[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: patrickj
Any idea if this panel is TN? I can't find it using the panel lookup tools in the first posting.

Thanks.

Yup, at that price it would have to be.

 

[patrickj]

I wasn't able to find that, but looked around a bit more and did find where you got your info. Thanks again.

Originally posted by: 10e
Yup,

www.tftcentral.co.uk has a panel database that confirms this.

Though it looks to be a good quality Samsung TN panel, it's still TN.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: patrickj
Any idea if this panel is TN? I can't find it using the panel lookup tools in the first posting.

Thanks.

 

[Gunlance]

Check it out guys: http://www.overstock.com/Elect...i_sku=11146026-000-000

215TW going for $289.99 at overstock.com : ) Grab the legendary monitor while you can!

Boy does this get me a little peeved. I got my Samsung 215TW for $400 I believe; with the great help of this thread and xtknight, sure was a night and day difference the image quality is just superb still. Also I noticed that the NEC 20W...I forget and the Samsung 215TW have been taken off the list of recommended monitors...they just that scarce now? I wanted the NEC over the Samsung but just to expensive...could get a 24" S-IPS practically for it haha.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gunlance
Check it out guys: http://www.overstock.com/Elect...i_sku=11146026-000-000

215TW going for $289.99 at overstock.com : ) Grab the legendary monitor while you can!

Boy does this get me a little peeved. I got my Samsung 215TW for $400 I believe; with the great help of this thread and xtknight, sure was a night and day difference the image quality is just superb still. Also I noticed that the NEC 20W...I forget and the Samsung 215TW have been taken off the list of recommended monitors...they just that scarce now? I wanted the NEC over the Samsung but just to expensive...could get a 24" S-IPS practically for it haha.

Yeah unfortunately the 215TW and 20WMGX2 are very scarce these days.

 

[Gunlance]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Gunlance
Check it out guys: http://www.overstock.com/Elect...i_sku=11146026-000-000

215TW going for $289.99 at overstock.com : ) Grab the legendary monitor while you can!

Boy does this get me a little peeved. I got my Samsung 215TW for $400 I believe; with the great help of this thread and xtknight, sure was a night and day difference the image quality is just superb still. Also I noticed that the NEC 20W...I forget and the Samsung 215TW have been taken off the list of recommended monitors...they just that scarce now? I wanted the NEC over the Samsung but just to expensive...could get a 24" S-IPS practically for it haha.

Yeah unfortunately the 215TW and 20WMGX2 are very scarce these days.

If I could find a 20WMGX2 for less than 500 I am pretty sure I would get one! Use my 215TW as backup or another desk in the future. I have not used dual-monitors since the CRT days.....don't have a need anymore.

I forgot to add that the reason they are so cheap on Overstock is because they are refurbished. Always catch isn't there?

 

[Squidmaster]

After talking with Newegg and getting some great reassurance should my monitor be a dud given the box condition, I installed my DS-263N today. I like it, but it's sooooo bright. What can I do about this?

I installed Toasty's color profile and adjusted to the settings he recommended for his, and also tweaked it myself, but it just feels so bright, even with brightness on 0. Is this par for the course? How can I properly calibrate my specific monitor without buying a colorimeter?

I tried installing a program called "QuickGamma", but I can't get the black levels to settle in anywhere near the 2.2 range it recommends no matter what settings I apply in the program or out. I was able to get the grays to conform I think, which darkened my screen a bit, but I'm not confident this is how it's done properly at all.

Help!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
After talking with Newegg and getting some great reassurance should my monitor be a dud given the box condition, I installed my DS-263N today. I like it, but it's sooooo bright. What can I do about this?

I installed Toasty's color profile and adjusted to the settings he recommended for his, and also tweaked it myself, but it just feels so bright, even with brightness on 0. Is this par for the course? How can I properly calibrate my specific monitor without buying a colorimeter?

Lower brightness and also contrast if you feel it is still too bright.

I tried installing a program called "QuickGamma", but I can't get the black levels to settle in anywhere near the 2.2 range it recommends no matter what settings I apply in the program or out. I was able to get the grays to conform I think, which darkened my screen a bit, but I'm not confident this is how it's done properly at all.

Help!

A colorimeter is needed for fine tuning. Otherwise, your best luck will probably be had by using his profile and not QuickGamma. You can't get it perfect because your unit is slightly different than his; it is unreasonable to expect same results or even similar ones. It is reasonable however to expect results better than default. If the results are not better than default then I recommend ditching the profile.

Regardless, it should still be very satiating color-wise. Unless you can really find a flaw with the color reproduction I would not think a colorimeter is worth it on an LCD that is calibrated decently by default like the DoubleSight H-IPS, unless you do a lot of photo editing. The only reason I use a colorimeter on my LCD2690 (same panel as DoubleSight) is because I'm an enthusiast.

I am a little surprised it doesn't match 2.2 more closely, but whatever. Out of curiosity, what gamma value does it match most closely by default vs with the profile?

 

[Squidmaster]

Without using QuickGamma and looking at the gray bars, it's around 1.8. Thing is, I'm not 100% sure how to read the bars. I understand that the A and B black bars should match their surroundings around 2.2, but for me they are always visible as gray, all the way to the top of the chart. In any case, it's a strain to look without further calibration to tone things down outside of games, even with brightness on 0.

If I tune QuickGamma to 1.91 the gray bars converge around the 2.2 mark and things are a little easier to handle. I still think I'm missing something, but it is also possible I need to adjust to a new screen for a while before I'll really know. Is there a better way to handle this? Is it better to go through video card settings or something? I also have Photoshop CS, which comes with Adobe Gamma. I am not going to go through that process tonight but if it's a good idea I'll get on that soon.

Speaking of games, is it possible to make custom presets? In WoW, brightness looks nice. On the desktop, not so much, so I'd like to just adjust for both at a button press instead of having to use slidebars.

One more question... my monitor arrived before some of my parts so I'm running it on a soon to be rebuilt system using the D-sub port. Will a DVI connection change the way my monitor looks, thus rendering all this moot for a few more days?

Thanks!

 

[DerelictDev]

I just received my BenQ g2400w and I gotta say I'm very impressed.

I was originally thinking about picking up the 25.5": DoubleSight DS-263N, 1920x1200 (16:10) but decided to say myself a good deal of money and go with a TN panel. Unlike some I'm not very picky with lower viewing angles and even some bleeding.

As everyone else has said, the calibration is fairly good right out of the box and the LCd itself is sturdy and seems to be well made. The stand on the other hand is flimsy and doesn't have height adjustment which really doesn't bother me.

I bought this primarly b/c I moved and couldn't bring my 60" HDTV along. This monitor now acts as an all in one system; computer / Cable TV/ & PS3. It has a convenient side audio plug that I attached into my audigy 2 and it all works perfectly.

There are no bad pixels and in my opinion, the viewing angles are more than enough. There is also no or very very minimal bleeding compared to my old LCD's (Samsung 940BX &.... (don't remember the other).

Ghosting was practically non-existant but during massive warzones in COD4, I did witness some motion blur which didn't bother me at all.

My only complaint thus far is that the colors seem to be slightly washed out. I thought it was due to brightness but still doesn't have the same deep black levels my samsung used to have.

Does anyone have or know the optimal settings for the monitor?

Also any specific questions, feel free to ask in the thread or pm me.

 

[10e]

I use the standard or sRGB presets that seem to be accurate, but not overly strong.

I'll usually turn up the color controls in my video card by about 5% to improve saturation. I run mine between 70 and 80 brightness and 45 to 55 contrast depending on my mood and the window behind me. I generally won't go about 70 on contrast because it starts to get overly contrasted really fast at that level.

The black levels aren't as good as PVA/MVA screens, but what I am happy with is the black level detail that I can see. Out of the box, dark games like Condemned 2 over Xbox 360 were easy to play even with the VGA black "expanded" setting which gives most monitors fits (even my Dell 2005FPW). So while the panel suffers less backlight bleed than most TNs it has a bit of a "grayness" to the blacks as opposed to the Samsung with the "blueness".

Regards, and enjoy!

10e

Originally posted by: DerelictDev
I just received my BenQ g2400w and I gotta say I'm very impressed.

I was originally thinking about picking up the 25.5": DoubleSight DS-263N, 1920x1200 (16:10) but decided to say myself a good deal of money and go with a TN panel. Unlike some I'm not very picky with lower viewing angles and even some bleeding.

As everyone else has said, the calibration is fairly good right out of the box and the LCd itself is sturdy and seems to be well made. The stand on the other hand is flimsy and doesn't have height adjustment which really doesn't bother me.

I bought this primarly b/c I moved and couldn't bring my 60" HDTV along. This monitor now acts as an all in one system; computer / Cable TV/ & PS3. It has a convenient side audio plug that I attached into my audigy 2 and it all works perfectly.

There are no bad pixels and in my opinion, the viewing angles are more than enough. There is also no or very very minimal bleeding compared to my old LCD's (Samsung 940BX &.... (don't remember the other).

Ghosting was practically non-existant but during massive warzones in COD4, I did witness some motion blur which didn't bother me at all.

My only complaint thus far is that the colors seem to be slightly washed out. I thought it was due to brightness but still doesn't have the same deep black levels my samsung used to have.

Does anyone have or know the optimal settings for the monitor?

Also any specific questions, feel free to ask in the thread or pm me.

 

[Jumpem]

Does anyone have an opinion on the Soyo 24" Topaz S (DYLM24D6)?

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
After talking with Newegg and getting some great reassurance should my monitor be a dud given the box condition, I installed my DS-263N today. I like it, but it's sooooo bright. What can I do about this?

I installed Toasty's color profile and adjusted to the settings he recommended for his, and also tweaked it myself, but it just feels so bright, even with brightness on 0. Is this par for the course? How can I properly calibrate my specific monitor without buying a colorimeter?

I tried installing a program called "QuickGamma", but I can't get the black levels to settle in anywhere near the 2.2 range it recommends no matter what settings I apply in the program or out. I was able to get the grays to conform I think, which darkened my screen a bit, but I'm not confident this is how it's done properly at all.

Help!

You used all of ToastyX's settings? He had the brightness at 12.5% and all the color gain settings at 100%, but I had to put brightness at 0 and gain at 90.1 for it to be useable. Green offset at 25% still worked for me. Each of these monitors is different so if the picture looks messed up play around with the settings until it looks okay.

If the monitor is just way too bright but still has a good picture, and you can't tone it down without making it look like garbage, you may want to consider lighting up the wall behind the monitor. Even a CRT against a dim wall is a recipe for eye strain and headaches.

Also, I wouldn't worry about the two grey bars in QuickGamma, at all. Just check lagom and make sure black level, white saturation, and contrast are all almost spot on. And, of course, make sure the other bars converge at 2.2 (in QuickGamma).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Jumpem
Does anyone have an opinion on the Soyo 24" Topaz S (DYLM24D6)?

It's a cheap monitor prone to quality control issues, but it does have an 8-bit panel. It is a good choice only if you are ready to deal with problems, however.

..When it works it's a great deal.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Without using QuickGamma and looking at the gray bars, it's around 1.8. Thing is, I'm not 100% sure how to read the bars. I understand that the A and B black bars should match their surroundings around 2.2, but for me they are always visible as gray, all the way to the top of the chart. In any case, it's a strain to look without further calibration to tone things down outside of games, even with brightness on 0.

If I tune QuickGamma to 1.91 the gray bars converge around the 2.2 mark and things are a little easier to handle. I still think I'm missing something, but it is also possible I need to adjust to a new screen for a while before I'll really know. Is there a better way to handle this? Is it better to go through video card settings or something? I also have Photoshop CS, which comes with Adobe Gamma. I am not going to go through that process tonight but if it's a good idea I'll get on that soon.

Speaking of games, is it possible to make custom presets? In WoW, brightness looks nice. On the desktop, not so much, so I'd like to just adjust for both at a button press instead of having to use slidebars.

One more question... my monitor arrived before some of my parts so I'm running it on a soon to be rebuilt system using the D-sub port. Will a DVI connection change the way my monitor looks, thus rendering all this moot for a few more days?

Thanks!

I wouldn't scrutinize image quality until you get a proper DVI connection going.

NVIDIA has the ability to use a different ICM profile for certain games AFAIK but you generally don't want to do this anyway. It hardly works because the game overwrites the gamma profile, and when it does it usually looks crappy since the game has its own gamma curve for good reason. Compression artifacts in textures can stick out like a sore thumb with custom gamma.

You read the chart by reading the point at which the colors "blend". If it looks different all the way up then your red/green/blue probably aren't calibrated (normal). Or, because you're using VGA.

Some monitors have brightness presets you can press, but I don't think the DoubleSight does. It is theoretically possible by using DDC to communicate with the monitor and adjust brightness but I don't know if that's implemented in practice. Perhaps using PowerStrip.

It is a terrible idea to adjust with your video card because you are limiting the number of tones you are sending your monitor whenever you adjust it. When you adjust the monitor, you are merely adjusting the rendition of the 256 shades of gray that are transmitted. Light video card adjustment is necessary after hardware calibration because the monitor can't be perfect. (Unless using a professional monitor typically $1000+ with built-in calibration features.)

Personally I think that you will get used to the brightness. If you can't stick with a single brightness that probably indicates that you're using the wrong settings (unless you really want WoW brighter because you sit back farther when you game, or something like that).

 

[Squidmaster]

Ah, I will stop fretting till the DVI connection is active in a few days. Currently what I notice in the Lagom tests is that the white saturation has one image at the end that appears to be entirely white, and the one next to it is nearly so unless I look *really* hard. Overall, the image quality on this monitor seems great, but I'm noticing that my eyes are quite a bit dryer than they were on my old CRT. Is this normal?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Ah, I will stop fretting till the DVI connection is active in a few days. Currently what I notice in the Lagom tests is that the white saturation has one image at the end that appears to be entirely white, and the one next to it is nearly so unless I look *really* hard. Overall, the image quality on this monitor seems great, but I'm noticing that my eyes are quite a bit dryer than they were on my old CRT. Is this normal?

Maybe you have sensitive eyes or maybe the brightness is affecting them; either way, why don't you just see how it goes over the next week.

 

[Rangoon]

Is it safe to say that an IPS will have better dark levels than a TN? I'm thinking about the DS-263N. So more specifically, will an H-IPS like this, without the polarizer (assuming the next batch of these will not come with one), have darker, clearer blacks than a TN? I've really only spent LCD time with a Samsung 22" and was hoping the DS will fair better in this regard.

Thanks!

 

[imported_qwester]

I'm looking at the Benq G2400W for a mix of office work and multimedia (movie watching). No gaming. Price is attractive for a 24"er that has quite a bit of positive feedback.
Is there any particular reason why it's not included among the recommendations in the office work section, but is included for multimedia?! Any drawbacks the benq has for office work?
Thanx for the help.

 

[Sylar Powers]

Quesiton: The Viewsonic vp2650wb.

http://www.viewsonic.com/produ...ys/proseries/VP2650wb/

Yea or ney?

For 650 US Dollars (street price at MacMall.com), this new model seems like a steal. I have been reading and searching sites and forums, but there is little info to be had on the web as of yet. Viewsonic's email guys call this a Superclear MVA (S-MVA?) Panel, with a 4 dead pixel policy needed for return.

In general, I am looking for the best HDCP 1920 x 1200 pixels (optimum resolution) 23-26" Widescreen LCD Monitor money can buy for a Mac Pro Tower. However, this does not mean I want to spend twice as much for a micron of improvement. I don't mind saving up for months and spending good money, as long as I am seeing a decent bang for my buck (considering style, build, and performance). The primary uses include watching lots of movies, gaming, 3d animation, art, web browsing, and well, my whole digital life. The computer is all I use nowadays-I am done with separate TVs and stereos.

Normally, I would just buy Apples 23" Cinema Display, as I digged the S-IPS Panel on my old 20" white iMac, but Apple's current models don't have HDCP (which I can't go without), and they are very long in the tooth performance wise. I am heavily swayed by Apple's stylish look and aluminum build quality, however in this case, it's not quite enough.

NEC's LCD2690WUXi S-IPS Panel made my list, but I tend to discount this model as it seems overpriced, overly fat, and ugly. I could live with these issues, but then I read that the model also has QC issues, and is blurry with movies and games.

From there, I found the Viewsonic vp2650wb. I am picky about quality and performace, and I noticed that the bigger you go, the more you lose. Which, along with pricing, is why 30 inchers are out of the question. Perhaps I should step down to 20-22 inchers? Sacrifice some real estate, go quality over quantity?

I am also keen on the improvements of LED backlit LCDs as well, so the ViewSonic 22? VLED221 caught my attention. It's pricey, but LED backlit, which is nice. This model can be found here:

http://www.viewsonic.com/produ...isplays/led/VLED221wm/

So what does everyone think of these two models? Anyone have any other thoughts or suggestions?

BTW-Don't bother suggesting a Dell. I just don't trust their build quality and panel lotteries.

 

[ClockHound]

The VP2650wb viewing angle specs from their website say TN (160/160) as does the 3ms response time. In fact these specs are almost identical to their 28" TN model. You might want to email the Viewsonic's email guys again and ask why this model has the worst quoted viewing angle for a recent generation MVA panel. And the 110% sRGB gamut may not be what you want for many of your tasks. A $650 TN panel seems like a steal. For Viewsonic.

The closest spiritual successor to the 23" ACD is the NEC 2490wuxi, which is a standard gamut IPS panel. It suffers a bit from the NEC thickosity, but gets rave reviews for its image quality.

 

[10e]

Other than viewing angles, I can't think of anything that would keep this monitor as well recommended for office work.

Text is quite sharp over DVI and HDMI, and has fairly accurate colors. I know that for me the text is much better on the eyes than my BenQ FP241VW in regards to sharpness.

If a 24" monitor is needed for office work, it would be a good choice in my opinion.

In fact, other than S-IPS, I think TN monitors in general are pretty good for it.

In regards to movie watching I have posted a review over on HardForums which has some pictures of the G2400W displaying 1080p movies over BluRay on a PS3, and it is quite nice.

I think the only caveat to this monitor is that it cannot go excessively bright, but it also looks better than the more expensive BenQ FP241VW for movie watching (IMHO).

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: qwester
I'm looking at the Benq G2400W for a mix of office work and multimedia (movie watching). No gaming. Price is attractive for a 24"er that has quite a bit of positive feedback.
Is there any particular reason why it's not included among the recommendations in the office work section, but is included for multimedia?! Any drawbacks the benq has for office work?
Thanx for the help.

 

[Dashel]

Quick question: With Monitor revisions, if I buy a current model and it undergoes revision, am I just out of luck? Can the firmware on older revisions be upgraded somehow?

 

[10e]

It usually depends on the manufacturer.

BenQ offered a firmware upgrade on the FP241W to the 1:1 pixel mapping firmware last year, but when a second firmware upgrade was offered to enable overscan controls, they only performed this on the EMEA market.

You may want to contact the manufacturer in regards to firmware policies, as many have different approaches. Most just don't do it, but again, it's like dead pixel policies, and can vary wildly.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: Dashel
Quick question: With Monitor revisions, if I buy a current model and it undergoes revision, am I just out of luck? Can the firmware on older revisions be upgraded somehow?

 

[10e]

So I just purchased the LCD2690 based on your review XTKnight. So far I have only one minor gripe and that is the dead green subpixel I have on the left side, but I am really enjoying it. I can't wait to get it home from work and put it throught its paces!

I plan to pair it up with the G2400W for the ultimate dual-monitor configuration. Not that I expect the G2400W to measure up to this fabulous display, but it is a great gaming display.

So far everything in your review has borne out in my case. This is the first S-IPS panel I have that does not have slopped on anti-glare (as you mentioned), so it's quite smooth, but with no glare.

Top notch product.

Thanks for the great info

Regards,

10e

 

[Dashel]

Thank you sir, I'm considering the new Dell 2408. I'll have to see what they have to say on it.