[Retired] The LCD Thread

[ericinho]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ericinho
Size matters

I am looking for a 19" (either 4:3 or widescreen) to function in portrait mode (so needs to be able to pivot and be height adjustable, and DVI would be nice as well) as secondairy screen next to a bigger primary screen.
Apart from using it as 'Adobe panel' screen and reference screen, I will probably also use it sometimes for dvd playing and some games.

So what I am looking for is a LCD (either TN or PVA) which has the most bang for the buck... so a good price/quality ratio.

Which screen could you advice me?

19"s are 5:4 so you're not going to reap too many benefits by going in portrait mode. But, nonetheless:

The HP LP1965 is the best deal I can think of right now. The Samsung 940T is also decent (if you can find the 6 ms model), as is the ViewSonic VP930b. Beyond that, you don't have much other choice. All these are VA displays.

8 ms Samsung 19" 940T... isn't that the Samsung 940Fn ?
Anyway, that one 'does' 333 EURO... slightly steep for a 19" I guess.

The Samsung Syncmaster 913TM and Samsung 917P are also a PVA, but 300 EURO.

LG basically has NO newer 19" VA panels, only TN, same goes for BenQ (at least not available in The Netherlands).

Viewsonic has the ViewSonic VP930 (in Holland the B is missing?!), also around 300 EURO.
> and considering that this particular panel was slain here in Holland for backlight bleeding, poor blacks and bland colors.

Philips has the 190P7EG (8ms G2G, 19" AU Optronics P-MVA) and 190P7ES/00 (8ms G2G 19" AU Optronics P-MVA), selling for around 260 EURO.

But I don't know if these are any good?

Belinea has the Belinea 1980 S2 (8ms G2G, 19" AU Optronics P-MVA): but also here I have no idea if this screen is any good???

Any ideas?
(in any case, you suggest I should avoid TN panels like the plague?)

 

[Oppear]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Oppear
That one is not available here, and I don't prefer ordering from the net aswell. But, as mentioned above, the Apple 23 model is in stores. Price is the same as eizo 2431 here. The apple model is more about desing and style which isn't necessarily a good thing as far as PQ goes but would the ips panel outperform the s-pva?

Yes, S-IPS panels always outperform S-PVAs in certain categories like color shift. Chances are it is better for photo editing overall.

Edit. I have read some reviews and the aren't particularly fond of the apple. One claiming the eizo(CE240W) being better at the same price and when operating on a PC, many properties would be locked. But atleast I get to look at the ips panel in stores, which is the only possible option to do so atm.

Many of these reviewers probably don't even notice color shift so I would consider this when reading these reviews. Passing up an S-IPS panel for an S-PVA is generally not wise.

Here the CE240W is ~$1700 and the Apple 23" ~$900 USD.

It's not easy to find an IPS panel display with reasonable size. I would really like to have the 2490wuxi but there is only 2690wuxi from nec that I can consider.

Here is a picture I found where the left one is Eizo HD2441W and the 2690 to the right.
http://www.toastyx.net/hd2441w/eizo-nec-center.jpg

xtknight, in the 2690wuxi review You didn't notice the screen door effect from a "reasonable" distance. Approximatly how far back do You have to be for that, and would about 0.6 meters be ok? Or You can compare it to Your old 20" screen for pixel size, do You miss the smaller pixel size?

Hows the color saturation and would You still recommend buying it? )

 

[godelescherbach]

New to the forum- first thanks to xtknight and all other contributors to this thread. I've been reading the thread for a couple of weeks and finally decided to get a Dell 2007wfp. Most posts here and elsewhere seem to indicate that you have a good chance of getting an S-IPS panel currently. Here is a link that helps determine the type of panel: 2007 wfp I got mine yesterday and it has a serial number ending in L, and service panel showing RT803.

Great monitor! Upgraded from a Ultrasharp 1800FP. Extra screen real estate is great. One thing I didn't realize is that there is a significantly smaller font size going from the 1800FP to the 2007wfp - kind of like going from a 15" CRT to the 1800FP

Guess the eyes just need to get used to it. Got a good panel, no dead pixels. I was interested in a panel with anti-glare coating because of high light. The coating seems comparable to the coating on the 1800FP. Monitor is very bright, I have the brightness set down to 20. Default color settings seem fine to me- just using it for basic home use. Text is very clear.

I sometimes have several people looking at the screen, and occasionally view the screen from the floor so I didn't want a TN panel. (Not a gamer- input lag not an issue)

Would not have been able to make an informed decision without this thread, thanks again!

 

[kentsfield]

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: kentsfield
Does NEC 20WGX2 pro support hdcp?

Yes over DVI

Are you sure? I have PRO (european) version.

 

[skilletlicker]

Can I use any monitor in portrait mode if I mount it with a different stand? Is it going to do any damage to a monitor that isn't sold as portrait capable to flip it sideways?

Thanks.

 

[Deinonych]

Originally posted by: skilletlicker
Can I use any monitor in portrait mode if I mount it with a different stand? Is it going to do any damage to a monitor that isn't sold as portrait capable to flip it sideways?

Thanks.

Depends on the monitor and the mounting plate for the stand. As long as it is securely attached, it should be fine.

 

[v8envy]

Originally posted by: Deinonych

Originally posted by: skilletlicker
Can I use any monitor in portrait mode if I mount it with a different stand? Is it going to do any damage to a monitor that isn't sold as portrait capable to flip it sideways?

Thanks.

Depends on the monitor and the mounting plate for the stand. As long as it is securely attached, it should be fine.

Are you positive? Many monitors have vents on top, and are engineered to exhaust quite a bit of heat through convection. Placing it on the side may have the heat escaping where it wasn't meant to go, or worse (better?) yet -- not escaping at all.

 

[Squidmaster]

I just purchased a Doublesight DS-263N from newegg myself. It arrived today in a box that is clearly old. It has patches of color missing, some dents, and is generally quite crummy. Does Newegg sometimes ship in old packaging to recycle returned boxes or should I be worried? In any case I'm not opening anything yet.

 

[muppet22]

i'd be worried about not getting a polarizer if i were you

 

[Squidmaster]

Why? Because the box has seen better days? I'm still not sure if I should open it or not.

 

[asintu]

Samsung 245BW vs. BenQ G2400W

I've found both monitors for the same price..about $370.

Which one is a better buy image quality/speed/overall?

 

[10e]

Both are low in regards to input lag, with the BenQ at 0 to 5ms and the 245BW at under 10ms.

Panel speed should be the same. Neither has a ghosting issue and motion blur is quite good for LCDs.

Colors on the BenQ are better out of the box.

Vertical viewing angles on the BenQ are slightly better as well.

BenQ has DVI, HDMI and VGA whereas the 245BW has only one DVI and VGA.

The Samsung has a better stand with height adjustability and a slightly nicer control button location.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: asintu
Samsung 245BW vs. BenQ G2400W

I've found both monitors for the same price..about $370.

Which one is a better buy image quality/speed/overall?

 

[muppet22]

hey 10e - i got the g2400w last night and i noticed that gamma seems to be lower than it should be (1.8 instead of 2.2), at least using lagom.nl's test. is yours like this too?

 

[PsylockeSmythe]

Question, I don't upgrade monitors very often (about every 5 to 6 years) and I was wondering which would be the better upgrade.

Costco has the Samsung 24" 245BW for $399.99 or go to Circuit City and pay $329.99 and get the Samsung 22" 2253BW. I'm trying to figure out if it is worth the extra 70 bucks to get the 24" instead of the 22"

I pretty much just play games (mostly RTS) a few FPS, surf, use Office type apps and Fold on this PC.

Thanks,

Psy

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cookie Monster
Just what are the advantages of buying a BenQ G2400W to the samsung 245bw? Does it matter which one you buy because the difference is noticeable?

Well the G2400W is simply better overall: better response, better colors, and slightly better viewing angles from what I've heard. It also has scaling options.

See for yourself the comparison: http://www.digitalversus.com/d...8&mo2=304&p2=2943&ph=1

 

[TempletonPeck]

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
With the LG L227WT how are the RTC errors?

Anyone?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: patrickj
Is there a way to tell what type of panel is in the Dell Ultrasharp 2007FP? It seems like you can get them off of ebay for a reasonable price, and if I have read the forum correctly, the panel is the same type as the HP 2065. My preference is to get a IPS panel and I'm not sure if the sellers know what they have or not. Any advice or assistance would be appreciated. Also, is there something on the HP 2065 box that indicates the panel is S-IPS? I've seen these on ebay for good prices too.

Thanks.

You should be able to find comprehensive answers to these questions with a search of this thread (keywords 2007FP and LP2065).

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
With the LG L227WT how are the RTC errors?

I have never heard of it having RTC errors, so I would assume that they are minimal. Response and lag on the L227WT is reputed to be great.

 

[TempletonPeck]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
With the LG L227WT how are the RTC errors?

I have never heard of it having RTC errors, so I would assume that they are minimal. Response and lag on the L227WT is reputed to be great.

Thanks. That's all I was missing in terms of information before I go ahead and buy one.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: infinitesymphony

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: infinitesymphony
Is there any point to refresh rates higher than 60 Hz with a LCD monitor? It seems like the slowness of the response time would swamp the frame rate increase...

Most LCDs don't support >60 Hz anyway but the ones that do generally yield a beneficial effect in moving images. (Look up 120 Hz LCDs which just interpolate between two 60 Hz frames and drive the crystals twice as fast, reducing ghosting by half).

Okay, follow-up question... Are there any negatives to running LCDs at higher refresh rates? I've seen significant image quality degradation in some CRTs when changing the refresh rate, for example higher refresh rates causing the screen to look blurry. Also, I've heard that a higher refresh rate can decrease the lifespan of the tube (but I'm not sure if this is true). Are there similar gotchas for LCD panels?

LCDs do not suffer from the same type of image decay that CRTs would when using the higher refresh rate. I do not believe any sort of long term damage is possible.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ericinho

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ericinho
Size matters

I am looking for a 19" (either 4:3 or widescreen) to function in portrait mode (so needs to be able to pivot and be height adjustable, and DVI would be nice as well) as secondairy screen next to a bigger primary screen.
Apart from using it as 'Adobe panel' screen and reference screen, I will probably also use it sometimes for dvd playing and some games.

So what I am looking for is a LCD (either TN or PVA) which has the most bang for the buck... so a good price/quality ratio.

Which screen could you advice me?

19"s are 5:4 so you're not going to reap too many benefits by going in portrait mode. But, nonetheless:

The HP LP1965 is the best deal I can think of right now. The Samsung 940T is also decent (if you can find the 6 ms model), as is the ViewSonic VP930b. Beyond that, you don't have much other choice. All these are VA displays.

8 ms Samsung 19" 940T... isn't that the Samsung 940Fn ?
Anyway, that one 'does' 333 EURO... slightly steep for a 19" I guess.

The Samsung Syncmaster 913TM and Samsung 917P are also a PVA, but 300 EURO.

LG basically has NO newer 19" VA panels, only TN, same goes for BenQ (at least not available in The Netherlands).

Viewsonic has the ViewSonic VP930 (in Holland the B is missing?!), also around 300 EURO.
> and considering that this particular panel was slain here in Holland for backlight bleeding, poor blacks and bland colors.

Philips has the 190P7EG (8ms G2G, 19" AU Optronics P-MVA) and 190P7ES/00 (8ms G2G 19" AU Optronics P-MVA), selling for around 260 EURO.

But I don't know if these are any good?

Belinea has the Belinea 1980 S2 (8ms G2G, 19" AU Optronics P-MVA): but also here I have no idea if this screen is any good???

Any ideas?
(in any case, you suggest I should avoid TN panels like the plague?)

Off the top of my head I really don't know about the Philips or Belinea models. I would just go with the 971P unless you see the response time problems being an issue. Otherwise, go with the VP930 or research the Philips/Belinea AUOs if you'd like (they aren't US models), but I can't see how they would be any better than the ViewSonic VP930 P-MVA. Default colors is the only thing that might vary but if this is just an LCD for showing a toolbar then it doesn't really matter. I owned a VP930 personally and I think it's decent for a 19".

Originally posted by: Oppear

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Oppear
That one is not available here, and I don't prefer ordering from the net aswell. But, as mentioned above, the Apple 23 model is in stores. Price is the same as eizo 2431 here. The apple model is more about desing and style which isn't necessarily a good thing as far as PQ goes but would the ips panel outperform the s-pva?

Yes, S-IPS panels always outperform S-PVAs in certain categories like color shift. Chances are it is better for photo editing overall.

Edit. I have read some reviews and the aren't particularly fond of the apple. One claiming the eizo(CE240W) being better at the same price and when operating on a PC, many properties would be locked. But atleast I get to look at the ips panel in stores, which is the only possible option to do so atm.

Many of these reviewers probably don't even notice color shift so I would consider this when reading these reviews. Passing up an S-IPS panel for an S-PVA is generally not wise.

Here the CE240W is ~$1700 and the Apple 23" ~$900 USD.

It's not easy to find an IPS panel display with reasonable size. I would really like to have the 2490wuxi but there is only 2690wuxi from nec that I can consider.

Here is a picture I found where the left one is Eizo HD2441W and the 2690 to the right.
http://www.toastyx.net/hd2441w/eizo-nec-center.jpg

xtknight, in the 2690wuxi review You didn't notice the screen door effect from a "reasonable" distance. Approximatly how far back do You have to be for that, and would about 0.6 meters be ok? Or You can compare it to Your old 20" screen for pixel size, do You miss the smaller pixel size?

Hows the color saturation and would You still recommend buying it? )

Well that's going to vary a lot per person, and I also wear glasses so perhaps this complicates things. 0.6 meters would definitely be enough. I much prefer the LCD26's bigger text size, actually. I find the NEC 20"'s text too small for my taste. There's actually not that much difference but enough for me to prefer the 26"; maybe it has something to do with the coatings also. I find myself liking the matte on the LCD26 more than I thought.

The color saturation is amazing although the LCD24 standard gamut is still a great choice for most people concerned with editing photos. A considerably better choice than the LCD26 obviously because the LCD26's wide gamut causes trouble with standard sRGB material as I cover in my review.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: skilletlicker
Can I use any monitor in portrait mode if I mount it with a different stand? Is it going to do any damage to a monitor that isn't sold as portrait capable to flip it sideways?

Thanks.

I'd think so, as long as the monitor were attached securely.

Originally posted by: asintu
Samsung 245BW vs. BenQ G2400W

I've found both monitors for the same price..about $370.

Which one is a better buy image quality/speed/overall?

G2400W easily for reasons 10e has repeated.

Originally posted by: PsylockeSmythe
Question, I don't upgrade monitors very often (about every 5 to 6 years) and I was wondering which would be the better upgrade.

Costco has the Samsung 24" 245BW for $399.99 or go to Circuit City and pay $329.99 and get the Samsung 22" 2253BW. I'm trying to figure out if it is worth the extra 70 bucks to get the 24" instead of the 22"

I pretty much just play games (mostly RTS) a few FPS, surf, use Office type apps and Fold on this PC.

Thanks,

Psy

I would say this is not the best idea. 24" TNs suffer from worse perceived viewing angle due to the size, and the 2253BW may be a better panel for games because of better characteristics (overdrive), and the lower res is easier on your graphics card.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: kentsfield

Originally posted by: BassBomb

Originally posted by: kentsfield
Does NEC 20WGX2 pro support hdcp?

Yes over DVI

Are you sure? I have PRO (european) version.

It doesn't mention it here:

http://www.nec-display-solutio...o/index,group=all.html

But I guess you could email the NEC reps in your country to be sure.

 

[10e]

I see with this on both the G2400W and the Samsung 2493HM monitors. Maybe TN and this test aren't as compatible as they should be, methinks.

Neither is overly dark, and both are relatively accurate in color representation. I'm not sure about those tests. They aren't always that "universal".


For example, only my TV and my Dell can do the inversion tests without flashing, and both are S-IPS panels.

But I've never experienced flashing with any monitor in real life, so take them with a grain of salt.

Enjoy!

10e

Originally posted by: muppet22
hey 10e - i got the g2400w last night and i noticed that gamma seems to be lower than it should be (1.8 instead of 2.2), at least using lagom.nl's test. is yours like this too?

 

[patrickj]

Any idea if this panel is TN? I can't find it using the panel lookup tools in the first posting.

Thanks.

 

[10e]

Yup,

www.tftcentral.co.uk has a panel database that confirms this.

Though it looks to be a good quality Samsung TN panel, it's still TN.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: patrickj
Any idea if this panel is TN? I can't find it using the panel lookup tools in the first posting.

Thanks.