[Retired] The LCD Thread

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xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: DangerDave
xtknight, have you heard of the Velocity Micro W220? I like this lcd particularly because it's made of non junky plastic materials. The only other aluminum lcd I know of is the Apple one. I couldn't find a review of it anywhere btw.

Sorry, I don't know anything about it, other than it is a TN display.

A couple favorable user reviews here: http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd...ctDetail.do?oid=188293

Originally posted by: tjpark1111
what glossy screens are out there besides the HP and Gateway models?

Sony and NEC used to have some. The Apple iMacs are glossy.

Acer's P223WWd is glossy. I don't really know any others off the top of my head. Anything you are looking for, in particular?

Some tests of the P223 here: http://thg.ru/display/22_lcd_monitor_2008/index.html

Originally posted by: MR STROKE
Thank you Xtknight for a great thread,I have been lurking in this thread for awhile and found this extremely helpfull. good work!
I have been searching for about 3 weeks for a solid monitor after returning my Hp2207(hated the glossy screen after a couple of days) and took your advice on the Samsung 245bw under the gaming monitor section. I have had the Samsung for 3 days now and love it so far, really good for a TN monitor and much better than the 2207.

Good to hear.

Originally posted by: SSJGouKi
Has anyone heard about the vw222u from ASUS? I can't find any reviews on the net about it. Specifically i really want to know if vw222u compares with the Samsung 206bw. They both are nearly the same price except the asus is 22" while the samsung is only 20", other then that i can't really find any difference! Thx for any info!

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824236028

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...E16824001095&Tpk=206bw

Unless there's a good reason to go with either of these models I'd just stick with the ones in OP.

The 206BW is a panel lottery, and certain panels have response time issues.
The VW222u I don't know about.
 

albovin

Member
Jan 15, 2008
33
0
0
Dear xtknight,
Thank you for the excellent review of the NEC 2690WUXi. That's an amazing monitor.

Also, I would like to offer a review of the new Dell 2408.

I found about the Dell 2408 that HDMI input is not suitable for the Full HD (overscan, cropping). Same problem confirmed for the BenQ 241W, Dell 3008.

But the Dell 2408 has extra two DVI inputs that work excellent for 1080p - 100% correct format.
In the view of this fact, IMO monitors with just one digital input in the form of HDMI (ViewSonic VX2435WM) may be disqualified as multimedia monitors unless there is a proper test to guarantee 100% support of 1080p format.
What is your opinion?
Thank you.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
Originally posted by: ericinho
Sorry to trouble you

But if I would have to choose between the Dell 2408WFP and the NEC MultiSync® LCD2470WNX (prices are more or less the same) considering what I need it primarily for...
which one would you advice me to choose and more importantly... why?

Thanks!

Considering the 2408WFP is wide gamut, the MultiSync LCD2470WNX is probably a much better choice for editing conventional sRGB photos. Very few people use Adobe RGB, and if you did you'd know it.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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Originally posted by: albovin
Dear xtknight,
Thank you for the excellent review of the http://xtknight.987mb.com/lcd26/">NEC 2690WUXi</a>. That's an amazing monitor.

Also, I would like to offer a review of the new Dell 2408.

I found about the Dell 2408 that HDMI input is not suitable for the Full HD (overscan, cropping). Same problem confirmed for the BenQ 241W, Dell 3008.

But the Dell 2408 has extra two DVI inputs that work excellent for 1080p - 100% correct format.
In the view of this fact, IMO monitors with just one digital input in the form of HDMI (ViewSonic VX2435WM) may be disqualified as multimedia monitors unless there is a proper test to guarantee 100% support of 1080p format.
What is your opinion?
Thank you.

Yeah I saw your review as well. Quite impressive.

How did you tell the software to calibrate to Adobe RGB or sRGB?

It may be important to note that although the monitor has a dE 1.0 when calibrated to sRGB, that this only measures gamma accuracy and not how close the colors match the sRGB color space. Therefore color-aware programs are still needed to provide sRGB support. Otherwise colors will be oversaturated as usual, just in a slightly different way. Calibrating to sRGB using the "sRGB Mode" on the monitor is a good indication of its real sRGB performance. And the dE of around 7 here made it clear this monitor is a poor choice for any sRGB work. Using the sRGB mode on the monitor or color-aware programs is the only way to restrict and manage gamut, as far as I can tell. Other types of calibration do not fix the color space problem, only the gamma problem.

I am actually assuming that since the colors of an sRGB-calibrated Adobe RGB monitor are far off from a true sRGB monitor, that when the calibration programs validate your sRGB calibration they are only measuring gamma, and not color space. I am pretty sure this is the case. Otherwise the deltaE's would be something wild. Unless the calibration program is performing gamut emulation on the test patches. Do you know for sure?

I believe that gamut emulation/transformation entails some dithering which is why calibration programs can not simply map one RGB code to another in a different gamut. Or there may be some adaptive transformations based on adjacent colors, but I'm not sure exactly how it works.

You may be right that I give manufacturers the benefit of the doubt too much when it comes to multimedia, although I don't recommend any LCD for console or multimedia use without a good warning about the shortcomings of infamous displays that had overscan or other scaling problems. It's always a problem when someone asks for a monitor for using the XBox or PS3. Something seemingly assumable ("the monitor can do 1080i") becomes so difficult to prove with today's LCDs. I was surprised to find out my LCD2690WUXi did not support 1080i. I assume the case is the same with the LCD2490WUXi.

This is why I recommend people who are using their monitor for an XBox research it more in-depth w/ regards to scaling and expansion options, somewhat beyond the scope of this thread. Actually, this topic is rarely covered in reviews.

I have long been thinking of redoing the list and somehow adding specs for SUPPORTED SCALING OPTIONS, or PROVEN CONSOLE COMPATIBILITY, etc. This is probably my best chance to do that. It will be some time, though, before I am able to revamp the entire list. I still am not certain how exactly to format it but soon, as I mentioned a few posts ago, I will be trying a new list format. For now, Multimedia means PC Multimedia (e.g. playing QuickTime 1080p movie through video card). If I was too strict, I think that very few models would actually make the list.

Another difficult thing is that although certain monitors offer scaling options, it is not always clear for which resolutions they support these expansion options. Usually, the standard 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p are supported but there's no rule that says this must be the case. Therefore, compatibility and overscan testing is crucial to determining a monitor's multimedia capabilities. A list of scaling options (for who knows what resolutions) is not sufficient. I think some people think "oh it has scaling options" and click the order button, completely disregarding the fact that these scaling options may not be reliable or usable for every resolution or connection. It is rather pathetic that we can't trust manufacturers when they state "HD-720p" support and it turns out blatantly false (e.g. ViewSonic VP930b).

I will probably add the 2408 to the recommendations list with those notes that consoles are well-supported on DVI. Am I correct that the uniformity issues aren't really a problem for most people?

Thanks for the insight, your review has been really helpful as well. Seems to be the only 2408WFP review out there at the moment. But it is good you didn't jump the gun and state that it's better than the 2490, e.g. just because "it has a higher contrast ratio" or something and disregard the viewing angle advantage. This is something I have seen other reviewers do far too many times. They are simply unaware of the problems that can plague VA panels on the horizontal and perpendicular plane, sometimes worse than those issues affecting TN panels.
 

redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
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why isnt the Dell 2707WFP recommended under multimedia? Seems like its a high quality monitor?

Just curious
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: cheinonen
I currently have a Dell 2005FPW that I have connected via DVI to my laptop docking station. Soon I'll be moving to a full desktop machine again with Dual DVI, and can't seem to decide between getting a Dell 2007 to match it, or going with a Samsung 245BW for the extra space. Most of the use with this machine will actually be my fiancee, who will be doing a lot of Excel, Stata/SAS, and Word for her dissertation on it, but I will use it some as well for image editing (DSLR) and general use. I won't be gaming on it, and I won't be watching movies on it (I have a home theater for that), so will the downsides of the TN panel in the Samsung really affect us in day-to-day use? Unfortunately $400 is around the budget limit for the monitor right now (fiancee means there is a wedding to pay for, after all), so a Dell 2408 is a little out of the price range. Thanks.

The 245BW sounds like the best choice for general use in your situation.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: redlinez33
why isnt the Dell 2707WFP recommended under multimedia? Seems like its a high quality monitor?

Just curious

Error. It's been added (under the IPS displays).
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: zixxer
Wondering if anyone has any tips for me.. I would prefer something that has a ~1680x1050 resolution (so I can play games on the highest settings).


I recently bought a Samsung 216bw and the TN panel is really disappointing. I have a couch in my computer room and while laying down I'm outside of the viewing angle - there is also a lot of backlight bleeding.


I'd highly prefer something from bestbuy or bestbuy.com since I have a couple gift cards..

Well I don't know. There are not many VA or IPS 22", much less any available at Bestbuy. So you're pretty much stuck to TNs unless you order something more expensive and from elsewhere at that.

You may just consider tilting a TN panel monitor to match your current plane of vision. In which case you will need to find an LCD with tilt support. See if that is suitable for you.

The w2207h (available at Best Buy) has some tilt support (-5 degrees to 30 degrees). Not sure if that'll work for you or not?

http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...3-314303-80720291.html

It's a glossy panel as well, and it uses HDMI so you might need an HDMI->DVI adapter if one is not already included.

Maybe you could get a VESA mounting arm and adjust the LCD's position more that way.
 

albovin

Member
Jan 15, 2008
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To xtknight
How did you tell the software to calibrate to Adobe RGB or sRGB?
The software (EyeOne Match 3) prompts to choose a calibration standard from a list.

I am actually assuming that since the colors of an sRGB-calibrated Adobe RGB monitor are far off from a true sRGB monitor, that when the calibration programs validate your sRGB calibration they are only measuring gamma, and not color space. I am pretty sure this is the case. Otherwise the deltaE's would be something wild. Unless the calibration program is performing gamut emulation on the test patches. Do you know for sure?

I don't know for sure. I was trying to operate calibration program accurately and compare my observations and program reports with similar work done by professionals for other wide gamut monitors. First of all, I made sure that the software is able to tell this monitor sRGB mode gamut from default mode gamut. Yes, the software clearly reported the huge diffenrence on the diagram. At the same time, for calibration to sRGB standard - the software depicted the whole wide gamut (I've read it should be like that) with more dE and same for calibration to Adobe RGB with less dE. Subjective observations coincided with instrumental ones. sRGB mode with maximal dE displayed major deterioration in picture quality. Calibrated to minimal dE, the monitor displayed much more accurate skin tones than uncalibrated. It looks like everything was quite logical. We'll see when the next review comes.
 

albovin

Member
Jan 15, 2008
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Originally posted by: redlinez33
why isnt the Dell 2707WFP recommended under multimedia? Seems like its a high quality monitor?

This monitor has just one digital input - no possibility to connect a PC and a quality stand alone device at the same time.

All analog inputs suffer from overscan and cropping.

2707 has far from perfect viewing angles.

It radiates heat in all directions.

My unit had backlight uniformity ussue.

And finally, the Dell 2707 failed to support 1080p in connection with Toshiba HD DVD player.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: albovin
Originally posted by: redlinez33
why isnt the Dell 2707WFP recommended under multimedia? Seems like its a high quality monitor?

This monitor has just one digital input - no possibility to connect a PC and a quality stand alone device at the same time.

All analog inputs suffer from overscan and cropping.

2707 has far from perfect viewing angles.

It radiates heat in all directions.

My unit had backlight uniformity ussue.

And finally, the Dell 2707 failed to support 1080p in connection with Toshiba HD DVD player

OK, well obviously separating PC-Multimedia monitors and Multimedia/console monitors ought to become a priority for me.
 

PigLickJF

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2008
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I know it's brand new, but anyone have any expoerience with, or heard anything about, the new Dell 2009W?

I'm in the market for a new 20" LCD and I had basically decided on the LG L206WTY, but I'd like to see if this Dell is decent before making a decision. Outward-appearance and feature-wise, I like the Dell better (it's got a nice sleek look, seems to have a well-designed base, lots of flexibility position-wise, and includes some USB ports), but none of that is worth it if the performance isn't as good or better.

(I'm also open for suggestions for other monitors - mostly gaming, some light home video creation/editing, but little to no movie/TV watching, etc).

PigLick
 

ericinho

Member
Feb 20, 2008
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Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: ericinho
Sorry to trouble you

But if I would have to choose between the Dell 2408WFP and the NEC MultiSync® LCD2470WNX (prices are more or less the same) considering what I need it primarily for...
which one would you advice me to choose and more importantly... why?

Thanks!

Considering the 2408WFP is wide gamut, the MultiSync LCD2470WNX is probably a much better choice for editing conventional sRGB photos. Very few people use Adobe RGB, and if you did you'd know it.

Could you clarify that?
I always thought that WG was a good thing when it comes to color reproduction (considering it offers like 78% of LAB colorspace contrary to the standaard RGB which covers like 50 %)?.

It is not that WG comes closer to a CRT screen when it comes to color reproduction?

 

tertle

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2008
1
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0
Hi, I've had a pretty in depth look through this thread but haven't found much for what I need. I was wondering if anyone has an opinion of the LG L246WH (tn panel), specifically in comparison to the Samsung 245B. I was looking at purchasing one sometime in the next 2 days.

Thanks.
 

Deinonych

Senior member
Apr 26, 2003
633
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76
Originally posted by: PigLickJF
I know it's brand new, but anyone have any expoerience with, or heard anything about, the new Dell 2009W?

I'm in the market for a new 20" LCD and I had basically decided on the LG L206WTY, but I'd like to see if this Dell is decent before making a decision. Outward-appearance and feature-wise, I like the Dell better (it's got a nice sleek look, seems to have a well-designed base, lots of flexibility position-wise, and includes some USB ports), but none of that is worth it if the performance isn't as good or better.

(I'm also open for suggestions for other monitors - mostly gaming, some light home video creation/editing, but little to no movie/TV watching, etc).

PigLick

It's a TN panel with a wider horizontal viewing angle (170 vs. 160). Other than that, it's too new for any reviews. If your primary use is gaming, it should perform well. But, until someone actually runs some tests on it, it's hard to be sure.

 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: ericinho
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: ericinho
Sorry to trouble you

But if I would have to choose between the Dell 2408WFP and the NEC MultiSync® LCD2470WNX (prices are more or less the same) considering what I need it primarily for...
which one would you advice me to choose and more importantly... why?

Thanks!

Considering the 2408WFP is wide gamut, the MultiSync LCD2470WNX is probably a much better choice for editing conventional sRGB photos. Very few people use Adobe RGB, and if you did you'd know it.

Could you clarify that?
I always thought that WG was a good thing when it comes to color reproduction (considering it offers like 78% of LAB colorspace contrary to the standaard RGB which covers like 50 %)?.

It is not that WG comes closer to a CRT screen when it comes to color reproduction?

Ninety-five percent (or over) of CRTs are sRGB (NTSC ~= 72% gamut) devices. The few DiamondTrons (not all DiamondTrons/Trinitrons) that reached 97% NTSC or so were so-called "ultra-wide-gamut" models and typically very expensive (e.g. $5000 for a Mitsubishi capable of that). Individual differences in phosphors used may cause the CRT to deviate a little from sRGB in either direction, but by and large this is not why CRTs are better for editing photos.

Unless you are actually using this larger space, a wide gamut monitor will only be a pain for you. The reason for this, is because the farther you deviate from sRGB, the more complex transformation needs to occur in order to emulate it. With this gamut mapping/transformation/emulation (from bigger WG monitor gamut to sRGB) also comes lower saturation as a side effect, because this is one psychovisual trick used to make you think you're seeing a lower gamut image. Often it causes images to look duller than they would on a true sRGB monitor.

Therefore, if the majority of your use comprises sRGB (web, particularly photo editing), a monitor much closer to matching the sRGB standard is best for you. The LCD2470WNX closely matches the sRGB standard, while the 2408WFP well exceeds it meaning emulation is required.

Even then with a monitor that closely matches sRGB, you might want to use a tad bit of emulation (via specifying profile in Photoshop) just to ensure it is exact. Most of the time calibration is enough though since the typical LCD CCFLs match sRGB quite closely.

With pro monitors (like the NEC LCD2690WUXi and NEC LCD3090WQXi) exceeding sRGB and containing adjustable color lookup tables (LUTs), the gamut situation actually does not change. The monitors with adjustable LUTs have three 1-dimensional 12-bit LUTs used for correcting each primary (red, green, and blue). However, this can not be used for gamut mapping! This would require a 3D LUT [1] to map one relative color value to another. e.g. RGB(25,25,25) is not necessarily RGB(35,35,35) in another gamut (the adjustment to which 1D LUTs would be limited). RGB(25,25,25) might be RGB(25,25,21) in another gamut, depending on the shape of the source and destination gamut. This is why complex emulation must take place.

LCDs today can actually achieve greater precision in the sRGB space than can CRT monitors. However, to do this, consumer monitors with typical, simple internal 8-bit LUTs must limit their bit depth (total number of colors). That means, slightly less detail will be displayed. Usually this is not a big deal. If it is, professional monitors offer very high precision with no reduction of the typical 16.7M colors. The DAC can adjust and choose 16.7M colors from about 69 billion colors (if 12-bit). BTW, CRTs must also have their bit depth limited when calibrating via software. So CRTs and LCDs are about even here, with LCDs often having a slight edge in color accuracy after calibration.

Many aperture grille (Trinitron, DiamondTron) CRTs have "SuperBright" modes that yield 300-500 nits. These aren't "better" for photo editing though even if they are still sRGB gamut. Typical photo editing conditions call for about 80-140 nits. Most LCDs can be calibrated to that, (and to be fair, SuperBright is not mandatory, so these CRTs can do 80-100 nits depending on color temp).

LCDs do fall behind when it comes to contrast. CRTs have a much truer black (other than slight leaking around shadow mask). The crystals of LCDs can not align themselves to a position perfect enough to block all light, thus some of the backlight comes through. PVA-type LCDs are the best at blocking light, with MVAs falling short behind. This extra contrast will help the CRT provide more saturation in dark tones without the sensation of leaking backlight. This here is the main advantage of CRTs over most LCDs, even professional ones, for photo editing. Although the pro H-IPS LCDs are pretty good at dark color saturation.

The LCD2470WNX is a PVA so it will have good black performance and saturation. It does, however, not have an internal adjustable LUT. Software calibration will require limiting # of colors.

I hope this clears things up. This post ended up longer than it needed to be, for sure, but I hope it is beneficial for the others reading. I have stated many things in this post that I intended to state earlier.

By the way, wide gamut LCDs may be useful for print matching (when a profile of the printer's ink/paper is used and compared to the monitor's profile). Many printers exceed the sRGB space by a good amount. The HDTV (CCIR 709) space in the US is roughly sRGB, with differences in black point and luminance range (16-235). Therefore, wide gamut LCDs are not necessarily great for HD purposes, either. That's probably a matter of preference anyway; many stores sell LCD TVs that have wide gamut backlights, and most of these TVs perform no gamut transformation that I know of. That is why they appear more saturated. Some people like it. Depending on the material being displayed it might actually work pretty well. Videos have descriptors for color primaries, and standard gamut and wide gamut are lumped together under one code in the H.264 MPEG-4 Codec (e.g. Bluray/HD-DVD). So, it was probably intended for these LCDs to be used for the same material, anyway.

In summary, without proper profiling, editing sRGB/web-intent photos with a wide gamut monitor will result in dull and lifeless images when viewed on an sRGB monitor (as most of the world). That is because the colors displayed on the WG LCD while editing the sRGB image were more vibrant than they should have been. With proper profiling, the colors will instead appear duller on the wide gamut LCD than they should be, but they will be closer to accuracy. With a true sRGB monitor, the colors will be displayed perfectly.

I will save further musings for an upcoming article.

[1] http://forums.dpreview.com/for...=1004&message=25818131
 

Rickover

Junior Member
Mar 17, 2008
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Well I got caught by the gamut gotcha, dispite reading this forum and the one at Hardforum.com.

I am looking for a monitor for color correction work using Apple Color. You guys mostly talk about print and web work but given the fact that the NEC 2690 is at the top of the list for watching movies, I thought that it would be the best for movie editing as well, so I ordered one. Then I find that HD video uses something that's basically the same as sRGB.

Oops.

Not that I'm mad or anything, but this topic is very confusing to me. It was also mentioned that aRGB monitors such as the 2690 would look fine in "color managed" software, such as Safari. Does this mean that if Apple Color is "color managed" than the colors would be accurate on a 2690? Or should I just return the NEC when it gets here... *sigh*

Might I also suggest that you lower the 2690 down the multimedia list and perhaps some of the others.
 

Doctor W

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2004
10
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0
My 2000FP is starting to go... it's treated me damn well over the years but the backlights are kicking it, everyone is out of stock of replacements and HD content is becoming more prevalent. The long and short is there's *absolutely* no way I'd use anything besides IPS after 6 years of falling in love with one. The doublesight and planar seem nice but wide gamut disturbs me. Between Firefox 3's color system and Media Player Classic pixel shaders being able to convert color space it's not hard to get correct color but you still lose dynamic range and can have banding. And each of the rendering intents have drawbacks.

Looks like the only real options for normal-gamut IPS these days are:

Apple Cinema (no PC controls, slower response than typical)
HP 2065 (panel lottery, not widescreen & not full res for HD)
NEC 2490 ($$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$)

Am I missing any? Right now I'm leaning toward the DS or Planar 26" and dealing with the wide gamut correction problems. Maybe I can figure a way to slightly compromise say haflway between aRGB oversaturation and compressiong all the way to sRGB... halfway perhaps.
 

irvinenomore

Junior Member
Nov 30, 2007
9
0
0
Have been looking at replacing my overly dark 17 inch CRT monitor and have been reading this great thread and the linked information but only achieved brain overload!

The monitor would be used for the following;

Mostly text and browsing.
Secondly multimedia including some HD.
Infrequently older flight simulators, Falcon 4 AF and Lock-On (not sure if Lock-on has widescreen support.)

Original budget up to $350 and was waiting for a sale at Futuresh**, bang for the buck is important.

Have relegated to second grade for the following reasons;

LG L226WTQ-SF ($270) - colour critized in a couple of reviews along with text quality.
Viewsonic VX2255wmb ($247) - power supply buzzing, I am a long time SPCR member and the monitor will sit in a living area but the bang for the buck aspect is making this one more atractive, maybe risking returning a buzzing one.

That leaves me we with the following choices;

HP w2207 refurbished ($250) - would have to play the panel lottery and hope for a good Samsung panel as is only available on line.
HP w2207h ($350) - like the glossy look in store, the portrait mode and USB hub. Concerned about reflection in daily use. Would try and cherry pick an LG panel.
Samsung 245BW ($380) - Concerned with the colour consistency for movies and the lack of output scaling for Lock-On. My other concern with this monitor and games is that I have read several comments that it needs a dual graphic card setup, so would like to understand how effective, or not, my X1950PRO 512mb will be driving it in flight sims?
 

kukka

Junior Member
Jun 7, 2005
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xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
Originally posted by: PigLickJF
I know it's brand new, but anyone have any expoerience with, or heard anything about, the new Dell 2009W?

I'm in the market for a new 20" LCD and I had basically decided on the LG L206WTY, but I'd like to see if this Dell is decent before making a decision. Outward-appearance and feature-wise, I like the Dell better (it's got a nice sleek look, seems to have a well-designed base, lots of flexibility position-wise, and includes some USB ports), but none of that is worth it if the performance isn't as good or better.

(I'm also open for suggestions for other monitors - mostly gaming, some light home video creation/editing, but little to no movie/TV watching, etc).

PigLick

I know the 2009W is a TN. I don't usually like Dells let alone Dell TNs so don't expect miracles.

I don't know whether or not it's better than the LG. Simply put there have been no pro reviews of either. Sorry.

You may instead consider the HP L2045w or w2007.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
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71
Originally posted by: tertle
Hi, I've had a pretty in depth look through this thread but haven't found much for what I need. I was wondering if anyone has an opinion of the LG L246WH (tn panel), specifically in comparison to the Samsung 245B. I was looking at purchasing one sometime in the next 2 days.

Thanks.

No idea about the LG.

But the best 24" TN out there now is the BenQ G2400W. It's a great value and very likely better than the 245B (based off what I've seen so far).
 

redlinez33

Senior member
Nov 11, 2007
278
0
0
I sent the planar back. Few reasons. It was way to bright for me and no way I could make it dimmer without loosing quality (I dont have a nice calibrator). Also the picture was great except for black levels, which were bad. The glow also go annoying because you could see it in dark scenes in games etc. It didnt feel like it was a $900 monitor, and its not. DS proved it by releasing it for $700.. Might be worth it for that price.

I decided to order the Dell 2707WFP. I got it for $950 with tax (which is $50 cheaper than there site). Every review I have read pretty much says the picture quality is great, but its to expensive. When they reviewed it the prices were around $1200, so $950 sounds much better. The only thing I am really concerned about is input lag, so I will see how bad it is when I get it... Should have it by Thursday.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Rickover

Well I got caught by the gamut gotcha, dispite reading this forum and the one at Hardforum.com.

I am looking for a monitor for color correction work using Apple Color. You guys mostly talk about print and web work but given the fact that the NEC 2690 is at the top of the list for watching movies, I thought that it would be the best for movie editing as well, so I ordered one. Then I find that HD video uses something that's basically the same as sRGB.

Oops.

Not that I'm mad or anything, but this topic is very confusing to me. It was also mentioned that aRGB monitors such as the 2690 would look fine in "color managed" software, such as Safari. Does this mean that if Apple Color is "color managed" than the colors would be accurate on a 2690? Or should I just return the NEC when it gets here... *sigh*

Might I also suggest that you lower the 2690 down the multimedia list and perhaps some of the others.

Well I don't think the 2690 is worthy of such demotion just because it's a WG LCD. The WG is very nice for games and it makes most movies look better to most people. They're still king of the roost; they look great especially when you have content to utilize them.

But, if you're a content producer you might want to avoid using a WG LCD. It's the same concept behind getting a colorimeter if you're a photographer; you want your colors to be as accurate as possible, even if they don't look the most vibrant or lush.

I don't know what Apple Color is. It looks like a feature of Final Cut Pro but I don't know if it supports gamut mapping or not. On first glance, it doesn't seem like it does.

In Multimedia the LCD26's position will stay put but this is why it is not recommended for photo editing. I don't mention movie editing but never be afraid to ask about an LCD's "movie editing" abilities.

I hope that clears things up. I don't know if you'll be able to return the LCD26 or not; it depends on your merchant. But, perhaps NEC will exchange it for an LCD24 for you if you state your concern.

Even then, I own the LCD26 and it's not the end of the world. In fact, I love this LCD. The LCD24 does have slightly better quality control, a lower price, a lower dot pitch, slightly better contrast, and much better sRGB matching though.

Using sRGB mode on the LCD26 isn't much better than grabbing a Dell IPS LCD and using it for photo editing uncalibrated. Actually it could be a little worse. I would definitely consider using my sRGB NEC 20WMGX2 for any critical editing.

The LCD26's colors without gamut transformation don't always look more vibrant; they might just look "off" or more green than they should be. Using sRGB gamut transformation, if your software supports it, yields a decent image though. It's probably up to par with an unprofessional, colorimeter-calibrated LCD. Not quite up to par with the LCD24 though, and the fact remains the primaries (phosphors) used in the LCD26 were never intended to match sRGB, so any semblance to sRGB is at best an illusion created by the gamut transformation algorithm.

Anyway, it really depends on your target audience whether you want to use a wider color space or not. Perhaps you do want to develop wide gamut content. If you are targeting home theater enthusiasts that have bright/oversaturated sRGB or wide gamut LCD TVs (not uncommon) then maybe a WG monitor is right for you. If you're targeting the web, you'll without question want an sRGB monitor or at least to use sRGB gamut transformation.
 

Tasiin

Member
Oct 11, 2005
78
0
0
Well, I've requested an RMA for my LP2065.

I considered keeping it even despite the other issues, but the color problems are really getting to me. It's never looked right even out of the box -- 9300K makes white look very blue, and the default 6500K is a dark orange that's tough to see anything in. The best I could do was to set it to 76 red and 100 green/blue in custom color, but it still looks pretty strange. If I set the contrast to 100 with those settings (as many people suggest) white turns into a bright yellow across the entire screen. The bottom left and right half of the screen have a strong yellow tint too, but the upper portion looks normal. It's actually almost like a TN panel when displaying a solid color like white, and looks pretty uneven.

I'm guessing this is unusual for the HP? Maybe I just got a bad one.

edit: I never noticed this before, but if I look at a black screen with the lights off there's a lot of yellowish backlight bleeding near the areas that have the yellow tint. There's some at the top too, but it's the normal white color you'd expect from bleeding. Looks like there are a few other people that have gotten excessive bleeding in the bottom corners as well.
 
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