[Retired] The LCD Thread

[FlasHBurN]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: FlasHBurN
I am looking to replace my NEC FP2141SB 22" CRT since it has been acting kind of flakey when it turns on plus I would like to go for a bigger widescreen setup. What is the best 24" LCD that I can buy for under $500? I need something with zero lag or ghosting issues and it needs to be exceptional at both displaying text and for playing games, since the majority I use my system for is web surfing and game playing. Should I just stop at the HP 2408H or is there better to be had in my price range?

edit: I was reading a review saying that as far as black levels go the best it does is a dull grey, that sounds really bad to me. Is it that bad? Any other TN monitors that handle blacks better?

'Dark gray' is a really poor and misguided generalization of LCD black levels. A better analogy would be to compare a pitch black puddle of paint on the floor, against a black jacket. Obviously, the LCD is more like the jacket.

The level of black, as your eyes perceive it, also depends on the brightness surrounding it. (Still, most Trinitron/Diamondtron CRTs achieve higher contrast.)

Trinitrons may reach around 10,000:1, where a good VA LCD will do over 1,500:1. This figure may increase when LED backlights come, as localized dimming (dimming part of the screen) will be available once there is a huge array of LEDs to adjust in the back.

It doesn't sound like you want a VA panel (you want zero lag). So, you might indeed want to look towards glossy panels that deliver a high perceived contrast, like the HP w2408h. The FHD2400 is also decent, although I hear that it is not very good at reproducing darker tones. I may replace the FHD2400 with the w2408h; I will have to read up on that more. In the immediate sense, the FHD2400 looks better because of all the connectivity available, but that appears not to be part of your criteria.

PRAD has a comprehensive review of the w2408h here: http://prad.de/en/monitore/rev.../review-hp-w2408h.html

It doesn't use overdrive (native 5 ms black/white transition panel) so you have less likelihood of getting input lag.

You will get the best perceived black by using a glossy panel. This is widely known to be the easiest route upon which to embark when moving from a Trinitron/DiamondTron. If you have the ambition to find a used/refurb (or somehow new) glossy NEC 20WMGX2 that's the best choice (AS-IPS panel).

Make sure there are no stores around you that have on display the glossy panels so that you could just check them out right there. This is actually quite common at Best Buy and Circuit City.

Thanks for the response! Connectivity wise I don't really mind not having anything other than a single HDMI/DVI connection so thats a non issue. I also don't mind going to a glossy display since I am using a CRT now. I did look and saw that the w2408h is available at a local Best Buy, so I will definitely have to stop by and check it out in person.

When are these LED backlit LCD's supposed to be arriving? I might be able to hold off if it is less than a year away.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FlasHBurN
Thanks for the response! Connectivity wise I don't really mind not having anything other than a single HDMI/DVI connection so thats a non issue. I also don't mind going to a glossy display since I am using a CRT now. I did look and saw that the w2408h is available at a local Best Buy, so I will definitely have to stop by and check it out in person.

When are these LED backlit LCD's supposed to be arriving? I might be able to hold off if it is less than a year away.

I saw a Samsung LED-backlit LCD TV on display at Best Buy the other day, with local dimming.

But, it will be far more common on DLP and LCD TVs. It comes in monitors only at a big price (cheapest is $2k for the Samsung XL20). And Samsung's XL series aren't even IPS panels, they are VA.

Suffice to say, that's probably out of your budget. Focus on the present. The w2408h is a good LCD today.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FlasHBurN
Thanks for the response! Connectivity wise I don't really mind not having anything other than a single HDMI/DVI connection so thats a non issue. I also don't mind going to a glossy display since I am using a CRT now. I did look and saw that the w2408h is available at a local Best Buy, so I will definitely have to stop by and check it out in person.

When are these LED backlit LCD's supposed to be arriving? I might be able to hold off if it is less than a year away.

I saw a Samsung LED-backlit LCD TV on display at Best Buy the other day, with local dimming.

But, it will be far more common on DLP and LCD TVs. It comes in monitors only at a big price (cheapest is $2k for the Samsung XL20). And Samsung's XL series aren't even IPS panels, they are VA. It is anyone's guess when they will be cheaper. Probably more than a year.

Suffice to say, that's probably out of your budget. Focus on the present. The w2408h is a good LCD today.

 

[Crittias]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Try the ASUS VW222u.

One really quick question on this monitor: does anyone know if it has a glossy screen or an anti-glare screen? My wife has a strong preference for non-glossy.

Thanks in advance!

 

[FlasHBurN]

How does the w2408h compare to the KDS K-2626MDHWB 26" LCD monitor? MWave has it on sale right now for $399.

Also, what about the Soyo DYLM24D6?

edit: I checked out the w2408h at Best Buy and I wasn't completely thrilled by the black levels. Is this another monitor around the same price that has better black levels?

 

[guptasa1]

Hey all,

So I'm finally ready to pull the plug and order a new system last night, and I found out the monitor I'm banking on the Doublesight DS263-N, is being discontinued for a new model. Now, the 263-N is still available a few places like Newegg, but A) I don't really fancy getting a discontinued model, and B) All of the places that still have it that I can find don't offer a 0-dead-pixel policy, and I'm not very comfortable with that.

Are there any good alternatives out there? From what I'm understanding, the answer to that is no. =o/ I hate to wait on the DS265-W (supposedly the same panel, but with new connector options, and I've heard rumors of rotation and such as well, though I dunno for sure) if it's going to be another month off yet (Doublesight told me 5 weeks or so on the phone), but is it my best option? (I game, use it for work, would like great colors, etc...really favor an IPS over something like TN).

Thanks.

 

[ModemManCJ]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ModemManCJ
So after reading a couple review sites and asking a couple friends, I felt completely lost in the search for a new display. I must admit though, this thread is pretty impressive and informative. I thought I might just read other people's questions and do my research that way (the lurker's way, hehe), but no, I'm going to formally ask for an opinion. Any help would be much appreciated.

So I'm looking at upgrading my display. I'm currently using an HP f1703 17" that came with an old family desktop and would like something bigger. I'm split between getting either a 22" or 24" display. One of my friends told me to avoid the 22" models because of the larger pixels. Is this really a big deal? I haven't seen larger pixels and smaller pixels juxtaposed before.

I don't think that 22" pixels are particularly "large". It's probably not something to be "concerned" about but 22"s will have text/images that appear larger in the same resolution.

I'm not too nit-picky on all of the technical aspects, to be honest. I primarily use my computer to surf the web, play games, listen to music, and occasionally watch films, so I suppose I fall into the "multimedia" category. I must admit, I'm attracted to the very pretty glossy screens. Other frills, like multiple input options, USB ports, et cetera, are not important; I need a DVI input at minimum. I'm looking to spend around $500 at most. Like anyone would, I want the most bang for my buck, but I don't want to sacrifice too much quality; for instance, a decent stand is important to me.

I hope I've been specific enough so that the more knowledgeable members here can make some helpful suggestions. Let me know if you need any additional information. Thanks much!

- ModemManCJ

The BenQ G2400W would probably be good for you. It is not extremely expensive but it's a good panel for gaming and the rest of what you'll be doing (mostly general use).

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...16824014158&Tpk=g2400w

I think the stand on the G2400W is better than on other BenQ models. See what you think.

I haven't seen reviews of the DS-245W but it is here for $500 (out of stock): http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824185005

The LP2465 goes for $520 after rebate: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824176059

The main advantage of the other panels (other than G2400W) is that they use an S-PVA panel, which may deliver higher contrast. It will have slightly better viewing angles but it won't be quite as fast for gaming. It's up to you whether it's worth it, but you are probably more concerned with the ergonomics. They both have a decent amount of adjustments as well.

If you like glossy panels then the Gateway FHD2400 might be the best deal for you.

I don't think the glossy Acer P243 is too bad, although I'm more confident recommending the FHD2400.

The FHD2400 may have more backlight bleeding than the G2400W, which means slightly lighter corners when viewing a dark image and not as good at rendering dark images. However the glossy panel will give the illusion of higher contrast and vibrance, as will the backlight which is wider gamut than the G2400W's NTSC-grade.

Thanks so much for your quick reply! I've decided to take the plunge on the Acer P243WAid (couldn't resist the glossy). It had such an attractive price compared to the Gateway, I couldn't pass it up. The stand seems to be an issue with it for some people, but I figure I can buy a new stand for it if it's truly deal-breaking. I'll keep you posted on how it works out. Thanks again!

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Crittias

Originally posted by: xtknight
Try the ASUS VW222u.

One really quick question on this monitor: does anyone know if it has a glossy screen or an anti-glare screen? My wife has a strong preference for non-glossy.

Thanks in advance!

The VW222u has a non-glossy panel (the L227WT is the primary glossy that I recommend).

 

[HotdogStorm]

This is a really dense thread, thanks to anybody who contributed so much that people on other forums just point you here for questions.

I'm interested in getting an LCD to replace my old 19" CRT. It still runs fine and I love it, but it's big and bulky and I'm moving and would rather get something light and new if the specs are good for the price. I've read just about everything I could and have experience with LCDs at work and friends'/family's houses so I know what I'm getting into. I have certain criteria that just don't seem to be met by anything, and was hoping somebody had advice.

First off I can't stand TN panels. The color shift is really bad since I don't sit still and am hardly ever looking on center especially vertically, the dithering on some models I've seen is atrocious, and the image quality is borderline. The only attraction they have for me is CRT-like response, but it's not worth going insane from the gradients and swirling. All the ones I've seen though are older, and maybe this has gotten somewhat better - any models that stores carry I can check out in person that are representative of quality?

VA panels we have at work are good but I've never tried gaming on one and all the talk of input lag and frame delays has me thinking this is a horrible idea. Obviously I'm accustomed to CRTs with no lag, and I play some very twitchy games (FPS, STG, Puzzle, Beat) where split second timing is crucial, so this would be a deal breaker.

IPS panels look perfect because they have great image quality, wide viewing angles in all directions, and low delays, but they're expensive. They don't seem to exist in smaller sizes outside of LaCie's production monitors, and I'd almost rather get a proper TV with DVI than pay over $800 for a 24" monitor.

Should I just keep my CRT until it explodes in a few years? This entire industry seems hopeless.

 

[Gunuku]

Aside from price, are there any differences between the DoubleSight DS-263N and PLANAR PX2611W Black 26 ?

 

[Chronoshock]

Originally posted by: Gunuku
Aside from price, are there any differences between the DoubleSight DS-263N and PLANAR PX2611W Black 26 ?

The DS has a A-TW polarizer (I've heard only some do, I'm not entirely sure), different stand, is roughly 200 dollars cheaper, blue instead of green power LED, and warranty/customer service might be slightly worse than Planar.
The DS-263N is also discontinued I believe in place of the upcoming DS-263W. It should come out in a few weeks, until then the remaining stock is disappearing fast.
hardforums have two very large threads on each monitor if you're looking for photos, color/uniformity measurements, reviews, etc.

I was looking for a new monitor this week, and ended up getting the px2611w as the ds 263n is nowhere to be found. I also got 35% off the planar. I'll post my impressions here when it arrives

 

[Teslacoiled]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Viewing distance in itself will not affect the viewing angle. If you are not moving that much on the horizontal plane I don't think you will have trouble. In short, don't worry about it, and enjoy the G2400W.

I didn't quite get the gist of whether you actually pulled the trigger on the G2400W yet or not, but if VA panels are not much more expensive in your area you could consider those.

Isn't the viewing angle the same as "angle of view"? The closer you are to the monitor, the bigger the angle becomes. Are we talking about the same thing here?

I decided to buy the G2400W because I need a 24'' and it was recommended by you, 10e, and I rarely saw bad reviews of it. I just wanted to know about the viewing angle. They cost $550 here, and I found it for $450 at one store. But because I'm a little paranoid, I think to myself "why would they sell it for a $100 less?! Maybe they have a faulty unit, or maybe dead pixels...". Tomorrow I'll call and ask them if I can test the monitor before buying it.

The VAs are too expensive for me, and besides, I already have the still excellent CRT, F520, hooked to another PC, like I stated before. So I just need the high resolution and a monitor that is suitable for my kind of work (sometimes more than 12 hours a day).

Thanks for replying!

 

[yinlun]

Phew..just finished the thread. There's a TON of info in there. Thank you.

But it's all somewhat gibberish to me..as I'm a simpleton.

My situation is that I currently have a 19" Hyundai L90D+ And of course, I don't know a thing about, but it's not widescreen. I bought it when my roommate found a sale and told me it was a good monitor.

I would like to pick up a second monitor to hook up to my computer, this way I can play games on one and have a movie playing on the other (mostly WoW and netflix) If I don't need any fancy webcams, speakers, usb ports. Just another monitor that does a the job my Hyundai does now and value oriented. It could be another 19" non wide screen, or a 22" Widescreen (I think that's the closest height right? The difference sitting on the desk would bug me) What would you recommend?

 

[leglez]

What category should I look at for video editing? I was thinking maybe office work or multimedia, but I am not sure. I use mac's, but there is no way I am going to throw money on the ground for a apple cinema LCD so I am looking for a good LCD for video editing.

 

[thestain]

XTKnight,

Good news to report.. I finally got video input box to go away.. in the end after i toggled between it being set for ten seconds from default to twenty and back it must have unstuck something and now it clears within seconds or does not show up at all..

Thanks again!

 

[Denithor]

Dell 2709W

Anyone seen this yet? Other than size, any obvious differences from the 2408wfp? Look like a good monitor or what?

 

[frythecpuofbender]

My 10 month old LG L226WA just bit the dust. The color had been slightly off in the upper right corner since the beginning, then it got darker in the upper half, like some backlight went out and a black spot started to swell in the upper right corner. I noticed an increase in temperature in the upper right corner of the screen and after a restart, the monitor doesn't display a picture anymore. (only LG logo)
I'm really pissed off now. I treated that monitor very, very good and still after 10 (!) months it went dark.

I'm now going through their swap program, hoping to get a good one, but I have to look for alternatives now.

I'm a lot into video editing, compositing (color!), 3d modeling and of course gaming. I know I probably should get a something like a 1300$ EIZO HD2441W, but that is a bit much for my strained purse.

Anyone have recommendations for a good 22'' or 24''?

Is the Samsung syncmaster 245B+ any good? I know it's a TN...

 

[yinlun]

I just put in an order for the
ASUS PG221 Black-Silver 22" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor w/1.3M Pixel Webcam

Normally goes for about $600 which is way out of my range, but it was $325 all said and done. It's even cheaper if you live in an area that doesn't have to pay tax to NewEgg.com

Otherwise..
$409.99 Mwave.com
$100 Asus Rebate
2% Fatwallet Cashback

Still on the pricier side of the 22" screens, but I didn't see a negative review on this thing. Hopefully it's nice.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FlasHBurN
How does the w2408h compare to the KDS K-2626MDHWB 26" LCD monitor? MWave has it on sale right now for $399.

Also, what about the Soyo DYLM24D6?

edit: I checked out the w2408h at Best Buy and I wasn't completely thrilled by the black levels. Is this another monitor around the same price that has better black levels?

Well the HP is glossy, I don't believe the KDS is. They are both TN panels. Other than that, there's not much more I can tell you.

Unfortunately there is not a monitor around with better black levels than a glossy TN (except for a glossy VA, but I haven't seen those in awhile).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: guptasa1
Hey all,

So I'm finally ready to pull the plug and order a new system last night, and I found out the monitor I'm banking on the Doublesight DS263-N, is being discontinued for a new model. Now, the 263-N is still available a few places like Newegg, but A) I don't really fancy getting a discontinued model, and B) All of the places that still have it that I can find don't offer a 0-dead-pixel policy, and I'm not very comfortable with that.

Are there any good alternatives out there? From what I'm understanding, the answer to that is no. =o/ I hate to wait on the DS265-W (supposedly the same panel, but with new connector options, and I've heard rumors of rotation and such as well, though I dunno for sure) if it's going to be another month off yet (Doublesight told me 5 weeks or so on the phone), but is it my best option? (I game, use it for work, would like great colors, etc...really favor an IPS over something like TN).

Thanks.

The PX2611W is a sufficient alternative to the DoubleSight. It just doesn't have the A-TW polarizer.

 

[Candymancan]

Hey guys quick question. Iv been trying to ask this for 3 days on this and another forums but it seems no one knows anything and wont post to help me.

My 19 inch viewsonic LCD the vx922 broke, aparently its the major defect they all have and since there discontinued models why i dont know there only 2 or 3 years old regardless. Im still under warrenty and i already sent it in for RMA replacement.

I found out that since its discontinued i wont be reciving another one which is good i dont like that monitor anyway the pixel pitch was way to big i could see the gaps and the pixels on the monitor. Im not sure what im going to get in return but they said its going to be a better or equal monitor.

The only 19 inch models they have for the VX series is the VX1932WM, the VX1940W, and the VX1962WM.

Iv checked the specs and background for them all and i told them littery begged to put in the notes that i do not want the vx1932wm, i read it has issues with the 1440x900 resolution with movies and games ect i also heared it really defective and rumors thats its gonna be discontinued soon.

The one thats seems good is the VX1940W its been about for a year now and it has a low Response time they advertise 2ms but i know better. Regardless the contrast it suppose to be 1000:1 and 3000:1 with dynamtic contrast on. It also runs at 1680x1050 and since its a 19 inch with that resolution the pixel pitch and number of pixels is far superior to a 20-21-22 inch model making the picture much better like a really good CRT.

The other the VX1962WM came out this year in Feb i belive i dont see the diff between it and the one above cept the contrast is much higher, and it has built in "hidden speakers". I dont care about speakers but since there hidden that doesnt bother me i usually hate monitor's with speakers it makes them look ugly.

I havent found any real reviews on this model nor any issues people might be having with the vx1940 and the vx1962. So can someone help me please and tell me what i might be expecting here ?

Iv called viewsonic everyday for 4 days now telling each rep i do not want that vx1932, ill take either one of the other 2. Altho im pretty sure since my monitor was the top of the line back then i will probly recive the vx1962WM which is what i asked them to write down in the RMA notes. The guy said its like 90% positive that i will get that because they have a warehouse full of them

 

[iamap]

Originally posted by: Candymancan
Iv been trying to ask this for 3 days on this and another forums but it seems no one knows anything and wont post to help me.

I know nothing about those monitors (too small for me) but it's not that I don't want to help people. I can't speak for others though.

Frankly, I'm not even sure what your question is, what should you be expecting? According to your post, you should be expecting the VX1962WM since the support tech said 90%.

Good luck...

 

[Candymancan]

What would i be expecting out of the monitor. Im trying to find someone who has actually used it so i can get an idea if there crap or not

 

[iamap]

I wouldn't know if they're good or not.

Good luck...

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: HotdogStorm
This is a really dense thread, thanks to anybody who contributed so much that people on other forums just point you here for questions.

I'm interested in getting an LCD to replace my old 19" CRT. It still runs fine and I love it, but it's big and bulky and I'm moving and would rather get something light and new if the specs are good for the price. I've read just about everything I could and have experience with LCDs at work and friends'/family's houses so I know what I'm getting into. I have certain criteria that just don't seem to be met by anything, and was hoping somebody had advice.

First off I can't stand TN panels. The color shift is really bad since I don't sit still and am hardly ever looking on center especially vertically, the dithering on some models I've seen is atrocious, and the image quality is borderline. The only attraction they have for me is CRT-like response, but it's not worth going insane from the gradients and swirling. All the ones I've seen though are older, and maybe this has gotten somewhat better - any models that stores carry I can check out in person that are representative of quality?

VA panels we have at work are good but I've never tried gaming on one and all the talk of input lag and frame delays has me thinking this is a horrible idea. Obviously I'm accustomed to CRTs with no lag, and I play some very twitchy games (FPS, STG, Puzzle, Beat) where split second timing is crucial, so this would be a deal breaker.

IPS panels look perfect because they have great image quality, wide viewing angles in all directions, and low delays, but they're expensive. They don't seem to exist in smaller sizes outside of LaCie's production monitors, and I'd almost rather get a proper TV with DVI than pay over $800 for a 24" monitor.

Should I just keep my CRT until it explodes in a few years? This entire industry seems hopeless.

Going in you must realize you have to make sacrifices, either your wallet or the screen quality.

The HP LP2065(mostly S-IPS, some VA) is a pretty good choice for many. I don't know if that's big enough for you though. I think a lot of people could use TNs if they wanted; they're not that bad. If not you've got to be ready to pile down $$ or deal with shortcomings of VA panels, which are a good compromise. I don't really recommend the $800-on-an-IPS route for most people. Admittedly it's not at all fiscally feasible, and many people can't even tell the difference.

If I were you, I would try a VA panel and get used to the mild color shifting. The input lag will most likely not be a problem and you'll save a lot of money (well $500 vs $800). Check out the 24" VA panels in the OP and see if any local stores, or Dell.com, carry them so that you could return them.