[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Dashel]

Originally posted by: 10e
Some people have indicated they don't like the highly saturated colors of the LCD2690, but I have to say it is phenomenal with PS3 and 360 over HDMI > DVI.

The colors are good even though the monitor is capable of really saturating things. Calibration out of box is good, and after using the SVII-KIT everything except the (already good) greys improved more.

In addition because calibration updates the monitor's internal Look up tables, the effect will pass over to the other connections and modes as long as you put the monitor into (P)rogrammable mode (which it defaults to after calibration).

That, coupled with the (detailed by XTKnight) ability to turn overdrive on or off, makes this a very customizable screen.

In addition you can set customized "expansion" options which allow you to re-scale different resolutions such as 1080p all the way down to 640x480, which is a godsend for consoles.

It also doesn't suffer from overscan issues like a number of multi-input monitors do (Samsung 2493HM).

I am happy pairing this monitor up with the G2400W right now. My FP241VW has been fairly disappointing in a number of ways (that I've exhaustively examined).

If the LCD2690 is too rich, the Doublesight makes a good, more economical alternative.

Regards,

10e

I'm glad to hear you are having a good experience with NEC 10e, and that you're mostly enjoying the LCD26. I'm strongly considering it myself. I think I would enjoy the saturated colors and I believe the ~33ms image delay would be perfectly acceptable for the gaming I do.

Right now I'm mostly trying to get a handle on what the extra $5-600.00 is buying me over say the Doublesight or even the 2408 assuming I could get the delay that Anand got on it.

 

[TNPI]

Nooby here with two questions. Could not find answers using search, so I appologize if questions have already been dealt with.

#1. I have Sony Vaio VGC-RA810-G purchased auguast 2004, windows xp media edition (2005), Radeon x600 xt video card, 17" sony lcd monitor at 1280 x 1024. I would like to upgrade to 22" to 24" widescreen. The spec sheet for my sony stated:

128MB Video Memory (128-bit DDR) TV-Out / VGA-Out / DVI-Out (DVI
output: 1280x1024x60Hz max.)

Would I be correct in assuming that I will have to upgrade my video card?

#2 I would like to purchase a 22" to 24" Widescreen for use in web design and photo editing. I want to spend in the range of $500-600 USD. I know this is not the best budget for my purpose but would like to optimize my purchase within my realistic budget.

 

[TempletonPeck]

Looking for a little advice, one last time (hopefully).

I purchased the LG L227WTG as per xtknight's recommendation.

I've had it 3 days now.

From what I can see.

Pros: good vibrant colours, very good for text and gaming and pretty good for movies/multimedia.

Cons: a little backlight bleed around edges in spots (I write this one off really because any 22" TN I go for is really going to have some to some degree), a few RTC errors (haloing) on certain video sequences and a dead pixel.

I'm just wondering, up to how long a time should I be worried about more dead pixels popping up? At some point are they a lot less likely to occur?

I have one now, but it's at the very top of the screen close to the corner, I'm thinking that if I got to nitpicking and exchanged it, I'd probably end up with more of them, or just one in the center of the screen area which is much worse.

So... I'm thinking I should just stick with this monitor, but I don't want anymore dead or stuck pixels, I'm at my limit.

So I'm wondering how long I should keep looking before I can ease up here, or if anyone thinks it's worth risking exchanging it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: 10e
In addition because calibration updates the monitor's internal Look up tables, the effect will pass over to the other connections and modes as long as you put the monitor into (P)rogrammable mode (which it defaults to after calibration).

I'm not sure exactly how it works but I believe you may need to calibrate at least DVI/VGA separately (that's because VGA interference can affect color). You might need to calibrate DVI-I 1 and DVI-I 2 separately as well through the PC before hooking up a console.

But calibration is great, amazing for watching through an HD tuner or any other source.

 

[imported_asterisk]

Just registered to say the following:

First, huge thanks for xtknight for putting all this together and continuing to reply to all these questions. I nearly went crazy just trying to research for my own needs, I can't imagine doing it for others. This was probably the single most frustrating tech research I've had to do.

Second I ordered an HP LP2065 from the HP Small Business store during their rebate (which apparently has been renewed) last week. It came today and it's an IPS panel. Manufactured March 08, Rev. GSM002. So it looks like HP returned to the LG panels. I haven't had a chance to calibrate it but it appears pretty good out of the box. Much better than the Dell 1908 I use at work.

 

[jeff21]

Thank you for your help alleviating my monitor buying woes. My mind agrees with your recommendation of the Doublesight 263n and I've been waiting for them to come back in stock. My heart, tho', continues to growl for a 30".

Since I'm getting this as a gift, am I a goon to pass up the more expensive 3007wfp-HC (currently back on sale at 1200 bucks at Dell), which I wouldn't spend on myself. And then i could buy a Benq 24" or the Doublesight down the road, with my own moolah, if desired?

The main issues I see with the 3007 is:

1. no scaler - good for less input lag, but bad for non-native resolution gaming. Would you happen to know just how bad the screen looks with the nvidia (8800gt) doing the scaling?

2. One DVI port. If I ever did want to hook a console game system up to the monitor, is there a problem with using a switcher?

Thank you again for your help and patience.

 

[rhettdb2005]

Just to quickly bring my question back up-- so would I be better served by not getting the Dell 2208 and maxing out my budget to get the BenQ 2400W? Its ~90$ price difference, but it sounds like it is a much better monitor for the buck. Would that be a good decision?

 

[KamiXkaze]

thanks for the info this will help me out a lot when I chose my new display.


KxK

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FatLeprechaun

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: FatLeprechaun
This might be a stupid question, but why isn't the Gateway XHD3000 (30 inch monitor) on this list ? In my preliminary research, the Gateway seems critically acclaimed, if only a bit more expensive than the Dell 3007WFP-HC. And unlike the Dell, it has low response time and input lag, making it suitable for gaming.

It's expensive and had some type of QC problem as far as I can remember. It's also an S-PVA panel, inferior to IPS no matter how expensive it is. The standard gamut is attractive to content producers, but not as much to typical consumers who like vibrant colors.

Do you think that these reasons are a deal breaker for the Gateway? Price is not really a consideration for me as long as I'm getting a really good monitor. I'm looking to build a dream gaming system, so 30 inch monitors are attractive for me because of the ability to go to 2550 x 1600 (since my hardware should be able to handle it for everything except Crysis).

If not the Gateway, are there any 30 inch monitors you would recommend for hardcore FPS gaming? I assume that the Dell 3007WFP-HC isn't a good idea because of its response time and input lag.

I'm also strongly considering the Doublesight DS-263N, mostly because of your recommendation. Do you think that it's pretty close to being an ideal gaming monitor if price doesn't matter that much to me?

I believe the VA panel is the primary deal-breaker for the Gateway.

The 3007WFP-HC doesn't have that much input lag.

The DoubleSight is a great, IPS gaming monitor. It might be even better than the Dell because you have the chance of getting the A-TW polarizer (internal feature of the monitor) which improves black levels.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Dashel
For the calibration, do you know if this is true?

I'm also really sold on hardware calibration. I did software calibration with my last monitor, and the hardware calibration has cleared up two things that I noticed:

1) Slight imperfections in a grayscale gradient. This is probably due to the fact that you lose some colours when you correct the videocard LUT. Not a problem here, at least that I can see, grayscale is perfect.

2) Games override it. A lot of games like to load their gamma via the video card, and thus override any calibration. Again, no problem with a hardware calibration, your corrections are applied after the game. So while the game might change the power, it doesn't change the corrections.

Yup these are very true.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rxblitzrx
I'm so happy to see my panel is STILL in the Top 10 after 18 months! Great recommendation and great work!

Glad you're happy with it.

 

[rimmi2002]

I am looking for a good S-IPS or PVA panel in the 22inch range. Any reccomendations?

 

[Solotak]

Originally posted by: jeff21

1. no scaler - good for less input lag, but bad for non-native resolution gaming. Would you happen to know just how bad the screen looks with the nvidia (8800gt) doing the scaling?

2. One DVI port. If I ever did want to hook a console game system up to the monitor, is there a problem with using a switcher?

Thank you again for your help and patience.

I'd also like to hear comments on these issues. I'll most likely get the HP LP3065 and want to know if it is capable of playing any consoles? And can it software scale down without looking like ass?

 

[xerces8]

As there are VA monitors with no input lag, like the lolair MB24W (MVA) and Hyundai W241D (S-PVA), the first post should not make a general claim that VA panels have "High input lag"

Lag is anyway a function of the driving electronics, not the panel itself.

 

[Deinonych]

Originally posted by: xerces8
As there are VA monitors with no input lag, like the lolair MB24W (MVA) and Hyundai W241D (S-PVA), the first post should not make a general claim that VA panels have "High input lag"

Lag is anyway a function of the driving electronics, not the panel itself.

I wouldn't go so far as to say the Hyundai display has NO input lag - it's just not as bad as most VA displays. The Iolair isn't available in the US, so it's not an option for everyone.

 

[Deinonych]

Originally posted by: rimmi2002
I am looking for a good S-IPS or PVA panel in the 22inch range. Any reccomendations?

Lenovo L220x (VA) is the only non-TN I know of in the 22" size.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: xerces8
As there are VA monitors with no input lag, like the lolair MB24W (MVA) and Hyundai W241D (S-PVA), the first post should not make a general claim that VA panels have "High input lag"

Lag is anyway a function of the driving electronics, not the panel itself.

Of course, that was written when every VA panel did have input lag. But there usually is a strong correlation so I will only make minor amends to the OP here. I foresee many very laggy VAs in our future. Just look at the 2408WFP's lag.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TNPI
Nooby here with two questions. Could not find answers using search, so I appologize if questions have already been dealt with.

#1. I have Sony Vaio VGC-RA810-G purchased auguast 2004, windows xp media edition (2005), Radeon x600 xt video card, 17" sony lcd monitor at 1280 x 1024. I would like to upgrade to 22" to 24" widescreen. The spec sheet for my sony stated:

128MB Video Memory (128-bit DDR) TV-Out / VGA-Out / DVI-Out (DVI
output: 1280x1024x60Hz max.)

Would I be correct in assuming that I will have to upgrade my video card?

I don't know about that. Looking at X600 specs: http://ati.amd.com/products/radeonx600/specs.html

You can always try it, and if it doesn't work, upgrade the card.

#2 I would like to purchase a 22" to 24" Widescreen for use in web design and photo editing. I want to spend in the range of $500-600 USD. I know this is not the best budget for my purpose but would like to optimize my purchase within my realistic budget.

The ViewSonic VX2435wm may be a good choice for you.

It does reveal dark tones more than other LCDs so be aware of that. Otherwise, its colors are great by default, and they match the sRGB website space. Just make sure you use it in standard OptiColor mode and not with any 'natural skin' adaptive colors features.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000P0PPKK

It's ~$619 AR here. I got a better deal at $560 on Newegg after rebate, but Newegg appears to not have it at the moment.

If not that, I suppose you could try the BenQ G2400W LCD.

 

[Epix]

Got this from DoubleSight today:

Rick,
The DS-263N has been constrained the last few weeks. We are shipping stock this week. I believe New Egg will be among the first to receive inventory and they will accept a back order for you. The filter is a current feature. Thank you, DoubleSight

 

[Dashel]

Filter = polarizer?

 

[Epix]

Originally posted by: Dashel
Filter = polarizer?

Yeah.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269
I just put together a new PC and think it's time to upgrade my monitor. I've got a Dell 1905FP (I think that's the model name) and do experience some ghosting issues. I think about as large as I would want to go is 22" but I do have some concerns.

First, right now I game at 1280x1024. I'm sure I can increase that resolution with my new PC if I get a larget monitor that is native at a higher resolution but I am concerned about how frequently I will need to upgrade if I move up to a panel that is say 1680x1050. Is there a major difference in system component requirements to pull this off a year or two down the road?

Usually between 1680x1050 and 1280x1024 there's not that much difference. You really need to look at benchmarks for this as I certainly can not give a definitive answer on video cards anymore.

But I can help you with the monitor choice. I'm pretty sure you want to be looking at the LG L227WTG if you want glossy/wide gamut, or ASUS VW222u if you'd rather have matte/standard gamut. If you want glossy/standard gamut or matte/wide gamut you'll be venturing into uncertain territory.

I completely missed this. Thanks for the response. I'll report back once I figure out what I'm going to buy.

 

[TempletonPeck]

How long after you start using a monitor does the likelihood of more dead/stuck pixels no longer become a concern?

I've only had the monitor 4 days now and the time period I can exchange/return is 14 days.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Sylar Powers
What about those new big curved NEC/Alienware DLP projection monitors coming? They look sweet for games and movies. DLP was always a tech I wamted (big screen sizes, relatively thin, no burn-in from gamers, nice image quality, cheaper). Are there any other DLP PC monitors?

Just google NEC or Alienware curved monitor.

Not that I know of. I don't have any idea when these are coming to the market.

Originally posted by: Dashel
Ok so forgive me if this has been discussed or is obvious, but is it possible there is some sort of lottery going on with the Dell 2408?

Anand is reporting roughly 33ms lag, nearly identical to the 2407WFP-HC which they say is very similar to the 2408. Yet other sites are reporting much much worse times 69+ms and such.

I did notice this. Also BeHardware reports much worse default colors results than Anand. I'm not sure what to make of this. I'm reasonably sure both are at least VA panels.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: TempletonPeck
Looking for a little advice, one last time (hopefully).

I purchased the LG L227WTG as per xtknight's recommendation.

I've had it 3 days now.

From what I can see.

Pros: good vibrant colours, very good for text and gaming and pretty good for movies/multimedia.

Cons: a little backlight bleed around edges in spots (I write this one off really because any 22" TN I go for is really going to have some to some degree), a few RTC errors (haloing) on certain video sequences and a dead pixel.

I'm just wondering, up to how long a time should I be worried about more dead pixels popping up? At some point are they a lot less likely to occur?

I have one now, but it's at the very top of the screen close to the corner, I'm thinking that if I got to nitpicking and exchanged it, I'd probably end up with more of them, or just one in the center of the screen area which is much worse.

So... I'm thinking I should just stick with this monitor, but I don't want anymore dead or stuck pixels, I'm at my limit.

So I'm wondering how long I should keep looking before I can ease up here, or if anyone thinks it's worth risking exchanging it.

I don't really know, this varies way too much to make a generalization about it. But, my LCDs have had either 0 or x dead pixels to begin with, and they didn't develop more for at least a year and a half (if ever).