[Retired] The LCD Thread

Page 195 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Tradewell

Junior Member
Jun 26, 2008
5
0
0
Billingsgate..

Are you using clear Type or just standard. Is it just the text or is the overall monitor sharper (2490 vs 2690) because of the larger pixels. Thanks.
 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,298
23
81
Originally posted by: Denithor
What do you guys think of the DoubleSight DS-245W for $520 shipped?

s-pva panel w/ 6ms response time
no hdmi (which pretty much sucks)

No opinions on this monitor? xtknight? anyone?
 

goten903

Junior Member
Jun 23, 2008
8
0
0
im going tonight to look at the hp 2408h compared to the fhd gateway 2400. really leaning towards one of those since i like the glossy screen.

Ill probly take a look at the lg 22 inch l227wtg-pf but was really leaning to one of the first 2 since i wanted a 24 inch.


any opinions would be great really. mostly use it for gaming
 

DukeFan21

Senior member
Jan 15, 2002
948
0
0
Anyone have any experience or things to say about a Samsung T220HD? I just got a PS3 and want to be able to take advantage of it's HD capabilities; my old 17" Dell and 20" Trinitron tube TV cannot do this (this is in my bedroom, mind you). My original intention was to simply replace my PC monitor with a 22 or 24" LCD with an HDMI input so I could connect my PS3 to it.

However, I came across the T220HD and was intrigued by the fact that it had a built in HDTV tuner and was just within my budget at $400. It also had 2 HDMI inputs, DVI, VGA, and component inputs along with other audio input and outputs. With this I could instead replace my TV and and hook my PS3 up to it. Frankly my PC gaming has dropped off and don't mind my current 17", so the idea of upgrading my TV seems more attractive to me.

I haven't been able to find many reviews on it, aside from the 8 user reviews on Newegg. Is this monitor essentially the same as the T220 with added inputs and a HDTV tuner? I haven't seen it in the stores around here so I can't get a look at it for myself.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: Denithor
What do you guys think of the DoubleSight DS-245W for $520 shipped?

s-pva panel w/ 6ms response time
no hdmi (which pretty much sucks)

I wish I knew more about it. It looks like this supersedes the TN DS-243N, but I don't know much about that either.

How are the 24" VA panels in the OP for you?
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: goten903
hi everyone. wow this is a long read with how big this topic is, my eyes hurt from my old 19inch lcd lol.

Okay was wondering if i could get a recomendation on a lcd.

not sure if i want to go 22 inch or 24 inch, my main concern is that the higher res will hurt performance in games. Not sure if i should even worry about that though since ill be using a new 280 gtx card?

I think you'll be fine. Check benchmarks to be sure.

i mainly use the pc to play games like dark age of camelot, age of conan, worlf of warcraft and soon to be warhammer, spend allot of time playing these. I also use it to surf the web and watch a movie here and there.

Been looking at the dell 2408 wfp and been wondering if that might be the right choice for me or if there is something else i should consider? also was wondering if the 2408wfp had any ghosting issues or pretty much a non issue.

I think the 2408WFP is fine ghosting-wise, although the 2407WFP-HC had some issues. The upcoming A01 revision however may further reduce the amount of input lag on the 2408WFP, which ended up being higher than the previous model.

I think the 2408WFP is a good idea. But, the G2400W would be a little faster if not as vibrant. I'd try the 2408WFP because of better viewing angles and higher contrast, but you may want to either wait until Rev A01 to see about input lag, or get a G2400W if you think slight lag would bother you (it doesn't bother many people).
 

goten903

Junior Member
Jun 23, 2008
8
0
0
okay thanks for the replay, i probly should have edited that since i had reposted and went to the store and found i really realy like the glossy panels....

thats why for me the hp 2408h, gateway fhd 2400 and the lg 227wtg are really in consideration. i noticed the secound 2 i have listed are in the gaming section, the lg being first on the list and the gateway last. the hp model doesnt really seem listed any place though, so not sure what to think of it
 

iamap

Junior Member
Jun 21, 2008
12
0
0
Originally posted by: xtknight
I don't go off of specifications, only reviews, so unfortunately I wouldn't be able to tell you the differences. In my mind there is not a single specification you can trust, except viewing angle, which indicates whether it is a TN, VA, or IPS panel (if you pay attention to what contrast ratio the viewing angle was measured at, 5:1 or 10:1). The brightness rating is usually reliable too, but that's about it.
I can only go by specs and reviews. It's not like I can try them all out either.


The HP LP2465 and ViewSonic VX2435wm are good VA panel choices.

And if you don't edit photos (sRGB) for a living, the Dell 2408 is probably the best choice due to the wide gamut backlight.
I don't do photo editing but, unfortunately, those are all 20-50% more expensive than the BenQ 24" or the KDS 26" that I was looking at and, again, I don't see much difference in the specs that can't be trusted anyway.

I thought I had decided on the BenQ 24" but now I'm looking at 4 monitors, instead of 2, and now I'm even more confused. What's the difference between DC 4000:1(1000:1) and 1000:1?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...2359%2CN82E16824116123

1) The BenQ 24 has the smallest pixel DPI but also the smallest brightness spec and free shipping. (not many reviews (5 total) on newegg but most are excellent)

2) The NEC 24 has the wider "advertised" viewing angles and is brighter but it has midrange refresh rates and it has a larger pixel DPI than the other 24" panel. (Many reviews say it's a tn with poor viewing angles but mostly excellent reviews (51 total) on newegg)

3) The KDS 26 has midrange brightness, slightly better H-viewing angles but lower refresh rates. (A few complaints about back lighting issues but many excellent reviews (28 total) too)

4) The ViewSonic 26 is bright but more expensive and it has midrange refresh rates than the rest but I can only assume it uses a larger pixel DPI like the other 26" monitors. (Not many (5 total) but fair to good reviews on newegg)

The 26" monitors are tempting due to their size vs cost compared to the 24's but I'm completely confused now. I'm glad I didn't order yet.

EDIT:
After re-reading the OP it seems refresh rates aren't that important and aging eyes might like the larger DPI so now I'm leaning towards the KDS 26" and the NEC 24" (in that order) due to the number of positive reviews and comparable specs.

2nd Edit:
After doing more searching I found a KDS review at hardforum and another forum and it's looking better and better. I was considering the Samsung 2493hm until I read that it doesn't scale to 16:9 well (the BenQ G2400WD does) and I don't think the KDS has that problem. Does anyone know of scaling issues with the NEC ASLCD24WMCX-BK, ViewSonic VX2640w or the HP w2408h? If it's just down to the BenQ24 and the KDS26, I'll most likely go for the KDS.


 

leftheaded

Junior Member
Dec 7, 2007
10
0
0
Originally posted by: albovin
Originally posted by: leftheaded
i just came across a deal for the dell 3008WFP for $1500, but honestly, the only thing holding me back from it is because i don't see it on the first post here! LOL I was wanting the LCD3090, but not for more than $1600. so, here i am. should i just get the dell?

edit - i'll be using it for photo/video editing, internet browsing & general office work, some high res gaming, & watching HDTV via satellite (in that order)

My guess why the Dell 3008 is not recommended:
1. It's obviously overpriced. About $1500-1600 would be fair for it for the time being.
2. At least HDMI and component inputs don't support video properly (overscan, cropping) - confirmed. Other analog inputs most probably do the same. Two DVI must be workable, though.
3. Unprecedented history of defective units return, months of delay of ordered product.
4. High input lag by design.

hmmm... i'll have to check for HDMI overscanning after it arrives i don't care about analog inputs.

what's this about "high input lag by design"???
 

billingsgate

Junior Member
May 15, 2008
6
0
0
Originally posted by: Tradewell
Billingsgate..

Are you using clear Type or just standard. Is it just the text or is the overall monitor sharper (2490 vs 2690) because of the larger pixels. Thanks.

I don't know what they were using in the NEC office when I saw the demo, but I am guessing it was standard type. I checked out western and Chinese fonts (I'm in Hong Kong), and I found them both to be slightly more comfortable to read on the 24-inch monitor. This may also be partly due to the fact that I tend to sit fairly close to the monitor.

As for clarity of photos and graphics, they looked a bit different on the 2490 and 2690, but this is likely due to different color calibrations (both demo models had been previously loaned out to tech journalists for reviews), and obviously they are different panels with different color ranges. Neither was "better" or "worse". Both looked great, and there was no noticeable difference in sharpness when viewing graphics and photos, only when viewing text.

I don't use Clear Type on my computer, and I have found the 2490 to be quite comfortable to read from. I can't really comment any more than that, except to reiterate that the NEC guy himself recommended that the 2490 is actually easier on the eyes than the 2690.

24 inches wide screen is plenty big enough for me to do detailed animation art. It fills most of my field of vision. Bigger wouldn't necessarily be better. It might even force me to sit further away, in which case there would be no point in having bigger. Take that into account.

You sound as confused as I was! I'm still confused about LCDs. But you just need to take the plunge and figure no one monitor is perfect and be happy with it.

 

Lightning983

Member
Jun 27, 2008
72
0
0
Okay, i've posted a couple questions on a couple of other forums, but the best answer i get is that i should never buy a 24" TN monitor

Which is exactly what i want to do

So out of these what do you this is the best one?

Dell E248WFP
Samsung SM 245B
BENQ G2400W

Or from the next price range:

Dell 2407WFP-HC
Dell 2408WF
HP LP2465
ViewSonic VX2435wm
BENQ FP 241WZ


The use of the screen will mostly be gaming/watching movies... and occasional CAD/CAM work. I'll probably be the sole user, so viewing angles aren't really that important to me (also from what i see, a friend has a 22" Samsung TN, and i don't mind the viewing angles at all)
 

thestain

Senior member
May 5, 2006
393
0
0
xtknight,

In regards to my original post and your reply:

Originally posted by: thestain

Hi xtknight,

I bought a couple NEC Multisync 20WMGX2's a while back and on my dad's I get this video input blue box that pops up and stays on for a while unless you wait long enough or hit the menu key on the remote. This occurs if you log off and want to log back on and the box actually blocks the log in area.. and it just doesn't like to go away.. it is very annoying.

I know you have owned the monitor. Did you ever have this problem? Any idea on how to get this blue 2 3/4 inches wide by 1 1/4 inch high video input box from displaying in the just below center middle part of the Monitor or to at least make it go away faster???


I have this problem with unsupported resolutions or modes. I would point at the problem being your video card or driver, first.

I did not notice any way to get around it, but many monitors also limit menu options in unsupported modes, or show an annoying message, etc. I'm not really sure why.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I forgot to mention that this is not the resolution notifier, but simply one that tells you what you are looking at.. video input then 1 PC-1 or 2 PC-2 with drawing of dvi-d for example or if you turn to tv, then it tells you the channel you are on and that you are watching tv, like 3 TV CH 3.

I have tried swapping out cards and updating drivers, but nothing has helped.

 

uberdork

Member
Aug 19, 2003
66
0
0
Originally posted by: goten903
was wondering if anyone could comment on the dell 2408wfp compared to the double sight ds-263n ?

I just sent my 2408WFP back and it's been replaced by the DS 263N. IMO the DS is much better. The panel makes the difference. With the 2408 I had issues with left side brightness (a flaw of PVA/MVA technology I'm told), text sharpness and poor colors. I didn't have a way to calibrate the monitor and it was making me insane after about 5 days of messing with settings in the OSD.

The DS 263N (good luck finding one now, the 265W should be available in a month though) was up and running with a satisfactory image in about 15 min. I've not messed with it since the initial set up and even though mine didn't come with a polarizer (some people were lucky enough to get one with it) I'm pretty happy with it.

Considering how long you stare at that screen it's worth the extra couple hundred dollars for the DS over the Dell IMO.


EDIT: I noticed the posted response to your other question up above. I should let you know that I use mine pretty much the same way you're using it. Games and the occasional video. Mainly playing WoW, LoTRO, and TF2 with it atm. Both the 2408 and 263N came with zero dead pixels and neither had any ghosting. The image from the DS was just superior IMO due to the IPS panel.
 

goten903

Junior Member
Jun 23, 2008
8
0
0
just wanted to say thank you and after lots of reading and advice, i choose the l227wtg, i had a little tough time deciding on it since it was a 22 inch vs 24. But it had what i wanted, glossy screen, amasing response times and when i went and looked at the store its just an amasing unit.

thanks everyone
 

iamap

Junior Member
Jun 21, 2008
12
0
0
Blix at hardforums tested 16:9 scaling and the KDS 26" has 0% overscan. That's the one it looks like I'm ordering.
 

Tradewell

Junior Member
Jun 26, 2008
5
0
0
Thanks. I ordered both the 26 and the 2490 and will check them out and send one back. This forum has been helpful thanks again.
 

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
81
26
91
I really wanted to know if my monitor had a problem or not, so I brought my xbox (easier than PC) to Best Buy and tried it on the Samsung 2493 and Gateway FHD2400. I must say the BenQ V2400W is by far the sharpest picture, but the Gateway had a setting called Saturation, and the Samsung had a setting called Color, and they both actually worked and were not greyed out of the menu! Anyways, I do not believe that any TN monitor will have vibrant colors like on my PVA panel or Sony HDTV. I liked the Gateway's glossy look and complete control of the color saturation, hue, etc., but it had horrible vertical viewing angle problems. So, I guess no TN is going to be perfect for games, BenQ COULD have done it by allowing the user to control the color saturation like Gateway does, but with a far sharper panel. I guess I'll have to hope the future will bring a PVA or IPS panel that is not 2-3 frames behind reality with a 47ms response+lag time (when they advertise it as 6ms, yeah right). Well, I guess as of the present time, you can't have your cake and eat it too with 24" HDMI,DVI monitors. It is a tough choice between fast and dingy or slow and beautifully colored. When shelling out $500, we shouldn't have to compromise (or eat magic mushrooms to make the colors come out), there should just be a color control like on a 50 year old t.v. Why can't any company get it right? I have heard rumors about a Doublesight 24" panel that is a PVA or IPS, does HDMI and DVI, and has been claimed to have low lag, but when I looked at some test sites it showed about a 38ms response/lag, which is what I would have expected. I would return this if I though something better was coming out soon, but I don't think anything will. People playing their XBOX's and PS3s on their new Sony or Samsung 1080p beautiful screens with the "Game" function on and the false 6ms advertising have no clue that they are in reality 3 frames behind me and that puts 3 bullets in them. That is why I don't multiplayer game on my PVS panel or HDTV. I was hoping BenQ would solve all my problems, so close; what I would do for just a color or saturation setting on this thing...
 

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
81
26
91
Wait, you can change color settings in the standard mode only, and set to user 100,100,100 it helps brighten things up a little.
 

iamap

Junior Member
Jun 21, 2008
12
0
0
Originally posted by: albovin
Originally posted by: iamap
Blix at hardforums tested 16:9 scaling and the KDS 26" has 0% overscan. That's the one it looks like I'm ordering.

Please, look again.
They are confused with what they are doing.

I noticed, that's why I edited my post there and I'm waiting for a retest at 1:1. Good thing I didn't order yet.
 

goten903

Junior Member
Jun 23, 2008
8
0
0
well after using the lg 227wtg for a bit i have one complaint about it, the stands not good at all imo, made of such thin plastic that the monitor shakes. think im gonna go take a look at the hp glossy model today.
 

slayer305

Junior Member
Jun 28, 2008
1
0
0
This is a kinda ghetto input lag test I did for my Samsung 275T.

Tested against my LG L204WT, a TN panel with about zero input lag.

Used my webcam to take the shots laugh but it still gave recognisable results mainly because one monitor is so much slower than the other.

Results are below, L204WT is on the left and 275T is on the right:

http://img518.imageshack.us/im.../8864/picture80bz8.jpg

http://img515.imageshack.us/im.../1917/picture81dh4.jpg

http://img179.imageshack.us/im.../3232/picture86tu1.jpg

http://img238.imageshack.us/im.../8785/picture84hs2.jpg


So the 275T has roughly 50 ms or 3 frames of input lag.


Additionally, when I used the display's built-in scaler instead of the graphics card scaler, input lag jumped to 70 ms or 4 frames.

There's of course an error of +/- 10ms due to the camera but isn't much compared to the 50 and 70 ms delay measured between the two monitors.
 

hotstocks

Member
Jun 20, 2008
81
26
91
Yes, I am going to keep it. The BenQ store will open Monday, they are moving this weekend.
The V2400W has pro's and con's, but I believe it is the best 24" Multimedia Monitor out as of now. It is a problem that all the bright well colored displays that are best for movies and games are NOT TN panels. You don't see Sony or Samsung making their HDTVs out of TN panels since the viewing angles are poor, there is colorshift, and the colors are just not as bright (or as many, so you see lines in gradiation of colors). But since gaming is a secondary priority on a HDTV, the slower more beautifull PVA, MVA, and IPS screens will be used. Until the figure out how to get those panels quicker, there will always be a 2-3 frame lag, despite their advertising of 6 or 8 ms. Now comparing the V2400W to all other 24" TN monitors I have seen, I must say it has the least color shift and best viewing angles. I prefer the glossy look of the Gateway, but it has HORRENDOUS vertical viewing angle problems. The V2400W is also the sharpest text and works great over DVI on the PC with the RGB setting. The screen has accurate colors and doesn't burn your eyes out. Now the problem comes in when you actually want to use a TN monitor for games and to some extent movies. They are all too dark color wise, and if you turn up the brightness/contrast to the max, you just wash out the colors. I have found that using the four different settings and switching between them is mandatory. As I have said, RGB mode works best for the desktop. Dynamic mode (which is supposed to be bright and colorfull for games, isn't) can be tweaked with a little extra brightness/contrast to be usable in some games and movies. Movie and Photo modes are ok for some t.v./movie watching, yet sometimes are too dark/dull, I don't use them much. The big discovery was that STANDARD mode is the only mode that you can actually go in and change the color saturation! So I set it to USER Mode and brightness 100, contrast 80, sharpness 1, red 94, green 90, and blue 88. This works pretty good for the XBOX 360 and PC games, I would still like more color and brightness (neon look) in games like on a CRT, but it is what it is. Your desktop will look all bright and bleached out, so make sure to go back to RGB mode for computer use. Most games now look pretty good, but dark games are still a huge problem. This is the only con I have found for the monitor. Forget about seeing anything in dark games like Doom 3, Prey, etc. Live with the fact that glowing swords and neon signs in games like Devil May Cry and Ninja Gaiden will just not look as good as with a CRT or good 1080p LCD HDTV. I love the response time and see no ghosting or lag. I have tried the 2ms AMA feature and can't see any difference at all, so I leave it off, because it does make a little weird ghosting when you move windows around. I also leave the dynamic contrast off, as it is totally useless once you have your STANDARD and DYNAMIC modes set the way you like them. The thin panel of the V2400W doesn't really matter to me since I don't look at the back of my monitor, and I don't like the fact that there is about a 5 degree tilt to the right on my panel. I think it was dumb to make the monitor stand not "standard" so that you can tilt it. I am hoping that the way the stand is too the right, in due time gravity and weight will lower the left side 5 degrees so I have an even panel height. BenQ, put the damn stand in the middle! So, If it is true that the G2400WD is the same exact panel in a more standard casing, for less money, I would get that one. But I always think newer is better and bought the V2400W just in case. All that being said, I have a perfect panel with no dead or stuck pixels or blemishes, so I am keeping it...........Until something better comes along. Now back to Halo 3.
 

ModemManCJ

Junior Member
Jun 29, 2008
6
0
0
So after reading a couple review sites and asking a couple friends, I felt completely lost in the search for a new display. I must admit though, this thread is pretty impressive and informative. I thought I might just read other people's questions and do my research that way (the lurker's way, hehe), but no, I'm going to formally ask for an opinion. Any help would be much appreciated.

So I'm looking at upgrading my display. I'm currently using an HP f1703 17" that came with an old family desktop and would like something bigger. I'm split between getting either a 22" or 24" display. One of my friends told me to avoid the 22" models because of the larger pixels. Is this really a big deal? I haven't seen larger pixels and smaller pixels juxtaposed before.

I'm not too nit-picky on all of the technical aspects, to be honest. I primarily use my computer to surf the web, play games, listen to music, and occasionally watch films, so I suppose I fall into the "multimedia" category. I must admit, I'm attracted to the very pretty glossy screens. Other frills, like multiple input options, USB ports, et cetera, are not important; I need a DVI input at minimum. I'm looking to spend around $500 at most. Like anyone would, I want the most bang for my buck, but I don't want to sacrifice too much quality; for instance, a decent stand is important to me.

I hope I've been specific enough so that the more knowledgeable members here can make some helpful suggestions. Let me know if you need any additional information. Thanks much!

- ModemManCJ
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |