[Retired] The LCD Thread

[Squidmaster]

I received my 2nd panel (first had defects reported here) from Amazon (Harrisburg, PA) two days ago. I just set it up to test it last night. Here are my findings using Toasty's default monitor settings without the profile:

[*]This panel has the polarizer
[*]0 stuck/dead pixels
[*]lagom gamma: 1.8/2.1/2.1. I can get the first gamma bar near 2.2 by turning contrast to 25%, but light gray starts to shade towards purple.
[*]inversion test: 4a/4b flicker noticeably, 2a/2b have very minor flicker, and the icon for the inversion test at the top flickers
[*]Sharpness test: blends smoothly around 12-15 feet away. The center circle is lighter than the background
[*]White test: the last few boxes are really hard to see if not completely white.

My last panel with the electrical issues gave me similar results on these tests. I don't recall if the #2 images flickered at all on that panel but otherwise the rest is identical.

I'd say I got a pretty good screen, but I need some assistance setting it up properly. When you install a profile does your system require a reboot? I have a pretty good eye for color, but when I loaded Toasty's profile from this thread, there was no perceptible difference on the desktop or in Photoshop. I know Photoshop recognized that I had a profile in the first place, because initially I loaded the flawed one from DS and it gave me grief about it.

If I can get some help with ICC profiles within Windows and Photoshop proper I'd appreciate it. Right now my panel displays things skewed toward the light end of the spectrum and I'd like to balance it out, as apparently many of you have. I use the RGB color space frequently in PS, CMYK on occasion. Neither looks right at the moment but I don't know how to tweak the settings to get the most accurate results.

Thanks!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: UzairH
Hi guys, xtknight specially - thanks for the outstanding resource! I am considering finally replacing my 21" CRT with a 22" to 24" LCD, the main thing holding me back has been the concern that the racing sims I play would suffer from lag on an LCD, and for a type of game which requires < 0.1 response from the user, that's a strict no-no. xtknight you suggest the LG L227WT as the best gaming LCD, and since the DoubleSight DS-263N monitors are not listed on pricerunner.se (and is out my current range anyway), the other monitor I am considering is the BenQ G2400W. Both these are TN panels with 6-bit + FRC. While they do have non-existent lag, I am not sure about how 6-bit panels display colors, whether they are anywhere near as good as 8-bit LCD and CRT displays. I would hate to get any color banding or poor range. I am not expecting a miracle, but since I also watch movies and do photo editing I would like the colors to at least 'appear' as good as my old 8-bit CRT.

Since I've never used any 6-bit TN panel before, what can I expect from the LG L227WT or the BenQ G2400W in terms of color reproduction and range?

Oh, the difference between 6-bit and 8-bit isn't that big. The vast majority of people love the images of 6-bit TN panels, as they are high contrast, vibrant, and deliver a good punch. But yes sometimes details can be concealed, particularly in the darker shades. If I had to guess you'd do just fine with it though.

Do note the L227WT is a wide gamut, glossy LCD. You can also consider the ASUS VW222u: it might be better for photo editing because it is normal gamut and matte. It is just as fast, as far as I can tell. Although I don't believe the glossy matters that much, it may if you have a lot of reflections. And with wide gamut you'd need to use a profile for editing sRGB(99% standard) pictures.

If you have any doubts check here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl.../22inch-2_8.html#sect0

Very good response speed.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: modnart
Hi all!

I need some advice. My awesome CRT LaCie electronBlue 22" served me well for 7.5 years but now it is in hospice.

My dilemma is this...I do both print and web work! So, I am interested in the color accuracy of the LaCie's LCDs, the NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi, the Doublesight DS-263N. How will this effect my RGB/web work?

With any of these monitors will I be able to create two different profiles for web vs print use?

And which do you recommend for my uses?

Thanks!

The DS-263N will suit you just fine but if you'd like an extra slight edge you can consider the LCD2690. The DS-263N will work best calibrated, while calibration is more or less optional on the LCD26 but getting the internal calibration/SpectraView kit (available optionally or in bundle as SV 2690 model) delivers image quality to behold.

These LCDs will be fine for normal gamut work, just make sure you use a profile in Photoshop and specify one for Firefox 3 or Safari, whichever browser you prefer. IE and Opera don't support color profiles yet. You'll probably have some reading to do.

Originally posted by: Squidmaster
I received my 2nd panel (first had defects reported here) from Amazon (Harrisburg, PA) two days ago. I just set it up to test it last night. Here are my findings using Toasty's default monitor settings without the profile:

[*]This panel has the polarizer
[*]0 stuck/dead pixels
[*]lagom gamma: 1.8/2.1/2.1. I can get the first gamma bar near 2.2 by turning contrast to 25%, but light gray starts to shade towards purple.
[*]inversion test: 4a/4b flicker noticeably, 2a/2b have very minor flicker, and the icon for the inversion test at the top flickers
[*]Sharpness test: blends smoothly around 12-15 feet away. The center circle is lighter than the background
[*]White test: the last few boxes are really hard to see if not completely white.

My last panel with the electrical issues gave me similar results on these tests. I don't recall if the #2 images flickered at all on that panel but otherwise the rest is identical.

I'd say I got a pretty good screen, but I need some assistance setting it up properly. When you install a profile does your system require a reboot? I have a pretty good eye for color, but when I loaded Toasty's profile from this thread, there was no perceptible difference on the desktop or in Photoshop. I know Photoshop recognized that I had a profile in the first place, because initially I loaded the flawed one from DS and it gave me grief about it.

Nope, but when you load the ICM Windows just loads the gamut settings in. You need to get a program that grabs the gamma table from the ICM and uploads it to your card, which in itself does not require rebooting. Depends if you use XP or Vista. Personally I prefer the xcalib program just because it's simple and it works, but the MS WinColor Windows color applet is good too (requires .NET). Trust me there are many guides on this and do check the OP for more info on "Profiles" (keyword).

If I can get some help with ICC profiles within Windows and Photoshop proper I'd appreciate it. Right now my panel displays things skewed toward the light end of the spectrum and I'd like to balance it out, as apparently many of you have. I use the RGB color space frequently in PS, CMYK on occasion. Neither looks right at the moment but I don't know how to tweak the settings to get the most accurate results.

Thanks!

I'll be honest I don't even know how to use the profiles with Photoshop. The terminology is quite confusing, although I'm sure someone out there does. I haven't had the patience to read up on it because I don't actually do any work (just kidding, I don't do print work though!)

Loading the gamma profile in with xcalib/WinColor should allow the DS-263N to reach its capacity (assuming Toasty's DS-263N is anything like yours). Adjusting it manually is usually complicated and endless without the help of a hardware calibrator.

 

[Kev1000000]

So, I received my DS-263N, and I have one major annoying problem with it. Every time I switch sources or my computer resumes from sleep/power-save, my monitor will NOT turn back on with the DVI input. This is very, very frustrating. Has anyone else had this issue? What can be done?

I have already installed the latest videocard drivers...

 

[BassBomb]

My uncle just snagged a HP 2035, I am wondering whether it is an IPS.

Viewing angles are 170 170 so I don't think it is.

 

[Jodiuh]

Kev: Does your BIOS have an option to repost video after sleep?

XT: I see you have the wonderful NEC and would like to know what you'd recommend for someone that loves that panel, his S-IPS Dell, but yearns for better blacks and 24". I may end up checking the DS, but would really love a 24" w/ <1ms lag, 2000:1, a perfect viewing angle, and some serious extras like array mic, speakers that don't terribly suck, usb hubs, media readers, 2xHDMI, 2xDVI, etc...

EDIT: all black, thin bezel, blue led, good menu, profiles, tilt, height, swivel, sink...

 

[Kev1000000]

Originally posted by: Jodiuh
Kev: Does your BIOS have an option to repost video after sleep?

XT: I see you have the wonderful NEC and would like to know what you'd recommend for someone that loves that panel, his S-IPS Dell, but yearns for better blacks and 24". I may end up checking the DS, but would really love a 24" w/ <1ms lag, 2000:1, a perfect viewing angle, and some serious extras like array mic, speakers that don't terribly suck, usb hubs, media readers, 2xHDMI, 2xDVI, etc...

EDIT: all black, thin bezel, blue led, good menu, profiles, tilt, height, swivel, sink...

Is it really a BIOS setting though if after I switch sources I cant get the signal back from my comp?

Any time I "lose" (powersave, switch sources, etc) the signal from my GPU, I cant get it back without restarting.

I'll check out my BIOS options though.

 

[nevbie]

Originally posted by: UzairH
Hi guys, xtknight specially - thanks for the outstanding resource! I am considering finally replacing my 21" CRT with a 22" to 24" LCD, the main thing holding me back has been the concern that the racing sims I play would suffer from lag on an LCD, and for a type of game which requires < 0.1 response from the user, that's a strict no-no.

I believe your worst enemy would be the input lag in this situation. I doubt the pixel response time will be a problem as long as you pick a monitor with response time compensation or similar tech.

I'm using a HP LP2065 S-IPS monitor and input lag has a serious effect for fast games.. I ended up using both my old CRT and new LCD because they have opposite strengths for different situations.

Too bad xbitlabs doesn't include any kind of input lag test.

 

[modnart]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: modnart
Hi all!

I need some advice. My awesome CRT LaCie electronBlue 22" served me well for 7.5 years but now it is in hospice.

My dilemma is this...I do both print and web work! So, I am interested in the color accuracy of the LaCie's LCDs, the NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi, the Doublesight DS-263N. How will this effect my RGB/web work?

With any of these monitors will I be able to create two different profiles for web vs print use?

And which do you recommend for my uses?

Thanks!

The DS-263N will suit you just fine but if you'd like an extra slight edge you can consider the LCD2690. The DS-263N will work best calibrated, while calibration is more or less optional on the LCD26 but getting the internal calibration/SpectraView kit (available optionally or in bundle as SV 2690 model) delivers image quality to behold.

These LCDs will be fine for normal gamut work, just make sure you use a profile in Photoshop and specify one for Firefox 3 or Safari, whichever browser you prefer. IE and Opera don't support color profiles yet. You'll probably have some reading to do.

Thanks, xtknight!

Do I really need a hardware calibrator? Or, will my Mac's Colorsync Calibrator do the job? (I once had a hardware calibrator with a Radius CRT and was not sure it was any more successful. That was a long time ago, has the hardware improved?)

 

[smcinsjc]

What would you guys recommend for a decent 24" monitor for general office and occasional light gaming use? Looking for a non-TN screen, probably a S-PVA screen, at least a reasonable price of some sort, and available for either picking up or ordering TODAY.

 

[Shura]

Hello everyone, i tried to refrain from posting lame posts and research instead but i couldn't refrain from posting on this issue.
I just build myself a system and i bought 24inch samsubng 245bw(5ms response) from costco @399 + tax

i love the size of the screen, its true that there is no such thing as monitor 2 big

however, i had 19 CRT before and i can't help but notice slight bluring when i play games. Weather its AirRivals or Call of duty 2 or stalker, i see slight blur when i move. other than that, its very sharp image. i didn't calibrate the monitor, but to my understanding its just for color accuracy. is it normal to see blur at 5 ms or do i have crappy monitor. please advice. Thank you.

ps specs
e8400(not OCed)
2 9600 gt oc leadtek
2 gb ram mushkin

 

[LittleNemoNES]

Firefox 3 is a lifesaver for wide gamut browsing. Too bad Vista is not color managed. Considering that IE8 is supposed to be color managed, HOPEFULLY Windows 7 will be too.

 

[Doom Machine]

I am thinking about getting a small 1080p-120hz lcd TV to replace my gateway xxxwhateverxxx85w monitor

would it be better?

 

[inkblot]

The CRT that I had been using for years finally got too fuzzy looking to use, so I switched to a spare LCD that was lying around the house. However, its cheap and old, and the ghosting is horrific. I don't need a big screen or extremely high quality image, just something that won't ghost or lag when gaming. A 19" is fine. My budget is around 200$, maybe stretching to 250 if its worth it. So far the best I can find is the LG L1933TR-SF at 200 (from Newegg). Is there anything better in the price range?

 

[toadeater]

Originally posted by: modnart
Doublesight DS-263N. How will this effect my RGB/web work?

Color reproduction is as good as those $1200 NECs or Apple Cinema Displays. That's what you can expect from the DS for about half the price. (Yes, I do own one, and do freelance photo editing work with it.)

 

[Squidmaster]

Originally posted by: Kev1000000
So, I received my DS-263N, and I have one major annoying problem with it. Every time I switch sources or my computer resumes from sleep/power-save, my monitor will NOT turn back on with the DVI input. This is very, very frustrating. Has anyone else had this issue? What can be done?

I have already installed the latest videocard drivers...

My first screen had a problem with endless "find hardware" type beeping in sleep mode and with screensavers displayed. I got a replacement and this doesn't happen anymore. It seems that maybe the reason this monitor is cheaper is that the non-panel elements are sorta thrown together a bit carelessly. I recommend getting a replacement, as this worked for me.

 

[Kev1000000]

Originally posted by: Squidmaster

Originally posted by: Kev1000000
So, I received my DS-263N, and I have one major annoying problem with it. Every time I switch sources or my computer resumes from sleep/power-save, my monitor will NOT turn back on with the DVI input. This is very, very frustrating. Has anyone else had this issue? What can be done?

I have already installed the latest videocard drivers...

My first screen had a problem with endless "find hardware" type beeping in sleep mode and with screensavers displayed. I got a replacement and this doesn't happen anymore. It seems that maybe the reason this monitor is cheaper is that the non-panel elements are sorta thrown together a bit carelessly. I recommend getting a replacement, as this worked for me.

Well, the thing is, I purchased a Dell 2408 before the DS and returned it (due to its high input lag). But the 2408 had the same problem.

I have a ATI Radeon x850 and i am running at 1920x1200 @ 60hz. There shouldnt be a problem with single-link DVI right? My previous 2407 (A01) did not have this problem.

 

[TM2 Rampage]

Originally posted by: Shura
Hello everyone, i tried to refrain from posting lame posts and research instead but i couldn't refrain from posting on this issue.
I just build myself a system and i bought 24inch samsubng 245bw(5ms response) from costco @399 + tax

i love the size of the screen, its true that there is no such thing as monitor 2 big

however, i had 19 CRT before and i can't help but notice slight bluring when i play games. Weather its AirRivals or Call of duty 2 or stalker, i see slight blur when i move. other than that, its very sharp image. i didn't calibrate the monitor, but to my understanding its just for color accuracy. is it normal to see blur at 5 ms or do i have crappy monitor. please advice. Thank you.

ps specs
e8400(not OCed)
2 9600 gt oc leadtek
2 gb ram mushkin

Try turning off rapid response or whatever they call it in the monitor's menu.

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Kev1000000

Originally posted by: Squidmaster

Originally posted by: Kev1000000
So, I received my DS-263N, and I have one major annoying problem with it. Every time I switch sources or my computer resumes from sleep/power-save, my monitor will NOT turn back on with the DVI input. This is very, very frustrating. Has anyone else had this issue? What can be done?

I have already installed the latest videocard drivers...

My first screen had a problem with endless "find hardware" type beeping in sleep mode and with screensavers displayed. I got a replacement and this doesn't happen anymore. It seems that maybe the reason this monitor is cheaper is that the non-panel elements are sorta thrown together a bit carelessly. I recommend getting a replacement, as this worked for me.

Well, the thing is, I purchased a Dell 2408 before the DS and returned it (due to its high input lag). But the 2408 had the same problem.

I have a ATI Radeon x850 and i am running at 1920x1200 @ 60hz. There shouldnt be a problem with single-link DVI right? My previous 2407 (A01) did not have this problem.

I believe dual-link DVI is only required to the uber-high resolutions of the 30" monitors. I know that 1920x1200 does not require dual-link DVI. I'm not sure if there's any advantage to having dual-link DVI for lower resolutions that do not require it.

 

[Kev1000000]

Yea, that is what I thought. Like I said, my previous 2407 had no problem with my setup. However, both the 2408 and DS-263N will not re-sync with my computer. My Xbox 360 over VGA works great and picks up the signal everytime.

This is so damn frustrating...

 

[Squidmaster]

I downloaded the Microsoft Color Control Panel Applet for XP, and nothing changes at all. Where should I notice the change? I'm looking at a website of my own creation, so I feel like I know the color scheme there quite well and could compare, but there is absolutely no change to the naked eye between having no profile and having Toasty's. Gamma is still off by exactly the same amount, etc. I'd really like to fix the gamma at the least.

Do I install the profile in both the color tool and via the monitor advanced settings or just in one? If I install the profile in Windows, do I still do it in Photoshop as well?

I have 2 monitors on the same video card, and they both show up as "plug and play monitor" in the color tool. Is monitor #1 always the top one? It also appears that applying a profile applies to both, so maybe this is a moot point. I could use a few tips.

 

[zod96]

Does the LG L227WTG have 1:1 pixel mapping? And does it offer the option to run 4:3

 

[modnart]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: modnart
Hi all!

I need some advice. My awesome CRT LaCie electronBlue 22" served me well for 7.5 years but now it is in hospice.

My dilemma is this...I do both print and web work! So, I am interested in the color accuracy of the LaCie's LCDs, the NEC MultiSync LCD2690WUXi, the Doublesight DS-263N. How will this effect my RGB/web work?

With any of these monitors will I be able to create two different profiles for web vs print use?

And which do you recommend for my uses?

Thanks!

The DS-263N will suit you just fine but if you'd like an extra slight edge you can consider the LCD2690. The DS-263N will work best calibrated, while calibration is more or less optional on the LCD26 but getting the internal calibration/SpectraView kit (available optionally or in bundle as SV 2690 model) delivers image quality to behold.

These LCDs will be fine for normal gamut work, just make sure you use a profile in Photoshop and specify one for Firefox 3 or Safari, whichever browser you prefer. IE and Opera don't support color profiles yet. You'll probably have some reading to do.

LaCie is offering me a discount on a replacement! I am not considering the LaCie 26" because I would just go for the NEC LCD2690. But, what do you know about the 24"?

I saw it side by side with the ACD 23 and dragging a photoshop image across both screens the LaCie blew the ACD away. Does anyone have any info on this panel? The website says its a wide gamut (95% Adobe RGB / 99.7% of ISO Coated) S-PVA panel with a 10-bit gamma correction. PVA?? Should I even consider a PVA over IPS?

Thanks!

 

[kalrith]

Originally posted by: Doom Machine
I am thinking about getting a small 1080p-120hz lcd TV to replace my gateway xxxwhateverxxx85w monitor

would it be better?

I'm thinking about doing the same thing: a 32" 1080p TV to be exact. I think it's between that and the DS-263N, but I'll have to wait at least a few months before the purchase.

IIRC the 120Hz won't help at all as a computer monitor and might even introduce input lag.

 

[Doom Machine]

Originally posted by: kalrith

Originally posted by: Doom Machine

IIRC the 120Hz won't help at all as a computer monitor and might even introduce input lag.

really, never heard that