should display the boot texts?

 

[Killy]

xtknight:

Hey there, proud owner of a 931C. After calibration (and following xbit's guide) - it's simply fantastic.

ONE worry though.

When there are very very fast orange / blue transitions (e.g. try scrolling down your bookmarks in firefox really fast) - there is a very, very brief lime green afterimage. Is this a monitor defect, or part of the overdrive technology? (By the way, ATI CCC has the option to enable LCD overdrive - but this isn't turned on so I assume I'm not getting the 2ms RT - which is okay since this is already a ton better than my old 150S).

Thanks in advance : ]

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ChaoZ
I need recommendations on a new monitor. I really want a non-TN one. I'm currently using a 17" and that's already pretty big for me, so the monitor should be less than 20". I will use it for watching movies and gaming. I have a budget of $200-300.

I like the aesthetics of Dell monitors, but it seems that they're all TN.

The Dell 1907FPV is MVA but I don't know how fast it is (response time).

The ViewSonic VP930b is probably the best choice for you. The 971P is OK but it has response time issues so it's not as suitable for gaming or movies (I've seen user reports suggesting to avoid it for such purposes).

Originally posted by: chubdeuce
Great info here!

Going to get a new computer soon and was looking for some monitor advise. Right now I'm debating between a 22" vs a 24". It will be used for mainly for gaming and some general internet and work related use.

I'm going to be using a 8800 GTS 512 and I'd like to play at max resolution but I'd rather not have my vid card at max load with the fan sounding like a hurricane all the time (I don't want to upgrade for 2-3 years). That being said, I wouldn't mind playing at 1680x1050, but that begs the question of why bother with a 24" screen and forcing it to distort to 1680x1050 when you could just buy a cheaper 22" that displays that natively.

Thoughts/Recommendations?

Basically your purposes are Multimedia.

I recommend the ViewSonic VX2255wmb and LG L226WTQ for the 22" size.

The ViewSonic VX2435wm and HP LP2465 are good 24" options.

The normal rules apply for these LCDs: do more in depth research to make sure they have everything you want (for example, pivot or scaling options).

Personally I think you should get a 24" LCD. An 8800 GTS shouldn't be having much of a problem at 1920x1200. Worst case (e.g. Crysis) use 1680x1050 with centered mode, I guess, or lower the quality settings. That's about all you can do.

Stuff like Battlefield 2 is great on my 7800GT though at 1920x1200. I don't think most games will present a problem as long as you don't enable tons of AA.

Originally posted by: czajunia
For anyone interested in getting NEC 2490WUXi in Europe. Bad news. It's definitely not available here. I just received an e-mail from NEC about this saying:

[....]This monitor is not available in Europe, only the US.
We do other 24" LCD which can be found on the uk website[...]

Great news - 'other 24'' LCD'. I wouldn't be asking about IPS monitor from professional line if I wanted to get a TN or *VA panel.... I guess.... They always want to sell you something, don't they?

Indeed...TNs are becoming more and more prevalent.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: asiriusgeek
Apologies in advance if I'm too far behind all of you to keep up!

I'm running 2 Dell DVI widescreen monitors from my Fujitsu T4220 via a Matrox DualHead2Go Digital. The stand provides for pivoting one monitor, but I'm not finding a way to tell Windows that's the config, and I'm afraid that because the Matrox works by letting Vista think I have one extra-widescreen display that this won't work because I can't use the Dell driver that would implement the rotated setting. I'd like to have one monitor in portrait mode (I'm an accountant, so I'd like to have documents on one screen and not have to scroll, and spreadsheets in landscape mode). Do I need to get a larger regular/non-widescreen monitor that will display documents large enough at the same resolution as the widescreen, or do I have to resign myself to continued scrolling? My eyesight seems to get worse by the day :frown:.

Also, does anyone know a way to "lock" display settings? I just set the Matrox up today, but it looks like each time I restart the system, Vista goes back to "clone mode" and messes up the display settings and I have to go in and reset everything (kind of a pain). I read in one of the posts something about sending an analog signal over the DVI during boot up. Is that what's causing this problem?

Sorry, I'm really not experienced with that device (Matrox) at all.

It would probably be helpful to know what size monitors you have now so we know what to consider as a replacement. I'm betting 24" widescreen will work for you? Or do you need something even bigger?

Originally posted by: Trean
DoctorM:

So I haven't done much DVI->HDMI cable research so I will just ask the question to you and look around a little later if a response hasn't been posted by the time I can get to researching the topic.

Do DVI-I cables exist that do DVI to HDMI? If so that would make that sort of cable a better option than the included DVI-D conversion cable; albeit that would a long run big picture thing as both cables should give the same digital quality signals. But the DVI-I cable should display the boot texts?

HDMI does not transmit an analog signal whatsoever as DVI-I does. HDMI is DVI-D. Nevertheless, I don't have any idea how to solve the problem. I think it has more to do with how his video card is handling the start-up resolution.

Originally posted by: Killy
xtknight:

Hey there, proud owner of a 931C. After calibration (and following xbit's guide) - it's simply fantastic.

ONE worry though.

When there are very very fast orange / blue transitions (e.g. try scrolling down your bookmarks in firefox really fast) - there is a very, very brief lime green afterimage. Is this a monitor defect, or part of the overdrive technology? (By the way, ATI CCC has the option to enable LCD overdrive - but this isn't turned on so I assume I'm not getting the 2ms RT - which is okay since this is already a ton better than my old 150S).

Thanks in advance : ]

Overdrive in ATI CCC? I believe this is something they developed for laptops but you probably shouldn't enable this option if your monitor already has overdrive (as the 931C does).

The trails are indeed a side effect of the monitor's RTA (response time acceleration - overdrive) though, yes. Some Samsung LCDs have a service menu where you can turn RTA off but you're going to have to Google for this one. You're probably better off with it on anyway with slight artifacts because otherwise there will be blur.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: acegazda
How is gaming performance on the hpw2007 and 2207? All the info I've seen is kinda vague saying that it's a good overall lcd. The face to face comparison doesn't have these as an option, so no luck there either. I'm also interested in the vx2255wmb, but am concerned about gaming performance as well. Care to shed some light on either or both of these issues?

Well, you're right, the info is limited but here's a few things I do know:

- the HPs are both glossy. this means there will be a little crush in the dark details but blacks will appear very black.
- the w2207's image quality is inferior to the w2007's (at least in colors).
- the VX is a low latency (in terms of input lag) LCD that doesn't use overdrive. it's probably the best bet for gaming because of its lack of input lag. response time is natively quite fast and overdrive artifacts won't happen.

The L226WTQ can be great if you get a newer rev that has the fixed firmware. I think by now most are fixed but I still see little confirmation on this. I still have the ViewSonic higher on the totem pole because of that reason but the LG might be better for some. Input lag on the LG though does worry me and is potentially another reason the VX22 is higher for now. It depends on what you're most sensitive to, I suppose. VX for most people is great in my opinion also just due to its otherwise above average image quality.

I wish I could give you a more definite answer with regards to the HPs but all I can say is the HP w2207 is not the best 22" out there. It's the best 22" glossy panel though, so if glossy is important then that's your choice. The w2007 is great for a glossy 20" panel and the VX22 is likely the most suitable for a 22" gaming panel. Like I say though the L226WTQ is a close competitor: it has better response time, but more input lag. And who really knows which one is better until you try them. I certainly haven't tried both myself.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: DoctorM
As a quick note, searching the net further I found a comment that Viewsonic's 28" panel occasionally had this problem over HDMI (Blue Screen and not standby).
Viewsonic had to release a firmware update to fix it. I wonder if it's related.

When it happened with my VP2130b, I started reading forums and NewEgg reviews...and its a common problem with some ViewSonics, like the VP2030b 20" and VP2130b 21". In the case of the VPs, its easily fixable by changing the input and priority, but alot of people would change the input selection and not realize they had to change something else. Once you do, it boots and reboots to DVI every time, never scans for anything else, and shows every BIOS boot screen.

Unfortunately, the 24" must not come with the priority setting in the OSD...

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: czajunia
For anyone interested in getting NEC 2490WUXi in Europe. Bad news. It's definitely not available here. I just received an e-mail from NEC about this saying:

[....]This monitor is not available in Europe, only the US.
We do other 24" LCD which can be found on the uk website[...]

Great news - 'other 24'' LCD'. I wouldn't be asking about IPS monitor from professional line if I wanted to get a TN or *VA panel.... I guess.... They always want to sell you something, don't they?

Guess you'll have to do what I just did: get an NEC 2470WNX! I just ordered it from NewEgg and it should be here in 2 days.

Its a 24" S-PVA (so not a TN), 6ms, 500 cd/m2 brightness, and 1000:1 contrast ratio. Its not an IPS, but it has higher brightness (500 vs. 400) and contrast ratio (1000:1 vs. 800:1) than the 2490, a faster response time (6ms vs. 8ms), and the same amount of input lag as the 2490 according to PRAD (33ms=2 frames) and even less according to a user on HardOCP and WSGF forums (24ms=1.5 frames).

Thanks XTKnight for all the advice...

 

[Killy]

Thanks xt, put my mind at rest. The trails ARE a bit annoying, but time will probably get me used to them.

Now I have to decide whether this tiny pixel is worth RMA'ing or not. The funny thing is, it'll display dark colours fine, but any colours brighter / at a higher wavelength above it's pale teal will not display properly. Odd.

 

[Trean]

Buck Armstrong:

Why would you order an LCD from NewEgg? There return policy (lack of) on LCDs sucks. And there dead pixel policy is worth than industry standard.

I don't get it, so I ask why?

 

[Tetragrammaton]

I hope I'll be forgiven if I butt into this thread without reading the whole thing first...

I'm in the market for an LCD monitor that's less than $500 and will work well for gaming with both a PC and an Xbox 360. I spent a few days reading hardforum and getting some advice, but I'd like to see what the Anandtech crowd has to say.

Right now, I'm thinking that my best bets are either the Gateway FHD2400, the Westinghouse L2410NM, or the Dell SP2208WFP, but I'm very much open to other suggestions.

The Gateway has all the features that I could ask for (1:1 pixel mapping, separate HDMI and DVI inputs, 1080p capability), but it's right at the maximum for my price range, and I've read that it's had some creeping backlight bleeding issues.

The Westinghouse is cheaper and is MVA rather than the TN of the others, but the thread at hardforum is full of people complaining about either the input lag, display of blacks, or screen door effect issues.

The Dell has great claimed specs for gaming, and its by far the cheapest, but it's a 22" and thus can't display 1080p. I don't want to be hitting my head against the wall a few years from now for being shortsighted, and I'd like to get the full potential out of my Xbox 360. I also really like that it comes with a minimum 3-yr warranty.

I'm also considering the 20" version of the Dell for the better pixel pitch, but I'm not sure if that's a stupid tradeoff (2" of screen for pixel pitch).

Thoughts? Alternatives?

 

[bsongo]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: bsongo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824176059
Is there anything comparable to this monitor? The monitor seems to be the best bang for the buck.

Thank you for helping

Actually I do think that's the best deal for you. $30 more will get you the VX2435wm which has more video inputs but the HP is certainly a solid display. Right now we have some concerns about the VX's DVI connectivity. The VX is probably a better display overall in terms of image quality while the HP has a more sensible on-screen setup. It's really up to you.

Edit: I guess I sounded a little ambivalent (cough...when does that happen). The VX is a better choice if you're willing to plop down $30 more (after rebate that is). If you have an X850XT? card like DoctorM then you might want to be wary of DVI issues though or wait until he gets those issues figured out.

i have a gigabyte geforce 8600gt. will that be a problem?
i read the prad review
http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev...c-vx2435wm-part16.html

comparing the two monitors
http://prad.de/en/guide/ergebn...der=asc&Submit=compare

i thought s-pva screens were better for photo editing?
anymore recommendations? what about 22"?

i really appreciate the help

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Trean
Buck Armstrong:

Why would you order an LCD from NewEgg? There return policy (lack of) on LCDs sucks. And there dead pixel policy is worth than industry standard.

I don't get it, so I ask why?

Because the price with shipping is about $100 less than anywhere else.

Last time I ordered from Monitor Outlet, which has a 30-day return policy, and I returned a VP2130b. But they don't have the NEC in stock, and even if they did, its $100 more, just as it is everywhere else that has it once shipping is added. And no local stores carry it. So I did what I had to do...

Who do you order LCDs from?

 

[DoctorM]

Regarding gaming on a 24" panel... you might be surprised what some vid cards can handle. I have an old x850xt PE and I was surprised how many games I was playing at what I thought was near the cards limits at 1024x768 still have very good fps at 1920x1200.
Mind you I'm so far behind in games I want to play that most are a year old.
YMMV.
Still if you have something your card can't handle you can either play at a lower resolution and scale to fit or play it window boxed.
At least in the latter there is no quality hit and it's not going to be any smaller than if you were playing on a smaller panel. To me that's win-win.

Also: I guess w/o the holidays things move wicked fast at TechOnWeb. They shipped the replacement monitor today and FedEx is estimating Thursday delivery. That's 3 days! Woohoo.

As far as the POST screen, I've got 2 outputs on my vid card plus VIVO.
I'll wire both the Analog and Digital outs into my panel and if I ever need to get into the Bios or see what the system is doing in DOS, I'll just change the monitor's input setting.
Seems the best way until I upgrade my system.

 

[czajunia]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong

Guess you'll have to do what I just did: get an NEC 2470WNX! I just ordered it from NewEgg and it should be here in 2 days.

Its a 24" S-PVA (so not a TN), 6ms, 500 cd/m2 brightness, and 1000:1 contrast ratio. Its not an IPS, but it has higher brightness (500 vs. 400) and contrast ratio (1000:1 vs. 800:1) than the 2490, a faster response time (6ms vs. 8ms), and the same amount of input lag as the 2490 according to PRAD (33ms=2 frames) and even less according to a user on HardOCP and WSGF forums (24ms=1.5 frames).

Thanks XTKnight for all the advice...

Well, I do a bit of image editting so I'd prefer to get IPS, really. I know that *VA panels look better on paper but I personally think they are not match for IPS panels. Besides 2470 is from different line. 2490 which is a part of NEC's professional line offers more in the color control department.

I dunno. It's always like this. First you don't know what to get, then you spend like ages looking for something you don't even know. Eventually everything is clear and that's when the problems start - it's either out of production or not available where you live...

I am gonna wait for the answer from TFTCentral about Hazro 24'' panel and if it's not good I probably will stick with the little LCD20WGX2Pro for a moment. There's always Apple and their new cinema displays that should be availabel nowish but I don't think they will perform anywhere close to NEC.

 

[asintu]

Does it make sense that if you get a 24'' instead of a 27'' you don't have to use that much AA on the 24'' for the games to look about same quality?

 

[Trean]

You're right Buck the NEC 2470WNX is a hard find to get at a decent price outside of NewEgg.