[Retired] The LCD Thread

[pcgamer321]

Originally posted by: starcycle

Originally posted by: pcgamer321
Anyone have recommendations for a 20" widescreen that is still good for general use( I am a gamer), but doesn't cost like $400?
I'm not really sure where to begin, as monitors is not my strong subject.

Check out the L204WT xtknight just mentioned. I just got this today, and it's pretty impressive so far, esp. for the price. If you're a gamer, I think you would absolutely love this monitor. Lots of bang for the buck for a 20", with a very respectable 5ms, extremely minimal backlight bleeding, and apparently 24-bit color somehow. I'm still not clear if this is dithered color, or some sort of newish TN technology that provides 8-bit for TN panels, there seems to be conflicting information on the web. It's full 16.7, though, and looks pretty good. The gaming screens I've seen posted around the web are incredible (check |H|ard forums, they have a long 45 page thread on it). $210 +shipping at newegg, very hard to go wrong, imho.

alright, I'll check this monitor out!


edit:

I found the <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176078&Tpk=HP%2
bw2007">HP w2007</a>
and this LG L206WTY which seems better.

Oh btw, I think my budget can go up to $300

 

[Mallomar]

Originally posted by: SCCA Racer X
Mallomar:

Dealing directly with NEC in your case is the best way to go. Chill, its okay to be disappointed, but when you get the replacement, it'll be easy to forget the speed bump you're going over.

As far as the screen shots, if you captured the screen in software, you'll see the good image that the video card rendered, not the fubar image the monitor displayed. It would take a camera to capture that. But don't waste any more time with the bad monitor. Since NEC is cross-shipping, if you really feel the need to protect yourself, simply hold the bad one until you have the new one up and running. My gut tells me NEC has got you covered.

Thanks for the explanation of why my screen shots don't show the image problems. I might go ahead and reconnect the monitor temporarily to get some clear digital photos that show the problems. (I certainly can't actually USE the monitor -- it's just too difficult to see anything in the jumbled display.)

The NEC guy said it would take a couple of days for them to process the request and authorize the DOA exchange. I'll be a lot happier when I know it's approved and the new monitor is on its way.

I'm also assuming NEC has me covered, but I still have my fingers crossed!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mallomar

Originally posted by: xtknight
Then I think you should waste no time getting an RMA for this monitor. It seems to be obviously/clearly defective. You might try the Reset button on it first but I doubt that would fix anything and it shouldn't have shipped with messed up settings.

Depending on which store you ordered it from, you may have to contact NEC directly for replacements. Check the store's return policies for LCDs or even a specific policy for this monitor which would probably be listed on its product/specs/order page.

I wonder if I made a mistake by dealing directly with NEC for the exchange? Buy.com's product page says nothing at all about their return policy. I've e-mailed them, but will call tomorrow if they don't respond. BTW, I searched Buy.com for LCD monitor return policy, but the results turned up only a Linda Ronstadt Box Set. :laugh:

I initially called NEC to find out what I could do to try to adjust the monitor -- I still wasn't sure it was defective. I described the problems to the NEC guy (and my troubleshooting attempts, including hooking up the monitor to my other PC with a different cable) and asked him what I should do to fix the problems. When the guy said it was defective, there was nothing I could do to adjust the problems, and they would replace it, I said "So I shouldn't send it back to Buy.com?" and said no.

He assured me that since it would be considered DOA, and not a monitor that failed further into the warranty period, it would be replaced with a new unit, they would cross-ship, and pay for return shipping for the defective unit. Of course NEC has to authorize all this.

I did check the NEC web site, which confirms that a DOA monitor can be returned within 30 days for a new one.

I had done a bunch of screen shots of particularly awful-looking image persistence, in case they wanted some kind of proof, but to my astonishment when I open the screen shots in Photoshop they all look fine! Do you have any idea how/why this would happen? I wish I had checked the screen shots before I packed up the monitor. I might have to set it up again and shoot some digital photos.

Burn-in appears at a particular location on the screen only. The video card does not know it exists, because it is a problem on the monitor. When you take a screenshot you are only dumping the video card's memory. Therefore, it will only appear if you open it on the monitor in the same spot.

BTW, I always thought DOA meant the equipment didn't work at all. Apparently that's not the case.

For electronics, DOA is the same as defective. For humans DOA means what it sounds like.

This is all kind of stressful. I hate spending this kind of money and running into problems right off the bat. I just hope that I did the right thing by agreeing with the NEC guy that they would replace it, and that they do replace it with another new one.

And I'm just boggled about those screen shots looking fine. Maybe I'm going crazy!

Mallomar

Yes I think you did the right thing by contacting NEC. They tend to have nice customer service so I wouldn't worry much.

 

[starcycle]

Originally posted by: pcgamer321

edit:

I found the <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176078&Tpk=HP%2
<b">bw2007">HP w2007</a>
and this LG L206WTY which seems better.

Oh btw, I think my budget can go up to $300

the 206 has a faster response time, but it doesn't have 16.7 million colors, only 16.2. the human eye probably woulldn't be able to detect the difference, but that says to me that the panels are different, and that some image quality has probably been sacrificed for the extra couple of ms (which you probably won't notice, either ). and who knows, maybe there would be subtle differences in blacks, etc.

the w2007 is a really nice monitor, and I would have gone for it but it has the glossy screen. if that's not an issue for you, it would also be a good choice, imo.

 

[jcc56]

First, great thread.....thanks to all for your contributions. It has really helped me get a handle some of the current offerings.

I'm researching displays as I plan to upgrade my system. I don't really want a widescreen for PC but seems that's all that is really available with good technology.

In looking at specifications I think I might be interested in the BENQ X2200W. If anyone has actually seen / used one of these please post your impressions and thoughts. I haven't found anywhere that you can actually see a BENQ display.....

I'm currently using a Samsung 191T and it has been a great monitor with its only drawback being slow response time for gaming. In general I've learned to live with it. Overall, I have been a fan of Samsung for awhile but the stuff I've read on the 226BW has given me some concerns. If I could be sure I was getting an S-Type panel, is the 226BW a good choice? I have the opportunity to get one that is an S-Type panel.

As far as my planned system upgrade and usage, I'll probably end up with a moderately high-end system -- Dell XPS 720 or Alienware Area 51 level. Main uses are FPS, RP, and strategy gaming (so graphics performance is very important), general web browsing / text applications (crisp, readable text), and non-professional photo enthusiast (good color performance). I do not watch DVDs and do very little video editting so that is of least importance in my decision.

I'd prefer the viewing angle performance of a S-PVA/PVA/MVA panel but they seem to not be available in the 22" models. I don't want to bigger than 22" since I don't really want a widescreen to start with. I'd definitely consider a 19" - 20.1" - 21.x" normal aspect ratio monitor as well if it has the performance level I want. One of the features that I definitely don't want is the hardcoat contrast enhancement which causes high level of reflections. Lastly, I'm willing to pay somewhat of a premium so doesn't have to be the cheapest option.

Any suggestions of what I should be looking at as opposed to the BENQ X2200W or Samsung 226BW?

 

[Cheex]

@ xtknight:

What is your take on this monitor?
HANNS.G HG281DPB

I'm in search of the best 1920x1200 monitor under $600, mainly for gaming and, to a lesser extent, some movies.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Butaz
Did you try this new thing available on http://www.digitalversus.com: free calibration profile for LCD displays. Apple, Samsung, ViewSonic, there's a lot there. Around 60 I think. There are in fact two reviews:
First is "Are our calibration profiles good for all LCD monitors?" :
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-423.html

They write: We give you the profiles for most screens! Great, you say. But will they work with all operating systems (Windows XP, Vista, Mac...) or different graphic cards?
Then: "Download a calibration profile for your screen" :
http://www.digitalversus.com/article-424.html

LCD default color rendering can range from good (the best are factory pre-calibrated) to utterly awful. Color dominances are frequent and lately there has been the particular trend of more bluish colors except in white which has a reddish tinge.
I've tried the one for the Samsung SyncMaster 226BW A version. It worked great!

Awesome. Thanks for the link.

Originally posted by: czajunia

Originally posted by: xtknight
Well you should be happy with the LCD20WGX2 Pro, I've no doubt.

After reading so many positive reviews and user opinions I am sure I will. I think the only thing I may not be happy about is the size and resolution.
I am gonna keep an eye on the Hazro 24'' model though just in case it turns out to be a good NEC 2490 alternative.

Also, I am thinking about getting a colorimeter and noticed that you recommend Pantone Huey Pro over Spyder2 Express. Are there a lot of differences between these two? The reason I am asking is that I can get a Spyder for about £60 and Pantone is like 50% more expensive (£90). Is it worth spending the extra or will they both do the job comparably? Thank's!

Both should do the job. The Huey Pro is about the same price here in the US.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: czajunia
More colorimeter questions.

How do Pantone Huey Pro and Spyder2 Express compare to Eye-One Display2? What is the difference between GretagMacbeth and Pantone versions of Eye-One Display2. I read that they are the same products sold under different brands. Is this correct and is the bundled software the same for both products? Cheers!

I think the bundled software is different but they are the same HW. I'm unsure which software is better.

If I knew, I'd love to tell you more. You can look at the TFTcentral review here though.

Read conclusion, in particular: http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/pantone_huey.htm

 

[Mari0Br0s]

Originally posted by: Cheex
@ xtknight:

What is your take on this monitor?
HANNS.G HG281DPB

I'm in search of the best 1920x1200 monitor under $600, mainly for gaming and, to a lesser extent, some movies.

http://necdisplay.com/Products...4c93-8243-938ad36dcea8

It's not a MultiSync, but still a good NEC.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Mari0Br0s
Hi xnight,

First of all, let's start by saying that I've read the first 30 pages of this post, but got tired after seeing that there were 139 pages!!! LOL So it is possible that the questions I am going to ask you has already been asked, but I'll take a chance.

I'm presently the owner of a NEC MultiSync FE992-BK and I love it! I've been using this monitor since July 2005 without having any troubles. Anyways, I never had any troubles with NEC's monitor, I've been using them since '98, I had a MultiSync 75 for 7 years before.. But recently, I've moved and my office is now smaller than it was, so I needed to get a smaller desk, and as you can expect, the FE992-BK is way to big, I do not have much space left to work on the desk.

So here I am in the business for an LCD monitor.
Here are my needs:

1- Monitor needs to be white or silver (to match my Mac)

2- Monitor needs to be detected correctly by OSX Leopard, I've seen some monitor not being detected at all, so the resolutions options were not all available, and no drivers for Mac even existed. (it was an LG 22" model)

3- Monitor needs to have a fast respond time, since I often play first person shooters game. (hehe we're never too old to play video games )

4- I'm looking for a 20" widescreen.
5- Monitor needs to have a great contrast ratio and good colors, since I'm also often doing video editing and some photoshop.

6- dot pitch of 0.26 of greater(smaller)

According to my needs, the NEC 20WMGX2 that you own will fit all my needs. The glossy isn't a problem, since it can't be worse than on my FE992 CRT. Presently at work, we have a Spectra View 3D monitor, which is a NEC 90GX2 that has been customized. This monitor looks great, and the glossy does not botter me at all. Also, I've read in the previous post, that this monitor was generating a lot of heat. The customized 90GX2 monitor that I have here, is very cool. I'm wondering if the 90GX2 is suppost to get hot like the 20WMGX2 or is it the customized panel that generate less heat.

One thing that really botter me about the 20WMGX2, are the speakers. Are they unmountable? (Removable from the monitor) I guess they are, since the European 20WGX2 doesn't have them, and is basically the same monitor.

Yes, it is attached by screws. The 20WMGX2 itself gets pretty hot as well.

I don't know why a monitor wouldn't be picked up by OSX though. Maybe you were missing drivers.

I live in Canada. In Canada, the only NEC distributor is Ingram Micro Canada, so wherever store you buy your monitor, it comes from Ingram Micro. Presently, all available 20WMGX2 are refurbished ones. Since they're discontinued, that's all we can get. They're selling for ~325$ CAD. The thing is, the warranty from NEC is only 1 year instead of 3, and that Ingram has about 90 in stock (white and black together) that are all refurbished unit.

When you see 1 or 10 refurbished unit, you say, ok, this monitor is still good, maybe there were a small amount of defective ones like in everything else. But when you see around 100 monitors that are refurbished, this looks quite like a major defective problem.

Are they actually refurbished or just unsold stock? That is surprising actually if they are refurbished and it doesn't sound like a very attractive option. But you might try one and if it doesn't turn out, try another monitor like the HP LP2065.

What do you think? Would you consider buying a 20WMGX2 for ~325$ USD (USD & CAD are about even), with only 1 year warranty, even if there's 100 of them that were defective?

I probably wouldn't bother. I would seek out an Apple Cinema 20" instead or just another bigger IPS LCD and pay more money.

The alternative monitor I've found, is the NEC MultiSync LCD2070WNX, which is ~380$ and is 10ms. Since the 20WMGX2's cheaper, and has a 6 ms refresh rate...

The main question is, do you have any experience with the LCD2070WNX and what would be better, a 380$ LCD2070WNX brand new with 3 years warranty or a 325$ refurbished 1 yars warranty 20WMGX2, which seems to have a manufacture problem because of the number of refurbished unit?

Thanks in advance,

The LCD2070WNX is TN so you may as well give the HP LP2065 a try, which is a 20.1" standard aspect monitor that has a good track record of being S-IPS. AMVA is also an option but yes both are at least better than most other LCDs at this size (this has been discussed numerous times).

I'm sorry that there aren't any VA/IPS 20-22" widescreens available (new) to suit you. The Samsung 215TW may have been suitable although it has a tad more input lag and it is also out of stock most of the time.

IMO (at least my more informed opinion today) 20" is a little small for widescreen but 22" and higher are better.

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: Mari0Br0s

Originally posted by: Cheex
@ xtknight:

What is your take on this monitor?
HANNS.G HG281DPB

I'm in search of the best 1920x1200 monitor under $600, mainly for gaming and, to a lesser extent, some movies.

http://necdisplay.com/Products...4c93-8243-938ad36dcea8

It's not a MultiSync, but still a good NEC.

Specs seem to suggest that it is a *VA panel, if so...then its a fast one @ 5ms.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cheex
@ xtknight:

What is your take on this monitor?
HANNS.G HG281DPB

I'm in search of the best 1920x1200 monitor under $600, mainly for gaming and, to a lesser extent, some movies.

Look no further than the ViewSonic VX2435wm ( $560 AR ): http://www.newegg.com/Product/...824116079&Tpk=vx2435wm

The BenQ FP241W is an option but it has some video card troubles: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...4133&Tpk=benq%2bfp241w

I don't know what has happened to the stock of the HP LP2465 lately.

24WMCX is a TN (viewing angles were quoted at contrast ratio>5:1).

 

[Mari0Br0s]

Ok, thank you very much xknight, it's really appreciated!

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Cheex
@ xtknight:

What is your take on this monitor?
HANNS.G HG281DPB

I'm in search of the best 1920x1200 monitor under $600, mainly for gaming and, to a lesser extent, some movies.

Look no further than the ViewSonic VX2435wm ( $560 AR ): http://www.newegg.com/Product/...824116079&Tpk=vx2435wm

The BenQ FP241W is an option but it has some video card troubles: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...4133&Tpk=benq%2bfp241w

I don't know what has happened to the stock of the HP LP2465 lately.

24WMCX is a TN (viewing angles were quoted at contrast ratio>5:1).

Aren't those response times slow for gaming?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cheex
Aren't those response times slow for gaming?

No. I suggest you read the OP. The response times rated rarely coincide with actual performance.

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Cheex
Aren't those response times slow for gaming?

No. I suggest you read the OP. The response times rated rarely coincide with actual performance.

I'm reviewing that now...lol.

I live in Jamaica so rebates don't apply for me. I have to pay full price.

The ViewSonic is for me $660 and the BenQ is $610.
These seem to be very good monitors but are also over my budget...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cheex

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Cheex
Aren't those response times slow for gaming?

No. I suggest you read the OP. The response times rated rarely coincide with actual performance.

I'm reviewing that now...lol.

I live in Jamaica so rebates don't apply for me. I have to pay full price.

The ViewSonic is for me $660 and the BenQ is $610.
These seem to be very good monitors but are also over my budget...

Then maybe the Samsung 245BW is the best choice. I can't think of any VA for under $600 that I'd be recommending.

 

[pcgamer321]

Originally posted by: starcycle

Originally posted by: pcgamer321

edit:

I found the <a target=_blank class=ftalternatingbarlinklarge href="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824176078&Tpk=HP%2
<b"><b">bw2007">HP w2007</a>
and this LG L206WTY which seems better.

Oh btw, I think my budget can go up to $300

the 206 has a faster response time, but it doesn't have 16.7 million colors, only 16.2. the human eye probably woulldn't be able to detect the difference, but that says to me that the panels are different, and that some image quality has probably been sacrificed for the extra couple of ms (which you probably won't notice, either ). and who knows, maybe there would be subtle differences in blacks, etc.

the w2007 is a really nice monitor, and I would have gone for it but it has the glossy screen. if that's not an issue for you, it would also be a good choice, imo.

glossy screen is no big deal. The Acer AL2051W that I had which I loved had glossy screen, but I gave it to my brother(regreat that now lol).
So that HP is the best 300 bucks can get me? Looks great!

 

[DoctorM]

Butaz: Nice find with those calibration profiles.
I disabled my custom settings, installed the profile for the vx2435wm and found their profile to be very similar to mine.

My Gammas were set with the monitor's brightness at 35. For theirs I needed to up it to 70 (which may be the monitor's factory default) but it seems to be about the same at that level.

I thought calibrations were influenced by the specific video card as well as monitor... meaning someone else's profile won't work for you even if you have the same monitor.

I'm just surprised that their profiles, while still ICM, require additional software to work, not just XP's Color Management.

 

[Mallomar]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Burn-in appears at a particular location on the screen only. The video card does not know it exists, because it is a problem on the monitor. When you take a screenshot you are only dumping the video card's memory. Therefore, it will only appear if you open it on the monitor in the same spot.

Yes I think you did the right thing by contacting NEC. They tend to have nice customer service so I wouldn't worry much.

I never realized a screen shot was a dump of the video card memory. Does that mean I could turn off the monitor right now, hit "print screen" and still have captured the display from the video card? (If a tree falls in the woods ...) I would try it, but I can't figure out how to turn off this monitor!

 

[darktiger]

I have two dell monitors the 1908FPc and the 1908FPt. What is the difference between these?

 

[krilonx]

Hi! Thank you for this great thread!

I'm considering as a buying option one of your recommended 19" LCDs, LG L1970HR, but I need to know if there is a difference between L1970HR and L1970HR-BF.

I can't find the answer, not even on LG website. There could be substantial differences, as I know. Anyway, it could mean black (color), different design (but I think it isn't this), different contrast, or even different panels. For example, I found out that Philips has two digits at the end of their model codes which can indicate different panels (TN, VA, etc.), something like 00, 05 or 10, but it isn't a rule. And it would be a question of luck to get the panel you like!

It's very difficult to understand model codification for each producer, but it?s very interesting. They keep it secret, as I can see.

And I need also to know if there could be problems with dead (sub)pixels, more than on other LCDs, but I suppose there aren't, as it is in your recommended ones.

I'll keep searching...

Thank you!

 

[ericac]

First off, I can't thank you enough for maintaining this post, it's quite a wealth of knowledge :thumbsup:

Now my question is that I am in the market for an LCD. I'm finally getting around to replacing a 21" Trinitron beast that has served me very very very well for 10+ yrs.
Here's what I'd use it for:
I am a programmer (lots of terminal windows & text to look at)
I do a fair amount of photo work (for web / personal use, nothing print quality)
I want a multimedia hub (console games)
watch movies
some limited PC gaming (mainly MMORPGs, no FPS)
my main computer is a MacPro (running OS 10.5 95% of the time, WinXP 5%)
This monitor will likely be mounted on a desk mount arm to easily adjust the viewing angle.

I think my budget is somewhere around $5-600, not too much more, and I'm looking at 24" or so. Maybe as low as 20", and probably not too bigger, because that money won't go much further!

So I think my two choices are Gateway FHD2400 and Dell 2407WFP-HC. I keep going back and forth. The Dell seems like the right choice, but then I've never had a LCD before (except a purely work machine) so I'm not sure how bad I'll think the ghosting would be. I can go look at the Gateway in my local Circuit City, but I'm not sure what to look for to clinch the decision...

Any advise would be most appreciated!
TIA

 

[Tasiin]

xtknight, do you think we've seen the last of good S-IPS displays in sizes below 26"? The increasing dominance of TN and VA panels has me disappointed to say the least, and I'm beginning to wonder if there will be any new LCDs within the next few years or so that will be anywhere near as good as some of the older 20" IPS screens, such as the 2007WFP or 20WMGX2.

When I returned my 20WMGX2 almost a year ago now and picked up a refurbished CRT, I (naively) thought there would be some progress in the LCD industry within the next few years or so, but so far that hasn't really been the case. I'm starting to wonder if I should chance the lottery for the HP LP2065 or Dell 2007FP/FPW and hope I get an S-IPS version that I can at least use as a secondary monitor for now, and then as a primary if my CRT ever dies.

 

[Nnyan]

Ok so so far I've tested (with spyder2) the following LCDs:

W2007
226BW
Soyo 24
FHD2400
L226WT
VX2255wmb

Not sure why but I left the viewsonic for last mostly b/c in my head I wanted to like one of the other monitors. Now this may not be for everyone but i'm very sensitive to refresh rate/lag (brightness/contrast whatever it is that bothers me) in LCDs. Playing games makes me dizzy after a few minutes to a few hours depending on the panel. II have to say that after having the viewsonic for almost a week now the VX2255wmb is quickly becoming my favorite. Colors look very good, not quite as vivid as other glossy screens but very nice. Playing crisis, TF2 and other fast action games and so far I have yet to feel dizzy. Everything looks really nice and the viewing angles are better then the Gateway. Backlight bleed is about average for a TN, a little worse then the samsung panels but not as bad as the Gateway, overall not a huge issue. I do miss the extra 2" of the 24" panels but again not a huge issue for my use. I'll have more time to spend with it this weekend and I'll make up my mind then, but so far so good.