[Retired] The LCD Thread

[zod96]

The first one I am sending backing has a nice hair stuck in the middle of the screen and about 10 stuck pixels. It figures I pay the $50 for the cross ship and the lcd is worse than the first one, my luck. I have to call nec support tomorrow and see what they can do...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: j0j081

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: j0j081
I would get the Samsung 226bw or 2232bw despite the panel lottery. The 2232bws are calibrated pretty nicely no matter what version you get but there is a bit more input lag than the 226bw. the 226bw is soon going to be replaced by the 2253bw though so you might want to wait for that. it should be out any time now. all the Samsung's I mentioned are just about the best tns for gaming.

Sorry, but from what I can tell this simply isn't true.

They have equal response time, but the CMO panel has quite a distinct blue color cast and lower color accuracy (and, so far the AUO North America model has not been tested).

To make response time the same they actually slowed down the S panel! I think the RTC errors are gone on the C panel, though.

Whether or not with the blue cast the CMO 2232BW is superior to other 22"s, I don't really know. But the 2232BW panels are still very different color-wise. I believe the 2232BW is AUO in North America and this hasn't been tested as stated earlier so it's anyone's guess as to how it performs.

I'm really waiting for more solid reviews of this LCD (the CMO/AUO panels) before I put it on my list. Hopefully the 2253BW will be better and S-panel only, but no one knows. Till then I'll be sticking with the trusty ViewSonic VX2255wmb.

My list would be full of Samsungs if only they'd stick with the S panels. The 226BW and 2232BW S panels are easily best in industry in almost every aspect, it's just a shame they have to ruin it for everyone else who gets a CMO.

The 2232BW I am testing now has a CMO panel. I did notice the blue dominance shortly after first using it however it wasn't as bad as on the 226bw I once tested with a CMO panel. I would assume you have seen this review specifically of the CMO version.

http://translate.google.com/tr...%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*

they have a color profile on the right of that page and after installing it the colors of this 2232bw very closely resemble those on my old 931BW S Panel. I wasn't aware the 2232BW even had an A panel. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere I've been doing my research. Maybe the Viewsonic you speak of is safer to go with but I don't think there is anything wrong with getting a Samsung from a store you can easily return it at if it doesn't suit you.

From what I've been reading the intitial shipments of Samsung lcds are always S panels because to begin with they are made in Korea. Apparently though, because they cost so much to manufacturer in Korea if all the panels were to be made there the price of these lcds would have to be at least doubled. That is why they have to outsource to places with cheaper labor. I guess if you could be one of the first people to buy a 2253BW when it hits stores you would almost certainly get an S panel. I am thinking of doing that myself.

Thanks, I actually hadn't seen that link. I didn't realize it was on their French site only.

I also found a review on thg.ru. I don't know what panel it actually is.

http://64.233.179.104/translat...samsung__2232bw_1.html

The VX2255wm still seems like a solid choice, at least. I'm not sure I believe the uniformity measurements there (my L226WT doesn't seem that bad subjectively and the VX2255 got better on PRAD).

The Acer P223W actually will be added to my list due to its excellent image quality results (high contrast, good default deltaE, good uniformity). Response time wasn't too bad, as it probably doesn't even use overdrive. The L226WT has about the same and I thought it was fine for gaming.

I guess I will put the 2232BW up. It is good in every area but that blue tint problem, which can be remedied in a couple ways.

The excellent Iiyama will be added for the sake of foreign users.

Maybe BenQ G2400 as well.

(These changes will probably be committed over the weekend.)

 

[zod96]

Anyone know how good or bad the HP W2207 is?

 

[dragon57]

Originally posted by: zod96
Anyone know how good or bad the HP W2207 is?

I bought a W2207 a couple of weeks ago. I searched around local stores until I found one with a Samsung panel.

Once I got it calibrated to my liking, I am very happy with it. I have no dead pixels and no backlight bleed to speak of. The ability to adjust it like it allows plus pivot to portrait mode is just great.

Yes, it is a TN, but I am not sorry I bought it. Your mileage may vary .

 

[Buck Armstrong]

I just spent a few hours playing Rome Total War on the Planar 26", and words just cannot describe the difference between this display and the 2470WNX and VP2130b, or any other VA (and remember how happy I was with the 2470, so thats saying alot). The 3D strategy map is so much more rich, vibrant, and alive, and there is NO shifting of color or contrast from one side of the screen to the other. On the PVAs, trees, grass, water, etc. was darker in the center of the screen and lighter on the edges. Dark areas that were featureless black blobs when viewed straight-on are now full of detail and you can tell the darkest grays from black. And maybe its the wide gamut, but I'm seeing colors I never saw before in this game.

Its as good or better than the 21" Trinitron I've been trying to replace. In fact, as far as I'm concerned, its the new 20WMGX2: the image quality of a pro IPS with the speed and low lag of a gaming TN.

If this thing had boobs, I'd marry it.

 

[ericinho]

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: ericinho
hello all,

What a wonderful thread this is!

I have a short and probably stupid question...

Dell sells 2 24" screens, the DELL E248WFP and the DELL Ultrasharp 2408WFP. Apart from that the first is much cheaper, i can't really find a good comparrison (they both list different tech aspects: http://accessories.us.dell.com...ategory_id=6761&~ck=bt ).

Anyone who could explain why the one is much more expensive and possibly better than the other one?

Cheers!

E248WFP: panel: TN; inputs: vga, dvi-d;
2408WFP: panel: S-PVA; inputs: vga, dvi-d, s-video, composite, component, hdmi, displayport, 4x usb, 9-in-2 media card reader; overdrive, pic-in-pic

and i think the 2408wfp has a higher contrast ratio

Okay, so since the E248WFP is a TN, i probably should stay far from it?

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: j0j081

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: j0j081
I would get the Samsung 226bw or 2232bw despite the panel lottery. The 2232bws are calibrated pretty nicely no matter what version you get but there is a bit more input lag than the 226bw. the 226bw is soon going to be replaced by the 2253bw though so you might want to wait for that. it should be out any time now. all the Samsung's I mentioned are just about the best tns for gaming.

Sorry, but from what I can tell this simply isn't true.

They have equal response time, but the CMO panel has quite a distinct blue color cast and lower color accuracy (and, so far the AUO North America model has not been tested).

To make response time the same they actually slowed down the S panel! I think the RTC errors are gone on the C panel, though.

Whether or not with the blue cast the CMO 2232BW is superior to other 22"s, I don't really know. But the 2232BW panels are still very different color-wise. I believe the 2232BW is AUO in North America and this hasn't been tested as stated earlier so it's anyone's guess as to how it performs.

I'm really waiting for more solid reviews of this LCD (the CMO/AUO panels) before I put it on my list. Hopefully the 2253BW will be better and S-panel only, but no one knows. Till then I'll be sticking with the trusty ViewSonic VX2255wmb.

My list would be full of Samsungs if only they'd stick with the S panels. The 226BW and 2232BW S panels are easily best in industry in almost every aspect, it's just a shame they have to ruin it for everyone else who gets a CMO.

The 2232BW I am testing now has a CMO panel. I did notice the blue dominance shortly after first using it however it wasn't as bad as on the 226bw I once tested with a CMO panel. I would assume you have seen this review specifically of the CMO version.

http://translate.google.com/tr...%26rls%3Dcom.microsoft:*

they have a color profile on the right of that page and after installing it the colors of this 2232bw very closely resemble those on my old 931BW S Panel. I wasn't aware the 2232BW even had an A panel. I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere I've been doing my research. Maybe the Viewsonic you speak of is safer to go with but I don't think there is anything wrong with getting a Samsung from a store you can easily return it at if it doesn't suit you.

From what I've been reading the intitial shipments of Samsung lcds are always S panels because to begin with they are made in Korea. Apparently though, because they cost so much to manufacturer in Korea if all the panels were to be made there the price of these lcds would have to be at least doubled. That is why they have to outsource to places with cheaper labor. I guess if you could be one of the first people to buy a 2253BW when it hits stores you would almost certainly get an S panel. I am thinking of doing that myself.

Thanks, I actually hadn't seen that link. I didn't realize it was on their French site only.

I also found a review on thg.ru. I don't know what panel it actually is.

http://64.233.179.104/translat...samsung__2232bw_1.html

The VX2255wm still seems like a solid choice, at least. I'm not sure I believe the uniformity measurements there (my L226WT doesn't seem that bad subjectively and the VX2255 got better on PRAD).

The Acer P223W actually will be added to my list due to its excellent image quality results (high contrast, good default deltaE, good uniformity). Response time wasn't too bad, as it probably doesn't even use overdrive. The L226WT has about the same and I thought it was fine for gaming.

I guess I will put the 2232BW up. It is good in every area but that blue tint problem, which can be remedied in a couple ways.

The excellent Iiyama will be added for the sake of foreign users.

Maybe BenQ G2400 as well.

(These changes will probably be committed over the weekend.)

Best Buy Business is now listing the 2253BW and saying it will ship within a week. That probably means retail stores will have it around then or shortly after to. I think I'm gonna do what I said and trade the 2232BW for it. Perhaps the 2253BW will be as good as the 226BW regarding input lag, have the slightly better specs of the 2232s, and the design looks pretty cool to. Nothing is wrong with my 2232BW but seems dumb to keep it with a new model coming out and the very good chane of getting an S panel for a change.

 

[jsrhino]

Thanks everyone for all the great input on the different models. Does anyone have recommendations for websites that describe tests to put a new LCD through? I have tried lcdresource.com, but everytime it seems like that website is down.

 

[MIDIman]

All...firstly, thank you for this thread!

I received a 2208WFP for work and its not going to cut it. The biggest issue appears to be response time giving me serious eye strain, but I've also noticed massive gradients in color where there should be none.

I need a "similarly" priced monitor that's going to fix the above two issues - no more than say $150 at the most. What's the cheapest I can go?

At this point, I'm willing to sacrifice resolution for somethjing else. Since this is work, it needs to be available via Dell or HP.


I do all forms of multimedia - seriously long hours of coding (thus a need for resolution), pixel perfect drawing, and printer color-matching. No video and no gaming, but obviously my eyes are sensitive to response time.

Thanks again...

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: ericinho

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: ericinho
hello all,

What a wonderful thread this is!

I have a short and probably stupid question...

Dell sells 2 24" screens, the DELL E248WFP and the DELL Ultrasharp 2408WFP. Apart from that the first is much cheaper, i can't really find a good comparrison (they both list different tech aspects: http://accessories.us.dell.com...ategory_id=6761&~ck=bt ).

Anyone who could explain why the one is much more expensive and possibly better than the other one?

Cheers!

E248WFP: panel: TN; inputs: vga, dvi-d;
2408WFP: panel: S-PVA; inputs: vga, dvi-d, s-video, composite, component, hdmi, displayport, 4x usb, 9-in-2 media card reader; overdrive, pic-in-pic

and i think the 2408wfp has a higher contrast ratio

Okay, so since the E248WFP is a TN, i probably should stay far from it?

yes

 

[MIDIman]

Update...apparently they're talking directly with Dell to make sure to get me an S-IPS panel - a 2007wfp - but there's no guarantee that this will happen.

Question - if I had the choice to pick one single IPS-based panel for under $500, what would it be?

 

[Gordon Airporte]

Originally posted by: MIDImanQuestion - if I had the choice to pick one single IPS-based panel for under $500, what would it be?

I did a lot of research and I don't recall any IPS panels under $500 that weren't lotteries. I chose the HP LP2065 because they have been consistently manufacturing and shipping S-IPS panels since May of last year. I ordered from a big online store with lots of inventory movement (and a good reputation: newegg), figuring this would ensure a newer monitor. It worked.
I also wanted an anti-glare coating because the glare on the iMac I use at work (glass surface) makes room lighting kind of a hassle - and that's with no windows in the room.

At 1600x1200, 5:4 monitors have the most pixels total of anything under 24" (1920x1200). Their physical width is very close to that of a 20" wide, which might more accurately be called a '20" shallow ' since they have 150 fewer vertical pixels and only 80 more horizontal.

The potential downside is they have the most pixels per inch of (almost) anything, which makes text smaller. That can be compensated for in your display and OS settings, however, although I haven't felt the need to so I'm not sure how well it works.

 

[MIDIman]

The "LG L206WTQ-BF" has been brought to light. I can't find any reviews at all on it. Anyone know anything about it?

Otherwise I'm going to ask for the HP 2065 and hope for the best.

 

[imported_elwood]

Where's the 22" monitors? Are they no decent 22" gaming monitors? I'm thinking about getting a 245BW but with many talking about the color shifting i'm not so sure i want to spend $450 on a monitor like that. Any other suggestions for a gaming monitor in the $400 range?

 

[Gordon Airporte]

Originally posted by: elwood
Where's the 22" monitors? Are they no decent 22" gaming monitors?

These will all be worth considering: http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...ers-guide/gamer22.html

Since most 22" monitors are TN panels they automatically have better response times, but you have to accept the color shift weirdness if those extra milliseconds are important to you.

 

[Tasiin]

Well, my 2007WFP (S-IPS, thankfully) came in today. Not quite sure what to think yet. It's not horrible, but it definitely has a few problems.

The coating is much stronger than I would have thought. I'm not sure why they felt the need to go so overboard with it. I have an LCD here with much milder anti-glare that seems just as effective at filtering out glare, but it does so without making everything look dusty. Does anyone happen to know what the LP2065's coating is like? Is it this strong?

It's also flickering quite noticeably on certain colors (mostly gray), more than my 20WMGX2 did I believe. This alone is probably the biggest problem I have with it, because ironically enough it's flickering just as much -- if not more -- than my CRT does on some colors.

Response time is also much poorer than I would have expected, but I didn't really buy it to play too many games.

I'm going to use it for a couple of days and see how it goes. Even if I don't like it, I don't know what other options I have. It seems as if all of the 20" IPS panels suffer from the flickering issue, so I'm not sure what else I could possibly try.

By the way, does anyone know whether it's possible to enable ClearType on only one display? It improves text quality significantly on the 2007WFP, but it looks terrible on my CRT.

 

[zod96]

Yeah I noticed that flicker with my 20wmgx2 when scrolling web pages. With this HP W2207 I'm using now its not their. In fact I like this HP so much I might keep it. It has no blue ting like the samsung 2232GW did, the text seems to be as sharp as my nec 20 wmgx2, and the blacks are really blacks. The nec is slightly brighter. The hp has slight backlight bleed on the bottom on just about half the screen. On the samsung it was both top and bottom. And I know this is a 6 bit LCD but having this next to my nec running dual lcd's and the same wallpaper, I honestly could not tell a difference between an 8 bit and 6 bit. I mean if I didn't know either of these monitors specs, it would be a 50/50 chance for me to choose the 8 bit over the 6 bit, and even then it would be a total guess. What's funny is a friend came over and I asked him which picture looks better on display, and he choose the hp 6 bit over the 8 bit nec. Maybe I just don't have it calibrated right. I got the Hp W2207 at staples for $300...

 

[Tasiin]

Yeah, I saw that particular problem when scrolling on my 20WMGX2 as well, but the Dell seems to be free of it. It just flickers constantly. The NEC did as well on grayish colors, but I seem to recall that I had to lower the brightness a bit before it became noticeable. It was immediately evident on the Dell at the default 50 brightness.

Interesting that your friend actually preferred the TN, especially since both screens are glossy. I'm actually finding my (very old) 15" TN to be easier on my eyes than either my CRT or the Dell, just as I did with the 20WMGX2.

 

[Trean]

Originally posted by: KenSings

Originally posted by: KenSings

Again, many thanks for this forum and the recommendations.

Got my ViewSonic VX2435WM - looks great. Love it. No noticable problems, except it's so stinkin' bright that if I use it at night, it burns my "visual purple" so much that I can't find my way upstairs in the dark afterwards.

2)
Second question, perhaps a little off topic for this forum, but still - I'm hoping one of you can help me with this mystery. When I use this monitor via HMDI directly from my video card, there is about a 1 inch perimeter around the screen that is missing. That is, the "start menu" and windows taskbar and such aren't even visible! The corners are missing - They're off the screen. This happens regardless of any monitor settings (scaling, etc), and regardless of what resolution I use. Examples: If I set scaling to 1:1, (and computer to the monitor's native 1920x1200) I see black border all the way around the screen including where the task bar should be (not just top and bottom!). If I use the monitor's full screen scaling (not 1:1), it now fills the monitor, but the windows taskbar is off the screen too - in other words, the same thing, just larger. Now, if I use the DVI-I out, with a DVI->HMDI adapter, everything works fine at all resolutions. So I belive the problem is in the computer /graphics / Windoze Vista, not in the monitor. I'd really appreciate help, because I intend to use a second montior (CRT) hooked up to teh DVI-I port, meaning I have to get this ViewSonic working with the HDMI port. I've tried web searches, but haven't found any mention of similar issues.

Here's the setup details:

HP computer, Windoze Vista, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS,
HDMI out -> ViewSonic HDMI in
can't see the edges of screen area on all four sides of screen, can't even see taskbar

HP computer, Windoze Vista, NVIDIA GeForce 8400GS,
DVI-I out -> DVI to HDMI adapter -> ViewSonic HDMI in
everything is fine.

Here's an update - thanks for your replies and thoughts xlknight, Trean, DoctorM, and cboath.

It's definitely an NVidia driver thing - HP sent me a default driver, and while this makes the moniotr/video card work fine together via HDMI, it doesn't use any advanced video capabilites, so even simple animated Yahoo ads have flickering, etc. Not a good solution. Upon reinstalling the NVidia driver, the problem returns (as always, a problem is hwen using HDMI port; the DVI-I to HDMI to monitor is fine). So I've reported the problem on the NVidia feedback site, and I suspect I'm pretty much screwed - I don't expect NVidia to publish a fixed driver on my behalf. I don't understand why they haven't had a ton of complaints from other Vista users, however - perhaps very few are going HDMI to HDMI. If I really want to use two monitors (the VX2435WM plus a CRT), I suppose I'll have to just buy a different video card that has dual DVI-I outputs or a DVI-I and a VGA. Any recommendations? I don't need super-fast performance, just using photo editing. Looks like the NVidia 8600 has two DVI-I outs, but at this point I'm disinclined to go with NVidia!

Anyway, thanks for the help - I'll post again if either HP or NVidia comes up with a solution, although I'm not optimistic.

Cheers.

First, get a hold of NVidia personally and see if they know about such a driver issue; if they due see if a fix is in the process of being implemented or is implemented in a beta driver or an alpha driver or what not.

Second, NVidia is releasing their 9000 series cards sometime soon, some may be dwindling out this week. This will knock the prices of the 8000 series down more than they already are so I would wait for that to happen if you go the new GPU route.

 

[muppet22]

9600 gt 512mb is out

 

[Liran xD]

Originally posted by: dragon57

Originally posted by: Liran xD
Hello

I'm interested at a 22" monitor but before I even go to specific model I know all of them are TN and therefore have narrow viewing angles
this can be quite a problem for me and I wanted to ask - how serious is the problem of the angles?
I tried getting this information from reviews but it wasn't that clear
I watch videos from my bed and I took a picture as the camera stands where my head is supposed to be
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6452/dsc00778zb2.jpg
(the red box is probably where the LCD will be..the CRT just too thick to fit in there P: )
Do you think I'll have a problem watching movies on a 22" TN panel from that angle ?
If the picture is not informative enough tell me from where to take another one

Thanks in advanced,
Liran.

If you have the room to rotate the lcd to be straight on to your plane of viewing, you should be fine. If you plan to only have the lcd to be parallel to the front edge of your desk and can't/won't rotate it, then yes, you will have a problem in my opinion.

Try to get a 22" model that has the ability to tilt/rotate/etc similar to the HP W2207 I bought. It has quite a bit of flexibility in positioning.

I didn't make myself clear enough p:
I was asking if the heights differences between my bed to the screen will be a problem as in TN panel..I mean I can put the new LCD where the CRT stands now in the picture..the question is if there will be problems with the picture in that state

xtknight I saw your reply too..thanks both.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Liran xD

Originally posted by: dragon57

Originally posted by: Liran xD
Hello

I'm interested at a 22" monitor but before I even go to specific model I know all of them are TN and therefore have narrow viewing angles
this can be quite a problem for me and I wanted to ask - how serious is the problem of the angles?
I tried getting this information from reviews but it wasn't that clear
I watch videos from my bed and I took a picture as the camera stands where my head is supposed to be
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6452/dsc00778zb2.jpg
(the red box is probably where the LCD will be..the CRT just too thick to fit in there P: )
Do you think I'll have a problem watching movies on a 22" TN panel from that angle ?
If the picture is not informative enough tell me from where to take another one

Thanks in advanced,
Liran.

If you have the room to rotate the lcd to be straight on to your plane of viewing, you should be fine. If you plan to only have the lcd to be parallel to the front edge of your desk and can't/won't rotate it, then yes, you will have a problem in my opinion.

Try to get a 22" model that has the ability to tilt/rotate/etc similar to the HP W2207 I bought. It has quite a bit of flexibility in positioning.

I didn't make myself clear enough p:
I was asking if the heights differences between my bed to the screen will be a problem as in TN panel..I mean I can put the new LCD where the CRT stands now in the picture..the question is if there will be problems with the picture in that state

xtknight I saw your reply too..thanks both.

Well I'm not quite sure what you mean. The height itself isn't really the problem, it's getting the display to fully be in the field of view of your eyes (since TNs only appear good when you're looking STRAIGHT at them). The farther away you are from a display, the less bright it seems, but distance does not change viewing angles. So you could mount this thing 5 feet high and as long as the whole display was in your eye's field of view and the LCD was tilted properly, you'd be able to see the whole thing just fine. (Well aside from the fact of course that text would be small from ~5 feet away.)

 

[zod96]

I just picked up my Hp w2207 for $309 from circuit city. These LCD is great, no dead or stuck pixels, no backlight bleeding and settings were great right out of the box. I got the MT22OWW01-V1 panel. Blacks look excellent of this lcd. Fired up some games and no ghosting or blurring at all, but I use vsync so that probably helps. Overall very very impressed with it considering its a 6 bit panel. Even the view angles aren't that bad. I have an old nec 20wmgx2 which is an 8 bit panel, and although its colors are better than the hp's, they aren't leaps and bounds better. Text is just as sharp on the HP as it is on the 20wmgx2. My only gripe is the stand, its rather bulky and large, I can't push it back to far on my desk because my desk has a back to it, so my lcd has to sit a tad to close to me, but I can live with it.Two thumbs up for this HP LCD

 

[Liran xD]

@xtknight
lol yes of course..from that distance I'm only watching movies
well I think I'll go for the ASUS MW221C
Thanks

 

[farmpuma]

Originally posted by: KenSings
Now, if I use the DVI-I out, with a DVI->HMDI adapter, everything works fine at all resolutions. So I belive the problem is in the computer /graphics / Windoze Vista, not in the monitor. I'd really appreciate help, because I intend to use a second montior (CRT) hooked up to teh DVI-I port, meaning I have to get this ViewSonic working with the HDMI port.

What CRT monitor do you have that uses a DVI input? By their nature a CRT is an analog device and it's unlikely the DAC chip in such a monitor would be any better than the one on your 8400GS. So, you would gain nothing by running anything but vga (analog D-sub) to your CRT.

What 8400GS are you using? All the ones listed on Newegg have at most one DVI, one VGA (D-sub), and one S-video port. Are you getting your port types confused?