[Retired] The LCD Thread

[jhcodafa]

Thank you for the reply and this wonderful guide, its probably the best on the net and deserves its own website. you are year ahead of cnet and other sites.

anyway

I read the issues concerning the VX2435wm from a customer on newegg.

Here is what it says:

"The lack of any apparent signal auto-detect. Mind you there are a lot of video source inputs and if multiple are going what should it do, but if there is only one active signal it should be able to auto-detect (you have to always manually set input via menu). Mac support is not great. The drivers on the CD are OS 9 only with no planned OS X support? Also powering up or coming out of sleep on my Mac Pro is annoying slow compared to a PC. It goes through several cycles of showing the screen then going to a ""no signal"" blue screen, then back, then back to the blue screen, then finally the desktop will show up (HDMI). In roughly a week I had a dead pixel show up. Also the back plastic panel that you have to remove to plug any chords into it is extremely poorly engineered. The thing took forever for me to get it off fearing I was going to break it, I cut myself on the sharp plastic edges, and I could not get it to go back on properly for the life of me. It's very awkward to manipulate. " http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824116079

as far as inputs for the NEC ( i wish it had hdmi ) but there is a vga adapter for xbox 360. I'm still looking at how I would get a good TV connection going.. one possibility i was thinking of is a TV TUNER. also do you know if the ghosting on the NEC affects movies or is it just games?

I'll look more into that HP you mentioned right now. Do you know of any other possibilities? when the new dell 24inch might come out?

Thank you for your time!

 

[gilli]

.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: jhcodafa
Hi, I'm looking for a full HD monitor (1080) around 24 inches.


Looking to use it mostly for PS CS3, hd movies, hd gamming (360), hd tv, and a little final cut.. in that order.

Here is what I'm looking at so far:

1.) NEC LCD2470WNX

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...ons-_-24002334

I own a 2470WNX, and XTKnight is right about the inputs; it has DVI-D (w/HDCP) and VGA only, so if you need the extras, this isn't the monitor for you.

PS CS3: Great for Photoshop and Illustrator because 1) viewing angles are better than my Dell VA at work so I don't have the color shift problem, 2) gradients and colors in general look great, and 3) I love being able to dock the tools palette on the left and the other palettes on the right and still have more space than I did on my 21" Trinitron.

HD Movies/TV: I have to admit I haven't watched any TV or movies, and probably won't. I have a Samsung 50" HD DLP for that. I did try 1920x1080 just to make sure it worked, and it did, with no banding or scaling problems.

Gaming: I've only played a few PC (and no console) games: COD 4, FarCry, FEAR, America's Army, and Rome Total War. They look great, and I do not notice any input lag even though tests reveal it is there; aiming, moving, reaction time, etc., in America's Army functions just like it always has, and I haven't had to adjust lead time or anything else to get headshots with sniper rifles, even on sprinting targets. I do not see ANY ghosting or smearing, but I DID see occasional flickering on open landscapes in FarCry. I never noticed it until Notnyt mentioned it in the Hard Forum thread; he claims its caused by ghosting and only happens when the frame rate dips below 60, but I didn't have a counter up at the time to confirm that.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

OK, I've already posted alot here on the 2470WNX, but since someone's asking and I've had a month to play with it, here is my honest opinion:

Pros
The usual NEC high quality and attention to detail: no dead/stuck pixels and no backlight bleeding; the panel looks completely uniform on the black BIOS and Windows startup screens for example. Colors are fantastic, blacks are great for an LCD, and graphics in general (Windows and games) are beautiful. Viewing angles and everything else are noticeably better than my Dell 19" (*VA) and ViewSonic 21" VP2130b (S-PVA). The ergonomics couldn't be better, including height and pivot. The OSD is easy to use and intuitive, and I like the NaviSet software because its nested in Windows Display Settings (no extra programs or services necessary) and has some neat but simple info, features, and test patterns to play with.

The NEC quality, top-of-class specs (brightness, contrast, response time, etc.), and relatively low input lag (see below) make it one of the top three 24s IMO; and of the other two, the best (NEC 2490) costs $400 more, and the other (BenQ FP241W, which has the same specs as 2470 but more inputs) has been discontinued.

Cons
DVI-D (HDCP) and VGA only, which is only a con if you require extras.

I see NO ghosting or smearing, but I have seen occasional flickering under certain conditions in FarCry (see above post). A poster at Hard OCP claims its caused by ghosting and happens when the frame rate drops below 60. I also found another issue, which may not be the monitor's fault: in Windows Vista, when I switch to certain DPI sizes and then increase/decrease font size, text takes on a slight red or green fringe over certain colored backgrounds. It only happens with a few DPI sizes (random ones like 107 or 113) and is only visible where aliasing is corrected, which indicates its a ClearType problem...but I don't remember it happening on the VP2130b.

Input lag: Compared to all other 24" non-TNs, including the mighty NEC 2490, the 2470 has the least possible lag for its class/size. I can't notice it in Windows or games, and it hasn't affected my score or ability in online games. However, I CAN tell the difference on my 21" Trinitron CRT when moving around on the desktop, and two posters at HardOCP claim they noticed the 2470 lag right out of the box. So I'm starting to think that 33ms on ANY $500+ monitor is unacceptable, and its a sad state of affairs when the "best" monitors in any class boast only 2 frames of lag. Even if you can afford the $1100 2490, the best 24" available, you still have to live with 2 frames of lag, which is bullsh@t. The Planar PX2611W, a wide-gamut IPS, is bigger (26") and faster (5ms), costs $300 less than the 2490 and only $150 more than the 2470, and has less than 1 frame of lag! This just proves that companies like Samsung and Dell are ripping us off by making us believe its f@cking NORMAL to spend $1000 on a high-end LCD and have to live with outrageous crap like inverse ghosting, panel lotteries, and horrible input lag.

If an off-brand like Planar can still make a decent, nearly lag-free IPS for only $850, then so can super-powers like NEC.

 

[MDDI]

xtknight, is the Eye One Display 2 worth twice the $$$ than the Huet Pro, if so, what are the differences?

 

[flexy]

i "studied" the reviews and tech babble on various sites incl. prad.de for some time, and for me it was REALLY hard to find a decent TN....one of the two TOP models i settled were the HP w2207h as well as the LG227WT. Both outstanding.

Howeverm the upcoming BenQ X2200W really caught my attention - aware that right now only the PR blahblah is available as well as ONE (!) review in Korean which give it a 9/10.

benQ praises this as the new "Hardcore Gamer" monitor with various new Gimmicks like "simulated pulse display" (means inserting of black frames between frames) and CLAIMING that this as well as other new techniques would totally elimate the "motion blur" effect EACH TN shows to a certain extent....and they say this monitor is as good as a CRT when it comes to all this, so on PAPER this seems to be the best gamer monitor.

So i ordered it. Monitor is not out yet...but is to be expected to be out in a week or two.

G.

 

[redlinez33]

I am starting to join the bandwagon for hating TN panels......

While the samsung 245BW isnt bad, and was the best 24" TN panel I have tried, it still isnt great.... Compared to my Samsung 971P (which had its own problems) the dark detail is pretty bad. I think prad agrees with me there (if i remember correctly)... I am hoping the Dell 2408WFP comes out soon cause I will order it soon as it does. Hopefully they fixed the ghosting problems they had with the 2407WFP. I miss PVA panels..

 

[Tasiin]

xtknight,

I think I've pretty much settled on trying either the 2007WFP or LP2065. I had one last question for you, though.

I was looking over the specs of the two displays, and I noticed that both of them should in theory be able to do 72Hz at their native resolution. The LP2065 has a maximum of a 92kHz horizontal scan rate over DVI, and 1600x1200 at 75Hz is 90kHz. The 2007WFP is limited to 81kHz, but 1680x1050 at 72Hz is about 78.3kHz.

Do you know if either of these monitors will really do higher refresh rates, or will they just do 60 and skip some frames like many other LCDs?

 

[Gordon Airporte]

Viewsonic VP930b vs. VP950b

I was seriously considering buying a pair of vp930b's, which I thought newegg carried, but now they only have vp950b's.
Is this an update of the model (bigger number and all) or a totally different technology? Prad.de only lists the 930. The price is about the same.

The stats listed for the 950 here
http://www.viewsonic.com/produ...lays/proseries/VP950b/
are 280cd/m, 800:1 / 2000:1 dynamic contrast and 5ms bwb / 2ms g2g response.

There's an Amazon review from a user of both panels that says the colors are much more saturated/vibrant on the 950, but that must be out-of-the-box because he didn't mention any calibration.

 

[redlinez33]

Viewing Angle 170º horizontal, 160º vertical = TN = not 8bit = not as good probably

 

[brencat]

Hi gang. After many months of looking out for a decent LCD, I believe the Planar PX2611W with its IPS panel and low lag is the closest thing I'm going to get to replicating the quality of my Iiyama Visionmaster Pro CRT for less than $1k.

My selection of B&M stores selling monitors is pretty lame near where I live in central NJ, so I'll likely be buying this sight-unseen. What are the top internet retailers for monitors with decent stuck pixel return policies? Newegg's policy isn't that great, and resellerrating.com's feedback of cdw.com is pretty bad too.

Thanks in advance, B.

 

[Engraver]

Originally posted by: brencat
Hi gang. After many months of looking out for a decent LCD, I believe the Planar PX2611W with its IPS panel and low lag is the closest thing I'm going to get to replicating the quality of my Iiyama Visionmaster Pro CRT for less than $1k.

My selection of B&M stores selling monitors is pretty lame near where I live in central NJ, so I'll likely be buying this sight-unseen. What are the top internet retailers for monitors with decent stuck pixel return policies? Newegg's policy isn't that great, and resellerrating.com's feedback of cdw.com is pretty bad too.

Thanks in advance, B.

I've had the PX2611 for almost two weeks now, and after some exchanges am satisfied with it. The first unit came with two stuck pixels near the center. Planar's unresponsive pixel policy is 3 stuck/dead pixels, but if they are near the center they'll exchange it anyways (only if you can send them a picture showing how far from the center they are).

My first replacement was a horribly defective refurbished unit with a bright patch in the center along with an even larger patch of stuck red pixels. After sending more pictures and making more phone calls, one of the techs told me he'd transfer me to his supervisor so I could further describe the problem. It was about 4:30pm CST, and instead of getting the supervisor, I got the same tech telling me the supervisor was out the door already and told him to send me a brand new unit.

Fast forward to today, I have my new monitor that has no dead/stuck pixels and uniform backlighting.

Cliffs:
Planar PX2611W is a pretty good monitor for the price
Planar seems to have poor quality control
If you call late in the day, lazy supervisor is more likely to give you a new unit vs. refurb


A couple more things:
I bought mine through Amazon.com so I could have 30 days to return it if necessary.
All exchanges were done with Planar's advance exchange program (putting hold on your credit card and shipping replacement first).

 

[brencat]

Thank you Engraver for the quick response. I called Planar directly before I read your post and was fairly satisfied with their exchange policy. They also told me point blank all items sold from their online store are new -- no returns or refurbished units. I like the low input lag and the fact it is an IPS panel. Uses will be at least 75% gaming, the rest for photos (wife's hobby) and office work. I'm a bit concerned though at your observation of lack of quality control. $900 is a lot of money either way.

Wondering now if I should hedge a bit and consider the LG L245WP or NEC 2470WNX as cheaper PVA alternatives. But it doesn't seem like the NEC is good value for the money when I can get the IPS Planar for only ~ $150 more. The dilemna here seems to be "relative value". What do you think?

 

[zod96]

What would be easier to read text and see icons on? A 22 inch widescreen LCD with a 1680x1050 resolution or a 19 inch widescreen with a 1440x900 resolution?

 

[dragon57]

The 22". Use the calculator here to get the sizes: http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html

 

[zod96]

Ok but as far as stress on your video card, the 19 inch at 1440x900 would put far less stress on it than the 22 inch at 1680x1050? I did the calculator thing and 1680x1050 on a 22 inch is 90 PPI and the 1440x900 on a 19 inch is 89 PPI, so their's not that much difference...

 

[dragon57]

A smaller res will always require less video card horsepower, however if you will be driving the lcd with the system spec'ed in your signature, you will not have any problems with 1680x1050. You could easily drive a 1920x1080 res with that video card.

 

[zod96]

Aw ok got it thanks dragon...I'll goto circuit city tomorrow and take a look at the samsung 2232GW ...

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: Gordon Airporte
Viewsonic VP930b vs. VP950b

I was seriously considering buying a pair of vp930b's, which I thought newegg carried, but now they only have vp950b's.
Is this an update of the model (bigger number and all) or a totally different technology? Prad.de only lists the 930. The price is about the same.

The stats listed for the 950 here
http://www.viewsonic.com/produ...lays/proseries/VP950b/
are 280cd/m, 800:1 / 2000:1 dynamic contrast and 5ms bwb / 2ms g2g response.

There's an Amazon review from a user of both panels that says the colors are much more saturated/vibrant on the 950, but that must be out-of-the-box because he didn't mention any calibration.

The VP930b is a P-MVA with standard color gamut. Until a couple of weeks ago, the Pro Series included 3 MVAs/PVAs: VP930b 19", the VP2030b 20", and the VP2130b 21". The VP950b and VP2250b are brand new; they're TN panels, but also have wide gamut, which is why they look more saturated.

So basically, the VP930 has better viewing angles, is brighter, and has better contrast (1300:1 instead of the 2000:1 "dynamic contrast" for the VP950). The VP950 is faster and has a wide color gamut (98% NTSC), but will be worse in every other way.

Unless you need the wide gamut, the VP930b is probably better.

 

[muppet22]

nice posts xtknight. i have a question on what monitor i should buy.

currently i have a Samsung 906BW (19" wide) and it just isn't big enough. i'm looking to get something in the range of 24" to 30", and i'll be using this monitor for gaming and watching movies. i noticed there was no "hardcore gamer and movie watcher" category..so i was wondering what you would recommend.

i really dislike backlight bleeding, because it really ruins the movie-watching experience for me. i also dislike how the image loses contrast if i move my head a little to the left or right. so far it seems the 3007WFP-HC is my best option. however, i am a bit concerned that you can only adjust the brightness on the monitor. is this a problem though? i can use an external program (ie powerstrip) to adjust the RGB, temperature, gamma, brightness and contrast. i am content with only a DVI-D input..

i was also looking at the NEC WUXi's but they are a bit pricey and unfortunately have a higher response time + lag.

any reason why the Dell 3008WFP isn't on your lists?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

Originally posted by: muppet22
i noticed there was no "hardcore gamer and movie watcher" category..so i was wondering what you would recommend.

He does have a "Multimedia" category. A quick look shows that at least 3 monitors are recommended for both Gaming and Multimedia:

- Planar PX2611W 26"

- Gateway FHD2400 24"

- LG Flatron L1970HR 19"

There may be others listed in both categories, but not the NEC UXis (which as you mentioned is probably due to the average response time + input lag).

 

[zod96]

So if you had bad eye sight, would you choose a 19 inch 1440x900 or a 22 inch 1680x1050?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jhcodafa



Thank you for the reply and this wonderful guide, its probably the best on the net and deserves its own website. you are year ahead of cnet and other sites.

anyway

I read the issues concerning the VX2435wm from a customer on newegg.

Here is what it says:

"The lack of any apparent signal auto-detect. Mind you there are a lot of video source inputs and if multiple are going what should it do, but if there is only one active signal it should be able to auto-detect (you have to always manually set input via menu). Mac support is not great. The drivers on the CD are OS 9 only with no planned OS X support? Also powering up or coming out of sleep on my Mac Pro is annoying slow compared to a PC. It goes through several cycles of showing the screen then going to a ""no signal"" blue screen, then back, then back to the blue screen, then finally the desktop will show up (HDMI). In roughly a week I had a dead pixel show up. Also the back plastic panel that you have to remove to plug any chords into it is extremely poorly engineered. The thing took forever for me to get it off fearing I was going to break it, I cut myself on the sharp plastic edges, and I could not get it to go back on properly for the life of me. It's very awkward to manipulate. " http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824116079

He mentions drivers but I don't think you need monitor drivers even for a Mac.

The only thing the drivers contain are frequency ranges (which should be auto-detected on a brand spankin' new OS X anyway). They also contain an ICC profile which should be available in the Windows drivers if you can't unpack it out of OS9 drivers somehow. The ICC profile doesn't actually do anything other than tell Photoshop the gamut of your monitor.

Signal auto-detect can be controlled thru OSD? DoctorM, et al (VX2435 owners) can you confirm this?

as far as inputs for the NEC ( i wish it had hdmi ) but there is a vga adapter for xbox 360. I'm still looking at how I would get a good TV connection going.. one possibility i was thinking of is a TV TUNER. also do you know if the ghosting on the NEC affects movies or is it just games?

A PCI TV tuner is probably the best idea. Some HDTV PCI tuners also have dedicated DVI or VGA out through a daughterboard.

Ghosting affects the screen in general. The screen doesn't know the content type being played, it just sees a matrix of pixels.

Anyway, I don't think the ghosting will affect you at all. Maybe if you're extremely sensitive to it, but I doubt I would be annoyed by it personally. It's just another one of those small imperfections.

I'll look more into that HP you mentioned right now. Do you know of any other possibilities? when the new dell 24inch might come out?

Thank you for your time!

Not at the moment.

 

[zod96]

Does anyone know if the samsung 2232GW can do 75hz at 1680x1050? I can't seem to find any info on that...

 

[redlinez33]

Most likely not? LCDs are typically 60hz. Why do you want 75Hz?