[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Exclusive
Well, I still now want to know what's the best for a TN panel 24"; price (preferably best bang for buck).

Samsung 2493HM?
BenQ V2400W?
BenQ G2400WD?

Why did the G2400WD replace V2400W is what I'm curious now? If it did 'replace' it, does that mean, the G2400WD is better overall? Is the V2400W leany towards an angle due to its asymmetric-design? What is the best to get now or should I wait till 2009 releases? I want the best picture quality and performance!

There's no real reason the V2400W is off my list other than that it's out of stock everywhere I look. I think it's discontinued. (Actually, it says in stock at BenQ store but I believe these are just excess units.)

I believe the BenQs are a better deal than the Samsung because of lower scaling lag, better default colors and 1:1 support as I state in my recommendation. It's also cheaper.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: jmg
is there an LG monitor below 22" that also has better than 2ms response time?

or another make that's 17/19" that has the same?


i'm looking for a monitor that's good for cs 1.6 in particuliar, as its notoriously hard to find one without buying CRT (because of the refresh rate thingy)

I haven't seen an LCD ever rated below 2 ms g2g on the market. LG's Flatron 2 ms g2g-rated series are the best you will ever get at 17/19" these days. The best of them will reach under 7 ms for all transitions, like any of the other great LCDs out there.

I don't know if you will be able to find a standard aspect ratio 17/19" LG on the market these days, unfortunately. It's probably not worth the trouble to get one second hand, but instead to just choose another TN.

A lot of the Samsungs have color/panel lottery problems. I believe these affected their 17" and 19" models to a certain extent.

You would definitely be looking at a TN panel. It's best to go store shopping in this case as few of the 17" and 19" models are even reviewed anymore, except for widescreen which I assumed you weren't looking for?

The HP LP1965 is a very good choice for general use, although it's not a very fast gaming or TN panel. I'm not even sure that any 17" or 19" 5:4 TN on the market today uses overdrive anymore. The only one I can see that may is the VP950b which I can hardly vouch for.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824116120

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Gatss
It's been a while since I posted but it looks like the deal I got on my Viewsonic VX2435WM may have been too good to be true. It seems to be shorting out every so often. The screen goes black as if its lost power or signal, then if I gently shake it, the signal is reacquired or it just comes right back on. The problem is I can't make it happen by shaking the monitor, it's just random. My thoughts are that the monitor may be getting too hot when I use it all day, but I don't think that should happen.

Anyway, I am at the point where it has happened enough times that I want to see if I can get an RMA and return it to Viewsonic for a replacement. The trouble is I spent a lot of research time on this monitor when it was recommended here. Now there are no Viewsonic monitors in the recommendations. My fear is that this monitor is no longer being produced and they will want to replace it with a new model that I have no information on. I would like a 24" VA panel at the very least. Lower input lag and response time are my next most wanted. I use this monitor primarily for web design and gaming.

If you have any Viewsonic recommendations please let me know.

Thanks

I personally own this model and haven't had this problem with it. I'm sorry that you are experiencing issues with it.

The ViewSonic VX2255wmb and VX2435wm are still good LCDs. I'm not sure many people were a huge fan of the bezel and ever since, there are better choices, like the Samsung T220 and Dell 2408WFP/HP LP2465/LP2475w respectively which offer noticeably performance and better on-screen interfaces.

The main beef I have with ViewSonic is the outdated menus they have on the LCDs, the continually bad overdrive control they have in nearly all their models, and reported DVI problems (at least in the past). (The VX2255wmb doesn't use overdrive so it's exempt from this complaint. It's possible I would re-add it in the future.)

The VX2435 was good but as I saw when I tried it for myself, the menu was quite buggy and the scaling worked reliably only about half the time. I had a very bad experience with the VP930b I owned having ugly dithering and overdrive artifacts, as well as falsely advertised HD 720p support and I even managed to somehow activate the theft deterrent control in it at one point. I'm just not very fond of them so I have not been recommending them lately, especially in light of the better and well-available models that have come on the market.

I can't help but think that your unit was a result of ViewSonic's generally bad QC as well.

I would highly consider the HP LP2475w or Dell 2408WFP.

 

[Exclusive]

Hey xt, since you're more active on this thread since you're the OP, what would YOU get?
The V2400W or the G2400WD? Despite the cost! I don't really mind!

And would you actually recommend a S-PVA? (Most preferably the Dell 2408WFP)

 

[LeoM]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: LeoM
Hi, first time LCD buyer here. I'm coming from an NEC FE791sb Diamondtron CRT, so I'm used to a high quality picture, suitable at least for web photo work. I need to stay under $500.

I am looking at two widescreen units -- the LG L227WTG and the NEC 20WMGX2. I can get the LG new of course, and the NEC is available as a factory refurb. Both have gotten high praise in this thread but I haven't seen a direct comparison between the two, subjective or otherwise. Any comparative info appreciated.

I have owned both and I can say the NEC is still better for photo work because of better screen stability (viewing angle). That's the clear choice here IMO. (The LG of course is great for movies and games, though, but the NEC is too.)

[/quote]

xtknight, thought you might enjoy a follow up story, don't know if you recall but I did acquire a 20WMGX2 on your advice, and I still marvel every time I turn it on.

But ever since I returned the LG227 to Best Buy, I'd been missing it a little bit, because the 22" screen, at the same resolution, is just bigger, easier to read. One reason the NEC looks so good is from having 1680x1050 pixels crammed into 20 inches. Great for photos, not so great for text.

So, I went and bought the LG227. Now they are side by side, and I get the benefits of both.

:sun: :beer: Thanks again, you saved me a heap of time.

 

[imported_jmg]

thanks xtknight!

i know this in un-related, but does anyone know if theirs really a thin shadow that appears over the top of the Viewsonic G90fb CRTs screen?

 

[NTB]

How bad is a glossy-style screen in an office environment? I've wanted a larger monitor at work for quite a while and I really like the HP w2207h that I just recently bought for home use - especially the fact that it can be rotated and used in portrait mode

And, while I'm thinking about it: my PC at work is a ~3-year old, Pentium4-based dell with built-in Intel graphics...would that be enough to drive a monitor like this?

Nathan

 

[ibex333]

Hey xtknight, I'm having great difficulty finding a decent 22" gaming monitor UNDER $300 that has a 1:1 scaling option. Do you know of any? Originally I wanted to get a 16:9 HD monitor that happens to be priced below $300 AND have 1:1 scaling... That is proving impossible, so now I'm willing to settle for 16:10 as long as it meets my other requirements.

 

[brencat]

Thx xt and others for your advice -- my cousin loved the LG L227WTG I helped buy him for Xmas. Now I'm going to use some of my holiday cash for myself. Although I was tempted to buy a second monitor, I decided at the last minute that 22" was just a bit too small and that I'd personally rather have a 24".

That leaves me with the BenQ G2400WD which I've never seen as my likely choice. However, I was in Circuit City and Best Buy today and I saw a 24" LG W2452T-TF which also looked very very nice. Although it's not a glossy screen, the colors seemed rich and accurate, and the viewing angles were quite good -- similar to the 22" LG. It even had a similar (the same?) OSD. To my eyes, it was better than anything Samsung had in 24" TN, including both the 2493HM and T240.

From some brief digging, this monitor has been out for at least 6 mos but there's not a lot of discussion or reviews out that I can find, even here.

xt, 10e, or anyone else who may have seen both ... would you give me your opinion of how the LG W2452T-TF compares with the BenQ G2400WD, since they are similarly priced? It will be 80% for gaming, 20% for office work, thanks.

 

[10e]

Originally posted by: ibex333
Hey xtknight, I'm having great difficulty finding a decent 22" gaming monitor UNDER $300 that has a 1:1 scaling option. Do you know of any? Originally I wanted to get a 16:9 HD monitor that happens to be priced below $300 AND have 1:1 scaling... That is proving impossible, so now I'm willing to settle for 16:10 as long as it meets my other requirements.

The BenQ E2200HD is a 22" with 1:1 pixel mapping and 1920x1080 resolution (16:9). It's not explicitly stated in the manual or OSD, but it does do it. It also has low input lag. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

NCIXUS also has the E2400HD for under $285.00, but shipping may put it over $300.00. it's a 1920x1080/16:9 monitor 24". This also has 1:1 pixel mapping. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

If you are having trouble finding the BenQ, and wish to have 1:1 pixel mapping on a PC, the Samsung 2343BW/BWX will do it with PC only. It has a strange 2048x1152 resolution, but it seems pretty good too. Only DVI and VGA though.

 

[you2]

I just went through this process. I ended up with the hp l2065 (see my post on previous page). I'm not in love with it but it is ips (l complaint is very bright and large amount of bleed).

The options seem to be dell, hp, viewsonic and nec (various models). Rumor is the newest dells and hp are pva. The hp I obtained had a sep 2008 man. date and is IPS (purchased through amazon). If I had seen the dell 20inch on sale I would probably have gone with it. nec and viewsonic are more expensive but they have one model below $500 if you can find it.

Anyways I would go with either the dell or hp. Both will be around $420 (when I placed my order the dell was $430 shipped and the hp $400 shipped but prices flux and dell does have a number of options to lower the price (sales, coupons, ...).

I do not know if my HP is typical with regards to the backlight issue. If it is then I would recommend you avoid it (my old dell was not prefect but reasonable and the dell I use at work (one of the 24 inch models) is fine). I'm not that picky - i.e, I do not turn off the lights and try to spot the smallest amount of uneven lighting - in this case the hp was radically poor. I was able to make it marginally acceptable by adjusting the tension on the frame.

This will probably be my last hp product.

Originally posted by: gammaray
Could i get 2 recommendations for 20" S-IPS panels max 500$ thank you.

 

[ibex333]

Originally posted by: 10e

Originally posted by: ibex333
Hey xtknight, I'm having great difficulty finding a decent 22" gaming monitor UNDER $300 that has a 1:1 scaling option. Do you know of any? Originally I wanted to get a 16:9 HD monitor that happens to be priced below $300 AND have 1:1 scaling... That is proving impossible, so now I'm willing to settle for 16:10 as long as it meets my other requirements.

The BenQ E2200HD is a 22" with 1:1 pixel mapping and 1920x1080 resolution (16:9). It's not explicitly stated in the manual or OSD, but it does do it. It also has low input lag. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

NCIXUS also has the E2400HD for under $285.00, but shipping may put it over $300.00. it's a 1920x1080/16:9 monitor 24". This also has 1:1 pixel mapping. DVI, HDMI, VGA.

If you are having trouble finding the BenQ, and wish to have 1:1 pixel mapping on a PC, the Samsung 2343BW/BWX will do it with PC only. It has a strange 2048x1152 resolution, but it seems pretty good too. Only DVI and VGA though.

Quoted from Anandtech's review here: http://www.anandtech.com/displ...howdoc.aspx?i=3449&p=3

"The E2200HD has two aspect ratio options, Full and Aspect. "Full" is supposed to stretch whatever resolution you're running to fill the whole screen. "Aspect" should maintain the aspect ratio of whatever resolution you're using and fill as much of the screen as possible, leaving you with black bars on the top/bottom or left/right sides."

Are you sure this monitor has 1:1? From the review it doesn't look like it. I wanted to go for the 24" since the price difference is negligible, but according to the same review, the E2400HD is significantly worse than the E2200HD when it comes to non-native resolutions.

Also, I'd like to know how important is the 1080p support on PC monitors? I don't have any game consoles, but I figured this might be important for the future if they start making games specifically for these resolutions. Well, that and this monitor can double as a small TV hooked up to my cable box through HDMI. If there aren't many reasons to get a 1080p monitor as far as PC usage goes, I'm wondering if I should just get a 16:10 monitor instead...

 

[aceO07]

I'm considering the HP LP2475W to replace my DELL 2001fp, which has developed major vertical strips.

What's a good price trusted reseller that I could buy it from? It's $594 on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm in NY. So after tax, it's like $645.

 

[you2]

Please describe the vertical bar on your 2001fp (I just replaced my 2001fp because the left edge developed a vertical bar 1/8 of the screen in width). I'm curious if this is a common failure for that monitor (mine was 4 years old).

Originally posted by: aceO07
I'm considering the HP LP2475W to replace my DELL 2001fp, which has developed major vertical strips.

What's a good price trusted reseller that I could buy it from? It's $594 on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm in NY. So after tax, it's like $645.

 

[aceO07]

Originally posted by: you2
Please describe the vertical bar on your 2001fp (I just replaced my 2001fp because the left edge developed a vertical bar 1/8 of the screen in width). I'm curious if this is a common failure for that monitor (mine was 4 years old).

I think our monitors must have been sibling. Mine is 4 years in a few days, I think.

It's on the left side, maybe 1" to 1.5" thick. Consisting of vertical stripes (1pixel wide) going down, every other other pixel. At first, it didn't show up until 30minutes into being used. Now it just shows immediately. It started about 4-5 months ago. I just haven't had time to replace it. Now it's much worse. From the bar to the middle of the screen, the video feeds seems to be messed up too.

This is a common issue. I've seen it mentioned on the DELL monitor forums too.

 

[you2]

bleh. I wonder what exactly is failing. At first I thought it might be the video ram but if this is common and always the left side then perhaps it is some other part. Hum. bleh. The middle was fine - but the bar was too wide to ignore (for games). Oh well. I was never happy with that monitor (didn't have the rich saturation my sister's had).

 

[aceO07]

Originally posted by: you2
bleh. I wonder what exactly is failing. At first I thought it might be the video ram but if this is common and always the left side then perhaps it is some other part. Hum. bleh. The middle was fine - but the bar was too wide to ignore (for games). Oh well. I was never happy with that monitor (didn't have the rich saturation my sister's had).

I read on some forum, that the 2001fp had 2 versions. The earlier ones had IPS and the later ones used PVA. Maybe your sister has the IPS version.

I know that my 2001fp doesn't really compare to my Thinkpad, which has IPS panel.

 

[Diocles]

Question #1: What do you do against 3:2 pulldown (that is, when one frame of the 24 fps movie apears for 2, and the next one for 3 refreshes on your 60Hz display, and this causes great judder) when you're watching movies on your LCD monitor?

Problem #2: Until now, I've had a 19'' which supported 75Hz natively and everything was just fine. But then I bought a HP 2475W, which can't do 75Hz but max 60Hz, which was _terrible_. Then I found out it can actually do 50Hz natively, which made things a lot better, but still not perfect as most movies are 24 fps, so about 2 frames a second are displayed 20ms longer (3 refreshes instead of 2).

I've heard of 120Hz TV that should solve this problem, but I don't need a LCD TV, because I sit close to the monitor.

Question #2: But I still require something with good colors, low input lag, 72/75Hz support and >24'' size (may be either TN, IPS, VA). Does such a monitor exist?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: gammaray
Could i get 2 recommendations for 20" S-IPS panels max 500$ thank you.

HP LP2065 or Dell 2007FP. Unfortunately, both of these are only S-IPS about half of the time, perhaps more likely with the LP2065. I know no other 20" S-IPS panels at or below that price point.

Originally posted by: Goone40
XTKnigh,
Do you know if planar 2611 will have hdmi soon really want to buy their 26 inches but no hdmi output or at least another dvi connection, do you have any recommendation IPS panel please, also went and look at the apple 30 inch monitor it is gorous, also does the NEC monitor 2690 equivalent to the picture of apple I know nec have high input lag for game.
thanks

I don't think Planar will be coming out with another IPS any time soon. None of the 26" IPS panels have an HDMI input. I believe the Planar and DoubleSight are outsourced from a common manufacturer which has decided not to add HDMI.

The NEC LCD2690WUXi may be laggier than the Apple (I'm not sure at all how much lag the Cinema 30" has). However, its image will equal or surpass that of the Apple Cinema Display as it has the ability to fine-tune each of its brightness levels with 14-bit precision. To fully exploit this capability you must buy the SpectraView hardware calibration/interface kit with it.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Exclusive
Hey xt, since you're more active on this thread since you're the OP, what would YOU get?
The V2400W or the G2400WD? Despite the cost! I don't really mind!

And would you actually recommend a S-PVA? (Most preferably the Dell 2408WFP)

If I were to buy a 24" now it would be the LP2475w. For some reason failing that, the Dell 2408WFP is next on *my* list. (Maybe the LCD2490WUXi if the hypothetical customer wished to spend his money that way.)

Originally posted by: LeoM
xtknight, thought you might enjoy a follow up story, don't know if you recall but I did acquire a 20WMGX2 on your advice, and I still marvel every time I turn it on.

But ever since I returned the LG227 to Best Buy, I'd been missing it a little bit, because the 22" screen, at the same resolution, is just bigger, easier to read. One reason the NEC looks so good is from having 1680x1050 pixels crammed into 20 inches. Great for photos, not so great for text.

So, I went and bought the LG227. Now they are side by side, and I get the benefits of both.

:sun: :beer: Thanks again, you saved me a heap of time.

Glad to hear. I love both of those LCDs as well.[/quote]

And I'm never throwing out my 20WMGX2 either.

Originally posted by: NTB
How bad is a glossy-style screen in an office environment? I've wanted a larger monitor at work for quite a while and I really like the HP w2207h that I just recently bought for home use - especially the fact that it can be rotated and used in portrait mode

And, while I'm thinking about it: my PC at work is a ~3-year old, Pentium4-based dell with built-in Intel graphics...would that be enough to drive a monitor like this?

Nathan

I'm not sure; I've never used a glossy display in an office environment. I assume the standard office is just fluorescent-lit from the ceiling. It really depends on a lot of things too like how picky you are. Personally I think I'd do fine in that environment with a glossy panel.

The HP w2408h is the obvious 24" glossy equivalent to what you have.

If your built-in Intel graphics provide a DVI port, then probably. If it only provides a VGA port, then probably not.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: brencat
Thx xt and others for your advice -- my cousin loved the LG L227WTG I helped buy him for Xmas. Now I'm going to use some of my holiday cash for myself. Although I was tempted to buy a second monitor, I decided at the last minute that 22" was just a bit too small and that I'd personally rather have a 24".

That leaves me with the BenQ G2400WD which I've never seen as my likely choice. However, I was in Circuit City and Best Buy today and I saw a 24" LG W2452T-TF which also looked very very nice. Although it's not a glossy screen, the colors seemed rich and accurate, and the viewing angles were quite good -- similar to the 22" LG. It even had a similar (the same?) OSD. To my eyes, it was better than anything Samsung had in 24" TN, including both the 2493HM and T240.

From some brief digging, this monitor has been out for at least 6 mos but there's not a lot of discussion or reviews out that I can find, even here.

xt, 10e, or anyone else who may have seen both ... would you give me your opinion of how the LG W2452T-TF compares with the BenQ G2400WD, since they are similarly priced? It will be 80% for gaming, 20% for office work, thanks.

I too wish I knew more about this LG that's common in brick and mortar stores. I'll see if I can ever get a look at it while I'm near a Best Buy that actually has newer monitors.

I'd almost go for the BenQ sight unseen, though. I'm not sure there'd be that much difference. If you wanted to you could get a calibrator to get the most out of the TN panel, although it's probably not worth it for your purposes.

If it helps at all, there's a comprehensive review of the T240 here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ung-topaz_9.html#sect0

...the only valuable info I could find pertinent to this discussion.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: darkrisen2003
how are the LG 24 inch monitors? I have noticed that most of them do not have an HD input.

Anything specific?

HD (high definition) has several manifestations, like component, DVI, VGA, HDMI typically.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: aceO07
I'm considering the HP LP2475W to replace my DELL 2001fp, which has developed major vertical strips.

What's a good price trusted reseller that I could buy it from? It's $594 on Amazon with prime shipping, but I'm in NY. So after tax, it's like $645.

Not sure if you'll be able to get it cheaper than that. There's HP.com ... http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...70-444767-3648442.html

Not sure how that NY tax works? I recall Newegg sending people letters saying the tax was no longer charged or something like that? Maybe that was only Newegg?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Diocles
Question #1: What do you do against 3:2 pulldown (that is, when one frame of the 24 fps movie apears for 2, and the next one for 3 refreshes on your 60Hz display, and this causes great judder) when you're watching movies on your LCD monitor?

Problem #2: Until now, I've had a 19'' which supported 75Hz natively and everything was just fine. But then I bought a HP 2475W, which can't do 75Hz but max 60Hz, which was _terrible_. Then I found out it can actually do 50Hz natively, which made things a lot better, but still not perfect as most movies are 24 fps, so about 2 frames a second are displayed 20ms longer (3 refreshes instead of 2).

That's the player's or encoder's responsibility. So maybe something like Media Player Classic Home Cinema will do it, or some of the more popular DVD software. Perhaps with some ffdshow/AviSynth stuff. I'm not too familiar with how all that stuff works together.

I thought when DVDs were encoded for home use they were set to be seen on a 60 Hz TV (NTSC) anyway so I'm not sure where this 24fps really comes in besides at the production level. Edit: or player level

And I don't believe the input lag is cumulative. If each frame was that much laggier we'd have serious issues. But, the frame actually being shown on the monitor (assuming n is the current frame) would be n-2 assuming the display had 2 frames of lag. Therefore, the speed of update isn't really different, only the offset. It's just buffering a couple for frame processing.

I've heard of 120Hz TV that should solve this problem, but I don't need a LCD TV, because I sit close to the monitor.

Question #2: But I still require something with good colors, low input lag, 72/75Hz support and >24'' size (may be either TN, IPS, VA). Does such a monitor exist?

My question, mostly for my knowledge, is what kind of media are you playing that is 24fps? I think the player or encoder should be doing this. Apparently "soft telecine" is when the player does it, and "hard telecine" is when the encoder does it.

The reason I ask is, you'll be doomed finding a monitor over 22" that does a true 75 Hz.

 

[brencat]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: brencat
xt, 10e, or anyone else who may have seen both ... would you give me your opinion of how the LG W2452T-TF compares with the BenQ G2400WD, since they are similarly priced? It will be 80% for gaming, 20% for office work, thanks.

I too wish I knew more about this LG that's common in brick and mortar stores. I'll see if I can ever get a look at it while I'm near a Best Buy that actually has newer monitors.

I'd almost go for the BenQ sight unseen, though. I'm not sure there'd be that much difference. If you wanted to you could get a calibrator to get the most out of the TN panel, although it's probably not worth it for your purposes.

If it helps at all, there's a comprehensive review of the T240 here: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...ung-topaz_9.html#sect0

...the only valuable info I could find pertinent to this discussion.

Thanks xt. FYI, I have just ordered the BenQ V2400W from their online store. They are running a special and with an additional 10% code, I got it for $323 shipped. Seems like a great deal considering the LG I was talking to you above about was $400 in Best Buy (+tax). Will let you know my impressions when it arrives! Can't fricken wait...wooooooot!