[Retired] The LCD Thread

[HercDriver]

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It seems like a super price for a 24", and I've been searching for reviews of the monitor, but there's not much out there. Any thoughts? Use would be general computing, a few games, and internet.

 

[invincibul]

Well, I'm back from my info search, seems BenQ monitors are available here, even a few NEC ones', any suggestions on 22' Models which I should be looking at, I'll mainly be using the Monitor for a variety of purposes, like Watching TV, HD flicks, Playing the Xbox 360, PC, etc..

 

[CampinKarl]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Response time will make the most difference, so I recommend going with the LG. I can guarantee you it is a great gaming panel and a great overall deal.

The VX922 doesn't have that much ghosting though...so I'm not sure you'll notice much improvement, but that's as good as you can get for an LCD.

HDMI is generally pointless because DVI can be converted to HDMI. The HP is a good overall panel but the LG still edges it out.

I would like to know one more thing, what is your opinion on newer LCD's being able to run 85hz refresh rate. Have you tried out an LCD that is able to hit 85hz with an FPS game such as cs, quake, far cry, etc? Is there a difference in smoothness or anything?

Viewsonic seems to be addressing this as well with their new prototype introduced at NVISION '08.

http://www.slashgear.com/views...ghosting-blur-2514608/

 

[darXoul]

Thanks for the reply, xtknight. In fact, pretty much all non-TN large monitors have around 2 frames average input lag. Subjectively, when I tried moving the mouse pointer around on Win desktop in store, both PVAs (Eizo 2431 and NEC 2470WNX) seemed a bit more laggy than the 2690.

I'm not a competitive gamer. I used to play Q3 ProMode (CPMA) at a pretty high level but nowadays, I'm a casual, although demanding gamer, playing all sorts of games - from MMO to FPS - but nothing really competitive.

 

[invincibul]

Woah!! CampinKarl, I'd inquired about this model, i.e., VX2265wm 2 weeks ago with the local ViewSonic Distributor(I didnt even know tht it had 120Hz refresh rate then), It was supposed to launch by the end of this month or Early October..

 

[suklee]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Kai920
I still don't know what I am going to get... I am basically looking at this page (click on LCD from the drop down).

Asus 24" MK241H - Newegg - built-in webcam

BenQ FP241VW - Newegg

Samsung 2442BW - Newegg

Viewsonic 25.5" VA2626WM - Newegg

The VW is the only model I know, but it's a great choice *(VA panel).

That's great to hear... spec page says 25.5" Wide Color a-Si TFT Active Matrix.

The price is actually cheaper than the other choices so I was a bit "worried" - because it's larger than the others as well. I'll do a bit more research on the VA2626WM. (full specs)

 

[toslat]

nm

 

[FordGT]

Here's a video showing what my HP w2207h does. Anyone ever see anything like this?

Notice when something light is placed under the green sub pixel it becomes brighter and then dims as soon as I remove the window from under it. It's located 2 1/2 inches down from the top near the middle on the screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UETE2kmI0k

 

[laikinasis]

Wide gamut monitors work just fine for my uses. Most apps where wide gamut makes a difference provide the option to use a color profile, which does a decent job of gamut transformation. Most apps that don't look great in wide gamut. I am not sure about the crusade against wide gamut monitors but I continue to recommend them for all uses except when sRGB photo editing is the highest priority. Most colorimeters will work with wide gamut monitors fine, but I heard the Spyder 2 has some problems with WG monitors. The OP will be updated with this info.

Things like viewing angle and response time are noticed more than gamut on a daily use basis. How much the wider gamut appears depends highly on what colors you show. Sometimes there is not much difference, although solid bright colors tend to suffer the most. Like I said, many apps allow you to use color profiles.

Ok, let's review how software makers are prepared to wide gamut:
1. Photo editing - ok. Photoshop has color management.
2. Photo viewing - not ok. As far as I remember, there are no good freeware viewers with color management. Acdsee Pro is color managed, but it's not cheap.
3. Browsers - not ok. As far as I remember, Firefox 3 and Safari (?) have color management. Everyone else does not.
4. Video - not ok. I've searched - there are no video players with color management (except in Apple). And no one knows how much time it will take to write one or upgrade existing ones.
5. Games - not ok. I doubt that they will have color management even in the nearest future. Though some like oversaturated colors.

It will take time, at least a year or a couple of years to rewrite the software implementing color management. That's why (IMHO) today wide gamut is not a good choice for many casual users.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: laikinasis
2. Photo viewing - not ok. As far as I remember, there are no good freeware viewers with color management. Acdsee Pro is color managed, but it's not cheap.

Eye of GNOME for Linux has color management, and it is not hard to implement for other apps. We should see it soon. Until then, you can just open it in Photoshop.

3. Browsers - not ok. As far as I remember, Firefox 3 and Safari (?) have color management. Everyone else does not.

I thought I heard Office would be implementing color management, and IE8. Every power user (ones who'd care about gamut) I know uses FF3, so this isn't a problem. Opera will have to implement it soon to keep up, and Safari already has it. Chrome, based on Safari's WebKit engine, probably just has to add a front-end to implement it.

4. Video - not ok. I've searched - there are no video players with color management (except in Apple). And no one knows how much time it will take to write one or upgrade existing ones.

Broadcast video isn't necessarily specified as sRGB. In fact, I researched this a while back and found that the color gamut flag specified in some H.264 videos did not differentiate between sRGB or wide gamut.

5. Games - not ok. I doubt that they will have color management even in the nearest future. Though some like oversaturated colors.

Most of the time you can't get color management with games or videos, but most of the time they look great on a wide gamut monitor. Many videos and games don't have a specified gamut.

It will take time, at least a year or a couple of years to rewrite the software implementing color management. That's why (IMHO) today wide gamut is not a good choice for many casual users.

It takes a year because many programmers are lazy, but not because it is hard to implement.

Most casual users do not care about the oversaturation, or might prefer it. If you know you don't want it, that's fine, although you are severely limiting your choices in this market and for not all that much of a good reason. I don't think that once you try a wide gamut monitor you will want to go back, despite the minor speedbumps it presents.

Those who edit photos a lot have a reason to stick with sRGB though. Images are rendered maybe 30% better on true sRGB monitors than on well-emulated ones. Even then, viewing angle stability and panel type is still as important.

 

[minijag]

What do you think about the L227WT getting an average of 27ms input lag on DigitalVersus?
http://www.digitalversus.com/d...&mo2=349&p2=3278&ph=12
And on prad.de they report the input lag being 0ms.

They are both pretty reputable sources, but it's not like I can just go out and test this myself. I'm really thinking about buying a L227WT for gaming, but if its getting a high input delay just like every other LCD, I can get a much better image quality for my buck.

 

[zambie]

Hi everyone,
I'm looking at getting an external monitor (22"-24") range to compliment my MBP. I'm presently in India which is severely debilitating my options - the electronics market has a long way to catch up. Anyways, I wanted a monitor that I'll be using for
1. a bit of gaming (fifia, crysis, battlefield, need for speed)
2. watching movies, shows (some in HD print)
3. and being able to have a multitude of windows open all over the screen and not be very restricted by screen real estate.

I won't be requiring the monitor for a very wide viewing angle/ very high / low viewing angles either, however, I do prefer colour consistency as well as colour correctness.

options i've looked at

Samsung T220
http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...&model_cd=LS22TWHSU/XL
http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...S22TWHSU/XL&fullspec=F

and
Samsung la22a450
http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...model_cd=LA22A450C1LXL

http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...22A450C1LXL&fullspec=F


Other issues:

1.The one thing I'm wondering about is whether 1680x1050 resolution is good enough for a 22" or whether 1920x1200 is a better resolution for such screen sizes.

2. The other thing is, the T220 is doesn't have an HDMI, while the la22a450 does. What are the disadvantages of not having the HDMI port? I've heard that the HDMI is basically in rudimentary terms - the DVI along with the audio signal, while the DVI doesn't carry audio? Is this the case?

3. Back Light Bleeding issues - are they very prominent for the t220 series?

4. How can I identify the Panel Maker for these monitors?

5. Are any of these monitors worth looking at - BENQ E2200HD, LG W2252S, LG L226WTQ?

Do you think the two i've mentioned above are good monitors?

 

[LeoM]

Just a thought on sRGB versus wide gamut .. at this point it almost seems like sRGB is an irrelevant restriction on technology. If cameras can capture wide gamut, and screens can display wide gamut, and wide gamut can be transmitted from device to device, what's the point of limiting the pallette?

Just thinking out loud here. :beer:

~
Edit: Okay, I already thought of some rebuttals to my premise. But still.

 

[invincibul]

Guys, what are your thoughts on the LG L2242T 22-incher, supposedly a cheaper or a low end version of the L2252T.. If you do get any info on this or have had seen or come through this model please post your thoughts on this model.. And If you can do a comparison of this and the ViewSonic VX2255wmb.

Please guys..

 

[Zulli85]

I am currently in the market for a new 24" LCD but am unsure as to what I should get. I had my heart set on the Dell 2408 for months, and now that I would have been able to afford it the price went up to $689. I was also going to consider the recommended BenQ 24" screen, but it is apparently a deactivated item at Newegg. So I ask, what should I do?

I really don't want to go much higher than $500, $689 is simply unjustifiable. The monitor will be used quite a bit for gaming including my XBox 360 as well as RTS and shooter games on my PC. It will also be used for taking online classes and normal internet use. I also will ask that it has at least one HDMI port for future-proofness.

Any help from the pros is really appreciated, thanks for your time!

 

[dark2phoenix]

Hello.

I'm also in the market for a 24" Display. I appear to always have the financial means when the monitors go EOL. I tried at Christmas to order a BenQ 241VW and ended up getting strung along till April when I finally canceled the order.

After trying to get caught up on this thread (it's August and new $$ from birthday) I eventually settled on the BenQ G2400WD which PCNation said they had in stock. I found out today that they actually don't and I'm afraid that I'm going to be going for another "we do expect to get them" ride because BenQ's own website doesn't seem to be selling them anymore.

I see that the guide hasn't been updated since July. Is that because there's a lull in the display market (or possibly xknight has a life )? I've got a Samsung 245BW at work and I like it. I see a few of them are still on sale at Amazon but I kept reading that the G2400WD is a better monitor.

Is there a current recommended list for 24" displays for gaming? I'm really interested in a display that can do 1920X1200 and works well for PC Shooters. I've got a Nvidia 8800GTX so I should be good for processing power at home.

 

[ninethirty]

Yeah, I know that the G2400WD is highly recommended here and elsewhere, but I don't know exactly what sets it apart from other 24" TN panels -- is it just that it has been professionally reviewed, and most haven't, or is its panel really superior to others? I guess the TN monitors don't get quite the level of critical attention that the MPVA and IPS monitors get.
I emailed Benq sales to see if the G2400WD was likely to come back in stock, or whether it was discontinued; they referred me to the "presales" department at 1-866-600-2367. I have not called yet.
I've been waiting for a consensus on the new IPS monitors (HP LP2475w, DoubleSight 265w) but in the meantime I'm trying to gauge how much I'm giving up by going with a TN. Given the lack of unavailability of the G2400WD, I'm especially curious about the Acer P243WAid -- I like glossy screens, but there's just no professional reviews and I have no way to gauge whether it's inferior to the G2400WD in some way.
So all that is to say, I'm not much help. I think xtknight was waiting on a few more reviews on some of the recently released monitors before updating the list -- I wouldn't say it's a lull, rather we seem to be recently coming out of a lull. That, and he probably has a life.

 

[Araemo]

Originally posted by: xtknight
The high end monitors are not going to better than the VX900. They will probably be a little slower. That doesn't mean it will be very serious and unless you're badly addicted to games, frankly you probably won't care about it or even notice it.

That surprises me.. but if that's the case... then I think I'm going to put my tax refund toward a DSLR instead of a fancy ass monitor...

If you think you fit into that category, then steer clear of it and get a TN panel instead.

I don't think the LCD2090 has as much input lag as the LCD2490. I'm not sure. It's a lot to spend for a 20" monitor, especially these days.

I'm definitely an avid gamer, but I'm also a digital photography buff, so I want the good color reproduction of the PVA/IPS (Seemingly particularly IPS) monitors as well.

 

[ninethirty]

Originally posted by: zambie
1.The one thing I'm wondering about is whether 1680x1050 resolution is good enough for a 22" or whether 1920x1200 is a better resolution for such screen sizes.

That's normal for 22". 1680x1050 in 22" is 0.282mm per pixel, which is roughly the same as 1920x1200 in 26". 1920x1200 in 22" would be quite small.

Originally posted by: zambie
2. The other thing is, the T220 is doesn't have an HDMI, while the la22a450 does. What are the disadvantages of not having the HDMI port? I've heard that the HDMI is basically in rudimentary terms - the DVI along with the audio signal, while the DVI doesn't carry audio? Is this the case?

Basically. If the monitor doesn't have speakers, then whether the cable carries audio won't matter to you. Whether you'd prefer HDMI or DVI may also depend on what the devices you want to hook up are using. But, except for the audio issue, you can convert between HDMI and DVD without a problem.

Those are the only questions I'm really qualified to answer

 

[Aggressor22]

XTknight, when i look up close to my screen, i can see the 'dots' again, most are blue. An question to this, can stuck (sub)pixels be seen on a 3008wfp in a dark room with a black background from a distince of 40-50cm?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: FordGT
Here's a video showing what my HP w2207h does. Anyone ever see anything like this?

Notice when something light is placed under the green sub pixel it becomes brighter and then dims as soon as I remove the window from under it. It's located 2 1/2 inches down from the top near the middle on the screen.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UETE2kmI0k

Never seen it before, but it's probably because whatever addresses that column of transistors has a problem.

Originally posted by: Kai920

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: Kai920
I still don't know what I am going to get... I am basically looking at this page (click on LCD from the drop down).

Asus 24" MK241H - Newegg - built-in webcam

BenQ FP241VW - Newegg

Samsung 2442BW - Newegg

Viewsonic 25.5" VA2626WM - Newegg

The VW is the only model I know, but it's a great choice *(VA panel).

That's great to hear... spec page says 25.5" Wide Color a-Si TFT Active Matrix.

The price is actually cheaper than the other choices so I was a bit "worried" - because it's larger than the others as well. I'll do a bit more research on the VA2626WM. (full specs)

The VA2626WM is a TN. (The VA at the beginning does not mean it has a Vertical Alignment panel.)

The FP241VW, does however have a Vertical Alignment panel.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: zambie
Hi everyone,
I'm looking at getting an external monitor (22"-24") range to compliment my MBP. I'm presently in India which is severely debilitating my options - the electronics market has a long way to catch up. Anyways, I wanted a monitor that I'll be using for
1. a bit of gaming (fifia, crysis, battlefield, need for speed)
2. watching movies, shows (some in HD print)
3. and being able to have a multitude of windows open all over the screen and not be very restricted by screen real estate.

I won't be requiring the monitor for a very wide viewing angle/ very high / low viewing angles either, however, I do prefer colour consistency as well as colour correctness.

options i've looked at

Samsung T220
http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...&model_cd=LS22TWHSU/XL
http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...S22TWHSU/XL&fullspec=F

and
Samsung la22a450
http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...model_cd=LA22A450C1LXL

http://www.samsung.com/in/cons...22A450C1LXL&fullspec=F


Other issues:

1.The one thing I'm wondering about is whether 1680x1050 resolution is good enough for a 22" or whether 1920x1200 is a better resolution for such screen sizes.

2. The other thing is, the T220 is doesn't have an HDMI, while the la22a450 does. What are the disadvantages of not having the HDMI port? I've heard that the HDMI is basically in rudimentary terms - the DVI along with the audio signal, while the DVI doesn't carry audio? Is this the case?

Already answered by ninethirty.

3. Back Light Bleeding issues - are they very prominent for the t220 series?

I don't know. But I suspect the Samsung panel lottery is still in effect, so I'd avoid it.

Edit: yeah, it is.

4. How can I identify the Panel Maker for these monitors?

I don't know. It's probably hidden and the only way would be the open up the case.

Edit: found this on Newegg

Other Thoughts: Use google to find the procedure for accessing the "hidden menu" that will give you your panel's version string, from there you can tell who the panel manufacturer is.

5. Are any of these monitors worth looking at - BENQ E2200HD, LG W2252S, LG L226WTQ?

Do you think the two i've mentioned above are good monitors?

The L226WTQ is the only one that I think is worth it out of the ones you list, but it's also one of my primary recommendations so I think that's an easy choice here.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: LeoM
Just a thought on sRGB versus wide gamut .. at this point it almost seems like sRGB is an irrelevant restriction on technology. If cameras can capture wide gamut, and screens can display wide gamut, and wide gamut can be transmitted from device to device, what's the point of limiting the pallette?

Just thinking out loud here. :beer:

~
Edit: Okay, I already thought of some rebuttals to my premise. But still.

There isn't really any point, but OS makers are too lazy to move from sRGB and implement complete color support.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: minijag
What do you think about the L227WT getting an average of 27ms input lag on DigitalVersus?
http://www.digitalversus.com/d...&mo2=349&p2=3278&ph=12
And on prad.de they report the input lag being 0ms.

They are both pretty reputable sources, but it's not like I can just go out and test this myself. I'm really thinking about buying a L227WT for gaming, but if its getting a high input delay just like every other LCD, I can get a much better image quality for my buck.

This is the only site I've seen that reports it this way, and I've concluded that they have invalid results. This was also covered earlier in the thread.

I also have it personally and it's a display I would not hesitate to recommend to any gamer.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: invincibul
Guys, what are your thoughts on the LG L2242T 22-incher, supposedly a cheaper or a low end version of the L2252T.. If you do get any info on this or have had seen or come through this model please post your thoughts on this model.. And If you can do a comparison of this and the ViewSonic VX2255wmb.

Please guys..

Sorry, I have no info about the L2242T at all. Other than, it's very likely TN.

Originally posted by: Zulli85
I am currently in the market for a new 24" LCD but am unsure as to what I should get. I had my heart set on the Dell 2408 for months, and now that I would have been able to afford it the price went up to $689. I was also going to consider the recommended BenQ 24" screen, but it is apparently a deactivated item at Newegg. So I ask, what should I do?

I really don't want to go much higher than $500, $689 is simply unjustifiable. The monitor will be used quite a bit for gaming including my XBox 360 as well as RTS and shooter games on my PC. It will also be used for taking online classes and normal internet use. I also will ask that it has at least one HDMI port for future-proofness.

Any help from the pros is really appreciated, thanks for your time!

Yeah, it's very frustrating that models just disappear week by week.

The BenQ V2400W (which I recommend for your uses) is essentially the same thing as the G2400WD was, and that will have to be changed on my list. http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824014177