[Retired] The LCD Thread

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: xtknight
It is definitely not worth giving up a wide gamut H-IPS for any TN, IMO. That's the worst decision you could make.

have you used the ds-263n or planar? without a polarizer, the ds really does not look good in dark scenes..which really affects movies and games. i'd say the viewing angles of the ds and my g2400w are comparable..with the g2400w looking a little better in that respect.

i'm sorry but having a white glow looking straight at the screen just really ruins it.

now, whether or not the ds will ship with the polarizer when it comes back in stock is another question altogether..i'm sure it must look pretty good with the polarizer

 

[Sylar Powers]

Squidmaster, does the DoubleSight feel as cheap as it looks to me? Remember, I am spoiled by Apple Cinema Displays.

It's not that I don't dig the DoubleSight DS263N's panel, it's the cheap plastic looking thing that houses it. Especially that stand. It's like a hot girl in Kmart clothing. Still hot, possibly cheap, but I want a designer label girl with class.

I'm still thinking of getting two monitors. Something smaller, cheaper, and low lag for gaming and extra real estate monitor spanning, and an Apple 24" H-IPS HDCP Widescreen Cinema Display later (whenever they decide to update the line). Or perhaps if Hazro ever comes to the USA, and updates to HDCP, as they remind me of Apple Cinema Displays. But only if Hazro is up to Apple's H-IPS quality level. Or hell, I could even get a 30 incher if I have something else good for gaming.

You know, if this almighty LCD technology doesn't improve by 2010, I am going to hire those Geico Cavemen to hold up flash card images for my next monitor.

I wish that NEC still made those small low lag widescreen SIPS models. Perhaps the Benq G2400W? Gamers dig that on Hard Forum.

Just posting outloud, so need to respond xtknight, unless your really want to-take a post off. How much vacation time do you have built up here? Be bad, call out sick!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: xtknight
It is definitely not worth giving up a wide gamut H-IPS for any TN, IMO. That's the worst decision you could make.

have you used the ds-263n or planar? without a polarizer, the ds really does not look good in dark scenes..which really affects movies and games.

I have not used the DS-263N or PX2611W, H-IPS panels without polarizers. I have used S-IPS panels which do not have the white glow problem and an H-IPS panel with the polarizer.

i'd say the viewing angles of the ds and my g2400w are comparable..with the g2400w looking a little better in that respect.

This seems very improbable to me. The polarizer should not affect viewing angles unless you are talking about the black level at different angles. Still, the TN exhibits significant gamma shift (distortion of midtones) while the IPS simply gets a little brighter or darker.

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...8&mo2=304&p2=2943&ph=8

i'm sorry but having a white glow looking straight at the screen just really ruins it.

now, whether or not the ds will ship with the polarizer when it comes back in stock is another question altogether..i'm sure it must look pretty good with the polarizer

I haven't seen a straight-on photo of this phenomenon so that's really hard to judge. Maybe a TN would be better for dark scenes because they have a lower black level, but TNs are still rarely good at revealing details. This is besides the fact that they are inferior in every other single category, except speed. So unless you play a ton of really dark games, the DS-263N still seems like an easy choice (unless of course it is unfeasible financially).

Now, if you were going to compare it to an S-PVA like the 275T you might have a better argument. The 275T can stand up to the DS-263N in many categories, like viewing angle, and wide gamut. It also has a better black level, even against the DS with the polarizer. Unfortunately, it has a lot of input lag. For somebody who plays dark games then the 275T would be a better choice, assuming the input lag isn't a problem.

Just to be clear, I did not mean an H-IPS was better than a TN in every single category or for any purpose. But since Sylar Powers is doing graphic design I believe that would be a very poor decision for him which is why I made that statement as strongly as I did.

 

[Squidmaster]

The frame is probably the cheapest part of the monitor, but I don't really care all that much as long as it works, and mine does except for the eye-strain issue I'm trying to understand and fix (or return).

I thought of a better way to describe my visual issue... While I was using the DS on the VGA connection with the phase set wrong, I had more eye strain than now. Once that problem vanished, the problem got cut in half roughly, but is still the same in terms of how it feels.

I have another weird issue to report that I had forgotten about..

As soon as my system starts displaying a screen saver on this monitor's screen, Windows starts beeping at me every few seconds. It's very similar to the "new hardware detected" sound, but distinct from it. Once the monitor goes into power save mode, I get the "add new hardware" beep every 1-4 seconds. If I turn off the monitor at any point during any of that sequence the beeping stops. This issue is monitor-specific.

<edit> I just discovered that some of the monitor settings (contrast, green offset, at least this time) reset to defaults when it goes into standby mode. I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

[Sylar Powers]

Thanks Squidmaster for the info. For your issue, I have read that the MacBook Pro is now backlighted by LEDs, and is the best for reading text, and that effect is best with glossy screens. The panel can go lower in brightness, yet still remain more white, than the other kinds of backlights. Don't know the panel tech on these MacBook Pros though. I have read many times that TNs are good for text for those that have bad eyes, but I am not sure if that is true. In any case, keep an eye on emerging LED backlighting tech, but it will be some time before it is cheap enough.

xtknight is right about the H-IPS panels being better for art. I have owned S-IPS panels before, and they are the best tech for creative pros. That's why I am looking to buy two panels. One just for gaming, and a H-IPS panel for everything else. Since noone can make a perfect panel with nice build quality... we are all stuck with tradeoffs. I think it is fair to say that H-IPS has the most benefits of a single type of panel though. Us gamers are a picky bunch, which is why we are willing to give up some eye candy for low input lag and response times.

 

[Sylar Powers]

Hey, this just in from SIPS News. Well, TFT Monitor News really. I just noticed the W2600HP by LG. The burb about it goes like this:

LG have showcased their new 26"WS monitor at this years CeBIT fair in Germany. The W2600HP offers a 1920 x 1200 resolution, 5ms G2G response time, 5000:1 dynamic contrast ratio (1000:1 static), 400 cd/m2 brightness and 178/178 viewing angles. The screen is S-IPS based and also offers 115% wide colour gamut technology along with a DVI-D (HDCP supported) and VGA interface. Price and release date are not known yet.

Who better to make a LG panel into a monitor than LG?

 

[muppet22]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: muppet22

Originally posted by: xtknight
It is definitely not worth giving up a wide gamut H-IPS for any TN, IMO. That's the worst decision you could make.

have you used the ds-263n or planar? without a polarizer, the ds really does not look good in dark scenes..which really affects movies and games.

I have not used the DS-263N or PX2611W, H-IPS panels without polarizers. I have used S-IPS panels which do not have the white glow problem and an H-IPS panel with the polarizer.

i'd say the viewing angles of the ds and my g2400w are comparable..with the g2400w looking a little better in that respect.

This seems very improbable to me. The polarizer should not affect viewing angles unless you are talking about the black level at different angles. Still, the TN exhibits significant gamma shift (distortion of midtones) while the IPS simply gets a little brighter or darker.

http://www.digitalversus.com/d...8&mo2=304&p2=2943&ph=8

yes, i'm specifically talking about blacks and dark colors at off-center.

i'm sorry but having a white glow looking straight at the screen just really ruins it.

now, whether or not the ds will ship with the polarizer when it comes back in stock is another question altogether..i'm sure it must look pretty good with the polarizer

I haven't seen a straight-on photo of this phenomenon so that's really hard to judge. Maybe a TN would be better for dark scenes because they have a lower black level, but TNs are still rarely good at revealing details. This is besides the fact that they are inferior in every other single category, except speed. So unless you play a ton of really dark games, the DS-263N still seems like an easy choice (unless of course it is unfeasible financially).

it's primarily an issue while watching movies. when i'm playing games, i honestly don't give image quality and black levels much thought really..although some might.

especially if you're watching a movie with someone else, you'll need the wider viewing angles. sitting in front of the monitor (3 ft away), the glow was prominent in the lower left and right corners of the screen..extending at least 2 inches from each corner. it's a big problem for me since i watch a lot of movies/tv that have dark scenes.

Now, if you were going to compare it to an S-PVA like the 275T you might have a better argument. The 275T can stand up to the DS-263N in many categories, like viewing angle, and wide gamut. It also has a better black level, even against the DS with the polarizer. Unfortunately, it has a lot of input lag. For somebody who plays dark games then the 275T would be a better choice, assuming the input lag isn't a problem.

Just to be clear, I did not mean an H-IPS was better than a TN in every single category or for any purpose. But since Sylar Powers is doing graphic design I believe that would be a very poor decision for him which is why I made that statement as strongly as I did.

ok fair enough. i'm only being critical here of the ds for movies use and potentially gaming..

 

[Sylar Powers]

I was at Best Buy today, and ran across a Samsung. It may not be a display I am looking to buy, due to the panel tech, but I found the Samsung 245BW very nice in the areas of build quality and style. It has a nice adjustable stand, cool rounded square semi glossy black quality plastic look, solid feel. It's a nice benchmark of what I am looking for in cosmetic qualities.

 

[Demitre]

Has anyone gotten the NEC ASLCD24WMCX? I am wondering how it will compare to the BENQ G2400W since both are about the same price.

 

[Syrup]

Just checking in after purchsing 2 monitors with results.

My needs are 95% gaming and I was hoping to stay on the cheaper side. I was considering a 24" but the bump up in resolution was somethign to worry about. My hardware allows me to run most games at 1920 but for pretty much every newer game out there 1680 was the only option for decent framerates.

So I was off looking at 22inch widescreens. I am one of those sickos who likes glossy screens so I finally settled on two. The Dell SP2208WFP and the HPW2207. I bought both and have had roughly 3 days to compare. In the end I decided the HP was going back.

Whyd I keep the Dell:
- The HDMI input really is a big deal for me persoanlly.
- The colors and clarity on both units were pretty much even, no surprise there.
- Despite both being standard VESA mounts the HP didnt fit on my old height adjustable stand. Not sure why but the problem was literally less than 1/8 inch.
- Cost was equal but the Dell came with a DVI, the HP didnt.
- 3 year warranty vs 1 for the HP.

Pros of the dell:
- Pretty exceptional for gaming performance. Very little to no motion blur.
- Built in mic/webcam frees up your audio. I always hated dropping my nice Senheiser headphones for junky ones with a mic. Now I get the best of both worlds.
- HDMI and Xbox360 work flawlessly
- Very Vivid colors though admitedly they are not as accurate as Id like.
- Fit on my old Dell stand giving me height adjustment.
- Incredibly bright display.

Cons:
- It is a TN so viewing angles can be problematic. But I am a gamer and if im viewing it im sitting right up in front of it so no problem there.
- Incredibly bright to the point it could cause some people headaches and eye strain.
- Dell customer support

Calibration:
- I dont have the tools so this was all done by eye and reading up online.
- The only problem everyone seemed to complain about was the text. I cant stress this enough when i say it is an easy easy fix. Turn the sharpness to 50 from 75 and turn OFF "color management". It looks clear and crisp like youd expect.
- So my final adjustments are as follows:
* Leaving everything else at default
* Brightness to 55-60, contrasct to 60-65.
*Sharpness to 50 from 75
*Color Management OFF
*Color Presets to 'User Preset"
*All colors at 100

In the end I lose 1 blue bar and 1 red bar on the color scale. Text looks crips and clear. I'll keep looking online for "professional" calibrations and post here shoudl I find something.

So long story short, if gaming is your thing and your looking for a decent sized inexpensive monitor this is a pretty good choice. At least it seems so to my inexperienced butt.

Syrup

 

[CrabJuice]

Squidmaster:
That feature sounds like a VESA problem. Is it the same if you use VGA and DVI? As for your eye-issues I have only sympathy to offer at the moment: http://www.silentpcreview.com/.../viewtopic.php?t=45695

Originally posted by: Sylar Powers
Who better to make a LG panel into a monitor than LG?

Wooeeh. That sounds alot more logical than reality dictates.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Sylar Powers
Just posting outloud, so need to respond xtknight, unless your really want to-take a post off. How much vacation time do you have built up here? Be bad, call out sick!

Haha. I have no sick days, only "lazy" days.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Sylar Powers
Hey, this just in from SIPS News. Well, TFT Monitor News really. I just noticed the W2600HP by LG. The burb about it goes like this:

LG have showcased their new 26"WS monitor at this years CeBIT fair in Germany. The W2600HP offers a 1920 x 1200 resolution, 5ms G2G response time, 5000:1 dynamic contrast ratio (1000:1 static), 400 cd/m2 brightness and 178/178 viewing angles. The screen is S-IPS based and also offers 115% wide colour gamut technology along with a DVI-D (HDCP supported) and VGA interface. Price and release date are not known yet.

Who better to make a LG panel into a monitor than LG?

This panel in the US is known to have a TN panel, unfortunately.

Originally posted by: Demitre
Has anyone gotten the NEC ASLCD24WMCX? I am wondering how it will compare to the BENQ G2400W since both are about the same price.

Nope, although I have never have high hopes for TN panels. The G2400W seems to be a diamond in the rough.

 

[Sylar Powers]

CrabJuice, I saw some LGs in the store today, and yea, they are really weak looking plastic things.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
Nope, it's global, though I haven't tried movie playback just yet. I'm trying the half contrast now but I won't know if it helps until tomorrow, after my eyes have gotten a night of recovery time.

I'm just trying to brainstorm here, but is the screen supposed to have a slightly visible textured surface that almost shimmers but not quite? I'm new to the LCD thing. My last monitor was a P95f+ trinitron, so things are pretty different techology-wise.

Yes, you're speaking of the anti-glare coating. Some LCDs have it more than others.

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
The frame is probably the cheapest part of the monitor, but I don't really care all that much as long as it works, and mine does except for the eye-strain issue I'm trying to understand and fix (or return).

I thought of a better way to describe my visual issue... While I was using the DS on the VGA connection with the phase set wrong, I had more eye strain than now. Once that problem vanished, the problem got cut in half roughly, but is still the same in terms of how it feels.

I have another weird issue to report that I had forgotten about..

As soon as my system starts displaying a screen saver on this monitor's screen, Windows starts beeping at me every few seconds. It's very similar to the "new hardware detected" sound, but distinct from it. Once the monitor goes into power save mode, I get the "add new hardware" beep every 1-4 seconds. If I turn off the monitor at any point during any of that sequence the beeping stops. This issue is monitor-specific.

<edit> I just discovered that some of the monitor settings (contrast, green offset, at least this time) reset to defaults when it goes into standby mode. I'm not sure what to make of this.

The sounds may be the USB hub of the monitor disconnecting and connecting. I don't know why this is happening, and I don't really know what to make of the eyestrain problems you're experiencing. Sorry.

 

[Squidmaster]

I still don't understand how the USB hub would connect or not if it's not plugged in, or why it would only be an issue on screensavers or sleep mode. Would there be any merit in contacting Doublesight to see if they can walk me through things, or is my (eye strain) problem too vague to be solved?

I tried varying degrees of brightness with no improvement. The screen is just hard to look at. If it's bright, it's easy to think it might be brightness/contrast, but as soon as those are tuned down the problem persists. I wish I could describe it better than this, but within the first 5 minutes of use my eyes just feel blasted, particularly behind my top eyelids, which is how it felt when the phase was off on the VGA cable to a more extreme degree.

 

[wopan]

Hi, first time posting, been lurking for a few months now. xtknight, thanks very much for this thread! It's amazing how clear and concise the entire LCD subject is laid out.

Time for me to jump in with a question. I'm contemplating getting the new iMac 24", so I got into a chat with an Apple chat support person about the monitor capabilities. Stumped the first person with my question about whether it's an IPS, but I found what I needed to know right here! I also found out that the iMac can support a second monitor, up to 23". So, my question is this: It seems that all the good IPS monitors are 24" and higher. Is there a reliable IPS with true 8-bit color and a wide viewing angle, that'll take well to being calibrated (I've got a Spyder2 Pro), that's 23" or smaller?

I'm a graphic artist, and I work almost entirely in Photoshop for printed output, so color management is critical. I don't game; I don't watch movies. I really want a dual-monitor setup, with one monitor for palettes and reference and the other for my working files, so it's important that the two monitors match in color. (Currently I'm using a single Viewsonic P225fb CRT.)

Thanks very much!

-- Laura

(edited to clarify who I chatted with)

 

[DerelictDev]

Just wanted to give my thanks to everyone who helped create this thread. It gave me some serious insight and information and made my buying decision so much easier.

I ended up buying the 24": BenQ G2400W, 1920x1200 (16:10) due to its price/size/reviews and I have to say, I couldn't be happier. It's a great LCD screen for its price (I paid $380).

 

[Sylar Powers]

What do you guys think of Hazro. They are made of aluminum like Apple Cinema Displays, and use SIPS/HIPS panels only. I read on forums that they are headed to the US at some point, and are getting HDCP later this year. Here are some links:

http://www.hazro.co.uk/products/products.html

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz26w.htm

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hazro_hz24w.htm

http://www.hardforum.com/showt...297031&highlight=hazro

http://www.hardforum.com/showt...247829&highlight=hazro

Are they worthy Hattori Hazro Steel?

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1302206

 

[Dashel]

Originally posted by: Syrup

So long story short, if gaming is your thing and your looking for a decent sized inexpensive monitor this is a pretty good choice. At least it seems so to my inexperienced butt.

Syrup

Thanks for that write up Syrup. I'm sort of in the same boat as you but I'm still holding out ofr a 24" myself. I'm glad to read you liked the Dell though. I cant decide if I want to deal with the viewing angles of a TN or the input lag of the 2408. Decisions decisions!

 

[10e]

In my experience no HDMI switch has added any input lag on a monitor. If it does, it is extremely low and undetectable.

Not saying that it's 100% accurate, but I've used three and none has shown a problem in adding input lag.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: dmalice

Originally posted by: kalrith
You could get an HDMI switcher like this or a DVI switcher like this, connect both your XBOX and computer to the inputs, and then connect the DS-263N to the output.

Does this thing create any input lag? or does it keep response times respectable?

If it doesn't create a noticeable amount of input lag...you sir, have made my day

oh, and it seems as though the DS does in fact have a 15-pin D-sub input, which can be used for HD input (I think...correct me if I'm wrong). In which case, thanks xtknight and everyone else, I think I've finally decided on a monitor

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Just bought my Nec LCD2690WUXi from Amazon
Should be here Friday!
I hope it is a good one

 

[10e]

Looks like I have to "MRA" my LCD2690Wuxi-bk.

I just received my SVII-KIT and have had fun calibrating with it, but I've noticed a number of issues with the monitor that I can't live with:

1) Panel is loosely mounted at the top and can move 2 or 3 millimetres within the bezel while being cleaned
2) A number of stuck green and red subpixels have shown up in the top inch of the monitor, which I found while calibrating last night, with a black screen
3) One dead green subpixel, one "half dead" green subpixel

I have initiated an MRA request via E-mail with NEC support, so we'll see what happens.

Hopefully I can get it soon, because I am really digging this monitor, especially after calibrating with SVII.



10e

 

[10e]

Awesome,

Congrats on your purchase. I am still quite happy with mine over the past two months or so. For the price it's hard to beat.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: DerelictDev
Just wanted to give my thanks to everyone who helped create this thread. It gave me some serious insight and information and made my buying decision so much easier.

I ended up buying the 24": BenQ G2400W, 1920x1200 (16:10) due to its price/size/reviews and I have to say, I couldn't be happier. It's a great LCD screen for its price (I paid $380).

 

[Fingolfin269]

I just put together a new PC and think it's time to upgrade my monitor. I've got a Dell 1905FP (I think that's the model name) and do experience some ghosting issues. I think about as large as I would want to go is 22" but I do have some concerns.

First, right now I game at 1280x1024. I'm sure I can increase that resolution with my new PC if I get a larget monitor that is native at a higher resolution but I am concerned about how frequently I will need to upgrade if I move up to a panel that is say 1680x1050. Is there a major difference in system component requirements to pull this off a year or two down the road?