[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Syrup]

WOW, pretty amazing thread. And to see your still helping out xtknight is even better.

Anyways, my existing monitor is on its way out and Im looking to buy within the next day or so. I will be using it exclusively for gaming/multimedia.

So with that being said,,, If you had the chance to get the HPw2207 or the Dell SP2208WFP for the same price would you have a preference?

- Ive had the chance to play with the HP in person and was satisfied with its performance.
- The Dell seems impressive on paper but I have no first hand experience.
- I realize both are glossy screens, it is my preference.
- I have the base from my existing Dell I could use on the SP2208 for vertical movement.
- Im leaning towards the HP atm
- I can drive home tomorrow with the HP, the Dell will take a few days

Thanks for any info/suggestions.

Syrup

 

[adamtron5000]

Am I going to notice a difference in text clarity between pixel pitches of 0.258 and 0.270 ?

I am looking for a monitor mostly for document editing (reading/writing essays, etc.). I'm on the fence between the G2400W and the HP L2045w.. where I am both are basically the same price, and I'd obviously rather get the G2400W for the extra real estate if I'm not going to notice significant differences in text clarity.

I have a VP930b and find the text in Word etc. is pretty awful to stare at for long periods of time. It has a pitch of 0.294, about as high as you can get, so I am assuming that both the G2400W and the L2045w will be a step up.

Thanks!

 

[colorblind]

Just found this on Newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824236033

Does anyone know of any reviews or what type of panel it is? Thanks.

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: mmnno

Originally posted by: muppet22
from what people have posted on hardforum, the planar is a little slower than the doublesight (1 frame compared to less than a frame). 1 frame is about 16ms - i'm not sure where you got 3.3ms.

it seems the g2400w does indeed have exceptional performance for a '24" TN 5ms panel', both on digitalversus and tests done by 10e. also, i have used both and can say for sure that the g2400w is faster.

and for the NEC 26", although it uses the same panel as the planar and ds, it is tested as having 2 frames of lag by hardforum people (like toastyx). xtknight can probably confirm this as well.


it seems that anywhere with a "new" supply of the product has the polarizer. i got my ds just before the cutoff where people started getting polarizers. i think you'd be safe to say you'll get a polarizer most places except newegg.

With regards to the NEC, I was talking about response time, not input lag, since your total lag is reactivity+input lag.

I didn't go looking for the planar thread, but this is toastyx's input lag test: http://hardforum.com/showpost....032194456&postcount=70 2/10 of a frame, or 3.3ms. I got the G2400W's input lag from digitalversus, of course.

Here's behardware's evaluation of the 245B's response time, same panel as the G2400W: http://www.behardware.com/arti...-tn-vs-24-pva-mva.html
Both monitors apparently lack RTC. Put that image side by side with the NEC's results and there is basically no difference. That's what I mean by unexceptional performance; with RTC, TN panels can do better for response time (though they tend to sacrifice IQ).

The lag of the BenQ is of course exceptionally low, but that's not what I was referring to.

oh hmm..yeah i dunno about the nec.
as for he 3.3ms lag on the planar and ds - from what i read on hardforum (i think in the planar thread), the planar has about a frame of input lag..and i thought the ds was just slightly below that.

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: xtknight
I find that very odd, muppet22. The DS-263N has only 16 ms of lag at most and quite a good response time. It might be something else that you're noticing (size?)

The NEC definitely has three (or four) frames of lag, at times. It's always slower than my NEC 20WMGX2 which is often in itself two frames. And the lag is noticeable.

You found the G2400W a lot better than the DS for gaming overall? That's surprising, to me.

hmm..i dunno what it is exactly. it just seems that its harder to see a fast-moving image (like when you jerk the mouse across the screen) on the ds than on the g2400w or 906bw.

although, i wasn't able to test them one after the other. i had to send back the ds before i got my g2400w.

i don't think 25.5" vs 24" made a difference in my perception. i wouldn't say the g2400w is *a lot* better than the ds. at such lower input lag and response times, the difference is small in terms of numbers. the small difference though is big when it comes to competitive fps gamers. and not a lot of gamers fit in that category.

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: muppet22

oh hmm..yeah i dunno about the nec.
as for he 3.3ms lag on the planar and ds - from what i read on hardforum (i think in the planar thread), the planar has about a frame of input lag..and i thought the ds was just slightly below that.

Toasty said the planar has less than one frame of lag, but the program he was testing with made it difficult to tell exactly what the delay was in the current frame. In the thread for the DS (8 months later), someone posted a different program that actually had markers you could measure the frame with. The pictures of the planar look basically identical to the doublesight, so both monitors probably have the same ~3.3ms lag.

 

[Sylar Powers]

Thanks to xtKnight for steering me and all us other lost souls in the right direction.

Had a long post here, but it seemed overkill. I will check out the DoubleSights.

 

[10e]

Is it possible your web browser is set to do "smart dithering" and it's affecting web page photos?

Just a thought. I haven't heard of anyone on the Hard Forum talking about their 2408WFPs having this issue. Maybe you have a defective model?

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: SZGY

Originally posted by: 10e
The Dell's panel is the same as the Samsung 245T which is most definitely an 8-bit panel, but the Dell is reputed to be very hard to calibrate and has a fairly dull sRGB preset.

Is it possible that the monitor has a marginal power supply? I've seen this cause "pulsing" in the screen that could appear similar to temporal dithering.

You may also try and move the DVI cable away from any potential RFI/EMI sources like speakers, wall plugs, power supplies, etc...

I know that another user on Hardforums reviewed it, and he didn't mention anything about this, and he would have.

Good luck,

10e

Nah, it's definitely not the power supply, or interference. I can clearly see the dither pattern, no doubt about it.

 

[SZGY]

Originally posted by: 10e
Is it possible your web browser is set to do "smart dithering" and it's affecting web page photos?

Just a thought. I haven't heard of anyone on the Hard Forum talking about their 2408WFPs having this issue. Maybe you have a defective model?

Regards,

10e

OK, here's the deal. I managed to capture the effect with my digital camera. It didn't turn out to be that good but the effect is clearly visible.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6690/frckp1.jpg

The image I photographed:
http://www.geocities.com/iceco...img/gray-gradients.tif

SZGY

edit: I also tried something weird. I looked thru a rotating fan and by varying the speed I could make the pattern stand still (it's called strobe effect).

 

[kalrith]

I have a few questions about LCDs. I'm currently looking at either the Doublesight DS-263N or a 32" 1080P TV like the Sharp LC32D64U. The monitor would pull double duty as a PC monitor (gaming and general use) and a TV, which would probably work out to 70% PC usage and 30% TV usage. I would plug in my DirecTV HR-21 HD-DVR, so a tuner is unnecessary.

Would an HDMI-to-DVI adapter like this allow me to connect my DVR to the Doublesight? I would take care of audio separately.

Also, does anyone have inputs, thoughts, or opinions about the decision between the 25.5" 16:10 monitor and the 32" 16:9 TV? The cons for the TV are the loss of the 120 vertical pixels and the inability to play 4:3 games at 1600x1200 resolution. The plusses for the TV are the larger screen of the 32" (49.2% larger) and the much larger 16:9 TV picture (66.5% larger). I will be roughly 2 feet away from the screen for computer usage.

Edit: Regardless of which one I get, I'll be using my 20.1" 4:3 monitor next to it as a second monitor. My #1 priority with the new monitor is PC gaming. I mainly play Quake 4, COD4, and Warcraft 3 right now. I plan to play CIV 4 and Titan Quest in the near future.

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: mmnno

Originally posted by: muppet22

oh hmm..yeah i dunno about the nec.
as for he 3.3ms lag on the planar and ds - from what i read on hardforum (i think in the planar thread), the planar has about a frame of input lag..and i thought the ds was just slightly below that.

Toasty said the planar has less than one frame of lag, but the program he was testing with made it difficult to tell exactly what the delay was in the current frame. In the thread for the DS (8 months later), someone posted a different program that actually had markers you could measure the frame with. The pictures of the planar look basically identical to the doublesight, so both monitors probably have the same ~3.3ms lag.

hmm..i see.

 

[YabbyU]

Ok...so the LG L227WTG is #1 gaming monitor.....How does the LG 2252TQ stack up against it. I did a side by side comparison from LG's site and only differences I could see were the 227 had some color gamut domination thing and 16.7 mil colors to 16.2 million in the 2252.

The 2252 is $80.00 less at bb right now....how does it stack up to the L227? I dig the zero input lag and 2ms response that both monitors have.

Thanks

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Cheex
I'm very interested in getting the Samsung 2493HM monitor.

Can anyone give me some in depth info on this model and also the panel used (I know its TN, but performance??) ???

Thanks in advance.

You can read thoughts about that on HardForum. Personally, I haven't seen it.

Here's a good thread to start with: http://www.hardforum.com/showt...98311&highlight=2493HM

Thank you xtknight.


I have another question...
The Samsung 2493HM specs list it as having a response time of 5ms (BTW)...
Does that equate to 2ms (GTG) ??

 

[RayvinAzn]

My Viewsonic VX922 bit the dust recently - some sort of power issue I believe, where the panel wouldn't display images and the power LED would blink on and off. Anyway, I've learned a lot about monitors since then, and I'm looking to go high-quality this time around. Viewsonic is sending me a replacement, but I'll probably sell it off or keep it around as a backup unit.

I've got my sights set on the golden child - the Doublesight DS-263N. I'm fine with the price (overjoyed really), but the one thing I am concerned about is gaming. My X1900XT(X) 256MB holds up just fine at 12x10 in every game I play (mostly Sins of a Solar Empire, GTR2, and the occasional bout with The Witcher and Oblivion, and as sort of an aside, my wife enjoys a good bit of Titan Quest), but I'm reasonably sure 19x12 is going to kill my poor card as far as gaming goes. I'll probably be upgrading this summer, but I don't really want to keep up with all the graphics upgrade bollocks that comes along with a 19x12 monitor.

So to anyone that owns (or has used) this monitor, how does it fare at a non-native resolution (say, 16x10)? Is the image noticeably blurred, or it is acceptable for games? I'm really excited to own my first truly great monitor, but I don't honestly feel the need to have to own every great graphics card from now until I quit gaming just to keep up with the resolution of that unit. $200-$300 every ~2 years is fine, but $300-$500 once per year is going to get old, fast.

 

[redlinez33]

1680x1050 looks fine, I even play some games at 1440x900 and it looks decent (crysis). I think you would only notice the blurriness on the desktop especially with text. So run the desktop at 1920x1200 and run everything else at the resolution your PC can handle

 

[redlinez33]

Cheex I had the 245BW, which from what I can tell is just the older brother of the 2493HM (using same panel I assume?!?)...

If this is the case, you wont have a problem with the response time of that monitor, its plenty fast.

 

[redlinez33]

The problem with the 32" TV idea is the dot pitch or whatever we call it now a days. If you sit close, will will see each individual pixel, so it depends on close you are sitting to the TV. If sitting 2-3feet away a computer monitor would probably be the best idea... I do not know about the DS working with a tuner box though...

 

[CrabJuice]

Thanks, xtknight. Spot on.

Originally posted by: redlinez33
CrabJuice how much you looking to spend though???

IPS tend to be very bright, so they are a little more HARSH on the eyes. My eyes love SPVA panels from dell, but the colorshifting annoyed me (though didnt effect eye strain). SPVA panels typically can get pretty low on brightness while keeping high contrast.

If $400 isnt to much, look at the BENQ G2400 TN panel.

Interesting that you think IPS is harsh. Was that a H-IPS you tried?

Yes. G2400W is on top of my list right now. Only problem is that it is a little too big and dotpitch smaller than 22" which is my prefered size-choice. There has also been popping up a few variants here like G2400V (no DVI), a black bezel G2400W and a V2400W (dynamic contrast). This model-fickling combined with popularity makes me a bit concerned that a panel-lottery might ensue.

Also for TN i have also been looking at LG L227WT (european non glossy). IF you can turn off dynamic contrast and RTC then I think it might fit my needs. 22" Eizo S2201WSE is also interesting, more office direction.

Edit: Should be G2400WA. Not G2400V.

 

[10e]

I don't think you will have to worry about BenQ having a panel lottery. I think they either own, or are partners with (can't remember) with AU Optronics, and they use their panels exclusively for all models as far as I know. Additionally, the LG is an LG panel only. I've read somewhere that the WTG suffix is an LG panel, and the others can be CMO, CPT, AUO, etc...

Regards,

10e

 

[CrabJuice]

Originally posted by: 10e
I don't think you will have to worry about BenQ having a panel lottery. I think they either own, or are partners with (can't remember) with AU Optronics, and they use their panels exclusively for all models as far as I know. Additionally, the LG is an LG panel only. I've read somewhere that the WTG suffix is an LG panel, and the others can be CMO, CPT, AUO, etc...

Good to know! Although that fact doesent stop them from switching to other AUO panels nor slacking off quality control. AFAIK it happens all the time with popular models of various consumer products. They get good rep, cant meet demand, outsource fabrication, lower QC and incidentally make lots of extra money. Its very seldom a product has price elevation because of popularity these days. Seems only way to trust producers is if they are reluctant to meet demand. Like Nintendo.

Btw. A list of panel-partners would be interesting. Is there one somewhere?

 

[RayvinAzn]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
1680x1050 looks fine, I even play some games at 1440x900 and it looks decent (crysis). I think you would only notice the blurriness on the desktop especially with text. So run the desktop at 1920x1200 and run everything else at the resolution your PC can handle

Great, thank you for the reassurance.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
The problem with the 32" TV idea is the dot pitch or whatever we call it now a days. If you sit close, will will see each individual pixel, so it depends on close you are sitting to the TV. If sitting 2-3feet away a computer monitor would probably be the best idea... I do not know about the DS working with a tuner box though...

I thought about the PPI (pixels per inch) issue with the larger screen. My current 20.1" monitor at 1600x1200 has 99.5 PPI (too small IMO). The DS would have 88.79 PPI, and the 32" TV would have 68.84 PPI. Obviously the lower the PPI the larger that pixels are. I am planning to sit 2-3 feet from the monitor, so maybe the DS would be better suited for that. I won't have to worry about a tuner box, because I'll be connecting my DirecTV DVR to my computer either through a TV tuner card or the VIVO on my video card.

Do all the new games support 1920x1080 resolution? Is there anything missing by using that res instead of 1920x1200?

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: redlinez33
Cheex I had the 245BW, which from what I can tell is just the older brother of the 2493HM (using same panel I assume?!?)...

If this is the case, you wont have a problem with the response time of that monitor, its plenty fast.

Thank you!!
I'm very interested in the 2493HM (Samsung fan). I really like Samsung products and as such I have always wanted a Samsung LCD to replace my Samsung CRT.

I was considering the 226BW some time ago but then I decided to just get the full 1920x1200 resolution. That put me in the 24"-28" range.

I had a great liking for the Gateway FHD2400 (I preferred it to the Samsung 245BW) but seeing as though the Samsung 2493HM has been released...

That just owns my thoughts....
I get all I want in one package...1920x1200, 1080p, HDMI, Pivot, and more...

I can't wait to get one.

 

[10e]

Hate to tell you this, but your screen looks defective.

Some on Hard Forum were complaining about this problem as well. I can't remember if the rainbow effect was on movement (ie. a rainbow trail on a moving object) or still, but they did say that some early ones had this issue.

I would definitely return it. BTW that Tiff bands on every single screen I have including the LCD2690, so there are visible steps in the gray scales, but I don't get the "rainbow effect" on any of my screens.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: SZGY

Originally posted by: 10e
Is it possible your web browser is set to do "smart dithering" and it's affecting web page photos?

Just a thought. I haven't heard of anyone on the Hard Forum talking about their 2408WFPs having this issue. Maybe you have a defective model?

Regards,

10e

OK, here's the deal. I managed to capture the effect with my digital camera. It didn't turn out to be that good but the effect is clearly visible.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/6690/frckp1.jpg

The image I photographed:
http://www.geocities.com/iceco...img/gray-gradients.tif

SZGY

edit: I also tried something weird. I looked thru a rotating fan and by varying the speed I could make the pattern stand still (it's called strobe effect).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Syrup
WOW, pretty amazing thread. And to see your still helping out xtknight is even better.

Anyways, my existing monitor is on its way out and Im looking to buy within the next day or so. I will be using it exclusively for gaming/multimedia.

So with that being said,,, If you had the chance to get the HPw2207 or the Dell SP2208WFP for the same price would you have a preference?

- Ive had the chance to play with the HP in person and was satisfied with its performance.
- The Dell seems impressive on paper but I have no first hand experience.
- I realize both are glossy screens, it is my preference.
- I have the base from my existing Dell I could use on the SP2208 for vertical movement.
- Im leaning towards the HP atm
- I can drive home tomorrow with the HP, the Dell will take a few days

Thanks for any info/suggestions.

Syrup

I see no reason to get the Dell. I always veer away from cheap Dells, but rather than elaborate on the reasons again I'll just have you search this thread if you really want to know. Don't waste any time and give the HP a shot. The L227WT or ASUS VW222u however may be better options if they are available.

Originally posted by: adamtron5000
Am I going to notice a difference in text clarity between pixel pitches of 0.258 and 0.270 ?

I'm not sure what you mean by clarity exactly, but the 0.258 would have slightly higher resolution. That also means smaller font sizes, and since most OSes don't account for this by default on their own, you may end up having less clear text than by simply having a big display. Most of the time, it's best to get a bigger dot pitch for text use because adjusting DPI causes other problems.

I am looking for a monitor mostly for document editing (reading/writing essays, etc.). I'm on the fence between the G2400W and the HP L2045w.. where I am both are basically the same price, and I'd obviously rather get the G2400W for the extra real estate if I'm not going to notice significant differences in text clarity.

Well the G2400W is 24" meaning it can fit two A4s, so that is quite a good deal for text editing. I am afraid the 20.1"'s text would be a little too small for you. I have a 20.1" and 26", and I prefer the 26" very much for editing text now. Text on the 20.1" simply looks too small.

I have a VP930b and find the text in Word etc. is pretty awful to stare at for long periods of time. It has a pitch of 0.294, about as high as you can get, so I am assuming that both the G2400W and the L2045w will be a step up.

Thanks!

I also have a VP930b and I found the 20WMGX2 more comfortable. I'm not sure why it is, but I thought it had something to do with the overbright MVA panel on the VP930b. The dot pitch though is quite big, and I think a 24" at 0.270 would still be a decent upgrade there. There's a point where getting smaller might reduce clarity because like I said earlier, DPI adjustment may not be feasible.