[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: marliz
I don't know where to post this. This is an awesome but overwhelming thread. A search brings up older posts and I would like more current information. Maybe someone can help. Hopefully I'm not out of line posting here.

I was using an NEC 20WMGX2 with a 913T Samsung for palletes. Because of back problems I've rigged up a place where I can stand for awhile and then go back and sit for awhile. This meant I had to split the monitors up. I mirror them for most purposes, but since that sacrifices a lot of space on the widescreen NEC (to match the older Samsung) I switch from mirrored to using together as a set for photo editing. The physical distance means I am limited to the 20" NEC for photo editing and ignore the Samsung.

I only used part of the Samsung and hope to find a good 26 to 30 inch monitor for editing. I've searched but not found any site as comprehensive as this one.

Questions: Without straying too far from a $1,000 price, could you recommend some monitors for me to research further? I am using a Mac Pro. When I bought the NEC, the Apple Cinema didn't get the greatest reviews.

Is it hard/impossible to find a good 30 inch monitor that will not be soon replaced by new technology? Is there new technology around the corner that I should wait a few months for? I think my card was set up for a 30 inch Apple Cinema when I bought it six months ago (the Nvida that came with the Mac Pro), but I will need to be sure before I make a final decision.

Would be very thankful for any advice.
Peggy

The 24" NEC LCD2490WUXi is probably a very good choice for you, although it's about $1140, at least at Newegg. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824002168

This would be the safest option, but the DoubleSight DS-263N is another possibility. I don't think you will have problems hooking up either to your Mac, but keep in mind the DS-263N uses a wide gamut backlight. That means you're going to have to learn how to use color profiles with Photoshop so that you get the proper results. The 20WMGX2's sRGB backlight did not need the color profile nearly as much, but it is pretty much vital for the DS-263N. If you want to save a few hundred dollars (the DS-263N is ~$700) then that's the best option.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...6824185007&Tpk=ds-263n

At this point I think 30" is excessive for most people. It's also very pricey at $1200 or more. But if you edit high-resolution photos a lot, then it could be a good idea. The 3007WFP-HC is the best choice for that, but you will still have the wide gamut problem.

http://accessories.us.dell.com...S&cid=27722&lid=628335

The 3007WFP-HC is just a tad more expensive than the NEC 24", but the NEC 24" will deliver the best performance for your purposes (assuming you use sRGB as you have been with the 20WMGX2). If it's between the DS-263N and 3007WFP-HC, then the 3007WFP-HC certainly looks more compelling if you're willing to pay the price and can confirm your card supports dual-link DVI required to do 2560x1600 resolution on a single DVI port.

I don't know of any other new tech around the corner.

 

[billingsgate]

I posted this on another thread, so I apologize for the double-posting. It just seems more appropriate here.

I need a monitor for professional animation work, with above-average color accuracy and minimal input lag time (drawing on a tablet connected to a computer can be excruciating when there is lag). No gaming, no TV or movie watching. Just animation and cartooning. I've spent the last week studying this and other forums and I'm still as confused as ever. I'm okay with getting a TN panel, since I need the fast response time. So I need the best color I can get from a TN. Budget is US$800-1000 range.

I can't find reviews anywhere of Eizo LCD monitors. Eizo has a great reputation, but that's all I seem to be able to go on. A salesman gave me a really good pitch for the Eizo FlexScan S2401W. It's a Samsung TN panel (he claims), but somehow being an Eizo it's supposedly much better color quality than any Samsung in the price range. It seems to be a good candidate for my specific needs. But I can't be sure, since I can't test it in the shop for any of those things (this is Hong Kong; they don't even let you try on clothes before you buy them in many clothing shops!), plus the shops here are all little cubby holes in computer centers, with minimum choice in each shop, so it's impossible to do any side-by-side comparisons between Eizo, Samsung, NEC, etc., since they're never together in the same place.

The only other monitor I'm looking at seriously is the 24" NEC LCD2490WUXi. But the Eizo S2401W actually costs less, and with Eizo's reputation, I'm sorely tempted. I just wish I could find a single review or user experience reported anywhere.

Any thoughts on Eizo's (relatively) budget line of FlexScans?

 

[jinsung0629]

Originally posted by: xtknight
...
I don't know of any other new tech around the corner.

I would think that some LCD monitor companies are working on implementing LED backlights whether it be white LEDs or RGB LEDs. I saw a Luminus PhlatLight demonstration at SID that ended last week and they are able to incorporate RGB LEDs into current LCD TVs simply by using just 8 light slabs, with each light slab using just one RGB LED package, into a 46" LCD TV. The RGB LEDs also improve the color gamut to way north of 100% NTSC. Of course LCD TVs and LCD monitors are different, but from what I saw it wouldn't be difficult at all to incorporate the light slab approach into large LCD monitors.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jinsung0629

Originally posted by: xtknight
...
I don't know of any other new tech around the corner.

I would think that some LCD monitor companies are working on implementing LED backlights whether it be white LEDs or RGB LEDs. I saw a Luminus PhlatLight demonstration at SID that ended last week and they are able to incorporate RGB LEDs into current LCD TVs simply by using just 8 light slabs, with each light slab using just one RGB LED package, into a 46" LCD TV. The RGB LEDs also improve the color gamut to way north of 100% NTSC. Of course LCD TVs and LCD monitors are different, but from what I saw it wouldn't be difficult at all to incorporate the light slab approach into large LCD monitors.

I haven't seen too much evidence of LED backlights being in affordable LCD monitors in the next year or so. Right now the only choices are Samsung XL20 at $2000, NEC Reference at $3000, etc. It would certainly be nice though. They are implemented in small devices like the MacBook Air although that's no cheapy.

My guess is that the first LED backlights will show up in some smaller TN panels as the wide gamut CCFLs first did.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: billingsgate
I posted this on another thread, so I apologize for the double-posting. It just seems more appropriate here.

I need a monitor for professional animation work, with above-average color accuracy and minimal input lag time (drawing on a tablet connected to a computer can be excruciating when there is lag). No gaming, no TV or movie watching. Just animation and cartooning. I've spent the last week studying this and other forums and I'm still as confused as ever. I'm okay with getting a TN panel, since I need the fast response time. So I need the best color I can get from a TN. Budget is US$800-1000 range.

Spending this much on a TN is generally bad. The response time that a TN that big would give you is about the same as an IPS that size (24"+). At least in most cases. Although, that is excluding input lag.

I can't find reviews anywhere of Eizo LCD monitors. Eizo has a great reputation, but that's all I seem to be able to go on. A salesman gave me a really good pitch for the Eizo FlexScan S2401W. It's a Samsung TN panel (he claims), but somehow being an Eizo it's supposedly much better color quality than any Samsung in the price range. It seems to be a good candidate for my specific needs. But I can't be sure, since I can't test it in the shop for any of those things (this is Hong Kong; they don't even let you try on clothes before you buy them in many clothing shops!), plus the shops here are all little cubby holes in computer centers, with minimum choice in each shop, so it's impossible to do any side-by-side comparisons between Eizo, Samsung, NEC, etc., since they're never together in the same place.

I doubt the TN Eizo would be any better than the Samsung. True, it's tuned a little better but then you still have the normal TN problems (shifting, etc.) Colors will be accurate, but only at one angle. Move your head and they're off again.

The only other monitor I'm looking at seriously is the 24" NEC LCD2490WUXi. But the Eizo S2401W actually costs less, and with Eizo's reputation, I'm sorely tempted. I just wish I could find a single review or user experience reported anywhere.

Any thoughts on Eizo's (relatively) budget line of FlexScans?

I think the NEC LCD2490 is a much better idea overall. I highly doubt 32 ms of input lag or even 48 will impact a pen. I can draw without any noticeable lag in GIMP on the LCD2690 and the pen isn't going to make the monitor itself any laggier.

I also rarely see reviews on Eizo's monitors, except on prad.de but these are usually not the TNs. The LCD2490 will provide you with a stable image and excellent colors, better than anything you'll see on the Eizo S2401W by a good margin. I have little doubt that it will be fast enough for your purposes.

Compared to a CRT it probably will seem a little slower, mainly because it's running at 60 Hz and indeed there is some response time/input lag. This is something you will probably get used to.

 

[Pugnate]

Hi guys, (read xtknight )

Need some help. I have a Viewsonic VX2235wm, which I like, but am looking for a change. My needs are primarily for gaming, and here are my limited options: (thanks to my geographical location)

W2207H
Samsung 225UW
Samsung 2232BW
Samsung 226BW

So what should I go for? I am leaning towards the 2232BW, but I am fearful because of the panel lottery.

The W2207H sounds neato, but I understand it has some glare issues, and I have eye strain problems. How does it perform for gamers?

Anyway:

http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html

Apparently there is a massive difference in color rendering between the two Samsung 2232 panels. That sucks.

 

[CrabJuice]

People who are looking for budget widescreen MVA panels might take a look at Philips 200WP7ES. It seems popular around my region and Oleg over at Xbitlabs wasnt afraid to recommend it even though he only did review the 4:3 variant.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...lcd-guide-f2007_4.html

About LED . Acer released 19 and 22" alegedly LED panels.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ne...rchive/11.htm#acer_led
Price is not that steep. The 'alegedly' comes from some whisper I heard about 'hybrid' technology.

 

[10e]

Hey XTKnight,

In this regard you are partly right. LG has two versions of the W2600: One H-IPS presumably using their 26" panel sold to NEC, and one TN. The TN version is available at a big box retailer (Future Shop) in Canada. The IPS version may be available in the U.S. at some point. Hopefully interested parties can communicate with LG to bring it to N.A.

The W3000H-PF is wide gamut H-IPS which I've also seen at the same retailer and it is definitely an IPS panel. It runs for about $100.00 more than the 305T up here in Canada.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: faxon
yea i really want a 30 inch display. im planning on using it as a TV replacment as well as my main screen for my monitor, so i think im gonna go with the gateway XHD3000 on account of the load it will take off my GPU doing image processing and what not, on top of the appearance of the bezel and the better stand than the samsung. will have to wait a bit longer but i will live. i have my 18th birthday in 2 weeks, and 3 everquest 2 characters to sell, so i expect to see some good cash flow into my bank account soon.

Although I thought LG's new monitor would be TN in the US, you might try 10e's suggestion and wait for it.

 

[marliz]

Thank you for the response, xtknight.

Actually I do use color profiling in Photoshop. I have vacilated between Adobe rgb and the pro rgb (for scanned or raw photos). I don't really understand a lot of technical talk and what the problem with the wide gamut monitors are about, but I have noticed in searching that there does seem to be a problem; technology too new maybe?

Why would you suggest the 24" NEC over the NEC LCD2690WUXi?
If I went the 26, would my optix pro work or would I need to order the calibration package with it?

I am willing to spend $1200 if necessary, hoping that it will be useful for a few years. But if the 30" is so new that there might be problems cropping up, I would rather go the 26" Also if I'm wrong about the capacity of my video card it would mean a replacement there also.

Can you explain in layman's terms exactly what the wide gamut problem is? I think a 26" monitor would be sufficient, but a 24" might really cramp me in photoshop, after using the two monitors; considering that I used about six inches of the second monitor for palletes.

I will still use my 20" NEC at my stand up spot. Do you know if mirrowing that to a 26 will create a problem?

Thanking you (and anyone else who offers advice),
Peggy

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Can you explain in layman's terms exactly what the wide gamut problem is?

I'll give it a shot:

Wide gamut draws more colors in a gradient than standard.
So when you want to reach a certain color -- beige
An application that is not color aware will assume you are using a standard monitor so it will tell it to draw x y z coordinates.

Wide gamut can do beige but doesn't need to travel so much to do it. Because of a lack of communication, the wide gamut will do as it is told anyway. When wide gamut gets to x y z, it will actually have a stronger color than beige (orange?).

Wide gamut draws more steps in a gradient than standard.

If what I typed is unintelligeble, it is probably the fault of the hot chick sitting in front of me

 

[10e]

The wide gamut problem is mostly due to non-color managed applications not understanding or working with wide gamut. Not sure about the technical background per se, but Photoshop does not suffer this issue as it is a purely color managed application.

I have heard a number of issues with the 3090WQXI mostly attributed to the less consistent backlight and not so uniform color. 30" is a big panel to try and get perfect. I would consider this a better proposition down the line, as LG does revise these panels periodically with better manufacturing. If your video card has a dual-link interface it can support the 3090WQXI without issue

I would recommend at least getting the SVII software kit to internally calibrate the color lookup tables on the NEC. I believe your colorimeter is supported by the software which means that you don't HAVE to get the full spectraview software/hardware combo. This will save you a bit of money. I highly recommend calibrating the LCD2x90WuXi internally using SpectraView/SVII, as the SVII software is the only software that will do this (I believe). Otherwise you are only calibrating your video card, where wide gamut becomes the issue.

Other than screen size and price, the only difference between the 26" and 24" WUXI models is the gamut. If you are using Adobe gamma images and RAW in the adobe color space it's better to have the wide gamut version. If you stick to sRGB it's better to get the 24".

You can run an extended desktop with the larger monitors and your 20" just fine. If you run them in clone mode you will either pan on the 20" due to it's lower resolution, or have to run at 1680x1050 on the 24" or 26" to get a perfectly cloned display, so it's better to stick to extended/multimon/dualview mode.

Regards,

10e

Originally posted by: marliz
Thank you for the response, xtknight.

Actually I do use color profiling in Photoshop. I have vacilated between Adobe rgb and the pro rgb (for scanned or raw photos). I don't really understand a lot of technical talk and what the problem with the wide gamut monitors are about, but I have noticed in searching that there does seem to be a problem; technology too new maybe?

Why would you suggest the 24" NEC over the NEC LCD2690WUXi?
If I went the 26, would my optix pro work or would I need to order the calibration package with it?

I am willing to spend $1200 if necessary, hoping that it will be useful for a few years. But if the 30" is so new that there might be problems cropping up, I would rather go the 26" Also if I'm wrong about the capacity of my video card it would mean a replacement there also.

Can you explain in layman's terms exactly what the wide gamut problem is? I think a 26" monitor would be sufficient, but a 24" might really cramp me in photoshop, after using the two monitors; considering that I used about six inches of the second monitor for palletes.

I will still use my 20" NEC at my stand up spot. Do you know if mirrowing that to a 26 will create a problem?

Thanking you (and anyone else who offers advice),
Peggy

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Pugnate
Hi guys, (read xtknight )

Need some help. I have a Viewsonic VX2235wm, which I like, but am looking for a change. My needs are primarily for gaming, and here are my limited options: (thanks to my geographical location)

W2207H
Samsung 225UW
Samsung 2232BW
Samsung 226BW

So what should I go for? I am leaning towards the 2232BW, but I am fearful because of the panel lottery.

The W2207H sounds neato, but I understand it has some glare issues, and I have eye strain problems. How does it perform for gamers?

Anyway:

http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html

Apparently there is a massive difference in color rendering between the two Samsung 2232 panels. That sucks.

Why were you looking to change your VX2235wm, specifically? I don't think you'll get many improvements by going with another 22" TN.

But the 226BW/2232BW are trouble.

The w2207h is the best alternative. It is glossy, which your VX is not. It might actually help eye strain, but there's no way to know for sure. I don't think it uses aggressive overdrive if it uses any, but it's still a good gaming LCD.

Are the LG L227WTG or ASUS VW222U options for you?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: CrabJuice
People who are looking for budget widescreen MVA panels might take a look at Philips 200WP7ES. It seems popular around my region and Oleg over at Xbitlabs wasnt afraid to recommend it even though he only did review the 4:3 variant.
http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...lcd-guide-f2007_4.html

Yup. Sadly this is not available in the US.

About LED . Acer released 19 and 22" alegedly LED panels.
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ne...rchive/11.htm#acer_led
Price is not that steep. The 'alegedly' comes from some whisper I heard about 'hybrid' technology.

Things introduced at CeBIT typically take awhile to actually get to market. The Samsung 22" PVA was also announced a while back (at least three months ago) but it is nowhere to be seen.

Originally posted by: marliz
Thank you for the response, xtknight.

Actually I do use color profiling in Photoshop. I have vacilated between Adobe rgb and the pro rgb (for scanned or raw photos). I don't really understand a lot of technical talk and what the problem with the wide gamut monitors are about, but I have noticed in searching that there does seem to be a problem; technology too new maybe?

It's an innate problem with the technology, not something that can be solved with newer revisions of it.

The wide gamut backlights more closely match Adobe RGB, which is bad if you do mostly sRGB work. The gamut (range of colors) is increased by changing the phosphors in the backlight, but when you do that you no longer match the conventional sRGB. Since it expects an Adobe RGB source and Adobe RGB 98 is a larger space, sRGB photos will look overvibrant on a monitor that comes near Adobe RGB. It's like expecting a photo lit by yellow light to match one lit by blue light; it's not going to happen.

Solutions for this include color profiles which Photoshop can use. Photoshop will use one of the four colorimetric methods (relative, absolute, perceptual, saturation) to show it on the Adobe RGB monitor, depending on your options. These methods of emulating sRGB on an Adobe RGB monitor are not perfect; each one has sacrifices, and a true sRGB monitor is still better for editing sRGB photos.

Why would you suggest the 24" NEC over the NEC LCD2690WUXi?
If I went the 26, would my optix pro work or would I need to order the calibration package with it?

The 26" is wide gamut, while the 24" matches sRGB. But this is all assuming the majority of your work is sRGB. If it isn't then by all means wide gamut monitors might be the best option. Or, if you do a good deal of scanning work then you should consider WG monitors as well, and use a profile when you edit sRGB pictures.

Calibration is generally not worth it for the NECs; they're good by default. I believe the overall calibration package cost about $250.

Please note that calibration does not change the gamut of a monitor. There is absolutely no way to do this. Calibrating to sRGB does not change the gamut of the wide gamut monitor to sRGB. You are only getting an sRGB gamma curve (tone response curve); in short, your colors are still way too vibrant until you use a profile. NEC monitors are calibrated decently well to 2.2 by default, very close to sRGB on the gamma level.

The sRGB option on the LCD2690 in the OSD is simply a rough emulation but it is not to be used for photo editing. It is not nearly accurate enough and not calibratable.

I am willing to spend $1200 if necessary, hoping that it will be useful for a few years. But if the 30" is so new that there might be problems cropping up, I would rather go the 26" Also if I'm wrong about the capacity of my video card it would mean a replacement there also.

You don't really have to worry about the 30" being too new, however it does lack many of the controls of smaller panels because the electronics to adjust a 30" screen are expensive. That means that if you decide to get a calibrator, you will have slightly less flexibility. But it should not really be a problem. You should still be able to get a good enough calibration out of it, for photo purposes.

Can you explain in layman's terms exactly what the wide gamut problem is? I think a 26" monitor would be sufficient, but a 24" might really cramp me in photoshop, after using the two monitors; considering that I used about six inches of the second monitor for palletes.

The 24" and 26" are the same resolution but different sizes, so one will simply appear "bigger" overall than the other.

I will still use my 20" NEC at my stand up spot. Do you know if mirrowing that to a 26 will create a problem?

Thanking you (and anyone else who offers advice),
Peggy

I use the LCD2690WUXi and 20WMGX2 together. But, obviously there can not be a perfect mirror because they are different resolutions. I am not sure how the Mac deals with this, although in Linux I have it setup such that my vertical resolution is "panned" on the NEC (the screen scrolls when I move it to an out-of-bounds area). There is also the possibility of having the 20WMGX2 show a downscaled 1920x1200 image where you see everything but it's shrunk to the 20WMGX2's size. I haven't seen an option for doing that in any OS I've seen (I think I happened across a bug in Windows drivers that caused this to happen, but not much else). Although it's at least a hypothetical option.

The LCD2490WUXi is my primary recommendation for you unless you think the smaller size will cause eye strain. In that case, you can try the LCD2690WUXi with a profile. You do some scanning work so it may benefit you, but only if your workflow is also Adobe RGB or ProPhoto RGB (which exceeds the NEC's gamut by a good amount).

An application can not determine whether your monitor is wide gamut or not (at least there is no defined, standard API to do this yet). They are not psychic. So there is no such thing as an "automatically color managed app" vs a "non-color managed" one really. You have to give the color managed app an ICM profile and configure it properly, otherwise you will get invalid results or it will just be not color managed like usual. Some color managed apps can read from the global ICM profile property in Windows for your device, but don't rely on this. Always confirm that they are using the profile. It's so important that you pay attention and learn how to use color management, rather than just plant the ICM profile and run for your life. Your users won't be too happy if you choose the latter option! What's worse is that you see more vibrant colors, and they will see very dull ones because the same picture looks more vibrant on your Adobe RGB-matching monitor.

Wide gamut is a problem regardless of if you calibrate the monitor or the video card, because neither can calibrate the "gamut" of the monitor. They only calibrate the response curve. That means sRGB pictures will still appear "off" by a good amount on an Adobe RGB display calibrated to an sRGB curve.

P.S. You don't need a calibrator to obtain a gamut-transforming ICM profile (one that will let you show sRGB on an Adobe RGB monitor with emulation). You can get that ICM profile off the CD or drivers for the monitor and it should very closely match your unit in terms of gamut. However note this ICM profile does not contain the tone response curve calibration, which is not as critical for the professional NEC monitors that are decently calibrated at the factory, to begin with.

 

[Pugnate]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Pugnate
Hi guys, (read xtknight )

Need some help. I have a Viewsonic VX2235wm, which I like, but am looking for a change. My needs are primarily for gaming, and here are my limited options: (thanks to my geographical location)

W2207H
Samsung 225UW
Samsung 2232BW
Samsung 226BW

So what should I go for? I am leaning towards the 2232BW, but I am fearful because of the panel lottery.

The W2207H sounds neato, but I understand it has some glare issues, and I have eye strain problems. How does it perform for gamers?

Anyway:

http://www.behardware.com/arti...tors-the-3rd-wave.html

Apparently there is a massive difference in color rendering between the two Samsung 2232 panels. That sucks.

Why were you looking to change your VX2235wm, specifically? I don't think you'll get many improvements by going with another 22" TN.

But the 226BW/2232BW are trouble.

The w2207h is the best alternative. It is glossy, which your VX is not. It might actually help eye strain, but there's no way to know for sure. I don't think it uses aggressive overdrive if it uses any, but it's still a good gaming LCD.

Are the LG L227WTG or ASUS VW222U options for you?

Well I have a Samsung HD TV, and compared to that, my VX2235 gives very crappy results.

Anyway I went to check out the Samsung 2232BW today, and oh boy, I didn't even have to look for the blue color hue... it was very apparent. Even the "whites" were very bluish. I have to admit, my VX2235 is definitely better than those.

So I am going to check out what Asus, BenQ and Phillips there are, and hopefully can get some opinions. I am looking for a better panel, even if it means going 2'' less.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Pugnate
Well I have a Samsung HD TV, and compared to that, my VX2235 gives very crappy results.

Anyway I went to check out the Samsung 2232BW today, and oh boy, I didn't even have to look for the blue color hue... it was very apparent. Even the "whites" were very bluish. I have to admit, my VX2235 is definitely better than those.

So I am going to check out what Asus, BenQ and Phillips there are, and hopefully can get some opinions. I am looking for a better panel, even if it means going 2'' less.

I bet your HDTV is an S-PVA panel, and even at 20" there aren't many S-PVA panels. Do consider the AMVA/S-IPS HP LP2065, and S-PVA/S-IPS Dell 2007FP/2007WFP.

 

[Maleficus]

I got my monitor. so far I hate it. The monitor is good, i think, who can tell with these piece of shit LCD's.

The viewing angle is bullshit, i can't watch movies from my bed without adjusting it. The difference in height between my bed and chair relative ot my head positioning is not really all the different. it doesn't appear to be uniformly bright across the board, the colors seem to be getting better as warmup progresses i guess? idk. The colors aren't terrible if you squint hop on one foot and all that other bullshit to get just the right angle on the screen.

Overall I want to murder everyone who has contributed to the downfall of the CRT because they are clearly superior.

 

[marliz]

I'm overwhelmed: by the helpfulness of the forum members, but also from trying to wrap my brain around some of this information.

Photoshop is a hobby. I am partially disabled and barred from anything very active, so it is almost a lifesaving hobby for me. I edit and play with my own photos and those of my children and grandchildren. Sometimes I use Corel Painter, but have used Photoshop since version 5 so am still on the lower learning rungs for Painter.

I print my work on an Epson 3800 and do not publish to the web; if I understand correctly, that is where sRGB is important. My digital camera shots are usually raw and when I run them through Camera Raw, I send them to Photoshop as Adobe RGB 1998, 16 bit. All but older scans are 16 bit. Pro RGB imeans I have to jump back and forth from work done for RGB space and new work slanted for Pro RGB. I have pretty much decided I've been happy with Adobe RGB so it's less hassle to stick with it.

My two monitors (The NEC and the older Samsung) are running off one video card but now that I've arranged a desk space where I can stand sometimes, the monitors are too far apart to use as one; so I have to mirror them in order to have the menu bar and dock on both monitors. As a result, the NEC usuable space has shrunk to the size of the Samsung. I can change the mirror option when I work in Photoshop, keeping all my work on the NEC and pretending the Samsung isn't there.

I will have the same problem with a bigger NEC and my 20WMGX but the proportions might be better. Another option is to put in a second video card and run each monitor separately. I could still use the dual monitor setup at one station and the setup with the larger monitor at the other, but I have found that it's hard on my arm and wrist to have to move the mouse across that much real estate so want to go back to a single monitor again. I have tried the Wacom tablet, but arthritic fingers can't handle the pen well.

If the resolution is the same but the text larger on the 26" NEC that would be perfect. I can use the ease of reading larger text.

I do surf the web a fair amount. Hopefully the 26" NEC won't make reading harder. Color isn't an issue when surfing.

Hope that's not too much detail. I'm guessing from what I've read that the 26" NEC might be best; does that make sense or am I all mixed up? Also, I'm not opposed to suggestions on other monitors though the top of the line Eizo's and the like are out of budjet.

Thank you again!
Peggy

 

[Jincuteguy]

Anyone knows good LCD 24" monitor with glossy panel / screen for gaming? like around 5ms response time? I know those HP ones have glossy screen but I heard they're not good, or are they? Any other recommend?

 

[BassBomb]

Any reviews on Samsung 2253BW?

 

[off1c3r]

I have an HP LP2465 and I LOVE IT except for the gaming part and high input lag.. it makes a big difference to me. As per the thread I bought the 22" LG L227WTG and its great. Input lag is non existant. Only issue is that the HP towers over my LG. http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/ecl1pz/lcds.jpg The LG is too low. I love the HP much more but again the input lag. I got a replacement LCD from HP but i haven't tried it yet.. didn't even unbox it yet. If it has the same input lag.. does anyone know if the HP style LCD like the 2465 has any direct replacement? For now the 22" is nice to use with games but its so stupid to have to switch between 2 LCDs espically since I want to only use my 2465..

Thanks

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Maleficus
I got my monitor. so far I hate it. The monitor is good, i think, who can tell with these piece of shit LCD's.

The viewing angle is bullshit, i can't watch movies from my bed without adjusting it. The difference in height between my bed and chair relative ot my head positioning is not really all the different. it doesn't appear to be uniformly bright across the board, the colors seem to be getting better as warmup progresses i guess? idk. The colors aren't terrible if you squint hop on one foot and all that other bullshit to get just the right angle on the screen.

Overall I want to murder everyone who has contributed to the downfall of the CRT because they are clearly superior.

I don't know about the G2400WD but all TNs have the viewing angle issues. Consider a VA or IPS panel.

Originally posted by: marliz
I'm overwhelmed: by the helpfulness of the forum members, but also from trying to wrap my brain around some of this information.

Photoshop is a hobby. I am partially disabled and barred from anything very active, so it is almost a lifesaving hobby for me. I edit and play with my own photos and those of my children and grandchildren. Sometimes I use Corel Painter, but have used Photoshop since version 5 so am still on the lower learning rungs for Painter.

I print my work on an Epson 3800 and do not publish to the web; if I understand correctly, that is where sRGB is important.

sRGB is what you want if you're sending pictures to people who use sRGB monitors (99% of people have sRGB monitors now). This is also why the web is sRGB.

My digital camera shots are usually raw and when I run them through Camera Raw, I send them to Photoshop as Adobe RGB 1998, 16 bit. All but older scans are 16 bit. Pro RGB imeans I have to jump back and forth from work done for RGB space and new work slanted for Pro RGB. I have pretty much decided I've been happy with Adobe RGB so it's less hassle to stick with it.

My two monitors (The NEC and the older Samsung) are running off one video card but now that I've arranged a desk space where I can stand sometimes, the monitors are too far apart to use as one; so I have to mirror them in order to have the menu bar and dock on both monitors. As a result, the NEC usuable space has shrunk to the size of the Samsung. I can change the mirror option when I work in Photoshop, keeping all my work on the NEC and pretending the Samsung isn't there.

I will have the same problem with a bigger NEC and my 20WMGX but the proportions might be better. Another option is to put in a second video card and run each monitor separately. I could still use the dual monitor setup at one station and the setup with the larger monitor at the other, but I have found that it's hard on my arm and wrist to have to move the mouse across that much real estate so want to go back to a single monitor again. I have tried the Wacom tablet, but arthritic fingers can't handle the pen well.

If the resolution is the same but the text larger on the 26" NEC that would be perfect. I can use the ease of reading larger text.

I do surf the web a fair amount. Hopefully the 26" NEC won't make reading harder. Color isn't an issue when surfing.

Hope that's not too much detail. I'm guessing from what I've read that the 26" NEC might be best; does that make sense or am I all mixed up? Also, I'm not opposed to suggestions on other monitors though the top of the line Eizo's and the like are out of budjet.

Thank you again!
Peggy

It sounds like the NEC 26" is the best option for you then. It matches the Adobe RGB 1998 space which you do a lot of work in. The DoubleSight DS-263N is essentially the same thing but cheaper. The NEC allows better calibration if you actually spend the extra on the kit, otherwise the LCD2690 is probably not worth it over the DS-263N. You can still calibrate the DS-263N decently well with a calibrator. $500+ more is a lot of money for little or no benefit!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Any reviews on Samsung 2253BW?

Haven't seen a single one.

Originally posted by: off1c3r
I have an HP LP2465 and I LOVE IT except for the gaming part and high input lag.. it makes a big difference to me. As per the thread I bought the 22" LG L227WTG and its great. Input lag is non existant. Only issue is that the HP towers over my LG. http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/ecl1pz/lcds.jpg The LG is too low. I love the HP much more but again the input lag. I got a replacement LCD from HP but i haven't tried it yet.. didn't even unbox it yet. If it has the same input lag.. does anyone know if the HP style LCD like the 2465 has any direct replacement? For now the 22" is nice to use with games but its so stupid to have to switch between 2 LCDs espically since I want to only use my 2465..

Thanks

There is no replacement from HP for the LP2465. But the w2408 is a glossy 24" that would somewhat match your 22". It may be faster since it's a TN. On the other hand you may be trading some VA advantages (contrast, color) when you use a TN. I wouldn't totally ditch the LP2465 yet unless you really don't plan on keeping it because of that lag.

You could get VESA stands or use height adjustment if at all possible on either of these models.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Jincuteguy
Anyone knows good LCD 24" monitor with glossy panel / screen for gaming? like around 5ms response time? I know those HP ones have glossy screen but I heard they're not good, or are they? Any other recommend?

The Gateway FHD2400 works, I'm not sure how it compares to the HP w2408. The w2408 actually got pretty good reviews at prad so I'd recommend it. Not sure what you mean by HPs getting bad reviews, they're usually pretty good (except the w2207 which was just marginal).

http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev.../review-hp-w2408h.html

 

[off1c3r]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: BassBomb
Any reviews on Samsung 2253BW?

Haven't seen a single one.

Originally posted by: off1c3r
I have an HP LP2465 and I LOVE IT except for the gaming part and high input lag.. it makes a big difference to me. As per the thread I bought the 22" LG L227WTG and its great. Input lag is non existant. Only issue is that the HP towers over my LG. http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p192/ecl1pz/lcds.jpg The LG is too low. I love the HP much more but again the input lag. I got a replacement LCD from HP but i haven't tried it yet.. didn't even unbox it yet. If it has the same input lag.. does anyone know if the HP style LCD like the 2465 has any direct replacement? For now the 22" is nice to use with games but its so stupid to have to switch between 2 LCDs espically since I want to only use my 2465..

Thanks

There is no replacement from HP for the LP2465. But the w2408 is a glossy 24" that would somewhat match your 22". It may be faster since it's a TN. On the other hand you may be trading some VA advantages (contrast, color) when you use a TN. I wouldn't totally ditch the LP2465 yet unless you really don't plan on keeping it because of that lag.

You could get VESA stands or use height adjustment if at all possible on either of these models.

Thanks for reply... Just looked up the w2408 and its a nice looking monitor. I'll read into it and stuff and maybe try it out. I mean Don't get me wrong, I Love the 2465.. the size, bezel, stand, options etc. Everything about it I love except for that one issue with input lag. Once I went to a 24" screen.. anything smaller just seems wrong you know? I mean the 22" LG is great for games and such.. i jsut use nview to switch between each one for now. (unrelated: Everytime I play counterstrike in the resolution for the 22 some stuff in game gets cut off from the screen.. when i go a size below native, it shows a little more.. I don't know weird because my lp2465 in native shows everything fine and its res is bigger) ...

On a brighter note I still have that replacement 2465 that HP sent me that I haven't tried yet.. who knows it might have elimiated the input lag because I have heard a couple stories of that happening.. actually, not a couple.. just one heh =/

I'll look into the vesa stands too.. i didn't even think about changing them

 

[BlackJack3]

Hey guys; Noob poster here who registered because of this thread. I'm in need of a new monitor now. My needs are most importantly gaming followed by general productivity (web surfing/email/Office) and some light photo editing/management. Despite the drawbacks of TN panels, I"m really interested in a 22 inch display, because I feel it's the perfect combo of size and resolution for games (I have a really shallow desk and thus sit really close to my monitor as is, plus I'd rather have a lower res and more FPS for games at my monitor's native res). My choices right now are

1. LG L227WTG-PF. I saw that this is the first recommended gaming monitor in this thread. I only see it for sale at Best Buy right now for $340 though.

2. Samsung 2253BW. From what I can tell, this is the successor to some previous highly regarded Samsung 22 inch monitors for gaming. $290 right now before rebate.

3. Samsung T220 "Touch of Color" Series: This recently went on sale at Newegg. From what I can tell it is the exact same as the 2253BW with a more a stylish bezel? The only spec difference I can find is that is has a higher dynamic contrast ratio but I've heard DC ratios are mostly marketing bunk. $300 right now before rebate.

4. Acer AL2216Wbd. A budget option for only $220 right now.


I just want to add that whatever I buy will be a stop gap solution for 1-3 years until LCD tech gets more situated in general, especially in the 24+ inch range. I figure I'd pick up an affordable 22 inch panel right now and down the road once LED or maybe even OLED panels are more common, upgrade to a bigger (more expensive) panel. That 25.5 inch Doublesight monitor in the original posts is tempting but I don't think I'm ready for that size monitor until I get a bigger desk and don't want to spend over $400 at the moment.