[Retired] The LCD Thread

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: kentsfield
Yesterday i tried to watch an 1080p movie on my NEC 20wgx2 pro. I use media player classic and ffdshow. I know my monitor does not support the 1080p (full hd). But i was able to watch the movie. Did the movie just downscaled or how is this possible? I think it looks better than my 720p movies. Can it hurt my monitor to watch 1080p?

Hurt the monitor lol..

It just downscales

 

[kentsfield]

Don`t wanna hurt my 550eur baby :Ð

 

[redlinez33]

I finally took a photo (crappy one, but it shows the point) of what I have been trying to describe. HardOCP forum is a great way to show the problem I see..

Heres is the picture of the left side of the screen being brighter when viewed straight on.


pic1



Here is a picture when viewing the same screen but looking straight at the area that was brighter before.

pic2


Is this normal?

 

[redlinez33]

Heres two more pictures. Crappy pictures again, but these pictures are to show the effect I am seeing clearly. I suck at taking pictures as well, but the camera over exaggerates the problem, and makes the whole screen blueish.... But the problem should be obvious.

Left side is brighter


Poof... Eveness


The 2408WFP had it MUCH MUCH worse than this.....

So what am I seeing here?

 

[Buck Armstrong]

PVA viewing angles.

If it goes away when viewed straight on, then its not backlight bleed, its the old VA contrast/color shift.

 

[redlinez33]

Ya sortof sucks... This is my only REAL complaint about this monitor, otherwise its the best looking monitor I have owned.

 

[AxilX]

*directed an xKnight regarding the calibration website%

Thanks, that site really helped. My particular monitor appears to have suffered from the an overall excess in color saturation, as well as a blue dominance. Neither was as terrible, but i have noticed the monitor is easier on the eyes with the gamma dialed back to an appropriate level. Bottom line is the factory settings were far from perfect, but they did look pretty good, i (with my untrained eye) had the feeling somthing was wrong, but wasn't able to put my finger on it. Greyscales are still a bit on the blue side, but i'm not going to play with it anymore unless someone releases an .ICC profile for the 2533. Overall, i can't say i'm unhappy with my purchase, i don't have a single dead pixel, and games look gorgeous on it.

 

[chance2105]

First post to anandtech forums. Hey all.

I purchased a Samsung 2232BW from a local brick-and-mortar after hearing all the raving comments from various sources about the 226BW.

Got the thing home, plugged it in .. text was difficult to read, and after about 10 minutes I had a blaring headache. Other than that, I noticed something didn't seem quite right about the contrast and gamma - some colors really shone while others were held back. At default settings, all of my "lighter" themes (I use Linux/Gnome, so that would be just about all of them) appeared white and white background around black text would bleed into the black text, lending to it a washed-out appearance. No amount of adjusting brightness and contrast would remedy it. Overall my impression is that the display was too bright, and would leave it at zero on the brightness adjustment. Brightness below a setting of 80 would make the monitor give out a whine...

The gamma somehow seemed to be way all over the map. It was different for different colors, and I could move slightly and the gamma would change all over the screen. The changes were non-linear, and were different for different colors.

I did finally settle on a pretty hefty gamma correction. Things "seemed" better and less washed-out, but I still couldn't look at the screen for very long without headache and color reproduction was limited. I returned it.

I ordered an HP LP2065 online, forgoing the ability to see it in person. Opened the thing up, plugged it in..

Way different impression than the 2232BW. I received the IPS panel. Default settings were spot on. The text is very readable. White appears almost perfect. Gamma and contrast is right on the money. From what I have read about IPS I was expecting soft black .. it's not the best black, but the black level is just about as bright as the 2232BW. Since the gamma and overall contrast is good, the black levels don't bother me at all (I never notice it).

I like the color rendition on the HP better than my old Dell CRT. The CRT has that nice black and good contrast, but there a swath of mid-bright colors that it doesn't distinguish well between. The HP really distinguishes well in that area. Well scanned photographic film and digital art displayed on this monitor is a treat. I have no headaches. Sharpness is also good (not aliased, not soft).

The anti-glare is aggressive. It doesn't normally bother me, but it's present.

Anyway, that is my experience. I'll definately keep my eye out for IPS panels in the future.

 

[muppet22]

redlinez - my 275t+ is somewhat lighter on the left and right edges (if i look straight on), but not to the point where i would see it unless i was looking for it with 1 color spanning the whole screen.

i'm guessing it is just a bigger problem for dell?

 

[Laztlain]

Hi - Just bought the Acer AL2216WBD based mainly on this forum topic. Anyway, I want to use a color profile with this monitor and it looks like the profile from digitalversus is for the AL2216WD, not the AL2216WBD. Comparing on Newegg the differences seem to be: the WD has speakers, 16.2 Million colors vs. 16.4 Million for thr WBD, and the WD has 800:1 contrats vs 700:1 for thw WBD. Can i still us ethe profile for the WD style for my WBD monitor?

 

[muppet22]

redlinez, if you are content with the input lag on the 2707wfp, you may want to consider the 275t+? that is the only reason i am sending it back

 

[redlinez33]

Are we sure the 275T has the same input lag as the 2707WFP?

 

[Dashel]

Hi all.

A year back I had decided to pick up a Dell 2407. That never happened but I'm looking to pull the trigger on a PC upgrade with a 24" monitor for gaming.

Doing a google shopping search for the 2407 doesnt yield much, I assume thats because it's been replaced by the 2408? I dont see either recommended here for gaming, but I'm still leaning towards a Dell because I love my current Dell 20" and I read some good reviews on the 2407 in various places including XBit Labs

So, can anyone shed some light on the 2408 for me? Or recommend a non TN panel 24" LCD for roughly the same price? I remember BenQ had a very nice 24" panel for a bit more than the 2407, but I'm forgetting which model.

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Are we sure the 275T has the same input lag as the 2707WFP?

i read somewhere (hardforum i think) that the 275T has 2 frames of input lag.

and see my earlier post on the 275T+'s input lag (seems to be 2 frames).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Laztlain
Well I must say that this has been the BEST source of information on LCD monitors I have ever seen! Based primarily on the information I have gathered here, I believe I have narrowed down my choices for a new LCD. I use my computer for hardcore gaming; no movies, no photo editing, just plain good ol' fashion gaming. FPS mostly, but some other genres as well. Also, I have the nVidia 8800GT 512mb video card. I will be upgrading from a decent 19" CRT (ViewSonic UltraBrite A90f+) - so I think I would be able to notice lagging with slow LCD responses to a certain degree. I have around 300 bucks to spend and here are my current choices:

Soyo 24" DYLM24D6 - ONLY IF it goes back on sale at OfficeMax again
BenQ 24" G2400W - Again, IF I can find it on sale for around 300 bucks
Acer 22" AL2216Wbd - I can get this now for $195 delivered (AR) from CompUSA

I am a little worried that games such as Crysis - and newer - can really slow down my system at the 24" monitor's native resolution. Given this, and the fact that the other 2 monitor's I am looking at are currently not available at my price range, what do you think of the Acer as a gaming monitor; again keep in mind I am upgrading from a "fairly good" CRT? or perhaps another LCD (22" minimum) you would recommend?

Thanks!

The Acer is a TN and the Soyo is pretty unreliable. TNs will offer good speed but not great color accuracy. You said you wouldn't be photo editing, so I think the Acer is a good monitor for your price range. Especially if you plan on playing Crysis I guess a 24" isn't suitable.

So far I've heard decent things about the Samsung 2253BW too, which is $270: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824001268

With no pro reviews there's no guarantee it's better though.

 

[xtknight]

Received the VX2435wm.

First impressions are good: backlight is uniform, contrast is great, input lag is not serious. That's a godsend because I wouldn't be able to send it back (Newegg).

It's actually a lot easier on my eyes than the LCD2690 but I won't get to keep it, anyway.

As an sRGB monitor it seems very good (beginning to dislike WG of LCD26 a bit). The response time is a little slow though since it's a VA panel but not bad. Some response time control issues just like my VP930b (dark smearing). OK for gaming. More to follow...

The lack of autodetect is silly, you do have to change it to HDMI before you even start it up.

Not much to complain about except the normal VA silky-silvery-grays and unsolid colors due to color shift. Big solid dark grays actually suck. Other than that, not much of a problem.

As for TN vs VA angles, after seeing this 24" VA and having seen a 245BW, I don't even think there's a debate. The VA knocks it away left and right.

The contrast IMO is a major redeeming factor of the VA panel over the H-IPS. But, the H-IPS has better skin tones especially if you properly use the wide gamut available to you.

Originally posted by: Gatss

Originally posted by: xtknight
I've got a VX2435wm (S-MVA) on the way. At least a brief review will come soon. Probably won't be here till next week.

Won't be mine but I'll take suggestions on what you want to hear about it. I will have a few days to spend with it.

I purchased that same model and have pm'ed you a few times with questions which you answered. I would be curious how you set the monitors display values for what you think are the most accurate. Contrast, Brightness, Color Adjust, Opticolor Mode, Opticolor Skin Mode. I am not sure if you can test it with a Vista OS and Nvidia Control Panel but I would like to know how you set Vista's Color Management and Nvidia's Desktop Color Settings. I still don't know how to turn off Nvidia's Control Panel Desktop Color Settings.

Thanks!

Oh and an xtknight approved ICC Profile might be nice!

Well I can tell you that this monitor reveals dark details like heck, so it's no surprise that website you showed me would show up well on it.

The default calibration on the display looks splendid to me, actually, but I'll have to confirm with a colorimeter later on.

 

[Buck Armstrong]

XT:

Just out of curiosity, why is the 2435 easier on the eyes than the 2690?

The autodetect thing seems to be a common ViewSonic problem...although compared to all the other LCD quirks (especially in the 24" range), its a relatively minor problem to have.

 

[dderidex]

<Advice fishing:

Time for an LCD upgrade. Thing is, I'm being very limited with the budget primarily because I just don't use the PC with high-demanding applications enough to need something spendy. Also don't need a lot of real estate, as we have a modest sized condo, so 30"+ monitors are just ridiculous.

For comparison, I'm currently running a 5:4 ratio 17" Sony SDM-HS75P. I like the responsiveness and color of this monitor plenty.

However, we are watching quite a bit of movies on it, and I'd like to get a monitor more 'flat' than 'tall'...so, looking at the widescreen (1440x900) 19" LCD monitors.

I happen to PARTICULARLY like (about the monitor I have, and my wife's laptop) the 'glossy' coatings newer LCDs seem to have. I had a few Dells back in the day (2005fpw, for example) and rather HATED the look of them without it.

Anyway, budget is $200.

This one seems like an obvious choice...thoughts?

 

[patrickj]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I am pretty sure now that the LG W2452T uses the same panel as the LG panel thats used in the HP w2408...........

Nevermind, according to flatpanels.dk, the 2408 is a TN panel...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: kentsfield
Yesterday i tried to watch an 1080p movie on my NEC 20wgx2 pro. I use media player classic and ffdshow. I know my monitor does not support the 1080p (full hd). But i was able to watch the movie. Did the movie just downscaled or how is this possible? I think it looks better than my 720p movies. Can it hurt my monitor to watch 1080p?

Media Player Classic uses your desktop resolution when you fullscreen (unless you're using some odd mode). Requesting a mode of 1920x1080 through the NEC would simply yield an "out of range" message, not damage the monitor.

In fullscreen/software, 1080p is downscaled to your desktop resolution.

 

[Dashel]

Would anyone be able to tell me how my current Dell 2001FP 20" LCD would stack up with the newer Dell 2407 or 2408 monitors? Beyond the obvious like size and widescreen, I'm talking more in terms of input lag or ghosting or colors etc.

In short, if I'm happy gaming with my Dell 2001FP will I be happy with a 24" 2408?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: brumby05

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: brumby05
Is there anyway to find out if an LCD monitor has 1:1 mapping. I want to use a 24" monitor for pc and xbox 360 gaming. I will use 1920 x 1200 for pc and 1920 x 1080 for 360. So for the 360 I want 1:1 mapping so the image is not stretched.

Well which monitor are you talking about? There's not really a database that says yes or no but sometimes the manual (downloadable) states it. Otherwise someone here may know or can help you google it.

The VX2435wm has 1:1 mapping and it's a decent 24". On Newegg I see this:

When going 1:1 pixel mapping with the 360 at 1080p, it does black bars all around the image. Shouldn't it be only on top and bottom? However, if you put it on 16:9 mode it fixes the problem. Don't know why that is, but it leaves the aspect ratio right at least.

I wasn't really looking at anyone in particular but I am looking for an lcd monitor that has hdmi and dvi as I will use it with my 360 and pc. I think the dell 2408fwp looks good but I don't know how it is for gaming.

I am not sure although you may ask one of the people here or on HardForum who has used the 2408. It's pretty new. I believe it has some issues with screen uniformity but not too bad.

(I link to a review of the 2408 in a few posts below.)

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I finally took a photo (crappy one, but it shows the point) of what I have been trying to describe. HardOCP forum is a great way to show the problem I see..

Heres is the picture of the left side of the screen being brighter when viewed straight on.


pic1



Here is a picture when viewing the same screen but looking straight at the area that was brighter before.

pic2


Is this normal?

I get the same thing with my VX2435wm.

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Heres two more pictures. Crappy pictures again, but these pictures are to show the effect I am seeing clearly. I suck at taking pictures as well, but the camera over exaggerates the problem, and makes the whole screen blueish.... But the problem should be obvious.

Left side is brighter


Poof... Eveness


The 2408WFP had it MUCH MUCH worse than this.....

So what am I seeing here?

Your 2408 probably just had more backlight bleeding making it more obvious?

 

[redlinez33]

I dont know, all i remember is returning the 2408 because of it. I havent exactly returned my 2707 yet

So I guess ALL VA panels have this problem when the screen gets to big (seems 24" +)......

Now I have to decide should I live with this, or go back to the doublesight which has evenly lit screen, but has the glow problem and has low contrast.................. Decisions decisions

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: chance2105

First post to anandtech forums. Hey all.

I purchased a Samsung 2232BW from a local brick-and-mortar after hearing all the raving comments from various sources about the 226BW.

Got the thing home, plugged it in .. text was difficult to read, and after about 10 minutes I had a blaring headache. Other than that, I noticed something didn't seem quite right about the contrast and gamma - some colors really shone while others were held back. At default settings, all of my "lighter" themes (I use Linux/Gnome, so that would be just about all of them) appeared white and white background around black text would bleed into the black text, lending to it a washed-out appearance. No amount of adjusting brightness and contrast would remedy it. Overall my impression is that the display was too bright, and would leave it at zero on the brightness adjustment. Brightness below a setting of 80 would make the monitor give out a whine...

The gamma somehow seemed to be way all over the map. It was different for different colors, and I could move slightly and the gamma would change all over the screen. The changes were non-linear, and were different for different colors.

I did finally settle on a pretty hefty gamma correction. Things "seemed" better and less washed-out, but I still couldn't look at the screen for very long without headache and color reproduction was limited. I returned it.

I ordered an HP LP2065 online, forgoing the ability to see it in person. Opened the thing up, plugged it in..

Way different impression than the 2232BW. I received the IPS panel. Default settings were spot on. The text is very readable. White appears almost perfect. Gamma and contrast is right on the money. From what I have read about IPS I was expecting soft black .. it's not the best black, but the black level is just about as bright as the 2232BW. Since the gamma and overall contrast is good, the black levels don't bother me at all (I never notice it).

I like the color rendition on the HP better than my old Dell CRT. The CRT has that nice black and good contrast, but there a swath of mid-bright colors that it doesn't distinguish well between. The HP really distinguishes well in that area. Well scanned photographic film and digital art displayed on this monitor is a treat. I have no headaches. Sharpness is also good (not aliased, not soft).

The anti-glare is aggressive. It doesn't normally bother me, but it's present.

Anyway, that is my experience. I'll definately keep my eye out for IPS panels in the future.

Yup, this is the difference between a (poorly tuned) TN and a (well tuned) IPS panel.

Originally posted by: Laztlain
Hi - Just bought the Acer AL2216WBD based mainly on this forum topic. Anyway, I want to use a color profile with this monitor and it looks like the profile from digitalversus is for the AL2216WD, not the AL2216WBD. Comparing on Newegg the differences seem to be: the WD has speakers, 16.2 Million colors vs. 16.4 Million for thr WBD, and the WD has 800:1 contrats vs 700:1 for thw WBD. Can i still us ethe profile for the WD style for my WBD monitor?

I don't really know how similar it is, but trying another profile will not hurt your monitor. If you like the look of it you can keep it.

Originally posted by: Dashel
Hi all.

A year back I had decided to pick up a Dell 2407. That never happened but I'm looking to pull the trigger on a PC upgrade with a 24" monitor for gaming.

Doing a google shopping search for the 2407 doesnt yield much, I assume thats because it's been replaced by the 2408? I dont see either recommended here for gaming, but I'm still leaning towards a Dell because I love my current Dell 20" and I read some good reviews on the 2407 in various places including XBit Labs

So, can anyone shed some light on the 2408 for me? Or recommend a non TN panel 24" LCD for roughly the same price? I remember BenQ had a very nice 24" panel for a bit more than the 2407, but I'm forgetting which model.

BenQ's model was the FP241W but it was discontinued I believe, at least in some places, and it was plagued by a blackout problem (video card interaction).

There's a good review of the 2408 here: http://monitortest.blogspot.com/

It says that input lag is three frames which is not too bad for this size of monitor. It's probably a good choice for you but it depends on your current monitor.

(This also goes for brumby05) ^^

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Buck Armstrong
XT:

Just out of curiosity, why is the 2435 easier on the eyes than the 2690?

The autodetect thing seems to be a common ViewSonic problem...although compared to all the other LCD quirks (especially in the 24" range), its a relatively minor problem to have.

It has slightly higher contrast (in some situations), and a less harsh image due to the standard backlight. It seems less "in your face", less screen-door effect and a smaller size.

It would be a much more even comparison if I had a 2490 though (std backlight, same size).

The contrast advantage wasn't as much as I'd thought. The H-IPS panel offers 750:1 or so at max and the VX2435wm reaches maybe 800:1. I was expecting >1000:1 so that's a little disappointing but the black can reach 0.20 or so at minimum while the 2690 does 0.24 (both with white@120 nits).

The VX2435 actually has abominable streaking problems with dark colors, probably worse than the Dell people were complaining about. I still don't think it's that big of a deal though. It's a minor flaw compared to color shift. And if you're not gaming it's simply not a problem any more than say dead pixels.

With dark games like STALKER the VX2435wm kind of "falls apart". Things get streaky and hard to see. In contrast (no pun intended), the 2690 keeps its composure in these situations. The deep black level doesn't help at all because the VA panel conceals the dark details or makes them look "veily". They always seem like they're popping out but they never are, like static. Moving your head 1 degree will reveal them, and moving it back will hide them slightly. But it's certainly usable, just not as impressive as it is in brighter games. I might go as far to say the VX2435 can be better, at times, with well-lit games. Colors look a little more natural because of the standard backlight. (But since games don't exceed sRGB yet this isn't really a fair comparison.)

Both LCDs have their merits and I have to say I'm not sure given the 2690's lack of connectivity options if it's worth $600+ more for a lot of people (even more w/ colorimeter and SpectraView). But something like the Planar or DoubleSight which are slightly cheaper might be worth it just because you don't get the VA shift problems. I still have absolutely no regrets with the 2690. The VX2435's occasional lack of color punch is just as annoying as the 2690's frequent oversaturation. Most sRGB images look better on the VX2435 though, versus the 2690 w/ ICC emulation.

The VX2435's default colors are really good and you don't really need to use a colorimeter on it.