[Retired] The LCD Thread

[patrickj]

Originally posted by: devilchrist
I have the 24" LG flatron LCD and I love it. Only reason I chose this over the Samsung 245BW is because every review said it was not a TN panel.

I don't see it on your list though. It's s much better than the Samsung and Dell (I've had both)


It comes with DVI to HDMI cable.

GOOD:
Great colors,
Very fast, no input lag,
Very little ghosting.
8-bit panel (As far as i've researched)
Not TN

BAD:
not alot of connection options,
only 2 USB ports
RBG, HDMI, S-Cable
RGB connection just plain suck. Lot of flicker and dithering.

Are you referring to the LG W2452T-TF ? If so, where did you find information about the panel? I tried to find panel info on the LG 24" and 26" at Best Buy, but the haven't been able to. I have the 22"227WTG-PF which is nice looking until you turn it on. The whole thing seems to be blaring and the color banding is more than I can tolerate. My CRT died and I had to buy something and had some best buy gift cards.

I'd like to buy one of the recommended LCD's, but have a problem buying something sight unseen. I don't game, but do a lot of work with Photoshop Lightroom. I need accurate colors and a display that calibrates well. My preference is a 24", any suggestions? Anybody know what type of panel is in this?

 

[10e]

I would think he is referring to the LG L245WP or L246WP, which is now unofficially discontinued. I can tell this because he mentioned it had a DVI to HDMI cable, and the L245/6WP only has an HDMI digital input.

The W2452T is 100% TN panel with DVI instead of HDMI.

Someone on HardForums (Gar818) said that he gets a lot of banding on his L227WT if he turns the contrast to below 70, and it goes away when contrast is higher.

That LG W2600H-PF is also a TN panel. It's the LG W2600H that is supposedly coming with S-IPS, but expect it to be at least $250.00 more than that one.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: patrickj

Originally posted by: devilchrist
I have the 24" LG flatron LCD and I love it. Only reason I chose this over the Samsung 245BW is because every review said it was not a TN panel.

I don't see it on your list though. It's s much better than the Samsung and Dell (I've had both)


It comes with DVI to HDMI cable.

GOOD:
Great colors,
Very fast, no input lag,
Very little ghosting.
8-bit panel (As far as i've researched)
Not TN

BAD:
not alot of connection options,
only 2 USB ports
RBG, HDMI, S-Cable
RGB connection just plain suck. Lot of flicker and dithering.

Are you referring to the LG W2452T-TF ? If so, where did you find information about the panel? I tried to find panel info on the LG 24" and 26" at Best Buy, but the haven't been able to. I have the 22"227WTG-PF which is nice looking until you turn it on. The whole thing seems to be blaring and the color banding is more than I can tolerate. My CRT died and I had to buy something and had some best buy gift cards.

I'd like to buy one of the recommended LCD's, but have a problem buying something sight unseen. I don't game, but do a lot of work with Photoshop Lightroom. I need accurate colors and a display that calibrates well. My preference is a 24", any suggestions? Anybody know what type of panel is in this?

 

[Oppear]

Hello, have been reading the new and older lcd thread here and am interested in a new lcd aswell.

xtknight, If I'm not mistaken, You've had a Samsung 710T in the past, and upgraded for Nec LCD20WGX². If so , then were there some aspects You liked better on the 710T, like maybe reaction times? The reason I'm asking is because I've got one atm. Would want to know how major would be the difference.

Was thinking of getting a 20" 1600x1200 or 22" wide. If I'm not mistaken, there is no actual need for going 21" 4:3 since they have the same pixelcount, right?
As far as money goes, the cost of the 2070NX or 20WGX2 wouldn't be a big problem.

Would be using it for movies and photo images mainly.

What would be a good IPS panel these days?

Tnx.

 

[Orubasarot]

...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: macsolu
I've tried hyperlinking with several of the displays recommended in the lists on page one, only to end up with NewEgg pages indicating an item that has been discontinued/is no longer available. I'm gently suggesting a refresh of posted links.

OK. I did some bigtime overdue housecleaning, link fixing, and price updating. So everything should be good now.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: seymsag

Originally posted by: xtknight
Thanks for the photos. This helps so much.

This problem occurs when the wrong gamma correction is specified and you're using a compressed image with a lower dynamic range.

You can try adjusting "gamma" or "brightness" on the PS3 (or the game). I don't even know if you can do this? Or maybe you can also do it on the monitor. The PS3 settings would be the first thing to try, though.

In short, it is caused by the game. That's why your PS3 can show images fine.

Make sure you're in Standard SensEye mode.

You are welcome, I should thank you for your time.

Playstation 3 has three settings in Display Setting section and none of the things you mention.These are: Cross Color Reduction Filter ,Rgb Full Range (hdmi), Super white.These dont effect the issue in any way.

I haven't seen gamma option in any game.And a lot of games dont have brightness setting.

X2200w's osd is very limited; there is no gamma adjustment option and brightness option only changes backlight.

Does this mean I am stuck with these odd colors in games?Any way to change settings through Windows Xp and installing them in x2200w's memory?

Well from 10e's post it sounds like the PS3's problem. So in that case, there's not much you can do.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jimwhitephotography
I need a photo editing monitor and have a budget of about $500. I'm not hung up on this but don't want to spend $1,000. I predominately create inkjet prints using the adobe color gamut so cmyk accuracy is not really an issue. I calibrate so having a screen that responds well to calibration is a must. I'm in the U.S.

Other than wanting an ips panel I'm pretty much lost. This is a great resource here but way too much information.

You can't have an IPS panel for <$500 unless you take a gamble with the LP2065, available for $295 on Newegg. Almost all recent panels have been IPS. It's not a wide gamut though.

For wide gamut IPS your cheapest option is the DoubleSight DS-263N which is a great deal for a 26" WG S-IPS. $700: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...6824185007&Tpk=ds-263n

There are literally NO other WG/ARGB S-IPS options for a lower price, so there you go.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: patrickj
I'd like to buy one of the recommended LCD's, but have a problem buying something sight unseen. I don't game, but do a lot of work with Photoshop Lightroom. I need accurate colors and a display that calibrates well. My preference is a 24", any suggestions? Anybody know what type of panel is in this?

That's a TN panel.

The brick and mortar stores pretty much carry nothing but TNs so you won't be finding photo editing displays there.

You may have to order something from Dell, which I believe authorizes refunds for LCDs.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Oppear
Hello, have been reading the new and older lcd thread here and am interested in a new lcd aswell.

xtknight, If I'm not mistaken, You've had a Samsung 710T in the past, and upgraded for Nec LCD20WGX². If so , then were there some aspects You liked better on the 710T, like maybe reaction times? The reason I'm asking is because I've got one atm. Would want to know how major would be the difference.

The difference is incredible. Everything about it is better, basically.

First, the 710T has dim colors and a fuzzy anti-glare coating. The 20WMXG2 is glossy and has very vibrant colors. It also doesn't dither like the 710T does, so grays are more pure.

Response time is a good amount faster since the NEC uses overdrive.

And it has a lot more multimedia inputs.

Was thinking of getting a 20" 1600x1200 or 22" wide. If I'm not mistaken, there is no actual need for going 21" 4:3 since they have the same pixelcount, right?
As far as money goes, the cost of the 2070NX or 20WGX2 wouldn't be a big problem.

Would be using it for movies and photo images mainly.

What would be a good IPS panel these days?

Tnx.

Well your only option for any IPS panel whatsoever under $500 is the HP LP2065, even then not guaranteed S-IPS. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176053&Tpk=lp2065

But it's a very decent screen and still a very nice upgrade from the 710T. I have used the 2007FP, which has the same panel as the LP2065.

Give that a try. It's a good deal. 21" panels deliver bigger font size and image, that's all, no more pixels.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: 10e


The L2410NM is actually an 8-bit MVA panel made by CMO (ChiMei Optoelectronics). Westinghouse is just a name as the entire monitor is built by CMO. It has HDMI, VGA, and component connections.

The only caveats of this display is a slight buzzing noise and some people with screen door effect on the right side. My biggest complaint is the 1 year warranty.

HDMI does not do power save, but VGA does. I have a feeling that this display was targeted as a multi-functional monitor where PC is over VGA and consumer video devices are displayed over HDMI and component.

-HDMI and component display no overscan using video sources unless you select "zoomed"

-All outputs can do 1:1 mapping of 1080p (1920x1080 over VGA) without issue.

-HDMI with a PC can do 1920x1200 perfectly and is very intelligent. It will auto-detect PC and video sources on-the-fly and adjusts the OSD accordingly.

-Has slightly crushed blacks with PC over HDMI, but not with PS3. All other ports do not crush dark details

-Has 2 to 3 frames input lag due to a MUCH better than average scaler.

-If you can get it for a good price it will exceed expectations.

- Has some (if not THE) most consistent vertical viewing angles I've ever seen on a MVA monitors. Has typical MVA horizontal contrast shift.

If you need any more information head over to HardForums and look up the L2410NM thread.

The L2610NW is the new TN-based 26" version of this monitor and is absolute garbage whereas the L2410NM has reached almost cult status due to bargain price and capability recently.

Regards,

10e

Thanks for the info. I guess I'd consider recommending it.

How is the response time on it? Also some people had issues with hooking it up with certain cards? Sorry, I really haven't been following the 30 page HF thread.

 

[patrickj]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: patrickj
I'd like to buy one of the recommended LCD's, but have a problem buying something sight unseen. I don't game, but do a lot of work with Photoshop Lightroom. I need accurate colors and a display that calibrates well. My preference is a 24", any suggestions? Anybody know what type of panel is in this?

That's a TN panel.

The brick and mortar stores pretty much carry nothing but TNs so you won't be finding photo editing displays there.

You may have to order something from Dell, which I believe authorizes refunds for LCDs.

Do you have any recommendations that are not on the first page? I like the form factor of a 22" since that is about the biggest I can put on my desk. Although, it seems from reading the specs of a few 24" LCD's s that the width isn't much greater on a 24. It looks like the height is greater. How much would I be losing/gaining if I went with the Viewsonic VX2435WM? I'm considering the Viewsonic, the Dell 2007FP, and the HP 2065. Which is better for what I'll be doing and of the HP and Dell, which would you recommend? Also, what did you use to determine that panel is a TN? I wasn't able to find any info.

Thanks.

 

[patrickj]

Originally posted by: 10e
I would think he is referring to the LG L245WP or L246WP, which is now unofficially discontinued. I can tell this because he mentioned it had a DVI to HDMI cable, and the L245/6WP only has an HDMI digital input.

The W2452T is 100% TN panel with DVI instead of HDMI.

Someone on HardForums (Gar818) said that he gets a lot of banding on his L227WT if he turns the contrast to below 70, and it goes away when contrast is higher.

That LG W2600H-PF is also a TN panel. It's the LG W2600H that is supposedly coming with S-IPS, but expect it to be at least $250.00 more than that one.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: patrickj

Originally posted by: devilchrist
I have the 24" LG flatron LCD and I love it. Only reason I chose this over the Samsung 245BW is because every review said it was not a TN panel.

Thanks for the clarification...good information.

I don't see it on your list though. It's s much better than the Samsung and Dell (I've had both)


It comes with DVI to HDMI cable.

GOOD:
Great colors,
Very fast, no input lag,
Very little ghosting.
8-bit panel (As far as i've researched)
Not TN

BAD:
not alot of connection options,
only 2 USB ports
RBG, HDMI, S-Cable
RGB connection just plain suck. Lot of flicker and dithering.

Are you referring to the LG W2452T-TF ? If so, where did you find information about the panel? I tried to find panel info on the LG 24" and 26" at Best Buy, but the haven't been able to. I have the 22"227WTG-PF which is nice looking until you turn it on. The whole thing seems to be blaring and the color banding is more than I can tolerate. My CRT died and I had to buy something and had some best buy gift cards.

I'd like to buy one of the recommended LCD's, but have a problem buying something sight unseen. I don't game, but do a lot of work with Photoshop Lightroom. I need accurate colors and a display that calibrates well. My preference is a 24", any suggestions? Anybody know what type of panel is in this?

Thanks for the informative response. I appreciate it since I haven't needed to buy a monitor for quite some time and a bit out of the loop on LCD technology.

 

[panfist]

Hey...I'm not about to read through 200 pages to see if this question may have been covered, so if anyone could please answer:

Is there any kind of benchmark or video demo that will clearly show me how ugly my 6-bit panel is?

I just recently learned about 6 and 8 bit panels, and that I have a 6 bit. I always thought I was picky about this kind of thing, and thought that my display looked pretty damn good for the price I paid. This might be one of those cases where ignorance is bliss, and maybe I don't want to become enlightened. Nope...I do. I want to see how crappy 6 bit looks so that I can begin jonesing for my next purchase.

I also have a CRT on my desk right next to my LCD so I can compare the same image or video demo side by side. I've always known the CRT had much nicer color reproduction, but I didn't think it was the difference between over 10 million colors, and under 1 million colors.

 

[redlinez33]

Heres a little hint. If you are satisfied, dont worry about it unless you do professional image work.

If you still want to worry about it, what monitor do you have right now?

 

[panfist]

It's a westinghouse lcm22w2 I got for $200 on black friday 2006.

I don't do professional image work but I love watching movies and I would like my next monitor to be ideal for that. Also my girlfriend is an artist so she occaisionally fires up the old CRT when she needs to photoshop some stuff. It would be nice if we could get that off the desk.

I know it's not the best the deal is sweet. The TN-ness of it kinda bothers me when I'm laying in bed watching a movie or something and my head is like 3 feet lower than it is when I'm sitting at my desk and the dark colors go all inverted and washed out. So I'm not 100% happy with it right now.

edit: Oh another thing I don't like about my monitor is that very light colors, like almost white very easily blend in with white when I'm looking at head height. This is really annoying when I'm looking at lists of stuff lines alternate between white and some light color, to help you read the lines. It looks all white unless I view it off-angle. I never even noticed that some lists had alternating colors until months after.

 

[redlinez33]

well.... Whats your budget for your next monitor?

 

[Gast]

[Insert redundant recommendation here]

Edit: Didn't see the last page of posts >_<

 

[pilafi]

Originally posted by: panfist
Is there any kind of benchmark or video demo that will clearly show me how ugly my 6-bit panel is?

Take a look at this. On 6-bit panels those images will have dithering patterns. Some panels are better at dithering than others, and it's possible that you don't notice it. The TN panel I have at work is quite good at this, but I can still notice the dithering artifacts if I look carefully. My previous 6-bit PVA panel was worse and I could clearly see the dithering patterns. My VX2435wm (8-bit MVA) is the best of them and I can't see any patterns. That said, it doesn't matter, unless you're doing photo editing or other professional image work.

Originally posted by: panfist
Oh another thing I don't like about my monitor is that very light colors, like almost white very easily blend in with white when I'm looking at head height.

That's the limited viewing angles of TN panels and what I hate most on them. Colors tend to look washed out, as if they blend to white as you look lower. It's easy to notice on a solid background color. It's darker at the top and brighter (although contrast is lower) at the bottom. VA panels have colour/gamma-shift but the picture is much more stable overall.

 

[Oppear]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Oppear
Hello, have been reading the new and older lcd thread here and am interested in a new lcd aswell.

xtknight, If I'm not mistaken, You've had a Samsung 710T in the past, and upgraded for Nec LCD20WGX². If so , then were there some aspects You liked better on the 710T, like maybe reaction times? The reason I'm asking is because I've got one atm. Would want to know how major would be the difference.

The difference is incredible. Everything about it is better, basically.

First, the 710T has dim colors and a fuzzy anti-glare coating. The 20WMXG2 is glossy and has very vibrant colors. It also doesn't dither like the 710T does, so grays are more pure.

Response time is a good amount faster since the NEC uses overdrive.

And it has a lot more multimedia inputs.

Was thinking of getting a 20" 1600x1200 or 22" wide. If I'm not mistaken, there is no actual need for going 21" 4:3 since they have the same pixelcount, right?
As far as money goes, the cost of the 2070NX or 20WGX2 wouldn't be a big problem.

Would be using it for movies and photo images mainly.

What would be a good IPS panel these days?

Tnx.

Well your only option for any IPS panel whatsoever under $500 is the HP LP2065, even then not guaranteed S-IPS. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824176053&Tpk=lp2065

But it's a very decent screen and still a very nice upgrade from the 710T. I have used the 2007FP, which has the same panel as the LP2065.

Give that a try. It's a good deal. 21" panels deliver bigger font size and image, that's all, no more pixels.

Thank you for the advice.

Unfortunately, I can not find the LP2065 and 2007FP models in my country at all atm, there is 2007WFP though.

Still, I think I would prefer a 4:3 model with 1600x1200 pixels and was wondering, what about the NEC 2070NX or 2170NX. Lets assume I can pay more, then what would be the next choice/s up to 800-1000$?

Tnx.

Edit.Just remembered that 2070NX contrast and brightness wasn't the best in some test... so this could be a problem.

 

[ericinho]

XTknight: http://www.monitorsrc.com/ (resources: blogs) doesn't work anymore (for quite some time now).

 

[seymsag]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Well from 10e's post it sounds like the PS3's problem. So in that case, there's not much you can do.

Thanks for the help.
It would be good if there was a way to override osd settings through xp ,though.

 

[panfist]

Originally posted by: pilafi
Take a look at this. On 6-bit panels those images will have dithering patterns. Some panels are better at dithering than others, and it's possible that you don't notice it.

That said, it doesn't matter, unless you're doing photo editing or other professional image work.

I'm not expert, but if I had to grade my monitor on dithering I would give it a B+, according to the image you showed. The big white -> black gradient looked much better than the examples they showed of how bad dithering or banding would look...maybe that's because my monitor is dithering and banding in addition to it being exaggerated in the image. Anyway, I see some pretty subtle bands and the dithering is almost not noticeable from how far my head normally is from the monitor: 30".

I also tried to test my monitor with the white saturation page. My monitor totally sucks at that. When my eyes are perpendicular to the monitor and the top of my head is even with the top of the monitor, I only see a checkerboard on ONE of the squares. If I lower my head so my cheek is flat against the desk (lol) I only see checkerboards on the top row.

That said, is it really ONLY useful for professional photo work? If I want the best picture quality for watching movies, I know my monitor can do better. It looks pretty good to me, but it's nothing compared to my parents' DLP TV, which I can notice a huge difference even though they are not side by side. I guess to answer this question I just need to read more and test displays in the store. It's probably unfair to compare LCD to DLP, but it just proves to me that there are lots of trade-offs to using a 2" thick display that maybe I won't make next time when I move out of this tiny apartment. There aren't really many alternatives available for computer monitors, though.

Here's another question, wouldn't it make more sense for the 8-bit to 6-bit conversion to take place in the video card? I'm sure that there is better hardware in the video card for that. Also, why would I bother trying to render stuff in 1680x1050x32 when I really only have 1680x1050x18 colors available to me. I definitely notice more colors when I choose to render in 32-bit over 16-bit. I'm guessing this has to do with the fundamental limitations of computer hardware, that you can only use powers of 2 for your bit-depth when 3d rendering. On the other hand, if it's possible, I could save a lot of vRAM for adding more texture detail or AA or the like.

Redlinez33: were you asking me about my budget? I haven't set a number yet, I usually don't really have a number in mind and try to find a "sweet spot" where you're not paying exorbitant top-of-the-line prices, but still getting close to top-of-the-line performance. Also, if I don't find a good value in an LCD monitor in the next couple months I'm just not going to buy one and get a new TV instead...whether that will be DLP, LCD, plasma...I don't even know at this point.

 

[Oppear]

Originally posted by: panfist

Redlinez33: were you asking me about my budget? I haven't set a number yet, I usually don't really have a number in mind and try to find a "sweet spot" where you're not paying exorbitant top-of-the-line prices, but still getting close to top-of-the-line performance. Also, if I don't find a good value in an LCD monitor in the next couple months I'm just not going to buy one and get a new TV instead...whether that will be DLP, LCD, plasma...I don't even know at this point.

You would buy the plasma, don't much know about the DLP but still, plasma is the best, no comparison, even with led lcd.

 

[panfist]

Well DLP isn't thin, it's a projection TV so it's in a whole other class, but picture quality far surpasses anything you can get from a thin, flat display. Also, power consumption of a 50" DLP is about 50-75% less than a 50" plasma.

 

[Oppear]

This tv talk gets off topic, but if You can live with narrow viewing angle, large box-i tv, the bulb burning out, then why not. If not then the knew 50" plasmas have gotten a perfect 10 picture quality in reviews. What more do you want? Bigger? Then projectors are Your answer.