[Retired] The LCD Thread

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squirrel9

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Mar 22, 2009
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Originally posted by: palladium
My report after viewing the image with my HP:

1. I didn't notice any glowing like your HP, but there certainly is a horizontal brightness shift like you and mmnno described. If I were to quantify it, I'll say it's around 10-15% of a TN vertical shift ( i have a TN next to me).

2. I certainly noticed the ambient light reflecting with my screen, although it could just be that I'm in a bright room

3. Contrary to most HPs, my HP is actually quite dark - I had to get the brightness up to 40 and the RGB to 251/235/242 ( TFTCentral settings) for me to be comfy.

4. The sky on my HP looks completely different from your HP and Dell - it is much darker ( I do get a somewhat similar image to your Dell if I dial up the brightness to 100%, but my eyes would get soar) . Did you use flash while capturing the screenshots of your Dell and HP?

And in reply:

1. Yes, that's about how I'd call it, too. I had a 24-inch TN in here a couple of weeks ago, so I'm pretty fresh with how all three look to me.

2. Again, if that's not really "ambient light," gosh, it sure looks like it to me. At the very least, it's a way to describe the effect that most folks could visualize.

3. Again, my HP was turned down quite a bit, as I described previously. I generally work in very subdued, indirect light.

4. First of all, "no flash" on the camera -- I'd never do that for subjects like this. The Dell was definitely a lot brighter than I would normally use, and the HP was really dark in comparison.

I've got things relatively stabilized now, and I'll try to get some shots with the two monitors adjusted to be much closer to each other, and with different subjects. By all means, let me know if you have any "requests" for what you'd like to see. I'll be glad to at least try to cook some up for you.

 

squirrel9

Member
Mar 22, 2009
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Originally posted by: Yikes2000
Are you sure the setting on your HP LP2475w is correct? It looks like the Contrast is dialed all the way down while Brightness is up too high. My Contrast is 80, Brightness 16. Please verify.

Well, I'm not entirely sure at this point -- I took the HP off of the monitor arm, and put the Dell on. So, the HP has been unhooked, unpowered, and lost its settings. But, I think the "brightness" you're talking about is this "reflectivity" I was talking about, or that "white glow" concept. "It's just not right." But, the settings were somewhere around 15 to 17 for brightness, and 50 to 80 for Contrast. I'm mainly unsure about where I had the Contrast. Also, the red/green/blue colors were set to 60% of the TFT Central settings, to cut the overall screen brightness down.
 

Winterpool

Senior member
Mar 1, 2008
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Fascinating report, Squirrel9. I've been following your posts since your attempt to get the Dell 2408WFP, and I'm of course very interested in direct comparisons of the 2408WFP and HP LP2475w, since these are the two affordable yet decent-quality 24-inch displays available right now. I do wonder if this could have begotten its own thread, since it could become a fairly involved case study of PVA v IPS.

I'll be very curious to see comparisons of the monitors after they've been calibrated a bit and with a range of source images. Monitor reviews often use an NEC IPS display as a touchstone for comparison; shame there isn't one to hand.
 

Yikes2000

Junior Member
Nov 20, 2006
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Originally posted by: squirrel9But, the settings were somewhere around 15 to 17 for brightness, and 50 to 80 for Contrast. I'm mainly unsure about where I had the Contrast. Also, the red/green/blue colors were set to 60% of the TFT Central settings, to cut the overall screen brightness down.

Ah, there is your problem. If you're using the TFT Central color profile, then you need to set RGB to their setting too. To bring down the overall screen brightness, decrease Brightness, but note that your color will no longer be accurate.

Also, be sure to use a color-aware program to display the test image.
 

squirrel9

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Mar 22, 2009
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Originally posted by: Yikes2000
Ah, there is your problem. If you're using the TFT Central color profile, then you need to set RGB to their setting too. To bring down the overall screen brightness, decrease Brightness, but note that your color will no longer be accurate.

Also, be sure to use a color-aware program to display the test image.

Well, wrong-o, wrong-o, from my perspective.

If I'm working outside in blazing sunlight, I might need the brightness that the TFT Central settings would provide. We went through some of this a few pages ago, but since most of these monitors have about 10 times the brightness you need if you use subdued lighting, you really can't use the "brightness" control to control "brightness." Heck, I can turn that thing down to zero, and I still won't even come close to the brightness I really need.

I've been going on the premise that you need to set the proper "black level" with brightness, and the proper "white level" with constrast, and then reducing the actual screen brightness by bringing the colors down to about half of their "full blast" settings.

In other words, the brightness of these monitors is so high that the settings of "black level" and "screen brightness" just aren't anywhere close to the range of the one, singular brightness control.

The other part of the whole thing is how I am not using any "color-aware" programs. But, it's pretty darn hard to find anything that isn't "wide gamut" anymore.

In the end, it's all "frustratingly difficult" to get anything that has decent brightness and contrast, without being retina-searingly bright. And I have been having one devil of a time with the Dell tonight -- I'll definitely say that the HP was one heck of a lot easier to get something decent set up. Right now, I'm playing with brightess at zero, contrast at 50, and the colors at 80% of the TFT Central colors. That's now giving me pretty good brightness and contrast for photos, without staring-at-the-sun brightness on super-fatiguing white backgrounds like we have here.

At any rate, I remain pretty solidly convinced that the key to avoiding throw-the-monitor-out-the-window super-fatiguing brightness is to ramp down the color controls. Then, you can finally start getting realistic black levels and white levels with brightness and contrast.

Oh, and I guess I should say, this must be dependent to an extent upon the graphics card; I know that the output of my Sony notebook's VGA output is much, MUCH different from the output of my desktop's graphics card.
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
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Originally posted by: squirrel9


OK....

1. I'll be glad to defer to folks who actually know these technologies -- I can certainly tell you what it looks like to me, and try to provide pictures that will hopefully show what I see. That said, I envision "backlight leakage" as light "peeking out from the very edge of the panel," whereas what I'm seeing sure looks just like "ambient light reflecting off the screen. So, if that's not technically right, "OK," but that's sure what it looks like to me.

2. I'll definitely buy your description of the three technologies in your second paragraph, but I'd say that in my comparison here, the IPS is sure shifting far more in brightness than the PVA is shifting in color.

3. Per your last paragraph, the IPS contrast shift bugs me in the HP -- it's very noticeable. But I've been sitting in front of an S-PVA screen for about the past three years without noticing anything even minimally bothersome in the color -- and so far, I'd say the same with the Dell S-PVA. There is some minor stuff going on at extreme angles, but nothing I've ever noticed during "normal use."

Thanks for the explanations -- hopefully they're helping other folks as much as they have been for me!

1. Ambient light is light from a source other than a monitor (usually having bounced off another object before hitting the monitor.) For instance, light produced from a lamp, or the sun.
The glow you see is from the backlight of the monitor itself, scattered to the side by either the crystals or the polarizer.

2. Definitely true, at least on black.

3. It's more an issue for artists and photographers, as when you're fine tuning an area of an image the color temperature will change depending on where your head is in relation to it. The IPS white glow doesn't cause that kind of shift, which was a major point of contention over Dell monitors back when they were up against the 23" ACD.

I can imagine it being irritating to a certain extent (I've never owned a non A-TW H-IPS monitor myself.) However, you're the first person I've ever seen who called out the IPS white glow as worse than PVA gamma shift, so perhaps the technology has changed since my limited experience with these types.

Also, I'm glad that Dell's demonic inventory game didn't dissuade you from trying their products. I'm waiting for them to ship me a GTX 295 for $380, and while I'm pretty sure Fidel Castro will become president of the USA before I get it, I will keep fighting for it until the day I die (or something better is released :laugh
 

squirrel9

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Mar 22, 2009
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Originally posted by: Winterpool
Fascinating report, Squirrel9. I've been following your posts since your attempt to get the Dell 2408WFP, and I'm of course very interested in direct comparisons of the 2408WFP and HP LP2475w, since these are the two affordable yet decent-quality 24-inch displays available right now. I do wonder if this could have begotten its own thread, since it could become a fairly involved case study of PVA v IPS.

I'll be very curious to see comparisons of the monitors after they've been calibrated a bit and with a range of source images. Monitor reviews often use an NEC IPS display as a touchstone for comparison; shame there isn't one to hand.

1. Yes, I could have put this in a new thread, but the new threads seem to scroll away very quickly -- I thought I'd reach a bit wider audience in here. There actually is a halfway-recent 2408 vs. LP2475 thread out there, somewhere.....

2. I'm not sure what I can fundamentally show in pictures, and I'll probably never get the two displays to "look the same" on normal programs and such -- they're just a bit different in what I can achieve to meet my low-light lowered-brightness needs. However, I've definitely seen them display pictures that have looked just about as "equivalent" as you could imagine.

And, I'll say that I've been able to get the HP set up to something I've liked a lot easier than I've been able to do with the Dell -- I'm still struggling with the Dell, that's for sure. Once I started dialing down the three colors on the HP, I quickly found a very natural setting that has worked very well. I'm actually still waffling over whether to ship the HP back or not, or to just "keep both of the dang things." Hopefully I'll come to a conclusion this weekend.
 

squirrel9

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Mar 22, 2009
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Originally posted by: mmnno
1. Ambient light is light from a source other than a monitor (usually having bounced off another object before hitting the monitor.) For instance, light produced from a lamp, or the sun.
The glow you see is from the backlight of the monitor itself, scattered to the side by either the crystals or the polarizer.

2. Definitely true, at least on black.

3. It's more an issue for artists and photographers, as when you're fine tuning an area of an image the color temperature will change depending on where your head is in relation to it. The IPS white glow doesn't cause that kind of shift, which was a major point of contention over Dell monitors back when they were up against the 23" ACD.

I can imagine it being irritating to a certain extent (I've never owned a non A-TW H-IPS monitor myself.) However, you're the first person I've ever seen who called out the IPS white glow as worse than PVA gamma shift, so perhaps the technology has changed since my limited experience with these types.

Also, I'm glad that Dell's demonic inventory game didn't dissuade you from trying their products. I'm waiting for them to ship me a GTX 295 for $380, and while I'm pretty sure Fidel Castro will become president of the USA before I get it, I will keep fighting for it until the day I die (or something better is released :laugh

OK, I think we're getting closer.....

1 and 2: We're on-target with those.

3. I think I'm finally seeing what you're saying. To go on to your next paragraph:

4. Here's the best way I can describe it. If I sit in front of the S-PVA Dell, and sway back-and-forth, "Stevie Wonder style," I can see what I believe you're talking about. Yes, there's a shift that's maybe one-quarter as much (or less) than the "difference in display quality" that I see in the H-IPS HP, when looking at a dark screen. But, if I don't sway back-and-forth, "Stevie Wonder style," I don't really see any difference as I work in front of the Dell screen. Oh, if I really, really look for it, I can discern just the tiniest little difference every now and then, but I think the bottom line boils down to "the quality of the image on the screen just doesn't 'change fundamentally.'"

In comparison, the H-IPS HP, when showing anything where the bottom part of the screen is something you'd consider "dark," displays this "white glow." All the time. It is absolutely, utterly noticeable, from every angle you might hold your head in relation to the monitor. It immediately brings to my mind, at least, the kind of thing you get with a TN screen. Of course, with TN, you'll see something like that, but all over the screen, no matter what's showing on the screen -- whereas with the H-IPS, it's just this "glow" when you've got something dark on the screen. But the bottom line is that "the quality of the image on the screen absolutely 'changes fundamentally.'"

So, that's how I'd call it -- a relatively small change that "you really have to look for in order to perceive it," versus a very substantial change that "changes the entire character of the image on the screen," that's impossible not to notice. That's so substantial that it makes you wonder why you took the effort and expense to buy the monitor over just popping down to Best Buy and getting a TN panel. And in my mind, I just want to get the very opposite of that "the nature of the image on the screen changes wildly" that you get with a TN screen. The H-IPS gets there maybe around "80%" compared to the TN, whereas the S-PVA gets there maybe around "95%" or better as compared to the TN.

Otherwise, these two monitors are very competent, and I'd even go so far to say that, so far, I've been happier with how well I've been able to set up the HP to meet my needs, compared to the Dell. But I find it just about entirely impossible to live with that "white glow" whenever the screen image gets a bit dark.
 

Jest

Junior Member
Sep 22, 2008
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Thank you for the incredibly detailed and informative thread. I do have a question or two though.

I see you recommend the BenQ G2400WD monitor. Do you know how it compares to the E2400HD and E2200HD? I am looking for a monitor that will mainly be used to play PS3/Xbox 360 games and to watch DVD/BluRays. I will occasionally hook it up as an external monitor to my notebook when I want to play some PC games or need extra screen realestate when coding. I'm really liking that I can get the E2200HD for $230 locally. I'm a college student so keeping the costs down is key to me. I sit very close, and I would be the only person using the monitor at one time, so viewing angle isn't incredibly important I'd say. So I'm basically looking for a 22-24" monitor thats good for gaming with a resolution of 1920x1080 or WUXGA with HDCP support. Is there something out there besides the E2200HD that I should be looking at, for under $300 CAD. Thanks in advance, eh! Cheers.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
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Originally posted by: Jest
Thank you for the incredibly detailed and informative thread. I do have a question or two though.

I see you recommend the BenQ G2400WD monitor. Do you know how it compares to the E2400HD and E2200HD? I am looking for a monitor that will mainly be used to play PS3/Xbox 360 games and to watch DVD/BluRays. I will occasionally hook it up as an external monitor to my notebook when I want to play some PC games or need extra screen realestate when coding. I'm really liking that I can get the E2200HD for $230 locally. I'm a college student so keeping the costs down is key to me. I sit very close, and I would be the only person using the monitor at one time, so viewing angle isn't incredibly important I'd say. So I'm basically looking for a 22-24" monitor thats good for gaming with a resolution of 1920x1080 or WUXGA with HDCP support. Is there something out there besides the E2200HD that I should be looking at, for under $300 CAD. Thanks in advance, eh! Cheers.

The E series are true HD 16:9 and perform similarly in image quality and response time. So if you are cutting costs then yeah the BenQs are the way to go. They have been great with scaling and inputting compared to other monitors.
 

squirrel9

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Mar 22, 2009
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Further update:

With quite a few hours spent with the Dell 2408WPF and the HP LP2475w on my desk, I've definitely decided upon which one will be the keeper. In the end, it was an easy choice to make.

It might not be what you expect, though: I've decided that the HP meets my needs far better than the Dell. I can definitely soldier on with the HP, but I just couldn't set up the Dell to achieve what I want to see.

Oh, you bet, "all things equal," I definitely prefer the Dell's S-PVA screen over the "white glowing" HP H-IPS screen. But, "all things sure weren't equal."

I'll show you some more pictures of dubious value, but it boils down to how I have some specific needs, and a very substantial "pre-conceived notion" of what I want to see on my monitor screen. So, bear that in mind, and let's move on:

Mainly, I work in extremely low light. If you're familiar with Ikea's "JANSJÖ" light, I usually work with one of these on, pointing upwards, like a teensy little torchiere lamp. Here it is:

http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10128734

I've got a second one, which I'll turn on if I need a bit more light. But that's generally it.

I also have a very low tolerance for monitor brightness. Back in the days of Windows 3.1, I decided that there was no way on earth I could sit there staring into the usual white screen, and I've been using some light-to-medium shade of grey for my Windows background, ever since. Here is an example:

Windows Screen 1

As with all of the pictures I'll be posting, the Dell is on the left, and the HP is on the right.

And, it's really hard to tell what's really going on in these pictures, but the bottom line is that the overall brightness of the HP is considerably less than that of the Dell. And that's my "problem" with the Dell -- I just couldn't get what I thought was a decent image on the Dell without it being about twice as bright as the HP. I think you can say that the HP in these images will look a bit "reddish," and the colors perhaps a bit "overcooked," but it's really because it's just a significant step "less bright" than the Dell, in every picture.

Here's another screen shot:

Windows Screen 2

In my low light situation, the HP is far "easier on the eyes" compared to the much-brighter Dell. And I've got the Dell just about as well dialed-in as I could ever get -- going lower than this just produced a dingy, low-contrast screen that looked even worse when viewing pictures on-screen. And we'll get to "pictures," later.

Here's one more "normal program" shot:

Windows Screen 3

I can see many folks saying, "Heck, I like the way the Dell looks, much better." And I wouldn't really disagree. In typical office usage, or basically any situation where the ambient light is quite a bit more than what I use, I'm sure the Dell would work out just fine. Of course, the HP can work just as well in such situations, too.

Let's take a look at a couple of test screens, if anyone might be interested. Let's just take a static blue screen:

Blue Screen

And, might as well look at a black screen:

Black Screen

You can JUST BARELY see some of that "white glow" from the HP on the right. I considered bumping this up in post-processing to emphasize the difference, but then decided against doing so -- this is what the camera captured. Perhaps "not a whole lot to phone home about."

Finally, let's have a look at some pictures:

Picture 1

As with all of these, the HP is going to look darker and perhaps over-saturated and reddish. But, "in person," it actually looked quite correct. And usually, the Dell was a bit less so.

Here's another:

Picture 2

The car's color doesn't look right in either monitor, in this shot. "In person," the HP was fine, but the Dell really wasn't correct at all. Of course, that can all be calibrated, but it's all part of "how I just couldn't get the Dell to do what I want" -- it was either too bright, or I couldn't get the colors right, or I couldn't get the contrast right, and/or combinations of all of the above. And I rather expect that "calibration" could get the colors right, but not without an overall screen brightness that would be several times brighter than what I could handle in my darkened room.

Picture 3

Again, the HP just looks reddish and too saturated. "In person," though, it looked "richer" than the Dell, which was kind of "brighter and a bit washed-out" in comparison. Again, the real difference here has plenty to do with the overall screen brightness from both monitors.

Picture 4

I guess what's telling here is the sky in the background -- the Dell looks a bit "washed out" compared to the HP. Also, the Dell usually showed that "wide gamut too-strong colors" quite a bit more than the HP did, in my non-color-managed applications.

Picture 5

Here's the original image from one of my previous messages. Now with the camera pretty much "where your head would be" in relation to working on either monitor, you really don't see that "white glow" from the HP.

It's probably not too important to give you my exact settings for each monitor -- essentially, both boiled down to brightness around 20, contrast around 80, and the three colors dialed down to about 60% of the TFT Central calibrated settings. Turning the colors down was the only key to getting the screen brightness down to a tolerable level, but that strategy definitely worked far better with the HP than it did with the Dell. Once I dialed down the colors, I quickly and easily got exactly what I wanted with the HP, but I spent hour after hour with the Dell, going through one extreme to the other, without really finding anything that really worked for me. It's like the HP just had a better range of brightness and contrast compared to the Dell, which allowed me to dial something in that I really liked.

But, I think my results probably aren't meaningful to a lot of other people -- if you work in brighter light, if you can handle a brighter monitor, then you should be able to set up the Dell just fine. And the HP should be very easy to set up, too.

Finally, let me post one more picture:

Stand Height

In the previous pictures, the Dell was raised up to match the height of the HP, which was as low as it could go on its stand. Here, the Dell has been lowered to its lowest position, which is substantially lower than the HP. The Dell can go VERY LOW on its stand -- its screen can be about two and a half inchesl lower than the HP will go on its stand. And, with these big 24-inch monitors, that extra two and a half inches might make a big difference on whether you can sit at a correct height in relation to the monitor. In every way, there's no doubt about it -- the Dell's stand is just world-class.

So, there you have my experiences. I really said it a few pages earlier, where I judged the HP as "competent." Though the pictures might not look quite like it, I'm really looking at a very natural screen image, with the overall brightness and contrast right where I want them, and with some very natural color. I'll never be happy with that "white glow," but at least the pictures in this message show that it really doesn't show up much at all in normal usage. So, I'll just relax about that, and enjoy the truly excellent image quality the HP can produce.
 

gorobei

Diamond Member
Jan 7, 2007
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little hint:
before you start monkeying around with monitor settings. adjust gamma in the display settings first.
 

squirrel9

Member
Mar 22, 2009
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Originally posted by: gorobei
little hint:
before you start monkeying around with monitor settings. adjust gamma in the display settings first.

In my experiences with these two monitors, the gamma was indeed among the settings I adjusted. However, I usually found adjusting it to be counter-productive -- every time I tried adjusting it, I always wound up putting it back to "default." Or, at least, suffice it to say that using it to reduce the overall screen brightness didn't really "work" as well as other controls did. In the end, I always left the display settings at "default," and made my changes with the monitor's controls....
 

Yikes2000

Junior Member
Nov 20, 2006
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Originally posted by: squirrel9
In my experiences with these two monitors, the gamma was indeed among the settings I adjusted. However, I usually found adjusting it to be counter-productive -- every time I tried adjusting it, I always wound up putting it back to "default." Or, at least, suffice it to say that using it to reduce the overall screen brightness didn't really "work" as well as other controls did. In the end, I always left the display settings at "default," and made my changes with the monitor's controls....

Sounds like you've spend many hours comparing the two monitors to get the colors you wanted. Perhaps you should invest in a colorimeter to calibrate the monitors? They are expensive, but you could always sell it on eBay after a few weeks to recoup the cost.
 

squirrel9

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Mar 22, 2009
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Originally posted by: Yikes2000
Sounds like you've spend many hours comparing the two monitors to get the colors you wanted. Perhaps you should invest in a colorimeter to calibrate the monitors? They are expensive, but you could always sell it on eBay after a few weeks to recoup the cost.

Oh, I have given that plenty of thought. But, the thinking generally went like this:

1. I'm not so worried about "color" -- I'm worried about proper levels of brightness and contrast, at a much-much-much-reduced overall brightness level than, say, the settings published on the TFT Central site. Given comments and reviews of colorimeters that I have seen, I'm not so sure that one would give me what I want -- a proper calibration at a lowered brightness level.

2. The real fact of the matter was how the HP just dialed right in, once I reduced the colors in order to reduce the overall brightness. I've really just reduced them to exactly 60% of TFT Central's R/G/B settings, and I'm really happy with the color accuracy. (And bear in mind that the pictures I posted a few posts ago really didn't do the HP justice at all -- I think that was probably mostly due to the "automatic white balance" in my camera. The HP really does't have that "reddish tint" you see in those pictures, at all.) But really, I've got brightness and contrast at TFT Central's numbers, the colors at 60%, and I was immediately very happy with it.

3. If I only had the Dell, I might have indeed gone for a colorimeter. But, I really couldn't get anywhere near the ballpark I was looking for, at least at the reduced brightness levels I wanted. I could probably be happy with the TFT Central settings, if only I worked in "normal office lighting." In the end, it was just an easy matter of going with the HP, and moving along with my life. Yes, I see a bit of that "white glow" every now and then, but the rest of the time, the HP truly is an exceptional monitor -- and I've come to appreciate that.

So, in the end, it was "no colorimeter necessary." I might have preferred the S-PVA screen technology, but otherwise, I always preferred the HP in every other way to the Dell.
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
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The ongoing deal on Doublesight DS-265w got me seriously consider if it's about time to jump on the H-IPS bandwagon. What worries me is lack of backlight control on this model. In case some of you are using this one already, please chime in and share your thoughts on that. On my diamondtron, stuff can get fairly bright with the "superbright" feature. While this might be a tad too bright for normal desktop use, my primary focus is watching video and gaming. I found superbright to be a welcome feature, so if "being overly bright to get the colors/contrast right" means about that bright, I wouldn't be so concerned.

Also, does anyone know what are the chances of getting A-TW polarizer with this monitor? Last I heard about it was a good bit of chance, but still a gamble.

between this Doublesight and the PX2611W, PX2611W got:

USB hub
better stand
HDMI input
more scaling options
better QC / customer support

With the doublesight though, you might get otherwise identical panel with A-TW polarizer if you are lucky. Am I on the right track?
 

xnknown

Junior Member
Apr 6, 2009
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hey guys, I'm looking for the best 24" monitor and I've got my choices down to three, the main thing is that I need the best overall monitor that doesn't require me to buy colorimeter and calibrate it

My choices are
BenQ G2400WD
Dell 2408wfp
HP LP 2475w

Please give me some advice on which one is best without any need for a colorimeter
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
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Originally posted by: konakona
The ongoing deal on Doublesight DS-265w got me seriously consider if it's about time to jump on the H-IPS bandwagon. What worries me is lack of backlight control on this model. In case some of you are using this one already, please chime in and share your thoughts on that. On my diamondtron, stuff can get fairly bright with the "superbright" feature. While this might be a tad too bright for normal desktop use, my primary focus is watching video and gaming. I found superbright to be a welcome feature, so if "being overly bright to get the colors/contrast right" means about that bright, I wouldn't be so concerned.

Also, does anyone know what are the chances of getting A-TW polarizer with this monitor? Last I heard about it was a good bit of chance, but still a gamble.

between this Doublesight and the PX2611W, PX2611W got:

USB hub
better stand
HDMI input
more scaling options
better QC / customer support

With the doublesight though, you might get otherwise identical panel with A-TW polarizer if you are lucky. Am I on the right track?

If movies and gaming are what you want, avoid the doublesight. You want a monitor that maximizes contrast ratio, and the 265W is going to be terrible on that front even at high brightness. A PVA panel would suit you better, as long as the stereoscopic effect doesn't bother you. Also, I rather doubt any CRT can approach the brightness of these panels. 50% brightness on these is like looking straight at a light bulb (that includes the Planar too, but the planar can go lower without adverse effects.)
 

Doctor W

Junior Member
Oct 22, 2004
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Originally posted by: squirrel9


Picture 5

Here's the original image from one of my previous messages. Now with the camera pretty much "where your head would be" in relation to working on either monitor, you really don't see that "white glow" from the HP.

squirrel,

For what it's worth, I loaded this image up in photoshop on one of my calibrated Lacie CRT's and the HP is much, much closer to what it actually looks like. The Dell looks like a digital vibrance control cranked all the way up or something, it's totally wrong.



 

squirrel9

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Mar 22, 2009
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0
Originally posted by: Doctor Wsquirrel,

For what it's worth, I loaded this image up in photoshop on one of my calibrated Lacie CRT's and the HP is much, much closer to what it actually looks like. The Dell looks like a digital vibrance control cranked all the way up or something, it's totally wrong.

That would echo my thoughts, closely.

I just set up the Dell in its new home -- with a friend who will appreciate it just fine, and won't be quite so critical about everything as I was. And it helped me put things into better perspective -- we are being very critical here. I may be "moaning" about the Dell, but the other 99% of people on the planet would likely be quite happy with it.

Suffice it to say that I think I've got the HP dialed in very nicely, but if I only had the Dell from the beginning, I probably would have wound up with a colorimeter in my efforts to tame it.
 

konakona

Diamond Member
May 6, 2004
6,285
1
0
Originally posted by: mmnno
Originally posted by: konakona
The ongoing deal on Doublesight DS-265w got me seriously consider if it's about time to jump on the H-IPS bandwagon. What worries me is lack of backlight control on this model. In case some of you are using this one already, please chime in and share your thoughts on that. On my diamondtron, stuff can get fairly bright with the "superbright" feature. While this might be a tad too bright for normal desktop use, my primary focus is watching video and gaming. I found superbright to be a welcome feature, so if "being overly bright to get the colors/contrast right" means about that bright, I wouldn't be so concerned.

Also, does anyone know what are the chances of getting A-TW polarizer with this monitor? Last I heard about it was a good bit of chance, but still a gamble.

between this Doublesight and the PX2611W, PX2611W got:

USB hub
better stand
HDMI input
more scaling options
better QC / customer support

With the doublesight though, you might get otherwise identical panel with A-TW polarizer if you are lucky. Am I on the right track?

If movies and gaming are what you want, avoid the doublesight. You want a monitor that maximizes contrast ratio, and the 265W is going to be terrible on that front even at high brightness. A PVA panel would suit you better, as long as the stereoscopic effect doesn't bother you. Also, I rather doubt any CRT can approach the brightness of these panels. 50% brightness on these is like looking straight at a light bulb (that includes the Planar too, but the planar can go lower without adverse effects.)

I see. With the talks of H-IPS being an improvement over S-IPS rivaling PVA panels in terms of contrast made me thinking it would be a better choice, oh well.

Since I am going to be the sole user of this monitor, I even thought about getting a TN or another P-MVA. Only about half of the games I play are FPS, mostly MMOPRG, visual novels and 2d fighters. Perhaps 2d fighters could be affected by input lag?

I care about colors first and foremost, so I wonder color shift on PVA panels is so bad as it made out to be? By color I mean not accuracy, but soft, natural colors. Contrast is indeed quite important, so I did think of researching a bit on PVA monitors before I pull the trigger.

Any suggestions for a good PVA 24-27'' then? No need for excessive amount of input options, I only need one DVI port, really. Perfectly fine without a usbhub, scaler is only needed if it works well. Many games I play are still 4:3, and having no option to get the proper aspect ratio is a bitch

I am not aware of currently available deals on S-PVA monitors, but let's say I want to stay at around $500 or less.

Hmm I wish someone who knows more about FP2141SB could comment on this. These monitors (AG) do get pretty damn bright with superbright on, if things get any brighter than this that could be a problem.
 

mmnno

Senior member
Jan 24, 2008
381
0
0
Originally posted by: konakona
I see. With the talks of H-IPS being an improvement over S-IPS rivaling PVA panels in terms of contrast made me thinking it would be a better choice, oh well.

Since I am going to be the sole user of this monitor, I even thought about getting a TN or another P-MVA. Only about half of the games I play are FPS, mostly MMOPRG, visual novels and 2d fighters. Perhaps 2d fighters could be affected by input lag?

I care about colors first and foremost, so I wonder color shift on PVA panels is so bad as it made out to be? By color I mean not accuracy, but soft, natural colors. Contrast is indeed quite important, so I did think of researching a bit on PVA monitors before I pull the trigger.

Any suggestions for a good PVA 24-27'' then? No need for excessive amount of input options, I only need one DVI port, really. Perfectly fine without a usbhub, scaler is only needed if it works well. Many games I play are still 4:3, and having no option to get the proper aspect ratio is a bitch

I am not aware of currently available deals on S-PVA monitors, but let's say I want to stay at around $500 or less.

Hmm I wish someone who knows more about FP2141SB could comment on this. These monitors (AG) do get pretty damn bright with superbright on, if things get any brighter than this that could be a problem.

I wasn't recommending PVA over IPS, I was recommending PVA over the 265W, as other IPS screens are more expensive and PVA ones are in the same range as the 265W.

The 265W does not have any backlight control. No matter what you do, the brightness of blacks stays the same, so turning down the brightness causes contrast to go to shit. Because the monitor is so ridiculously bright, leaving the brightness high to retain contrast ratio is only an option if you only work in direct sunlight or wear sunglasses (or have eyes made of diamond.)

I'm not sure what you mean by soft, natural colors. Any PVA monitor you buy new will be very wide-gamut, as is any (1920x1200) IPS monitor south of $1000. It's not much of an issue in games, but for movies it can be bad because skin tones tend to be pushed very far toward red. There's not really any alternative though, except sacrificing resolution and getting a 1080p TN or Dell's 22" IPS.
 

xtknight

Elite Member
Oct 15, 2004
12,974
0
71
Originally posted by: UzairH
Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: UzairH
Hi Xtknight and others here,

I am getting a display for the usual - gaming, movies, and general use. I had decided on the BenQ G2400, but now I see there is a 22" IPS display available, the Dell UltraSharp 2209WA, and in your gaming displays recommendation you put it above the G2400. I don't have experience with an IPS panel so I am uncertain what advantage the 2209WA would have over the G2400 in terms of colors and viewing angles. If you have seen both, what are your views on the differences? Are the color range, accuracy, and brightness noticably better on the Dell eIPS compared to the BenQ TN? One thing I really dislike is color banding, does the BenQ have that? What about viewing angle differences?

I don't think either has color banding. The main difference you would see is that the eIPS has much better viewing angles.

Where I am the 2209WA is 20% pricier than the G2400WA. And of course the G2400 is slightly larger than the 2209WA; so if there is little difference in image quality I will go with the BenQ.

Finally, there are several G2400 variants available; the G2400WD is 15% cheaper than the G2400WA. Are there any image quality and response time differences between them?

Thanks for the answers!

I don't know about the different G2400s. At this point I would suggest the Dell eIPS. It's a great value.

XTKNIGHT,

You rock dude, thanks for the answers! I am trying to convince myself to settle for the 22" eIPS, but am salivating a bit for the larger 24"+ LCDs from Dell and even the super (from the reviews) NEC WUXi series (gasp!).

The ONLY reason for even considering the G2400WD is that here in Denmark I can have it cheaper than it costs in USA, whereas the Dells and NECs are at least 25%, and up to 50%, more expensive than the US prices. But I will still go for one of the IPS panels, provided they do not lose much to the G2400 in gaming response time. From your experience with the Dell, HP, and NEC 24" and 25.5" panels (IPS as well as PVA), what is the effect of the reported lags of between 25ms to 40ms on gaming? My primary concern is that I playing simulation racing (rFactor), and don't want input lag.

Thanks in advance again!

I'm sorry that I missed your post in the sea of discussion about IPS vs PVA......

You might notice 2 frames vs 3 frames of input lag. If you are ONLY gaming the G2400WD would be a good choice but if not, I think the IPS panels' viewing angles are so much more convenient for just about everything else. TNs at that size are hard to look at except for gaming, unless you don't care.

And Dell's eIPS gives you low lag anyways. I would not suggest spending the money for the higher end IPS NECs since they have one more frame of lag and are very expensive. Dell's eIPS fits your ticket...
 
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