[Retired] The LCD Thread

[hypeMarked]

Thanks xtknight. I asked because I want to get the BenQ from Amazon (I have some gift cards to use) and the only model they have is the G2400WD.

 

[nirnis]

My first post here, so bear with me...

A new S-IPS just appeared, the LG L2000CP and
it is quite affordable.

Anybody have any data on it?
Any better than the previous L2000C model?

 

[ControlD]

I am looking to upgrade from my Dell 1905FP to a new panel as I have a need for the 1905 elsewhere. My main uses for this system are gaming (mainly FPS and other graphically intense games), some amateur level photo and movie editing, and surfing. I think something in a 20" or 22" widescreen would fit well in the space I have. I am mainly intersted in the LG 227WT, LG2252, Samsung 2253BW, Dell E228, and BenQ G2200. I will confess that the reason these monitors interest me is due to price and speed. I love my 1905FP, but it isn't the fastest when it comes to games or video. From the product recommendations I am sure the LG 227WT will be the top choice, but I am not sure about the glossy screen. Are any of the others listed in the same class, or should I stick with the 227WT? Also, will I see a noticeable decrease in image quality moving to a TN panel from my 1905FP?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

 

[blingboi]

Originally posted by: DaveStall
I am looking to upgrade from my Dell 1905FP to a new panel as I have a need for the 1905 elsewhere. My main uses for this system are gaming (mainly FPS and other graphically intense games), some amateur level photo and movie editing, and surfing. I think something in a 20" or 22" widescreen would fit well in the space I have. I am mainly intersted in the LG 227WT, LG2252, Samsung 2253BW, Dell E228, and BenQ G2200. I will confess that the reason these monitors interest me is due to price and speed. I love my 1905FP, but it isn't the fastest when it comes to games or video. From the product recommendations I am sure the LG 227WT will be the top choice, but I am not sure about the glossy screen. Are any of the others listed in the same class, or should I stick with the 227WT? Also, will I see a noticeable decrease in image quality moving to a TN panel from my 1905FP?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

the ASUS VW222u has been recommended a lot for the matte gaming 22" from what I've read

 

[ControlD]

Originally posted by: blingboi

the ASUS VW222u has been recommended a lot for the matte gaming 22" from what I've read

Thanks for that. The Asus looks like an option as well.

After looking at the LG website, it appears the the 2252TQ is pretty much the same as the 227 without the gloss finish. Can anyone else verify that?

Dave

 

[blingboi]

Hey guys, i currently have a Samsung T220 and find it suitable for my tastes except one thing that bugs me, the back light bleeding at the top and bottom of the screen. You can't really see it in a well lit room, but in a darkened room there seems to be about 1/4-1/2 inch of back light bleed along the top and bottom of the monitor.

Is this plausible reason for me to go exchange it at Best Buy where I purchased it? I might get stuck with one thats worse or something. I already exchanged it once explaining there was black light bleeding and stuck or dead pixels. They told me they couldn't see anything and I realized Best Buy is extremely bright and it would be impossible to notice it but didn't say anything because they exchanged it for me anyway. They'll probably give me a hassle again and I might have to get angry and tell them that it's hard to see anything in a well lit area.

I know theres always going to be back light bleeding, so I was just wondering what everyone else's thoughts were about this.

 

[jon754]

yes xknight 4:3 mode seems to work just fine. i really do wish it could do 1:1 tho so i could use it with consoles.

when i first took it out if the box i thought i made i big mistake buying it. i was horrified at how reflective the screen is lol. when it's not on the screen is like a mirror but when it's turned on you don't really notice reflections at all. the image quality is the best i've seen in an lcd monitor. like i said, the only bad things are the viewing angles and it's a little sensitive to compression artifacts in movies. after using it for a few weeks i can honestly say there's no way i could go back to my crt.

 

[DRavisher]

I don't know if you've (xtknight) learned this already, but back in june 2007 I asked how LCDs updated themselves. That is, weather they buffered a whole frame and then updated all the pixles at once, which a lot of people think they do, or if they did it as the frame data came in, like a CRT does it. Anal retentive geek that I am (none of my friends are anywhere near as pleased with the solving of this mystery as I am ) I've just bought a Casio EX-F1 high-speed camera and filmed my laptops LCD. It turns out that (at least this particular) LCDs update just like CRTs. Filmed at 1200 fps it takes 20 frames for the entire screen to have begun changing from one color to another, which perfectly corresponds to a 60 Hz refresh rate.

 

[z270]

Hey guys, totally newbie here. I'm wondering if I could get some advice on some monitors here.
I'm looking to get a monitor for general use for my computer, specially for gaming on PC, and as well to use for my PS3 and Bluray movies.

-So I guess what I'm looking for would be able to display 1080p resolution. I know since most monitors are 16:10 I'm looking for 1:1 pixel mapping
-HDCP Ready and preferably has HDMI Input
-Not too expensive, I'm in Canada and my budget is about 400-500$ CND perhaps a little more
-Since I'm gonna be watching HD movie as well as gaming I want to have almost perfect colours and little ghosting (This is my newbness showing, I don't know if thats even possible within my price range)
-Good quality LCD (I hear TN isn't very good) no bleeding, etc
I dont really know anything about response times and contrast and stuff like that
Anything out there that can do all of that haha?

I appreciate any help you guys can offer and sorry if I'm being troublesome

EDIT: 22-24" would be what Id have to go with to get those resolutions right?

 

[PBy]

to xtknight,
just a thank you for your advice re how LCD monitors and video cards work with each other. The Eizo CE210W has now been withdrawn, so I am still looking although the NEC remains the favourite. One monitor that has recently appeared is the Samsung XL30, which has a LED backlight rather than CCFL, producing a much wider colour gamut. Has anyone any experience or thoughts about this?

 

[PBy]

Sorry, I should have typed Samsung XL20. The XL30 is way out of my price range!!

 

[z28dreams]

OP,

I noticed that you had the Westinghouse L2410NM 24" listed as a "display du jour", but it is not included in your rankings.
Any reason?

I'm looking for the following:
- 24" size
- primary uses will be text editing ( excel, programming, web design ) and watching movies
- inexpensive - looking to find something like $600-$700 on sale

Which would you recommend for me? My biggest gripes with most LCD monitors are black levels. Also, I'm not interested in a TN panel - only VA / IPS.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Champ
I was wondering if I would see a difference between single link DVI, Dual Link DVI or HDMI, on the main page is says that HDMI then dual link, but will it make a noticable difference over single link DVI, or is it a difference that is there but you cannot tell?

Digital
HDMI (165 MHz+)
Dual-link DVI (310 MHz)
Single-link DVI (165 MHz)

Also does anyone know when we will be seeing HDMI on videocards

There's no difference between the three of these as long as they 'support' the resolution you're using. For instance, you might need dual-link DVI to do 2560x1600. HDMI can also accommodate 2560x1600 but you won't see a difference.

Originally posted by: Aggressor22
Your explanation is very easy to understand, i feel the dell 2408WFP perfectly suits my needs. Its a bonus that i can order it via my work, which comes with 5 years warrenty + its cheaper.

Gonna order this one coming monday for 550 euro's.
Btw, you seem to be right as in DisplayMate the 2408 outscored the 2470 NEC here:
http://reviews.cnet.com/lcd-mo...5-3174_7-32886455.html

Rare is that it only has a contrast ratio of 891:1 on that review, while here:
http://bp2.blogger.com/_0-tLLf...0-h/Black+Contrast.jpg

It does have 1111, which is alot more?

Anyway, this 2408wfp is better then the other considered HP lp2465 also?
Another question is, on Prad.de, they gave the 2407-HC just a + for 'Subjective impression of image quality', does the 2408 better here?

Thanks for your helpfull input, im glad to have made a choice after 3 months for search for a 24'' beast

The 2408 is also better than the LP2465. Contrast measurements vary depending on the brightness at which they measured it.

EDIT:

Last questions xtknight, this review rates the 2408 very bad:
http://www.behardware.com/arti...th-iolair-vs-dell.html

Should i bother or not?
Second question, should i wait for the revA01 version? or can i order it now without needing to worry about big differences?

Thx

I don't think A01 is a big enough deal to be waiting for it. The 2408 is quite good as-is. I think the only thing they were going to fix in A01 was slight response time issues.

About BeHardware, well the US doesn't have Iolair so the 2408 is what we're stuck with. But judging by other reviews online, the 2408 is not bad at all. I'm not sure why they say it's not suitable for several things, because IMO it is suitable just fine for many of them, but the Iolair may be better.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: blingboi
Are there any retailers carrying the ASUS VW222u, i really want to look at it before I buy it. I'm not sure buying it online and realizing I can't live with the amount of back light bleeding and would want to exchange it is cost effective.

I'm choosing it because I don't like glossy because I'm ugly and I don't like looking at my reflection and I heard it's the best gaming LCD thats matte.

I don't believe any brick and mortar stores carry the VW222u. I don't know if any of the online retailers that carry it have good return policies. It looks like J&R might, just after briefly going through their policy: http://www.jr.com/asus/pe/ASU_VW222U/

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: nirnis
My first post here, so bear with me...

A new S-IPS just appeared, the LG L2000CP and
it is quite affordable.

Anybody have any data on it?
Any better than the previous L2000C model?

Availability and reviews seem very poor at the moment, so no info yet, sorry.

Originally posted by: DaveStall
I am looking to upgrade from my Dell 1905FP to a new panel as I have a need for the 1905 elsewhere. My main uses for this system are gaming (mainly FPS and other graphically intense games), some amateur level photo and movie editing, and surfing. I think something in a 20" or 22" widescreen would fit well in the space I have. I am mainly intersted in the LG 227WT, LG2252, Samsung 2253BW, Dell E228, and BenQ G2200. I will confess that the reason these monitors interest me is due to price and speed. I love my 1905FP, but it isn't the fastest when it comes to games or video. From the product recommendations I am sure the LG 227WT will be the top choice, but I am not sure about the glossy screen. Are any of the others listed in the same class, or should I stick with the 227WT? Also, will I see a noticeable decrease in image quality moving to a TN panel from my 1905FP?

Thanks in advance,

Dave

The VW222u is what I'd recommend. The 1905 is a VA panel meaning you'd be taking a step down in viewing angles, but a step up in speed with the TNs.

Failing that, the Samsung 2253BW is my next choice, I guess. I believe the 2253BW is a panel lottery so you risk getting a panel with a dominance in blue.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: blingboi
Hey guys, i currently have a Samsung T220 and find it suitable for my tastes except one thing that bugs me, the back light bleeding at the top and bottom of the screen. You can't really see it in a well lit room, but in a darkened room there seems to be about 1/4-1/2 inch of back light bleed along the top and bottom of the monitor.

Is this plausible reason for me to go exchange it at Best Buy where I purchased it? I might get stuck with one thats worse or something. I already exchanged it once explaining there was black light bleeding and stuck or dead pixels. They told me they couldn't see anything and I realized Best Buy is extremely bright and it would be impossible to notice it but didn't say anything because they exchanged it for me anyway. They'll probably give me a hassle again and I might have to get angry and tell them that it's hard to see anything in a well lit area.

I know theres always going to be back light bleeding, so I was just wondering what everyone else's thoughts were about this.

Everyone has a different idea of what's "normal" but the bleeding on most LCDs I've seen is something you could probably get used to. If you can't deal with that then you'd have to to go with a higher quality model because quality control on the lower end TNs isn't always so good. You're taking a gamble.

Originally posted by: jon754
yes xknight 4:3 mode seems to work just fine. i really do wish it could do 1:1 tho so i could use it with consoles.

when i first took it out if the box i thought i made i big mistake buying it. i was horrified at how reflective the screen is lol. when it's not on the screen is like a mirror but when it's turned on you don't really notice reflections at all. the image quality is the best i've seen in an lcd monitor. like i said, the only bad things are the viewing angles and it's a little sensitive to compression artifacts in movies. after using it for a few weeks i can honestly say there's no way i could go back to my crt.

That is good to know.

Originally posted by: DRavisher
I don't know if you've (xtknight) learned this already, but back in june 2007 I asked how LCDs updated themselves. That is, weather they buffered a whole frame and then updated all the pixles at once, which a lot of people think they do, or if they did it as the frame data came in, like a CRT does it. Anal retentive geek that I am (none of my friends are anywhere near as pleased with the solving of this mystery as I am ) I've just bought a Casio EX-F1 high-speed camera and filmed my laptops LCD. It turns out that (at least this particular) LCDs update just like CRTs. Filmed at 1200 fps it takes 20 frames for the entire screen to have begun changing from one color to another, which perfectly corresponds to a 60 Hz refresh rate.

Hmm, so the screen updates in a top-down pattern, but not all at once? That's cool, thanks for the info. I wonder if it's different with laptop LCDs though, particularly older ones. Newer technology brought newer electrical interfaces, etc but I have to admit I don't know much about it.

Originally posted by: z270
Hey guys, totally newbie here. I'm wondering if I could get some advice on some monitors here.
I'm looking to get a monitor for general use for my computer, specially for gaming on PC, and as well to use for my PS3 and Bluray movies.

-So I guess what I'm looking for would be able to display 1080p resolution. I know since most monitors are 16:10 I'm looking for 1:1 pixel mapping
-HDCP Ready and preferably has HDMI Input
-Not too expensive, I'm in Canada and my budget is about 400-500$ CND perhaps a little more
-Since I'm gonna be watching HD movie as well as gaming I want to have almost perfect colours and little ghosting (This is my newbness showing, I don't know if thats even possible within my price range)
-Good quality LCD (I hear TN isn't very good) no bleeding, etc
I dont really know anything about response times and contrast and stuff like that
Anything out there that can do all of that haha?

I appreciate any help you guys can offer and sorry if I'm being troublesome

EDIT: 22-24" would be what Id have to go with to get those resolutions right?

On a 22" you could get 1080p downscaled, but I'm not sure which LCDs do this. If you want a 22" that does 1080p you're probably going to have to look on HardForum for the LCD in question, maybe with the keyword PS3 or Xbox.

Most 24"s show 1080p natively just fine. They also have much better support for consoles in general. Are any of the 24" non-TNs listed in the OP available in your area for that price? If not, you may have to raise your budget or start taking a look at the 22"s. All the 22"s that are an acceptable price are TNs except the Lenovo L220X, which I'm not sure could deal with consoles. Going with a 24" TN may be a better idea over a 22" TN, for what you want to do, due to better support for connections and scaling. I recommend the BenQ G2400W for a 24" TN.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: PBy
to xtknight,
just a thank you for your advice re how LCD monitors and video cards work with each other. The Eizo CE210W has now been withdrawn, so I am still looking although the NEC remains the favourite. One monitor that has recently appeared is the Samsung XL30, which has a LED backlight rather than CCFL, producing a much wider colour gamut. Has anyone any experience or thoughts about this?

I wouldn't bother with the XL series a whole ton since they use VA panels. I suppose they are an option but the viewing angle shift has been confirmed even on these expensive panels.

And do note that wide gamut monitors are good mainly for wide gamut photo editing. If you use sRGB, stick with sRGB models. If you do print work in an Adobe 1998 RGB (or higher) workflow as well then a wide gamut LCD can be suitable, and you can use an sRGB profile for the sRGB editing you need to do.

The LED backlights are actually quite a bit larger than the Adobe RGB 1998 space, even.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: z28dreams
OP,

I noticed that you had the Westinghouse L2410NM 24" listed as a "display du jour", but it is not included in your rankings.
Any reason?

It's a good deal, and more of an honorable mention. However I still think people should be looking at the rankings for 24"s if they can afford those ones. I will place it above the 24" TNs where I think it makes sense. Thanks for letting me know.

I'm looking for the following:
- 24" size
- primary uses will be text editing ( excel, programming, web design ) and watching movies
- inexpensive - looking to find something like $600-$700 on sale

Which would you recommend for me? My biggest gripes with most LCD monitors are black levels. Also, I'm not interested in a TN panel - only VA / IPS.

If you can, get the DoubleSight DS-263N: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824185007

Very high quality H-IPS panel. Just please keep in mind it's wide gamut, which means you'll want to use color profiles with browsers that support them. You will have to deal with multiple browsers probably since you're a web designer, but since the colors shouldn't vary per browser on standard configurations, you can just check how your pictures look in a color managed browser like FireFox 3 or Safari, and go by that. Make sure you know how to enable the profiles.

This monitor has nice black levels with its "polarization filter". VA panels may give a darker black but they won't reveal anywhere near the amount of details an IPS can in darker tones, due to VA panels' color/angle shifting. The IPSs' higher effective contrast in the darker range gives it a higher perceived contrast.

 

[Rhythmdvl]

Wow, I can?t tell you how much I appreciate this thread ? thanks! (I read probably the first ten pages until I realized that this was a 200+ page thread! I've also jsut read the past ten to fifteen pages, but please forgive me if this is repetative and my choice should already be obvious.)

I do editorial work out of a home office, so nice, clean text and long-term stare-at-ability is very important: think 8-12 hour days looking at the screen (mostly dense analytical texts for non-profits).

Since it?s a home office, I also like to shoot monsters on the same system. No movie-watching per se (save YouTube and the like), just the occasional running around with a crowbar or Gravity Gun. Though I only spend a fraction of my time with FPSs and the like, I?d really hate to downgrade the experience and have my happyfuntime turn into aggrivatedlylessthanhappyfuntime.

My wife (and business partner) does the graphic design end of the business, and she?s very happy with her 4-year old Apple 23? CinemaDisplay. Because she handles the graphics end of things, accuracy for photo editing or layout isn?t a priority on my machine (a WinBox).

I?m looking for a 24? display, as the few times I?ve done work on her Mac I?ve reallllly liked the ability to see two documents open at the same time (I?m on a 17? CRT right now, and it?s getting washed out).

I?m not sure I need any bells and whistles. I have a USB hub and external speakers, so that?s not a big deal. I?ll never hook anything but a computer to the monitor, so more than a DVI input is superfluous (unless in a few years graphics cards will evolve past that).

My budget is ~$700.

While I?ve built several machines from scratch via NewEgg and Mwave, I?m a bit leery of going with them?their monitor return policies give me a bit of pause. However, I?ve recently moved out of the city, and my brick ?n mortar options are limited (BestBuy, CircuitCity, Sears, Sams). Dell.com may be the way to go, but I can look at any online retailer with a strong customer service rep.


As I look online, I see:

Dell.com
Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP $600
Samsung SyncMaster 245T $680
NEC ASL CD24WMCX-BK $500

BestBuy
Hanspree HF-289HJB 27.5? $530

SamsClub
Dell Ultrasharp 2407FPW $720

Circuit City
Hyundai w24OD $550

I?m currently leaning toward either the Dell or the Samsung from Dell.com, but thought to put the thinking here to see what happens. Of course, any other retailer suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Oh, if it makes a difference, I have an Evga 7800 GTX grahics card, an AMD 64x2 4800+, and an Asus M2N4-SLI. In looking on EBay and elsewhere, I may be adding a second 7800.

Thanks!

Rhythm

 

[albovin]

Originally posted by: PBy
Sorry, I should have typed Samsung XL20. The XL30 is way out of my price range!!

From what I have known, Samsung XL20 (as well as other XLs) is far apart of any practical value.
It has older format (4:3), relatively small screen, combines *VA panel problems (colorshift, viewing angles) with LED BL problems (uneven color distribution, etc).
All that for the price of a large universal monitor.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Rhythmdvl2
Wow, I can?t tell you how much I appreciate this thread ? thanks! (I read probably the first ten pages until I realized that this was a 200+ page thread! I've also jsut read the past ten to fifteen pages, but please forgive me if this is repetative and my choice should already be obvious.)

I do editorial work out of a home office, so nice, clean text and long-term stare-at-ability is very important: think 8-12 hour days looking at the screen (mostly dense analytical texts for non-profits).

Since it?s a home office, I also like to shoot monsters on the same system. No movie-watching per se (save YouTube and the like), just the occasional running around with a crowbar or Gravity Gun. Though I only spend a fraction of my time with FPSs and the like, I?d really hate to downgrade the experience and have my happyfuntime turn into aggrivatedlylessthanhappyfuntime.

My wife (and business partner) does the graphic design end of the business, and she?s very happy with her 4-year old Apple 23? CinemaDisplay. Because she handles the graphics end of things, accuracy for photo editing or layout isn?t a priority on my machine (a WinBox).

I?m looking for a 24? display, as the few times I?ve done work on her Mac I?ve reallllly liked the ability to see two documents open at the same time (I?m on a 17? CRT right now, and it?s getting washed out).

I?m not sure I need any bells and whistles. I have a USB hub and external speakers, so that?s not a big deal. I?ll never hook anything but a computer to the monitor, so more than a DVI input is superfluous (unless in a few years graphics cards will evolve past that).

My budget is ~$700.

While I?ve built several machines from scratch via NewEgg and Mwave, I?m a bit leery of going with them?their monitor return policies give me a bit of pause. However, I?ve recently moved out of the city, and my brick ?n mortar options are limited (BestBuy, CircuitCity, Sears, Sams). Dell.com may be the way to go, but I can look at any online retailer with a strong customer service rep.


As I look online, I see:

Dell.com
Dell Ultrasharp 2408WFP $600
Samsung SyncMaster 245T $680
NEC ASL CD24WMCX-BK $500

BestBuy
Hanspree HF-289HJB 27.5? $530

SamsClub
Dell Ultrasharp 2407FPW $720

Circuit City
Hyundai w24OD $550

I?m currently leaning toward either the Dell or the Samsung from Dell.com, but thought to put the thinking here to see what happens. Of course, any other retailer suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

Oh, if it makes a difference, I have an Evga 7800 GTX grahics card, an AMD 64x2 4800+, and an Asus M2N4-SLI. In looking on EBay and elsewhere, I may be adding a second 7800.

Thanks!

Rhythm

I have to say that the Dell 2408WFP is the monitor that stuck in my mind as I read through your post. It seems like it would meet and exceed all your expectations just fine. Of course there is input lag on it, but most people are able to get used to this for gaming. If you only do it a little and not for serious bucks, then I don't think it'll be an impediment in your experience.

I don't see any reason to consider anything else right now, as Dell.com also has a better return policy than many other online retailers. Out of what they carry, the 2408WFP is a winner.

 

[ControlD]

Originally posted by: xtknight

The VW222u is what I'd recommend. The 1905 is a VA panel meaning you'd be taking a step down in viewing angles, but a step up in speed with the TNs.

Failing that, the Samsung 2253BW is my next choice, I guess. I believe the 2253BW is a panel lottery so you risk getting a panel with a dominance in blue.

Thanks xt. I ended up pulling the trigger on the LG L227WT after I realized my wife's laptop screen has a gloss finish and it never bothered me at all (obviously if I hadn't paid attention to it ..). Best Buy had it on sale for $289 last week, which seemed too good to pass up. Anyhow, the LG is fantastic.

Dave

 

[Rhythmdvl]

Thanks for your reply! If I may be so bold as to ask a follow-up...

I?ve just been told by the powers that be/accountant/business partner/wife that we can conceivably go up to a grand on this (e.g., the Planar PX2611W 26"). Would doing so put me into a different tier of display, or just garner a marginal improvement? I?m not keen to spend just because I can, but if there is a sharp difference, I?d like to consider it. (Kind of like moving from one model of car to another is an incremental improvement (more cupholders!) but going from, say, a Honda to an Accura is a sizable leap).

Again, thanks for your reply and the fantastic content of the thread. I think I mentioned most of my work is for non-profits?when the display arrives I?ll take on a pro bono project, kind of my own way of giving back to the community (albeit in a roundabout way).

 

[qz33]

xtknight Tthe beginning of this thread is just too good. Thnak you for so much help.

 

[pcsavvy]

xtknight, thank you for your advice. I decided to purchase the Dell 2408wfp, between my IRS refund and a payraise at work. I figured now would be a great time to get one. Watching movies on my computer should be a more cineramic experience.
Thank you for the LCD guide otherwise I would be lost with all the manufactor's claims of reliability.