[Retired] The LCD Thread

[mikuto]

Hi, xtknight,

It's been a while since I've posted here, but I've been following the updates to your guide - excellent stuff, as always.

I've just come across this press release, and I was wondering if you knew about it.

NEC LCD Technologies Announces New 22.5-inch LCD Module

'UA-SFT'?! What the heck is that?

Otherwise, it looks like the typical panel for over-1000-dollar monitors, but who knows, maybe... [crosssing fingers behind back].

Cheers!

 

[Epix]

Need more DS-263N impressions!!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ericinho
Size matters

I am looking for a 19" (either 4:3 or widescreen) to function in portrait mode (so needs to be able to pivot and be height adjustable, and DVI would be nice as well) as secondairy screen next to a bigger primary screen.
Apart from using it as 'Adobe panel' screen and reference screen, I will probably also use it sometimes for dvd playing and some games.

So what I am looking for is a LCD (either TN or PVA) which has the most bang for the buck... so a good price/quality ratio.

Which screen could you advice me?

19"s are 5:4 so you're not going to reap too many benefits by going in portrait mode. But, nonetheless:

The HP LP1965 is the best deal I can think of right now. The Samsung 940T is also decent (if you can find the 6 ms model), as is the ViewSonic VP930b. Beyond that, you don't have much other choice. All these are VA displays.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: coreyb
I bought the BenQ G2400W yesterday. Love the monitor! However, I downloaded a colour profile off a website for this monitor and I'm not too sure what to do with it! Can anyone help me get this profile going so I can get the most out of my new purchase?

I would love to, however there are already many threads on this you should look at.

Please check this article: http://www.digitalversus.com/article-424-2900-141.html

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Oppear

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Oppear
Just, wondering, is there any other decent 24" ISP panel besides nec's 2490wuxi, which is not for sale in Europe? So far S-PVA seams the only option. Lacie 324 or eizo 2431 come to mind.

The Hazro 24" is an S-IPS although I'm not sure in which parts of Europe it is available. TFTCentral has a review on it.

That one is not available here, and I don't prefer ordering from the net aswell. But, as mentioned above, the Apple 23 model is in stores. Price is the same as eizo 2431 here. The apple model is more about desing and style which isn't necessarily a good thing as far as PQ goes but would the ips panel outperform the s-pva?

Yes, S-IPS panels always outperform S-PVAs in certain categories like color shift. Chances are it is better for photo editing overall.

Edit. I have read some reviews and the aren't particularly fond of the apple. One claiming the eizo(CE240W) being better at the same price and when operating on a PC, many properties would be locked. But atleast I get to look at the ips panel in stores, which is the only possible option to do so atm.

Many of these reviewers probably don't even notice color shift so I would consider this when reading these reviews. Passing up an S-IPS panel for an S-PVA is generally not wise.

Here the CE240W is ~$1700 and the Apple 23" ~$900 USD.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: loki5667
I currently have a Dell 2001FP and have decided that it's time to get a WS lcd. I was checking out the HP w2207 22" on TD since it is only 249 at the moment.
Reading thru some posts here some people say it's great, while other are saying that the bleeding is really bad. Is this just hit or miss or should I stay away?

Before I pull the trigger I wanted to get a few opinions or maybe some info on other models I should look into.

Thanks in advance

I have also heard of lots of bleeding on the w2207 model; I believe this 22" TN has more than the average. So, if you feel that is a concern for you I would veer towards other screens. A more expensive panel might even give you a better value, so consider this.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: 10e
BTW all,

For those interested in the Samsung 2493HM vs. the BenQ G2400W, I can tell you right now, as I have the two sitting beside each other, the BenQ is far superior in my eyes. Here's a quick synopsis:

1) BenQ has better out-of-box colors. The Samsung has oversaturated reds (typical of wide gamut panels) that turn the dark greys to brown.
2) BenQ handles consoles over HDMI and VGA much better. Its only disadvantage is that it (the G2400W) will not go into power save mode over HDMI, where the Samsung will. The BenQ can do 1:1 pixel mapping over HDMI with PCs and consoles, the Samsung cannot do this with consoles, and can only do it with PCs set at 1920x1200 resolution
3) The BenQ scales resolutions with less input lag. The Samsung is fast at 1920x1200, but at lower resolutions, because its scaler is doing more work, it's slowing down more. 1 frame slower 30% of the time at 1680x1050, 2 frames 30% of the time @ 1280x1024
4) The BenQ is much better with dark colors. Playing Condemned 2 on the 360 over VGA on the Samsung was difficult due to dark detail washout.
5) BenQ has very slightly better vertical viewing angles.

The Samsung is a good monitor, but as a PC + console monitor cannot still compare to the BenQ. The Samsung will be returned soon.

FYI

10e

Nice. Thanks for this overview, and you probably won't see the Samsung going on my list anytime soon then, unless it is to replace the 245BW placed below the G2400W.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: mikuto
Hi, xtknight,

It's been a while since I've posted here, but I've been following the updates to your guide - excellent stuff, as always.

I've just come across this press release, and I was wondering if you knew about it.

NEC LCD Technologies Announces New 22.5-inch LCD Module

'UA-SFT'?! What the heck is that?

Otherwise, it looks like the typical panel for over-1000-dollar monitors, but who knows, maybe... [crosssing fingers behind back].

Cheers!

UA-SFT is Ultra Advanced Super-Fine TFT, which is just NEC's name for an S-IPS (maybe H-IPS) panel, which I suppose you could call super fine. Certainly not superbad.

It does look brilliant though (120 Hz/wide gamut/nice brightness). I wonder if it will ever see itself being implemented in consumer products.

 

[loki5667]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I have also heard of lots of bleeding on the w2207 model; I believe this 22" TN has more than the average. So, if you feel that is a concern for you I would veer towards other screens. A more expensive panel might even give you a better value, so consider this.

How about the Dell SP2208WFP? I was looking at their website and it looks good as far as the specs. The addition of hdmi would also be nice.

I'm trying to keep the price down if possible. I mainly use my rig for gaming & basic things. I can honestly say that I'd never watch a movie on the computer.

 

[xtknight]

There is a new X-Bit Labs 22" review here, but I haven't had time to read through it yet: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../display/22inch-2.html

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: loki5667

Originally posted by: xtknight
I have also heard of lots of bleeding on the w2207 model; I believe this 22" TN has more than the average. So, if you feel that is a concern for you I would veer towards other screens. A more expensive panel might even give you a better value, so consider this.

How about the Dell SP2208WFP? I was looking at their website and it looks good as far as the specs. The addition of hdmi would also be nice.

HDMI is basically the same as DVI with the right adapter (cheap) so this probably shouldn't be a big factor in your decision. As long as the DVI supports HDCP you're set for any HDMI HDCP device too.

The Dell hasn't gotten real great reviews that I can remember. Remember, you probably shouldn't pay attention to specs. By this you are just determining how good their marketing team is. Check the review on the similar Dell E228WFP model and you'll know what I mean (second-rate response time): http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ay/22inch_4.html#sect0

See if the 22"s in the OP are suitable for you. The LG L227WT is the best 22" TN choice right now by a landslide, IMO. It is a glossy panel just like the w2207 you were eying.

And yes the LG is phenomenal for gaming. (0 lag that we can tell.)

 

[loki5667]

Thanks for the info!

 

[cheinonen]

Originally posted by: Epix
Need more DS-263N impressions!!

Well, if Buy.com would get it back in stock, I'd order one and post impressions (it will go along with my Dell 2005FPW), but they aren't going to get them back until the end of this month or early May I believe, but I'll order one when they do.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Just what are the advantages of buying a BenQ G2400W to the samsung 245bw? Does it matter which one you buy because the difference is noticeable?

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: mikuto
Hi, xtknight,

It's been a while since I've posted here, but I've been following the updates to your guide - excellent stuff, as always.

I've just come across this press release, and I was wondering if you knew about it.

NEC LCD Technologies Announces New 22.5-inch LCD Module

'UA-SFT'?! What the heck is that?

Otherwise, it looks like the typical panel for over-1000-dollar monitors, but who knows, maybe... [crosssing fingers behind back].

Cheers!

UA-SFT is Ultra Advanced Super-Fine TFT, which is just NEC's name for an S-IPS (maybe H-IPS) panel, which I suppose you could call super fine. Certainly not superbad.

It does look brilliant though (120 Hz/wide gamut/nice brightness). I wonder if it will ever see itself being implemented in consumer products.

It shows as 1080P Also and 22" which seems really new and nice.

 

[Doctor W]

Originally posted by: Epix
Need more DS-263N impressions!!

Seems like everyone is out of stock at the moment, except maybe newegg, which isn't really recommended for buying LCD's since their return policy is really strict.

I got mine from buy.com and sent it back for a replacement, of course now they're out of stock.

The four big things for me are:

A) The display is gorgeous with the polarizer, but when everyone gets new stock at the end of the month, will they still have it? It's hard to say, could have been a one-time thing with the panels being diverted from the NEC 2690 to meet demand, or it could be a permanent change in the model. No way to know until the next shipments arrive from China. Doublesight consistently claims the model does not have a polarizer.

B) Backlight bleed is consistent, at least on all the polarizer models. It's about a 3-4" wide area in the top right, mostly visible when watching movies that letterbox.

C) The H-IPS really has a tendency for bad pixels and/or small polarizer defects. Don't expect to get one that's perfect, though a few people obviously have.

D) Wide Gamut absolutely sucks unless you're a photographer that shoots RAW and even then only if you need to process things for CMYK print. Even with color management in Firefox 3 and setting up a shader in Media Player Classic for correction it's still a hassle. Having to deal with banding to get correct sRGB is stupid.

Given that there's no way to know if the new models will have polarizers I'm going to try to get buy.com to cancel my replacement before they ship and just refund me. I'll either wait until the next thing (FED/SED?), or if mine dies get a LCD2490 or maybe Dell 30".

 

[kentsfield]

Does NEC 20WGX2 pro support hdcp?

 

[TempletonPeck]

With the LG L227WT how are the RTC errors?

 

[redlinez33]

I must got an almost perfect DS-263N.... Only slight backlight bleeding in the bottom right, otherwise perfect....

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: Doctor W

Originally posted by: Epix
Need more DS-263N impressions!!

C) The H-IPS really has a tendency for bad pixels and/or small polarizer defects. Don't expect to get one that's perfect, though a few people obviously have.

This is the real takeaway for me. I got one that's nearly perfect and never knew this model was a risky buy when I was considering it, but after reading the recent buyers' impressions would I be excited about dropping $800 to get one of these shipped to me? Probably not.

I guess it comes down to what people are willing to do for a good fit. If you can stand a TN, the bang-for-the-buck G2400W is the safer bet. If you really do need an IPS, the NECs are probably a better idea. The 263n is for people who really need IPS, but can't go past $800, need low input lag, or are comfortable rolling the dice on the return process. And if you do think you want to order one, you should wait until the polarizer is confirmed to be on the next batch.

 

[redlinez33]

even without the polarizer, for $700 its a good deal....... The Planar is still $900+ and is pretty much the same thing, just height adjustable stand, and better customer service....

 

[patrickj]

Is there a way to tell what type of panel is in the Dell Ultrasharp 2007FP? It seems like you can get them off of ebay for a reasonable price, and if I have read the forum correctly, the panel is the same type as the HP 2065. My preference is to get a IPS panel and I'm not sure if the sellers know what they have or not. Any advice or assistance would be appreciated. Also, is there something on the HP 2065 box that indicates the panel is S-IPS? I've seen these on ebay for good prices too.

Thanks.

 

[infinitesymphony]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: infinitesymphony
Is there any point to refresh rates higher than 60 Hz with a LCD monitor? It seems like the slowness of the response time would swamp the frame rate increase...

Most LCDs don't support >60 Hz anyway but the ones that do generally yield a beneficial effect in moving images. (Look up 120 Hz LCDs which just interpolate between two 60 Hz frames and drive the crystals twice as fast, reducing ghosting by half).

Okay, follow-up question... Are there any negatives to running LCDs at higher refresh rates? I've seen significant image quality degradation in some CRTs when changing the refresh rate, for example higher refresh rates causing the screen to look blurry. Also, I've heard that a higher refresh rate can decrease the lifespan of the tube (but I'm not sure if this is true). Are there similar gotchas for LCD panels?

 

[Deinonych]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
I must got an almost perfect DS-263N.... Only slight backlight bleeding in the bottom right, otherwise perfect....

I hate you.

Actually, mine is perfect except for the usual backlight bleed in the upper right corner, so I'm really not complaining. I love the display.

 

[BassBomb]

Originally posted by: kentsfield
Does NEC 20WGX2 pro support hdcp?

Yes over DVI