[Retired] The LCD Thread

[imported_cwilliams]

xtknight,

Thank you so much for this thread. Your information helped me decide to purchase a BenQ G2400WD monitor. Truly zero seconds of input lag (dual monitor with a CRT, was impercievable when lining up moving objects on the edge), no dead pixels, gorgeous display....excellent. As a lifetime CRT user this was my first LCD, and may have never found it without this thread. So thanks again. If I find the time I'll write a full review, but wanted to at least say thanks for now.

 

[saiga6360]

Is the G2400WD much better than the S2409W? I'm thinking of picking up the Dell at a discount.

 

[thestain]

Hi Mr. XtKnight!

Thank you for all you have done. I am thinking about getting a large screen tv and using it for double duty as pc monitor.

The thread used to mention the large Westinghouse LCD's for this purpose. I was just wondering if the newer 120MHZ large screens might work... if they might be worth a look and if you had any ideas that could point me in the right direction.

I would be 10 feet away 50% of time or a couple feet if seated at desk.the other half of the time. I am currently using a 37 Westy 1080P monitor and it works ok, but I can't really use it from ten feet away for reading text, surfing the net and filling in forms. I was thinking of getting one for viewing from 10 feet and the other one, maybe the 27 inch Dell for close up work. If however there was a good big screen where I could do both.... I would like to get it in next few weeks. I am willing to spend up to around $2K.

Thanks,

MIke

 

[imported_realone]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: realone
Question about the BenQ G2400WD

I got one a few weeks ago and the top was darker then the bottom, no matter the view angles/settings, it was still to bright. So i sent it back for another one, got it and it's doing the same thing. Not sure it's suppose to do this or not, anyone else see this problem?

You are probably noticing the effects of using a TN panel.

Hmm really? I knew it was a TN panel but man it's so bright. Enjoying the games but when doing other stuff it sucks. The bottom is so bright at all angles, I'm thinking of getting a different monitor, kinda looking at the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA. Would it be worth it? I know it's smaller but i kinda don't care as i was using a Gateway FPD2185W before this benq. Even though the gateway dose not work anymore due to blown caps (again) i just picked up a new one, but now i might just get it fixed

 

[squirrel9]

Originally posted by: realone
Hmm really? I knew it was a TN panel but man it's so bright. Enjoying the games but when doing other stuff it sucks. The bottom is so bright at all angles, I'm thinking of getting a different monitor, kinda looking at the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA. Would it be worth it? I know it's smaller but i kinda don't care as i was using a Gateway FPD2185W before this benq. Even though the gateway dose not work anymore due to blown caps (again) i just picked up a new one, but now i might just get it fixed

I can chime in, a bit. The Gateway FPD2185W is an S-PVA screen. Indeed, any TN screen just looks AWFUL in comparison. Heck, the HP 2475W shows some of that TN-type reflectiveness that the Gateway utterly doesn't -- I'm not so happy even going up to that HP H-IPS screen. I'm not sure if PVA is just plain better than even IPS in this regard, but that is my experience, so far.

At any rate, an S-PVA panel is a very good thing to have. Perhaps worth fixing -- the price of a 24-inch S-PVA seems to be around that of the Dell 2408WFP, from around $500 to $650, and dealing with the moribund, lethargic Dell.

At any rate, any TN panel is going to give you that "too dark at the top / washed out on the bottom" look -- they may be fast for gaming, but otherwise, they're only worth tossing out the window, as far as I'm concerned.

Hope that helps you put things into perspective!

 

[Pugnate]

Xtknight, why aren't Philips more popular in North America? Any ideas?

I am considering this LCD:

http://www.consumer.philips.co...CD-monitor+230C1HSB-00

Would you guess that's a good panel?

 

[Josh7289]

Originally posted by: xtknight

If I'm barking up the wrong tree then for the love of something please tell me how to fix this stupid yet awesome thing.

PS I love this monitor

Arrg - Seems as though my display is also getting dimmer and then brighter all on it's own. Now this could be do to the slight power issues that are present in my city. This is due to a late winter storm or it could be that my beloved display is dying.

Halp!!

Thanks,

Hmm not sure what to say about this one.

Sounds like the effects of a dynamic contrast ratio "feature" or something like that.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Josh7289

Originally posted by: xtknight

If I'm barking up the wrong tree then for the love of something please tell me how to fix this stupid yet awesome thing.

PS I love this monitor

Arrg - Seems as though my display is also getting dimmer and then brighter all on it's own. Now this could be do to the slight power issues that are present in my city. This is due to a late winter storm or it could be that my beloved display is dying.

Halp!!

Thanks,

Hmm not sure what to say about this one.

Sounds like the effects of a dynamic contrast ratio "feature" or something like that.

Well, yeah, that's certainly possible as well.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: UzairH
Hi Xtknight and others here,

I am getting a display for the usual - gaming, movies, and general use. I had decided on the BenQ G2400, but now I see there is a 22" IPS display available, the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA, and in your gaming displays recommendation you put it above the G2400. I don't have experience with an IPS panel so I am uncertain what advantage the 2209WA would have over the G2400 in terms of colors and viewing angles. If you have seen both, what are your views on the differences? Are the color range, accuracy, and brightness noticably better on the Dell eIPS compared to the BenQ TN? One thing I really dislike is color banding, does the BenQ have that? What about viewing angle differences?

I don't think either has color banding. The main difference you would see is that the eIPS has much better viewing angles.

Where I am the 2209WA is 20% pricier than the G2400WA. And of course the G2400 is slightly larger than the 2209WA; so if there is little difference in image quality I will go with the BenQ.

Finally, there are several G2400 variants available; the G2400WD is 15% cheaper than the G2400WA. Are there any image quality and response time differences between them?

Thanks for the answers!

I don't know about the different G2400s. At this point I would suggest the Dell eIPS. It's a great value.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: phenwaz
[Moved from a separate thread with some minor editing]

Hi all,

I currently own a (approx) 3 year old 20" ACD and am looking to 'upgrade' to a 24" LCD for bigger res and 1080p.

A friend has offered me his 23" ACD for AUD$500 (it's basically brand new still in the box - he never used it), and the only thing holding me back is the response time on the older ACD's (approx 16ms).

I'm aware of the issues with the cheaper TN panels and that there are very mixed reviews for the 'mid-range' Dell 2408WFP (which I am seriously considering purchasing except it is currently not on sale and even with a 10% EPP discount, it's about AUD$900).

Alternatively, I could just get a 24" TN panel (such as the Samsung 2443) for about $450 , i.e. half the cost of one Dell and about 1/3 the cost of any normal IPS panel.

• If anyone has every compared the different panel types side-by-side, how noticeable is the difference?

At this size it's very noticeable and I don't usually recommend TN panels 24"s or higher unless for gaming or if you're on a strict budget and really need 24". The viewing angles of TNs at this size can be quite annoying, although bearable. And the extra detail you get with VA and IPS screens is noticeable as well due to the better viewing angles of them.

• I should also add that 1:1 scaling is probably needed? And having used the 20" ACD for years, I'm guessing the 'quality' drop to a TN panel will be noticeable?

Yes I think it will be very noticeable. I'm not sure what 1:1 scaling has to do with this unless you plan on using the panel at a lower resolution but this is all described in the OP.

My uses are: general day-to-day web-surfing, watching of movies, gaming (including FPS), and some minor graphic design/editing. I would prefer 1920x1200 (instead of 1080) for the extra real estate and because I really don't mind the black bars for movies.

Things that will annoy me: irregular image quality (ghosting, fuzzy text, differing brightness throughout the screen), poor dead pixel/quality policies, etc.

Then I think TN panels might drive you nuts at that size.

What would you guys recommend? Money isn't an issue so much as 'value for money' ... that said, I don't plan on spending $1500 on one of the 24" IPS panels. I probably would buy the 24" LED ACD if connection to a PC was possible - I understand this is still an issue?

Well you can hook them up but I think the Mac displays don't have easily accessible controls. They only have the DDC/CI software controls. And I guess it only has DisplayPort so you'd need to use a DVI->DisplayPort adapter ($30 from Apple I hear).

Now I think that's kind of stupid. So stupid in fact I'd get a whole other brand just for the fact that you have to buy an odd adapter from them and that you have no controls on the display. I'd be looking at the non-TN 24"s from Dell and HP.

Essentially it boils down to whether about AUD$450 for a (Samsung/BenQ/etc) TN panel is worth it given the quality of TN panels or whether I should fork out the extra cash for the Dell, or even an IPS panel... In addition, the option of purchasing my friend's 23" ACD isn't a bad opportunity aside from the slightly dated technology and fact it is no longer under warranty.

I'd appreciate any feedback

I would take up your friend on his offer. That sounds like the best idea to me given the market. And the fact that the LP2475w is overpriced in your area (I think).

The 2408WFP's not a bad idea either but I'd first try the 23" since you already have a 20" IPS.

 

[phenwaz]

Thank you, xtknight

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: phenwaz
Thank you, xtknight

Well it obviously eluded me you don't get the controls on the 23" one either. But maybe the 23" one is the better 'value'. How much does the 24" LED ACD cost?

Edit: NM, $1500 AUD? Not worth it compared to a 23" and besides the LED monitor will probably have a crazy gamut not good for typical activities.

 

[phenwaz]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: phenwaz
Thank you, xtknight

Well it obviously eluded me you don't get the controls on the 23" one either. But maybe the 23" one is the better 'value'. How much does the 24" LED ACD cost?

Edit: NM, $1500 AUD? Not worth it compared to a 23" and besides the LED monitor will probably have a crazy gamut not good for typical activities.

Yep, the 24" LED is $1500 AUD, but I can get it for $1250. Still. Expensivo.

My options are: 2408WFP for $900, 23" ACD (as new) for $600, 22" 2209 (maybe even 2?) for $400 (each?) etc.

The deals for the 22" dells should be out tomorrow.

 

[phenwaz]

FYI, for today only with the Dell Easter specials, I can get the 2209 for $339.48 AUD. Amazing deal if I decide to go through with it.

Tomorrow is 24" monitors - I imagine they'll do $989-$100-10%EPP = $800

 

[UzairH]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: UzairH
Hi Xtknight and others here,

I am getting a display for the usual - gaming, movies, and general use. I had decided on the BenQ G2400, but now I see there is a 22" IPS display available, the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA, and in your gaming displays recommendation you put it above the G2400. I don't have experience with an IPS panel so I am uncertain what advantage the 2209WA would have over the G2400 in terms of colors and viewing angles. If you have seen both, what are your views on the differences? Are the color range, accuracy, and brightness noticably better on the Dell eIPS compared to the BenQ TN? One thing I really dislike is color banding, does the BenQ have that? What about viewing angle differences?

I don't think either has color banding. The main difference you would see is that the eIPS has much better viewing angles.

Where I am the 2209WA is 20% pricier than the G2400WA. And of course the G2400 is slightly larger than the 2209WA; so if there is little difference in image quality I will go with the BenQ.

Finally, there are several G2400 variants available; the G2400WD is 15% cheaper than the G2400WA. Are there any image quality and response time differences between them?

Thanks for the answers!

I don't know about the different G2400s. At this point I would suggest the Dell eIPS. It's a great value.

XTKNIGHT,

You rock dude, thanks for the answers! I am trying to convince myself to settle for the 22" eIPS, but am salivating a bit for the larger 24"+ LCDs from Dell and even the super (from the reviews) NEC WUXi series (gasp!).

The ONLY reason for even considering the G2400WD is that here in Denmark I can have it cheaper than it costs in USA, whereas the Dells and NECs are at least 25%, and up to 50%, more expensive than the US prices. But I will still go for one of the IPS panels, provided they do not lose much to the G2400 in gaming response time. From your experience with the Dell, HP, and NEC 24" and 25.5" panels (IPS as well as PVA), what is the effect of the reported lags of between 25ms to 40ms on gaming? My primary concern is that I playing simulation racing (rFactor), and don't want input lag.

Thanks in advance again!

 

[squirrel9]

I have some really big news about the two popular 24" non-TN monitors -- the Dell 2408WPF and the HP LP2475w. I've got 'em both sitting side-by-side on my desk. Got some great pictures to show everyone.

But.... Can it be?

I'm "new" here, but I've been posting online since CompuServe back in 1988. And, by golly, I guess it's just plain not possible to post pictures in this forum. I sure can't find any way, and come to think of it, I sure haven't seen any in my "travels" around the board.

How very strange. This would be the first time I've encountered such a situation in, oh, say, "the twenty-first century."

Sigh............

I guess I'll carry on, regardless. I guess you can imagine in your mind what I'm talking about, then "click the link" and see my pictures that way.

Whining done, let's move on to my story:

I've told my story a bit here and there already -- how I wandered into Best Buy one day, and picked up a brand-new Gateway FPD2185W 21-inch widescreen monitor. Boy, I've been happy with that monitor. Until "bigger" ones came out. I've been lusting at the 24-inch range for quite some time. My most demanding use is photo editing, and I can use all of the size and resolution I can get, within reason.

So, about a year ago, when the big new 24-inchers showed up in the stores, I grabbed one and took it home. Gosh, that thing was AWFUL!! I tried another one, a different brand. That was AWFUL, too! I tried a third brand. What on earth is so wrong with these things????

Well, that's when I started doing some research, and learned of the wonders of "TN." And how I had walked right into a truly excellent S-PVA monitor in that Gateway 21-incher. So, I gave up and went on with my life. Then, recently, it was time to upgrade my computer system -- got a new computer, terabytes of disk space, 8 gigs of RAM, and so on. Let's go look at monitors again, eh?

I gave one of the "new" TN panels a shot. Had they improved? Not at all. So, let's look at the "good" monitors, which pretty much boil down to the two major 24-inch players -- the Dell 2408WPF and the HP LP2475w. As I mentioned in a previous post, I decided on the Dell, mainly because it was the same S-PVA technology as my trusty Gateway. But, Dell's pathetic ordering system, which pushed the delivery off for a couple of weeks, with no admission that either they just didn't have the thing in stock, or they were FAR more incompetent than I thought to begin with, led me to cancel the order. And then I ordered the HP from Amazon.com, and with next-day-air shipping, I had it the next day.

And I've got to tell you -- while the overall quality was evident, and while it was still miles ahead of TN, I just still saw QUITE A BIT of that "reflectiveness instead of an accurately-displayed viewing angle" that you get with TN screens. I wasn't really very happy with that, trust me.

So. Meanwhile, I had pointed a co-worker to Dell's site to show her what I was ordering, and she decided to order one, too. But, right about the time that I started whining about the HP, she started getting cold feet. She was about to cancel her order, but I encouraged her to keep it going -- I would buy it from her, if she really didn't want it. And that's what has happened -- I got it today, hooked it up, and plopped it down right next to the HP.

So, here's my first picture -- which one do you think is which?

Picture 1

That's the Dell on the left (closer to the camera) and the HP on the right. While I didn't have them "color matched" when I took the pictures, and the Dell was set to be quite brighter than the HP at the time, I think the difference in "screen quality" is very clear.

If you look especially at the lower part of the HP's screen, you can see plenty of TN-like "reflectivity instead of an accurately-displayed viewing angle." While there's utterly nothing like that at all on the Dell screen. And the HP is actually pointing more directly at the camera than the Dell is -- this is a tougher test on the Dell than the HP.

Next picture:

Picture 2

Kind of a closer-up. I'm utterly right in front of the Dell's screen, and it's not doing the reflective fade-out at all, while the HP remains all washed out.

Next picture:

Picture 3

Look especially at the lower right corners of each screen. Washed-out IPS vs. rock-solid S-PVA.

Next picture:

Picture 4

More of a straight-ahead shot for the two monitors. Again, check out that lower right-hand corner of the HP, and how it's washed out.

Next picture:

Picture 5

The right corner of the Dell vs. the left corner of the HP. Washed-out IPS vs. a totally correct S-PVA.

One last picture:

Picture 6

This is what I'm talking about, pure and simple: With the H-IPS HP, I see "washed-out lower corners" as I work. Whereas the S-PVA Dell is just like my old S-PVA Gateway -- "What on earth is all of this reflective washing-out on everything I try in comparison to these things??"

In summary, I know that there are other aspects to be judged when comparing PVA to IPS. But I mainly want an end to this infernal "Can't I just see the whole screen with no difference from edge to edge, or corner to corner?" I sure didn't get it with the $600 I paid for the HP H-IPS.

The HP's "washing out" isn't nearly as noticeable when what you have on the screen is light-colored -- this is "worst case scenario," to be sure. But, absolutely, you can see the screen shift around, "nearly-TN-style," as you walk around the HP. But it's just not like that with the Dell, at all. Call me a PVA fanatic, and I'll give you an enthusiastic "Yeah!", every time.

I should also point out that "text often showed in different colors" on the H-IPS HP -- in this forum, especially, the black text would tend to turn green, depending upoin where on the screen it showed. But there's absolutely nothing like that on the S-PVA Dell. Black text is rock-solid "black text."

Otherwise, the Dell wins with its stand, too -- man, it's a neat stand. In my pictures, the HP is on my trusty monitor arm, which is where the Dell will wind up, soon. Though, given how the Dell stand swivels and such, I might be able to live without the arm. I'll be playing around with that for a while.

Finally, I've got to do some tweaking with the Dell -- I already have, actually -- so if you see something you don't like in the Dell's colors or brightness in these pictures, bear in mind that this was after only a few preliminary adjustments, and I'll be tweaking on it for the next few days.

So, that's my report -- I'll be glad to answer any questions, if you send any my way!

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: squirrel9

So, here's my first picture -- which one do you think is which?

Picture 1

That's the Dell on the left (closer to the camera) and the HP on the right. While I didn't have them "color matched" when I took the pictures, and the Dell was set to be quite brighter than the HP at the time, I think the difference in "screen quality" is very clear.

If you look especially at the lower part of the HP's screen, you can see plenty of TN-like "reflectivity instead of an accurately-displayed viewing angle." While there's utterly nothing like that at all on the Dell screen. And the HP is actually pointing more directly at the camera than the Dell is -- this is a tougher test on the Dell than the HP.

Next picture:

Picture 2

Kind of a closer-up. I'm utterly right in front of the Dell's screen, and it's not doing the reflective fade-out at all, while the HP remains all washed out.

Next picture:

Picture 3

Look especially at the lower right corners of each screen. Washed-out IPS vs. rock-solid S-PVA.

Next picture:

Picture 4

More of a straight-ahead shot for the two monitors. Again, check out that lower right-hand corner of the HP, and how it's washed out.

Next picture:

Picture 5

The right corner of the Dell vs. the left corner of the HP. Washed-out IPS vs. a totally correct S-PVA.

One last picture:

Picture 6

This is what I'm talking about, pure and simple: With the H-IPS HP, I see "washed-out lower corners" as I work. Whereas the S-PVA Dell is just like my old S-PVA Gateway -- "What on earth is all of this reflective washing-out on everything I try in comparison to these things??"

In summary, I know that there are other aspects to be judged when comparing PVA to IPS. But I mainly want an end to this infernal "Can't I just see the whole screen with no difference from edge to edge, or corner to corner?" I sure didn't get it with the $600 I paid for the HP H-IPS.

The HP's "washing out" isn't nearly as noticeable when what you have on the screen is light-colored -- this is "worst case scenario,"

That is the "white glow". Most H-IPS (and S-IPS) screens glow white on a black screen.

You actually can see the Dell glowing in those images: look at the sky. That is the difference between (non A-TW) IPS and PVA: black space glows white on IPS and blue sky turns turquoise on PVA. MVA simply glows white on all colors.

However, you should also know that high brightness (i.e. any brightness setting above 0) greatly exacerbates the glow. Even the NECs and polarized Doublesights will look kinda ugly at max brightness on a dark screen.

 

[palladium]

Originally posted by: squirrel9
I have some really big news about the two popular 24" non-TN monitors -- the Dell 2408WPF and the HP LP2475w. I've got 'em both sitting side-by-side on my desk. Got some great pictures to show everyone.

But.... Can it be?

I'm "new" here, but I've been posting online since CompuServe back in 1988. And, by golly, I guess it's just plain not possible to post pictures in this forum. I sure can't find any way, and come to think of it, I sure haven't seen any in my "travels" around the board.

How very strange. This would be the first time I've encountered such a situation in, oh, say, "the twenty-first century."

Sigh............

I guess I'll carry on, regardless. I guess you can imagine in your mind what I'm talking about, then "click the link" and see my pictures that way.

Whining done, let's move on to my story:

I've told my story a bit here and there already -- how I wandered into Best Buy one day, and picked up a brand-new Gateway FPD2185W 21-inch widescreen monitor. Boy, I've been happy with that monitor. Until "bigger" ones came out. I've been lusting at the 24-inch range for quite some time. My most demanding use is photo editing, and I can use all of the size and resolution I can get, within reason.

So, about a year ago, when the big new 24-inchers showed up in the stores, I grabbed one and took it home. Gosh, that thing was AWFUL!! I tried another one, a different brand. That was AWFUL, too! I tried a third brand. What on earth is so wrong with these things????

Well, that's when I started doing some research, and learned of the wonders of "TN." And how I had walked right into a truly excellent S-PVA monitor in that Gateway 21-incher. So, I gave up and went on with my life. Then, recently, it was time to upgrade my computer system -- got a new computer, terabytes of disk space, 8 gigs of RAM, and so on. Let's go look at monitors again, eh?

I gave one of the "new" TN panels a shot. Had they improved? Not at all. So, let's look at the "good" monitors, which pretty much boil down to the two major 24-inch players -- the Dell 2408WPF and the HP LP2475w. As I mentioned in a previous post, I decided on the Dell, mainly because it was the same S-PVA technology as my trusty Gateway. But, Dell's pathetic ordering system, which pushed the delivery off for a couple of weeks, with no admission that either they just didn't have the thing in stock, or they were FAR more incompetent than I thought to begin with, led me to cancel the order. And then I ordered the HP from Amazon.com, and with next-day-air shipping, I had it the next day.

And I've got to tell you -- while the overall quality was evident, and while it was still miles ahead of TN, I just still saw QUITE A BIT of that "reflectiveness instead of an accurately-displayed viewing angle" that you get with TN screens. I wasn't really very happy with that, trust me.

So. Meanwhile, I had pointed a co-worker to Dell's site to show her what I was ordering, and she decided to order one, too. But, right about the time that I started whining about the HP, she started getting cold feet. She was about to cancel her order, but I encouraged her to keep it going -- I would buy it from her, if she really didn't want it. And that's what has happened -- I got it today, hooked it up, and plopped it down right next to the HP.

So, here's my first picture -- which one do you think is which?

Picture 1

That's the Dell on the left (closer to the camera) and the HP on the right. While I didn't have them "color matched" when I took the pictures, and the Dell was set to be quite brighter than the HP at the time, I think the difference in "screen quality" is very clear.

If you look especially at the lower part of the HP's screen, you can see plenty of TN-like "reflectivity instead of an accurately-displayed viewing angle." While there's utterly nothing like that at all on the Dell screen. And the HP is actually pointing more directly at the camera than the Dell is -- this is a tougher test on the Dell than the HP.

Next picture:

Picture 2

Kind of a closer-up. I'm utterly right in front of the Dell's screen, and it's not doing the reflective fade-out at all, while the HP remains all washed out.

Next picture:

Picture 3

Look especially at the lower right corners of each screen. Washed-out IPS vs. rock-solid S-PVA.

Next picture:

Picture 4

More of a straight-ahead shot for the two monitors. Again, check out that lower right-hand corner of the HP, and how it's washed out.

Next picture:

Picture 5

The right corner of the Dell vs. the left corner of the HP. Washed-out IPS vs. a totally correct S-PVA.

One last picture:

Picture 6

This is what I'm talking about, pure and simple: With the H-IPS HP, I see "washed-out lower corners" as I work. Whereas the S-PVA Dell is just like my old S-PVA Gateway -- "What on earth is all of this reflective washing-out on everything I try in comparison to these things??"

In summary, I know that there are other aspects to be judged when comparing PVA to IPS. But I mainly want an end to this infernal "Can't I just see the whole screen with no difference from edge to edge, or corner to corner?" I sure didn't get it with the $600 I paid for the HP H-IPS.

The HP's "washing out" isn't nearly as noticeable when what you have on the screen is light-colored -- this is "worst case scenario," to be sure. But, absolutely, you can see the screen shift around, "nearly-TN-style," as you walk around the HP. But it's just not like that with the Dell, at all. Call me a PVA fanatic, and I'll give you an enthusiastic "Yeah!", every time.

I should also point out that "text often showed in different colors" on the H-IPS HP -- in this forum, especially, the black text would tend to turn green, depending upoin where on the screen it showed. But there's absolutely nothing like that on the S-PVA Dell. Black text is rock-solid "black text."

Otherwise, the Dell wins with its stand, too -- man, it's a neat stand. In my pictures, the HP is on my trusty monitor arm, which is where the Dell will wind up, soon. Though, given how the Dell stand swivels and such, I might be able to live without the arm. I'll be playing around with that for a while.

Finally, I've got to do some tweaking with the Dell -- I already have, actually -- so if you see something you don't like in the Dell's colors or brightness in these pictures, bear in mind that this was after only a few preliminary adjustments, and I'll be tweaking on it for the next few days.

So, that's my report -- I'll be glad to answer any questions, if you send any my way!

Hmm, I'm very interested in this, do you have a copy of the picture ( in jpeg or tiff or any digital form)? I want to see how it looks like on my HP....

 

[squirrel9]

Originally posted by: palladium
Hmm, I'm very interested in this, do you have a copy of the picture ( in jpeg or tiff or any digital form)? I want to see how it looks like on my HP....

Here you go:

Screen Picture

 

[spacemanspliff1]

Sigh, still no reason to get anything new? My Sony G500 crt just kills every lcd I have seen so far. Is there a $300-ish lcd of any size that can compete w/ my crt? I want a larger screen. However, that means a 24" Sony fw900 lol. 120lbs of nice but I will have to build a reinforced stand for it.

 

[squirrel9]

Originally posted by: mmnnoThat is the "white glow". Most H-IPS (and S-IPS) screens glow white on a black screen.

You actually can see the Dell glowing in those images: look at the sky. That is the difference between (non A-TW) IPS and PVA: black space glows white on IPS and blue sky turns turquoise on PVA. MVA simply glows white on all colors.

However, you should also know that high brightness (i.e. any brightness setting above 0) greatly exacerbates the glow. Even the NECs and polarized Doublesights will look kinda ugly at max brightness on a dark screen.

Let's see.... I'd say the following in response to your points:

1. Haven't heard the term "white glow" before. With a little Googling, I see its usage. Frankly, I think it's just another way of trying to describe what I'm trying to describe here. Frankly again, I don't think it's anything different from the viewing-angle nastiness you get from a TN screen -- it's just "to a considerably lesser degree." What's going on isn't a "glow" produced by the monitor -- it's just "reflected ambient light," which is "washing out" the screen, especially at the bottom and in the corners. It's really no different at all than how a typical TN screen will wash out the bottom of the screen, due to the screen's reflection of ambient light -- again, just "to a considerably lesser degree."

2. You can see all kinds of this "viewing angle reflectivity" as you walk around the HP -- again, it's just like TN, but to a lesser degree. It's not a "glossy screen" type of reflectivity -- it's just whether the screen's viewing angle reflects some ambient light back at you or not.

3. You virtually don't see any of it at all in either of the S-PVA screens I've got, including the Dell. Oh, there's a teensy bit of reflectivity change as you "walk around the Dell," but I'd call the HP about 20% of the "reflective nastiness" you get with a TN screen, and the Dell somewhere less than 1%.

4. The HP was adjusted to brightness around 15 out of 100, and the red/green/blue settings were down to about 60% of 100% -- I'd call the brightness "severely reduced" compared to 100% brightness. The Dell, in comparison, was quite a bit brighter, as I had only made a few minor adjustments before taking these pictures.

5. Bottom line, whether it be screen technology or some kind of effective anti-reflection coating, the Dell S-PVA just doesn't reflect ambient light like the HP H-IPS does.

6. The Dell's turquoise in the sky is actually in the sky in this picture -- it was a 5-second long exposure, at dusk. Any actual color differences in the different pictures I posted was probably mostly due to the camera's various exposures, as some shots included a lot more ambient light in the background than others did. "Walking around the Dell," again, is like I mentioned in #3 above -- yes, there's a wee bit of changing in the Dell, but it's very minimal compared to the HP.

7. The bottom line is that I could easily see plenty of the HP's "white glow" (if you want to call it that) in the corners, during normal use. In normal use, I just don't see anything like that at all with the Dell -- it's just an even brightness, contrast, and color, all across the screen. From top to bottom, from corner to corner. I was easily unsatisfied with the HP's performance enough to essentially "double my investment" in order to try the Dell, and I'll probably return the HP and get at least some of that "investment" back.

 

[mmnno]

Originally posted by: squirrel9

Originally posted by: mmnnoThat is the "white glow". Most H-IPS (and S-IPS) screens glow white on a black screen.

You actually can see the Dell glowing in those images: look at the sky. That is the difference between (non A-TW) IPS and PVA: black space glows white on IPS and blue sky turns turquoise on PVA. MVA simply glows white on all colors.

However, you should also know that high brightness (i.e. any brightness setting above 0) greatly exacerbates the glow. Even the NECs and polarized Doublesights will look kinda ugly at max brightness on a dark screen.

Let's see.... I'd say the following in response to your points:

1. Haven't heard the term "white glow" before. With a little Googling, I see its usage. Frankly, I think it's just another way of trying to describe what I'm trying to describe here. Frankly again, I don't think it's anything different from the viewing-angle nastiness you get from a TN screen -- it's just "to a considerably lesser degree." What's going on isn't a "glow" produced by the monitor -- it's just "reflected ambient light," which is "washing out" the screen, especially at the bottom and in the corners. It's really no different at all than how a typical TN screen will wash out the bottom of the screen, due to the screen's reflection of ambient light -- again, just "to a considerably lesser degree."

2. You can see all kinds of this "viewing angle reflectivity" as you walk around the HP -- again, it's just like TN, but to a lesser degree. It's not a "glossy screen" type of reflectivity -- it's just whether the screen's viewing angle reflects some ambient light back at you or not.

3. You virtually don't see any of it at all in either of the S-PVA screens I've got, including the Dell. Oh, there's a teensy bit of reflectivity change as you "walk around the Dell," but I'd call the HP about 20% of the "reflective nastiness" you get with a TN screen, and the Dell somewhere less than 1%.

4. The HP was adjusted to brightness around 15 out of 100, and the red/green/blue settings were down to about 60% of 100% -- I'd call the brightness "severely reduced" compared to 100% brightness. The Dell, in comparison, was quite a bit brighter, as I had only made a few minor adjustments before taking these pictures.

5. Bottom line, whether it be screen technology or some kind of effective anti-reflection coating, the Dell S-PVA just doesn't reflect ambient light like the HP H-IPS does.

6. The Dell's turquoise in the sky is actually in the sky in this picture -- it was a 5-second long exposure, at dusk. Any actual color differences in the different pictures I posted was probably mostly due to the camera's various exposures, as some shots included a lot more ambient light in the background than others did. "Walking around the Dell," again, is like I mentioned in #3 above -- yes, there's a wee bit of changing in the Dell, but it's very minimal compared to the HP.

7. The bottom line is that I could easily see plenty of the HP's "white glow" (if you want to call it that) in the corners, during normal use. In normal use, I just don't see anything like that at all with the Dell -- it's just an even brightness, contrast, and color, all across the screen. From top to bottom, from corner to corner. I was easily unsatisfied with the HP's performance enough to essentially "double my investment" in order to try the Dell, and I'll probably return the HP and get at least some of that "investment" back.

Not that I disagree about the effect of the white glow, but it's not ambient reflection. It's backlight leakage, the same with TN and PVA color shifts. The crystals don't block light at all angles, it's a basic limitation of LCD technology. That means both the color displayed on the screen and the total amount of light that passes by the crystals changes depending on the angle you view it from.

TN crystals are disordered, so as the viewing angle changes the actual color that comes out of a pixel is completely different. *VA and IPS crystals are ordered, the difference between them is that the color shifts much more than the brightness with *VA, and the brightness shifts much more with IPS.

The white glow is definitely noticeable with any non A-TW IPS screen. It's definitely not "nearly TN-style", obviously the vertical shift of TN isn't replicated in any other panel type, and the horizontal shift is much more like MVA (all colors) than IPS (dark colors.) Really, it's just a matter of what annoys you more: colors going awry (*VA), contrast going to hell (IPS), or paying three times as much as the cheapest acceptable option (A-TW IPS.)

 

[palladium]

Originally posted by: squirrel9

Originally posted by: mmnnoThat is the "white glow". Most H-IPS (and S-IPS) screens glow white on a black screen.

You actually can see the Dell glowing in those images: look at the sky. That is the difference between (non A-TW) IPS and PVA: black space glows white on IPS and blue sky turns turquoise on PVA. MVA simply glows white on all colors.

However, you should also know that high brightness (i.e. any brightness setting above 0) greatly exacerbates the glow. Even the NECs and polarized Doublesights will look kinda ugly at max brightness on a dark screen.

Let's see.... I'd say the following in response to your points:

1. Haven't heard the term "white glow" before. With a little Googling, I see its usage. Frankly, I think it's just another way of trying to describe what I'm trying to describe here. Frankly again, I don't think it's anything different from the viewing-angle nastiness you get from a TN screen -- it's just "to a considerably lesser degree." What's going on isn't a "glow" produced by the monitor -- it's just "reflected ambient light," which is "washing out" the screen, especially at the bottom and in the corners. It's really no different at all than how a typical TN screen will wash out the bottom of the screen, due to the screen's reflection of ambient light -- again, just "to a considerably lesser degree."

2. You can see all kinds of this "viewing angle reflectivity" as you walk around the HP -- again, it's just like TN, but to a lesser degree. It's not a "glossy screen" type of reflectivity -- it's just whether the screen's viewing angle reflects some ambient light back at you or not.

3. You virtually don't see any of it at all in either of the S-PVA screens I've got, including the Dell. Oh, there's a teensy bit of reflectivity change as you "walk around the Dell," but I'd call the HP about 20% of the "reflective nastiness" you get with a TN screen, and the Dell somewhere less than 1%.

4. The HP was adjusted to brightness around 15 out of 100, and the red/green/blue settings were down to about 60% of 100% -- I'd call the brightness "severely reduced" compared to 100% brightness. The Dell, in comparison, was quite a bit brighter, as I had only made a few minor adjustments before taking these pictures.

5. Bottom line, whether it be screen technology or some kind of effective anti-reflection coating, the Dell S-PVA just doesn't reflect ambient light like the HP H-IPS does.

6. The Dell's turquoise in the sky is actually in the sky in this picture -- it was a 5-second long exposure, at dusk. Any actual color differences in the different pictures I posted was probably mostly due to the camera's various exposures, as some shots included a lot more ambient light in the background than others did. "Walking around the Dell," again, is like I mentioned in #3 above -- yes, there's a wee bit of changing in the Dell, but it's very minimal compared to the HP.

7. The bottom line is that I could easily see plenty of the HP's "white glow" (if you want to call it that) in the corners, during normal use. In normal use, I just don't see anything like that at all with the Dell -- it's just an even brightness, contrast, and color, all across the screen. From top to bottom, from corner to corner. I was easily unsatisfied with the HP's performance enough to essentially "double my investment" in order to try the Dell, and I'll probably return the HP and get at least some of that "investment" back.

My report after viewing the image with my HP:

1. I didn't notice any glowing like your HP, but there certainly is a horizontal brightness shift like you and mmnno described. If I were to quantify it, I'll say it's around 10-15% of a TN vertical shift ( i have a TN next to me).

2. I certainly noticed the ambient light reflecting with my screen, although it could just be that I'm in a bright room

3. Contrary to most HPs, my HP is actually quite dark - I had to get the brightness up to 40 and the RGB to 251/235/242 ( TFTCentral settings) for me to be comfy.

4. The sky on my HP looks completely different from your HP and Dell - it is much darker ( I do get a somewhat similar image to your Dell if I dial up the brightness to 100%, but my eyes would get soar) . Did you use flash while capturing the screenshots of your Dell and HP?

 

[Yikes2000]

Originally posted by: squirrel9
Picture 1

That's the Dell on the left (closer to the camera) and the HP on the right. While I didn't have them "color matched" when I took the pictures, and the Dell was set to be quite brighter than the HP at the time, I think the difference in "screen quality" is very clear.

If you look especially at the lower part of the HP's screen, you can see plenty of TN-like "reflectivity instead of an accurately-displayed viewing angle." While there's utterly nothing like that at all on the Dell screen. And the HP is actually pointing more directly at the camera than the Dell is -- this is a tougher test on the Dell than the HP.

Are you sure the setting on your HP LP2475w is correct? It looks like the Contrast is dialed all the way down while Brightness is up too high. My Contrast is 80, Brightness 16. Please verify.

 

[squirrel9]

Originally posted by: mmnnoNot that I disagree about the effect of the white glow, but it's not ambient reflection. It's backlight leakage, the same with TN and PVA color shifts. The crystals don't block light at all angles, it's a basic limitation of LCD technology. That means both the color displayed on the screen and the total amount of light that passes by the crystals changes depending on the angle you view it from.

TN crystals are disordered, so as the viewing angle changes the actual color that comes out of a pixel is completely different. *VA and IPS crystals are ordered, the difference between them is that the color shifts much more than the brightness with *VA, and the brightness shifts much more with IPS.

The white glow is definitely noticeable with any non A-TW IPS screen. It's definitely not "nearly TN-style", obviously the vertical shift of TN isn't replicated in any other panel type, and the horizontal shift is much more like MVA (all colors) than IPS (dark colors.) Really, it's just a matter of what annoys you more: colors going awry (*VA), contrast going to hell (IPS), or paying three times as much as the cheapest acceptable option (A-TW IPS.)

OK....

1. I'll be glad to defer to folks who actually know these technologies -- I can certainly tell you what it looks like to me, and try to provide pictures that will hopefully show what I see. That said, I envision "backlight leakage" as light "peeking out from the very edge of the panel," whereas what I'm seeing sure looks just like "ambient light reflecting off the screen. So, if that's not technically right, "OK," but that's sure what it looks like to me.

2. I'll definitely buy your description of the three technologies in your second paragraph, but I'd say that in my comparison here, the IPS is sure shifting far more in brightness than the PVA is shifting in color.

3. Per your last paragraph, the IPS contrast shift bugs me in the HP -- it's very noticeable. But I've been sitting in front of an S-PVA screen for about the past three years without noticing anything even minimally bothersome in the color -- and so far, I'd say the same with the Dell S-PVA. There is some minor stuff going on at extreme angles, but nothing I've ever noticed during "normal use."

Thanks for the explanations -- hopefully they're helping other folks as much as they have been for me!