[Retired] The LCD Thread

[NTB]

Originally posted by: NTB

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: NTB
How bad is a glossy-style screen in an office environment? I've wanted a larger monitor at work for quite a while and I really like the HP w2207h that I just recently bought for home use - especially the fact that it can be rotated and used in portrait mode

And, while I'm thinking about it: my PC at work is a ~3-year old, Pentium4-based dell with built-in Intel graphics...would that be enough to drive a monitor like this?

Nathan

I'm not sure; I've never used a glossy display in an office environment. I assume the standard office is just fluorescent-lit from the ceiling. It really depends on a lot of things too like how picky you are. Personally I think I'd do fine in that environment with a glossy panel.

The HP w2408h is the obvious 24" glossy equivalent to what you have.

If your built-in Intel graphics provide a DVI port, then probably. If it only provides a VGA port, then probably not.

Boo on the graphics I checked this week, and my work PC only has VGA output. As for the monitor, I *was* looking at the 2408h until I found the 2207. The higher resolution in the 24" model would have been nice, but the price was a bit steep - I only paid ~$250 for the 22", while most places are asking $400+ for the 24".

Update (after having the screen for a couple months): Still love the screen, but I have noticed one big limitation, at least for photographers: this thing does not do skintones very well. Zoomed to fit the screen, the picture may look OK, but dithering rears it's head as you zoom in, and what *should* be a nice shade of peach or pink turns a rather sickly shade of green . Oh well - you get what you pay for, I guess.

 

[spacemanspliff1]

Asus VW266H needs to be put on the list. It is doing 1920x1200 at 75 hz with damn little lag. I went something crazy in cod2 Outlaw P server. Like 34-3 playing right in the thick of it. Normally you would die more playing that aggressive. Responsive panel for gaming.

 

[mrpotatochip]

-

 

[albovin]

Originally posted by: zod96
Just spent the last few hours comparing the Dell 2209WA and the LG L227WTG-PF next to each other. A friend and I were checking them out side by side. Well first, yes the Dell blows away the LG in view angles no doubt their. And the stand and the quality of the Lcd itself are better than the LG. But, when looking at the internet and text in general, the LG with its glossy screen looks much better, its sharper and easier to read. Also when viewing website the Dell has like a textured background to it when view websites. The LG is smooth as silk. Then we looked at pictures, and no matter how we setup the Dell the LG just looked much more vibrant and alive where the Dell looked dull and faded. In games they looked the same. Blacks looked darker on the LG as well. To me the only thing the dell beat the LG in was view angles and the stand. And I don't stand up when using the computer or sit to the left or right of it, I sit in front of it so to me view angles don't mean anything. I thought IPS panels were supposed to be much better color wise than a TN? No matter what picture we looked at the LG tn panel looked better, much more vibrant and alive. Is that the effect of the glossy screen? Because if it is I much much prefer a glossy screen to a matte one because they seem to make everything dull and faded. Ok now it time to get yelled at about how much better an IPS panel is to a TN I'm sorry I just don't see that, if fact I see pretty much the opposite....

http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1889q.jpg

http://img6.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dscn1890.jpg

The first one is the Dell and the second one is the LG

Thank you for excellent photos.

Well, nothing personal, but when people try to demonstrate how good TN monitors are, they usually involuntarily demonstrate the opposite, because facts speak for themselves and do not need comments.

You've made a number of correct observations and a number of absolutely wrong conclusions.
First of all, you need to take into consideration that you compare particular models of monitors - not panels, not purified samples of technologies.
Among IPS-based monitors you can find the best available monitors this industry can offer and also models that should be recycled at the same factory where they were made.
This does not change the fact that generally IPS products are superior to other solutions.

the Dell blows away the LG in view angles no doubt their

Correct.

the stand and the quality of the Lcd itself are better than the LG.

This is not related to panel technology directly but very possible.

when looking at the internet and text in general, the LG with its glossy screen looks much better, its sharper and easier to read

This is not related to panel technology.
There are glossy IPS and matte TNs.

Also when viewing website the Dell has like a textured background to it when view websites. The LG is smooth as silk

Although subjective and not the case for everyone, this could be partially true d/t relatively thicker interpixel interval in those IPS with large dot pitch (22" has the largest). Another reason is glossy finish.

Then we looked at pictures, and no matter how we setup the Dell the LG just looked much more vibrant and alive where the Dell looked dull and faded

Most likely you are talking about popping up colors of wide color gamut of the LG that is bad. The wider the gamut the more parrot-like, less accurate colors are.

Blacks looked darker on the LG as well

Glossy finish contributes to that. Technically measured, black may or may not be blacker(no measurements provided). Could be the same with lower ambient light.

No matter what picture we looked at the LG tn panel looked better, much more vibrant and alive

Absolutely wrong.

It's time to look at your photos.
Although we don't know what settings were on both monitors, we can use them for what we use screen photos - to see major issues.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8523/tnvseips.jpg

You can see the typical TN issue: darkened upper part and washed out bottom part.
Those are viewing anlges, my friend...

"No matter what picture we looked at the LG tn panel looked better..."
!?!?!?
According to your photo evidence, the picture on TN in direct comparison with e-IPS looks awful: severe sunburn on forehead, lifeless chin, dead eye with bloody vampire-like eyeball...

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/8527/tnvseips1.jpg

The picture is just killed by LG TN.

I thought IPS panels were supposed to be much better color wise than a TN?

Yes, they are MUCH better.

Ok now it time to get yelled at about how much better an IPS panel is to a TN

No, it's time to be quiet about TNs being the same as...

To me the only thing the dell beat the LG in was view angles

Yes, same to all of us. Viewing angles is #1 quality of a monitor.

I don't stand up when using the computer or sit to the left or right of it, I sit in front of it so to me view angles don't mean anything

We all sit on front of our monitors and viewing angles mean everything.
Due to viewing angles issue, the picture on TN monitors is distorted color-wise from ANY point of view.

Another test photo combined from two. This is a scene from 1080p movie.
28" TN displays the same issue, plus video frame vertical distortion.
http://img21.imageshack.us/img...tnfullhddistortion.jpg

This is why many people dislike TNs and never buy them if they want a quality picture.

 

[Mem]

You notice all the 24" 16:9 LCDs (1920x1080) are TN only,I'm surprised MVA panels are not popular with the manufacturers anymore,I always thought they were good all rounders .

 

[GTaudiophile]

I am in the same position as everyone else here. I want a 24" wide LCD that can do 1920x1080.

My priorities are...

1) Photo Editing
2) General Office/Web Use
3) Blu-Ray Movies/Gaming

I pretty much want a "really good" jack-of-all-trades LCD for $500-$650 I would say.

After looking at the OP, I too singled out the HP LP2475W and am also strongly looking at the DELL 2408FP.

Edit: I am coming from a DELL 2001FP and prefer matte to glossy.

 

[GTaudiophile]

This ViewSonic caught my attention:

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/ne...htm#viewsonic_vg2427wm

 

[zod96]

Thanks for the excellent reply albovin. I do see what you mean about the TN panel getting light then dark. I ended up keeping the Dell and I'm going to sell the LG.

 

[albovin]

Originally posted by: zod96
Thanks for the excellent reply albovin. I do see what you mean about the TN panel getting light then dark. I ended up keeping the Dell and I'm going to sell the LG.

You are welcome.
Again nothing personal.
Again thank you for great photos.
I will use them as reference pictures.
Good luck with your new monitor.

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: Popsikle
I a wondering if anyone knows anything about the newer LG 23 inch LCD ( LG W2353V-PF ) , in particular how does it compare with the #1 pick for gaming ( L227WTG-PF )? They are currently the same price on newegg.

Also, I am really reluctant to buy a LCD online, I would prefer to goto a store and buy it, is that a normal feeling? Do most people just buy them online now?

It is beyond me why the L227WTG-PF is the number one pick for gaming. It has been reviewed on multiple sites to have horrible uncorrectable color due to the wide gamut. Wide color gamut is ok for some people but to most it makes everything look super saturated. Yes the input lag is virtually 0 but a much better choice is the W2252TQ and hopefully the new W2353V-PF.

 

[zod96]

How is the Dell 2208? I know its a glossy screen and a TN panel but is it one of the better TN panels?

 

[rxblitzrx]

@OP: Hi XTKnight. I haven't been around in a while but my HP LP2065 SIPS is still going strong! Thank you again for the recommendation several years ago. I came back to ask you about RivaTuner. I'm running Windows 7 beta and I can't seem to get RivaTuner to work. Do you know if there's a newer version, or another program that will work?

edit** I got RivaTuner 2.24 to work, but it doesn't recognize Driver Level support. I had to tweak the color curve at the hardware level. Will this work?

 

[chilledinsanity]

I'm in the same boat as a lot of other people. I'm accustomed to good CRTs (on a dying Sony Trinitron now) and am trying to make the transition to LCDs. I watch all my movies on my computer, do a bunch of graphics and video editing, and am an avid gamer. I'm looking for a 24" for around $600 but will go higher if it's really worth it. I definitely don't want a TN monitor, but beyond that I'm at a loss. I was tempted by the HP LP2475W, but the wide gamut screenshot from here is scaring me off a little from it.

 

[GTaudiophile]

Originally posted by: chilledinsanity
I'm in the same boat as a lot of other people. I'm accustomed to good CRTs (on a dying Sony Trinitron now) and am trying to make the transition to LCDs. I watch all my movies on my computer, do a bunch of graphics and video editing, and am an avid gamer. I'm looking for a 24" for around $600 but will go higher if it's really worth it. I definitely don't want a TN monitor, but beyond that I'm at a loss. I was tempted by the HP LP2475W, but the wide gamut screenshot from here is scaring me off a little from it.

I guess no one has any definite answers for us...

 

[RickJ5]

Since no one is replying I'll give my thoughts on wide gamut monitors. I bought a Dell 2408WFP about a week ago. Overall I like the monitor and I think it's a keeper. I haven't seen any dead pixels so far and I don't think it has any. I'm using it with a VGA connection at 800 x 600 in Fill mode. The text on this monitor is just amazingly readable. I don't have a colorimeter to calibrate it and I can't say I want to go out and spend $150 to $200 to get one that will work right on a wide gamut monitor. So, what I did was search the web and find some settings that other people have used on the Dell 2408WFP. Yes, I do know that each monitor is different and the specs I found might not be applicable for my monitor. The specs I ended up using were 8 for brightness, contrast left at 50, red at 96, green at 92, and blue at 100. I got this monitor to replace a NEC 19" CRT that was starting to get darker. I mention that because this monitor is really bright compared to the NEC. I suspect a little of it seeming bright is due to my NEC getting dark, but it also does seem really bright compared to the other CRT I still have left that's working. As far as the wide gamut part I'd have to say with the settings I'm using most pictures and a TV show I watched looked really good. I do play a little solitaire once in a while and I will say the reds on the hearts and diamonds are pretty much eye searing bright. I also looked through a Walgreens ad online the other day and the reds there were also really intense. I've tried to play with the settings myself a little and all I've done is convince myself that I don't know how to calibrate the monitor without some help. If I were to invest in a colorimeter maybe I could get the reds down to a more manageable level. I don't want to leave anyone with the wrong impression though. Overall I really like this monitor. On the plus side, it really looks huge running it at 800 x 600 in fill mode compared to my 19" CRT, text is just phenominal and there are no problems running it at 800 x 600 instead of it's native resolution, I played a little Command & Conquer Generals on it and I don't seem to be having any input lag problems, and last the screen appears to be free of any defects such as dead pixels. On the con side the monitor is just a hair lower on the right side than the left side(I found that is a common problem with it and there is a fix involving playing with the stand, but it's not bothersome enough that I'm going to screw with the stand on my one week old monitor), and the only other con as far as I can see is the reds can be really intense at times. As far as the reds being intense the only place I can say they really bothered me was in solitaire and reading the Walgreens ad. I wanted a 24" wide screen for the 1920 x 1200 resolution so I could play blu ray in full HD. I also wanted a little better monitor since I use my computer a lot and I figure I'll have this monitor for years. That pretty much meant I didn't want a TN screen. That pretty much left me with the Dell or the HP LP2475w. The Dell was cheaper, I caught it $150 off with free shipping and I used a 10% off coupon for a total price of $477 and change. The HP was I think going to run $537 or 8 at CDW plus tax. The Dell had a premium panel guarantee, the HP didn't. The Dell I think I could have returned if I didn't like it. The HP I could probably have returned for a new one or for credit, but not for a cash refund. The color uniformity issues on the HP scared me and the Dell and the HP have the same input lag listed on the second post in the thread. I don't see any color uniformity issues on the Dell. Does the red bother me on the Dell, yes a little. Do I still think I made the right choice, yes I do. Now, if I start making some money I may go ahead and get the HP for my other computer and decide which I like better and put the one I like best on my main computer upstairs. Knowing what I know now would I buy the Dell again. I'd say yes I would. Unless you want to spend crazy money for the NEC or go with a TN screen the HP and the Dell are pretty much the best choices for a better quality monitor at a reasonable price. Hope that helps some of you decide.

 

[chilledinsanity]

RickJ5: Thanks for your feedback. One thing I'm confused about however is you say the Dell and the HP have the same input lag. According to this review, it says otherwise. It makes out the HP model to be one of the better 24" monitors for input lag and the Dell as one of the worst they've tested in that respect.

 

[RickJ5]

Originally posted by: chilledinsanity
RickJ5: Thanks for your feedback. One thing I'm confused about however is you say the Dell and the HP have the same input lag. According to this review, it says otherwise. It makes out the HP model to be one of the better 24" monitors for input lag and the Dell as one of the worst they've tested in that respect.

I'm refering to the second post on this thread where they give the recommendations. Both the Dell and the HP are listed as having an input lag of 33 ms.

 

[RickJ5]

Originally posted by: chilledinsanity
RickJ5: Thanks for your feedback. One thing I'm confused about however is you say the Dell and the HP have the same input lag. According to this review, it says otherwise. It makes out the HP model to be one of the better 24" monitors for input lag and the Dell as one of the worst they've tested in that respect.

I had seen the review you mentioned before, but I took another look at it. He says in the review that he tested an A00 revision of the monitor. From what I have read the A01 revision of the monitor reduced the input lag. I actually got an A02 revision when I bought mine about a week ago.

 

[DaveLessnau]

As of 0700 hrs (Central time), 04/30/09, Dell is running a $60 off special on the 2209WA:

http://accessories.us.dell.com...=en&cs=04&sku=320-7825

 

[Winterpool]

GT, Chilled, if you do any graphics and video editing, then you almost certainly should get a decent PVA or IPS panel, and you will pay $450+ for it. And if you are concerned about input lag, then you may feel safer going with the IPS panel, despite the improvments in later 2408WFP revisions. That essentially leaves a single choice at 24 inches: the HP LP2475w, which is down to $530ish including postage at CostCentral and Provantage (they're in different states, so you might make your choice based on your tax liability). PVAs often have better contrast, which might improve movie-viewing (most LCD TVs are PVA), but the viewing angles on IPS might make the difference if you're lying back in bed, watching the monitor on your desk.

Like Chilled, I used (and am still using) a Sony Trinitron long past its prime. CRT adherents will tell you that neither LCD nor plasma can match CRT yet, and in my experience it's safe to say that's true (though a good plasma is mighty fine looking, as I've learnt from my Pioneer KURO ...). Almost everyone agrees that the NEC H-IPS panels are the all-around best displays, but they cost over a thousand dollars. How much are you willing to compromise visual quality to save money?

If it weren't for the wide colour gamut (and, I must admit, the nastiness of HP's aesthetic design), I think I'd have purchased the LP2475w by now. But a part of me wonders if I shouldn't be much more satisfied (albeit much more impoverished) with the NEC LCD2490WUXi. The user reviews on the Hard|Forum are very compelling. I'm essentially waiting to see what happens to my economic prospects (and perhaps for a larger sRGB e-IPS panel). If my finances look good towards the autumn, I think I might plump for the NEC after all.

 

[Paladin]

GT, Chilled, Winterpool,
In all honesty, it really should be a no brainer on getting the HP 2475. It was the one component on my new build that gave me that 'wow' factor. It's absolutely gorgeous. Any of the red saturation can be minimaized through OSD changes. I can't tell of any input lag at all, playing FarCry2, BF2, UT.... The price has dropped nicely on it.

Not sure what's meant on the 'nastiness of HP's aesthetic design', I think it looks fantastic. It also has all the inputs you'll ever need....

 

[Winterpool]

My aesthetic reservations are mainly to do with the HP's stand: it's got an odd base (it looks rather like something you'd brand livestock with) and its silver finish looks glaringly out of place amidst the general black of the monitor. I'm not thrilled with the HP logo on the bezel either, but that's less of a concern than the stand. TFT Central's review observed that some 'may find the stand a little bulky and unattractive', and I've rarely found a reviewer who felt the stand was a virtue.

That said, I must admit that my monitor stands are generally obscured by various papers and such. And this could be my opportunity to try out a third-party stand. All the major reviews of the monitor are extremely positive, and I suppose if I knew what I were doing, I could compensate for the wide gamut (am gradually working my way through the Hard|Forum thread to see how painful calibration might be). And of course this display is half the price of the NEC LCD2490WUXi. If the price keeps falling, I may have to pull the trigger somewhere under $500.

Finally, I should point out to anyone like me who would use this as a TV-substitute in a bedroom, the array of input ports on the LP2475w must be unrivalled by any other IPS display: everything from DisplayPort to component video.

 

[chilledinsanity]

Winterpool: That's helpful that you're also coming from the CRT perspective. Thankfully I couldn't care less about the appearance of the stand, just the screen. Have you had a chance to look at any of these monitors?

KevinC: Well I guess my question is despite the "wow" factor, would you consider the HP2475 a downgrade in terms of color compared to a good CRT? While I love vibrant colors, I hate the oversaturation I see on some monitors; like a picture of grass in the sun becoming neon green, or simply losing the ability to see subtle shading. I don't do any prints, so I'm not absolute color freak, but my biggest fear is looking at images I'm familiar with and seeing a noticeable loss of the ability to display subtle shades.

 

[zod96]

Would you guys keep a refurbed dell 2209WA that you paided $190 for out the door with no problems at all, or would you buy new and get the 3 year warranty for about $40-50 more?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: spacemanspliff1
Asus VW266H needs to be put on the list. It is doing 1920x1200 at 75 hz with damn little lag. I went something crazy in cod2 Outlaw P server. Like 34-3 playing right in the thick of it. Normally you would die more playing that aggressive. Responsive panel for gaming.

Interesting. I will consider it.

Originally posted by: mrpotatochip
Hmm guys I have a few models in mind : Samsung T240 (not HD), DELL WFP2408(A01) , Samsung 2493 & BenQ G2400WD. I've been looking into the 1:1 pixel mapping aspect and I read that Samsung T240 and Samsung 2493 do not have support it. Does it only affect people who play XBOX360 and PS3 on their monitors?(I don't play either of those though) Is it really important to have 1:1 pixel mapping(does it affect pc games/movies etc) Eg: If I set lower resolution will it be choppy in games or does it scale perfectly with black bars? I read a lot of good reviews about T240 how does it compare to G2400WD in terms of gaming and movies? How would you rank T240 on the list of monitors for hardcore gaming/multimedia?

Most video cards can do 1:1 so having it on the monitor is not crucial unless you are hooking up external multimedia devices.

The T240 is a fairly capable monitor but it lacks overdrive. That means its response time is rather slow.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articl...y/samsung-topaz_9.html

I wouldn't recommend it for gaming at all but it's fine for some multimedia. Where exactly it lies in the list is really a personal opinion.

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I am in the same position as everyone else here. I want a 24" wide LCD that can do 1920x1080.

My priorities are...

1) Photo Editing
2) General Office/Web Use
3) Blu-Ray Movies/Gaming

I pretty much want a "really good" jack-of-all-trades LCD for $500-$650 I would say.

After looking at the OP, I too singled out the HP LP2475W and am also strongly looking at the DELL 2408FP.

Edit: I am coming from a DELL 2001FP and prefer matte to glossy.

The HP LP2475w is pretty much your perfect choice since you're photo editing. The 2408's viewing angles won't be quite as good.