[Retired] The LCD Thread

[zod96]

Ops I double posted..I also here is a 20% of coupon so now the u2410 is only $479

?D1GJGKRQK0NFP

 

[albovin]

xtknight,

I appreciate the insight but 1920x1080 has been a standard before 1920x1200.

No, it has never been.

That's what we study history for. This knowledge helps us understand the present and manage the future.

It's a common mistake to mix up HDTV video standard with LCD monitor resolution.
Those are two different operas.
"Full HD"="1080p" is related to the video content.
LCD resolution is related to the screen on which the content is displayed.
These two things are not the same and have never been so.
Full HD video standard parameters happened to to include 1920x1080 resolution.
It happened years ago. So 1920x1080 has been a standard for a long time but for movies, not for LCD monitors.

Now about monitors.
1600x1200 4:3 has been standard since 2003 (at least) involving all major brands and all 3 technologies (IPS,*VA,TN)
Probably Sony and Apple pioneered 1920x1200 wide screen standard about the same time with 23" true 16:10 IPS. Then this standard quickly covered all brands and technologies as well.
So, in terms of modern slang, 1920x1200 true 16:10 monitors have been "Full HD" for about 6 years already. In computer world it's equal to 2 or 3 generations.

Recently the manufacturers have decided to cut panels to make more money.
How much to cut off?
They stopped at the minimal size that can accomodate Full HD content. So 1920x120 portion was cut off, living us with 1920x1080.
The next is rather informal but a good "simple" definition of this procedure I've met in the internet:
"1920x1080 = castrated 1920x1200".

And the final touch: sticking sweet "Full HD" label to the "new" product to make cropping look like an improvement. The art of marketing.

1920x1200 is a strange PC bastardization of it, probably done because of LCD mother glass sizes or something like that?

"Bastardization" of 1920x1080 to get 1920x1200 techically is not possible, because 1920x1080 LCD monitors appeared many years later than 1920x1200 by the way of "castration" of 1920x1200.
Years ago 1920x1200 became a 1600x1200 wide screen derivative.
20" 4:3 became 23" 16:10 (actually 20"Wide)
21" 4:3 became 24" 16:10 (actually 21'Wide)

Nobody's going to deny 1920x1080 is smaller

Absolutely correct (as far as informed people are concerned) because vertical resolution is defining factor.
And the classification has to be very clear about it.
Why?
Because of "diagonal trick".
I believe, 20" was the first trick (21" was little later).
Smaller 1680x1050 was presented as "20"W" due to diagonal measurement trick.
In fact it was just 17"Wide.

1920x1080 has definitely lower rank in terms of size and resolution than comparable true 1920x1200.

You say that nobody is going to deny obvious facts?
How about those with marketing pasta hanging on their ears?
Knowledge deficit can be easily "compensated" with marketing pasta. In the worst cases we get 16:9 fanatics.

In fact I'd say 1920x1080 increases its ability to show media.

I prefer to pretend that I have not read that.:brokenheart:
By no means cropped 1920x1080 increases anything in comparison with true 1920x1200.
Vertical resolution!
World's media #1 is...?
Internet!
This media is in front of my eyes on 16:9 screen right now.
My media is cropped by about 15%!
More scrolling. Less space to work with multiple windows.
Yesterday I had to make two PrintScreens and then work on putting them together just because of the lack of vertical resolution on 16:9.
Photos=Media!
With cropped 16:9 - smaller photos or cropped resolution, annoying scrolling...
Video=Media!
95% of my home video is still 4:3.
Again we need higher vertical resolution to get larger video format on 1920x1200 both for watching and editing.

We don't need black bars....Why malignant pasta again?
Most of movies are wide screen that means black bars on both 16:9 and 16:10.
In some cases black bars do exist on 16:10 and.... let it be the worst we see in our life.
Best regards.

 

[zod96]

I got a chance to check out my friends U2410 he just got it Friday. I didn't even know he ordered one. Any its a very nice monitor. Excellent view angles. But it does have that same white glow when viewing from the sides and it also has that dirty grainy feel to it when viewing web pages. I was thinking about returning my doublesight monitor and getting the U2410, but after seeing it in person I like the doublesight better. I think if the U2410 had aw-polarization on the screen I would have probably got that over the doublesight. But I can definitely tell a monitor screen that has it and one that doesn't now.

 

[Ravenshadow]

Has anyone heard anything about the LG 120hz lcd panel being rolled out? http://www.displayblog.com/200...0hz-lcd-monitor-panel/
I'm wondering 1. Will it ever be released? 2. Is it 1920 x 1200? 3. Is it IPS (is that even possible?)? 4. Is it LED back-lit?

I'm on the fence between getting the U2410 or waiting for the U2710 to come out and I'm thinking maybe this LG 120hz panel will be in the U2710. Any thoughts?

 

[xtknight]

prad did a review on the F2380 (German): http://www.prad.de/new/monitor...-f2380.html#Einleitung

Final result: fair

 

[Mr Vain]

Hello All

Very informative thread great work Xtknight and everyone else that?s contributed.

I'm looking for a gaming and video monitor like many here.
Going thru your recommendations section I can only get a few of the monitors in that list, due to availability where I live.

How would you rate this BenQ G2411HD that is available to me compared to the BenQ G2400WD that is number 4 on you gamming monitors recommendations list but is not available to me from the below linked specs?

BenQ G2400WD
http://benq.com/products/LCD/?...23&page=specifications

BenQ G2411HD
http://www.benq.com.au/product...51&page=specifications

Review
http://www.prad.de/en/monitore...11hd.html#Introduction

Many Thanks

 

[j0j081]

How are the ASUS VH236H, VK246H, VK266H models you listed quality wise? They seem to have a lot of positive feedback on newegg but the prices are so low I have a hard time believing they are decent besides perhaps for really low input lag gaming. I am worried about the colors for everyday desktop use.

 

[mejobloggs]

Originally posted by: albovinStuff about 1920x1200, 1920,1080, full hd etc

Very informative post thanks. I get so frustrated with all the hype about 1080p and 'full hd' being the latest and greatest in high resolution, when it's actually less

I would never consider getting a 1920x1080 monitor, and am finding it really hard to get a decent 1920x1200

I would very much love to get a BenQ G2400WD, but they are unavailable

 

[Kaido]

How's this new Dell 24" IPS for $599 look?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/0...out-for-599-us-retail/

Dell 24-inch UltraSharp U2410 professional monitor: "The IPS-panel features a 1920 x 1200 pixel resolution, 6-ms response, 178-degree viewing angles, 1000:1 typical contrast, and 12-bit internal processing (1.07 billion colors), and 96% AdobeRGB and 100% of sRGB color space coverage. Connectivity options are vast with jacks for DisplayPort, DVI, HDMI, component, composite, and VGA. That's a lot of rig for $599."

 

[bcowdery]

I'm starting a new job in the next week that has me exclusively working from home, which means that I need to replace my old CRTs and get something that won't give me a massive headache after 8 hours.

I'm a web developer/programmer by trade, but I do a fair bit of web design on the side (probably an extra 10-15 hours a week) so I need a monitor with excellent sRGB color representation that can still display text clearly. Since I'll be working from home and not restricted to the normal 9-5 daily grind, it's a safe bet that I'll be putting in hours at night - and I know that some monitors suffer in the dark due to gamma/brightness problems.

I do play games, but this is a secondary concern. frankly anything with a ~10ms or better lag time will meet my needs here...

My price range falls between $200-700 (USD), and I'd prefer a at least a 22" screen. Anyone have any suggestions?

I've got a shortlist of monitors going - right now I'm leaning towards getting 2 Dell 2209wa's, but I've noticed a fair amount of posts on the Hforum complaining about excessive brightness and strange buzzing noises. Has anyone experienced this and should I be concerned?


Shortlist:

1. HP LP2475w - i think the wide gamut might be a bad idea in my case.
   Dell U2410
   Dell 2209wa
   Samsung 245T
   Samsung F2380

Thank's in advance for your advice.

 

[Gatss]

I need some help. I turned to this thread a couple of years ago when I was in the market for a new monitor. The information I received from xtknight and the other members that follow this thread was invaluable. I purchased the Viewsonic VX2435wm and I loved it. The MVA panel, the decent response times for gaming, and the color quality for web design. Unfortunately the monitor died on me a month ago and I had to send it back to Viewsonic for what I thought was going to be repair. Instead it turns out that they are now going to send me a replacement monitor. This would be good news except that Viewsonic no longer puts any MVA, PVA or equivalent panels into their monitors. I pretty much have to settle for a TN monitor as a replacement from them. My question is, what monitor from Viewsonic should I request from them? My preference is to keep as many good things about the VX2435wm as I can since I have to sacrifice the panel type.

My list would include:

1900x1200 resolution
At least 24 inches or bigger
Low input lag for gaming
Decent Color Quality for web design

Out of the products that I have researched on their website I have only found one potential replacement and that is the VX2640w. I have read that it is an energy hog though. I I would really appreciate any comments on this monitor or other suggestions.

Thank you

 

[looper]

After being a regular visitor here, I bought the Dell U2410. Due to arrive tomm, Friday the 18th.

I can post my general impressions if it helps anyone. I'm an older guy, and a computer home hobbyist, who plays 'FPS' games w/ my son and just general web-surfing, etc. No color-critical work. I just wanted a bigger and better monitor than I had.

 

[Krynis]

OK so pretty sure this is the right spot to ask this.
My mother recently gave me This monitor and for the last 4 days I've had a heck of a time getting the color/contrast/brightness right on it.

tried many programs and spent alot of time (with the programs off) trying to correct it with the monitors settings but no luck.

Finally last night I remembered Rivatuner (which I already use for fan control on my 3870s fan control) actually has some color options and after about 10 minutes I actually got it to a point where I am reasonably happy, it was kind of magical.

Magical until I tried to run a game and RivaTuner did not override the games own settings and was right back at square one, I've tried it with a few games and had the same problem, what I would love is a suggestion on how to proceed with this monitor maybe a way of enforcing the profile I created in RivaTuner?

Here is a list of the games I tried and how they faired.

World of Warcraft: kept Riva settings in window mode but not in fullscreen
D&D online: Did not keep riva settings in window or full.
Need for Speed Shift: kept riva settings in window but not in fullscreen

I don't have much else installed atm to test.

 

[byteman99]

i was looking into getting the nvidia 3d vision monitor but i dont like that its a 22 inch monitor. Dont they make any that are 24 inch and 3d ready that work good with 3d?

 

[looper]

Received the Dell U2410f today. WOW. Quite impressed so far. Need to reduce the brightness... I see no issues w/ dead pixels. I'll keep you posted.

Has anyone seen posts by folks who have this monitor...wondering how they set up the contrast/brightness. Please let me know.

 

[Mem]

Originally posted by: j0j081
How are the ASUS VH236H, VK246H, VK266H models you listed quality wise? They seem to have a lot of positive feedback on newegg but the prices are so low I have a hard time believing they are decent besides perhaps for really low input lag gaming. I am worried about the colors for everyday desktop use.

I'm using a VW246H Asus 24" montior(same as VK model but without webcam) ,can't compain about colours which are very good for a TN panel IMHO,as to gaming well excellent is the only word I can use and yes very low input lag.


I have had mine for nearly 6 months now, still no dead pixels and very minimal backlight bleed .

 

[TMoney468]

Originally posted by: looper
Received the Dell U2410f today. WOW. Quite impressed so far. Need to reduce the brightness... I see no issues w/ dead pixels. I'll keep you posted.

Has anyone seen posts by folks who have this monitor...wondering how they set up the contrast/brightness. Please let me know.

Here's a good link to the thread over at HardForum:

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1441159

I actually got my monitor on Wed. of this week, and so far I'm really impressed with it. I don't seem to have any problems with dead/stuck pixels, and the backlight bleeding isn't really noticeable to me.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: j0j081
How are the ASUS VH236H, VK246H, VK266H models you listed quality wise? They seem to have a lot of positive feedback on newegg but the prices are so low I have a hard time believing they are decent besides perhaps for really low input lag gaming. I am worried about the colors for everyday desktop use.

They are actually quite good. I don't think you should be worried, but of course if you are you should not go for *any* TN panel, rather a VA or IPS.

Originally posted by: Kaido
How's this new Dell 24" IPS for $599 look?

http://www.engadget.com/2009/0...out-for-599-us-retail/

Dell 24-inch UltraSharp U2410 professional monitor: "The IPS-panel features a 1920 x 1200 pixel resolution, 6-ms response, 178-degree viewing angles, 1000:1 typical contrast, and 12-bit internal processing (1.07 billion colors), and 96% AdobeRGB and 100% of sRGB color space coverage. Connectivity options are vast with jacks for DisplayPort, DVI, HDMI, component, composite, and VGA. That's a lot of rig for $599."

Looks great. After some positive reviews I will recommend it.

Originally posted by: bcowdery
I'm starting a new job in the next week that has me exclusively working from home, which means that I need to replace my old CRTs and get something that won't give me a massive headache after 8 hours.

I'm a web developer/programmer by trade, but I do a fair bit of web design on the side (probably an extra 10-15 hours a week) so I need a monitor with excellent sRGB color representation that can still display text clearly. Since I'll be working from home and not restricted to the normal 9-5 daily grind, it's a safe bet that I'll be putting in hours at night - and I know that some monitors suffer in the dark due to gamma/brightness problems.

I do play games, but this is a secondary concern. frankly anything with a ~10ms or better lag time will meet my needs here...

My price range falls between $200-700 (USD), and I'd prefer a at least a 22" screen. Anyone have any suggestions?

I've got a shortlist of monitors going - right now I'm leaning towards getting 2 Dell 2209wa's, but I've noticed a fair amount of posts on the Hforum complaining about excessive brightness and strange buzzing noises. Has anyone experienced this and should I be concerned?


Shortlist:

1. HP LP2475w - i think the wide gamut might be a bad idea in my case.
   Dell U2410
   Dell 2209wa
   Samsung 245T
   Samsung F2380

Thank's in advance for your advice.

I can't vouch yes or no for the 2209WA issues but the U2410 looks like a promising monitor. I don't know what its lag will be, but IPS panels have less lag than VAs in almost every case. Frankly I think 32ms input lag will be fine for you.

BTW, the 245T and U2410 are also wide gamut.

Due to the wide gamut issue, you can use the U2410 with a color profile in Firefox and Photoshop, but that can be annoying. You may try the Samsung F2380 but the 2209WA or two of them looks like the best option for you right now.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Luddite
xtknight, what exactly does the A-TW polarizer do for the panel. Does it keep the colors normal at wide viewing angles? How important a feature is it? Does the absence of an A-TW polarizer automatically mean white glow?

I'm trying to decide between the new NEC 2490 and the old one.

On Hardforum there is a current discussion on the new Dell U2410. Many have observed a really bad case of white glow on the new Dell, as well as the grainy-sparkly finish on the screen (supposedly similar to HP2475W).

Sorry for the late response...

A-TW reduces white glow on black but replaces it with slight green and purple tinging.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: rumnyc
Are there any good 24" 1920x1200 monitors with built in webcam and speakers? the closest I am finding are dell monitors (looking at u2410) with the sound bar (ax510) or HP w2448hc with webcam. there is ASUS VK246H with webcam and speakers--is it any good?

I do occasional gaming, but my wife uses the monitor for hours during the day for writing.

we have very limited desk space hate cable clutter so was looking for a combined solution.

The ASUS is a great choice for a gamer. It has very fast response time and it's a good deal.

It should suffice for writing too.

The U2410 will have better image quality, but it's also about twice as expensive. If it were me I'd get the U2410 but there haven't really been reviews of it yet to my knowledge. Haven't looked yet but it just recently became available in the US.

Originally posted by: Gatss
I need some help. I turned to this thread a couple of years ago when I was in the market for a new monitor. The information I received from xtknight and the other members that follow this thread was invaluable. I purchased the Viewsonic VX2435wm and I loved it. The MVA panel, the decent response times for gaming, and the color quality for web design. Unfortunately the monitor died on me a month ago and I had to send it back to Viewsonic for what I thought was going to be repair. Instead it turns out that they are now going to send me a replacement monitor. This would be good news except that Viewsonic no longer puts any MVA, PVA or equivalent panels into their monitors. I pretty much have to settle for a TN monitor as a replacement from them. My question is, what monitor from Viewsonic should I request from them? My preference is to keep as many good things about the VX2435wm as I can since I have to sacrifice the panel type.

My list would include:

1900x1200 resolution
At least 24 inches or bigger
Low input lag for gaming
Decent Color Quality for web design

Out of the products that I have researched on their website I have only found one potential replacement and that is the VX2640w. I have read that it is an energy hog though. I I would really appreciate any comments on this monitor or other suggestions.

Thank you

Unfortunately these days you're right...ViewSonic doesn't have any VA panels to my knowledge.

But the good news is that TN panels are fast for gaming.

This seems like the most obvious replacement: http://www.viewsonic.com/produ.../x-series/vx2433wm.htm

I can't find info on it, but it seems as though the VX2433wm is a regular sRGB LCD. OptiColor is not mentioned.

Getting the VX2640w or VP2650wb means you're going to have to use color profiles. However, the VX2433wm doesn't have overdrive, which means it won't be as fast. So I would get the VX2640w given no other option than ViewSonic. If they can get you a VP2650wb, that might be better than the X series, at least according to ViewSonic. Looks like the Pro series has more adjustments. X series has HDMI, Pro has DVI (doesn't list HDCP, but it may support it). It's up to you.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Krynis
OK so pretty sure this is the right spot to ask this.
My mother recently gave me This monitor and for the last 4 days I've had a heck of a time getting the color/contrast/brightness right on it.

tried many programs and spent alot of time (with the programs off) trying to correct it with the monitors settings but no luck.

Finally last night I remembered Rivatuner (which I already use for fan control on my 3870s fan control) actually has some color options and after about 10 minutes I actually got it to a point where I am reasonably happy, it was kind of magical.

Magical until I tried to run a game and RivaTuner did not override the games own settings and was right back at square one, I've tried it with a few games and had the same problem, what I would love is a suggestion on how to proceed with this monitor maybe a way of enforcing the profile I created in RivaTuner?

Here is a list of the games I tried and how they faired.

World of Warcraft: kept Riva settings in window mode but not in fullscreen
D&D online: Did not keep riva settings in window or full.
Need for Speed Shift: kept riva settings in window but not in fullscreen

I don't have much else installed atm to test.

At least with NVIDIA I believe you can force a profile while a game is loaded. If you cannot do that with ATI, you may be out of luck.

Originally posted by: byteman99
i was looking into getting the nvidia 3d vision monitor but i dont like that its a 22 inch monitor. Dont they make any that are 24 inch and 3d ready that work good with 3d?

Not that I know of, yet.

 

[xtknight]

Most people love the U2410 so far!

Some reports of less-than-optimal dithering (at least in sRGB) though. There is also a harsh anti-glare panel like many other Dells. Other than that, clear winner so far.

 

[looper]

Had it since yesterday afternoon...Played COD-WaW for about an hour today. WOW. Can you spell 'TOTAL IMMERSION'?!?

Was $479. w/ 20% coupon.

 

[bruinwar]

After lurking here for.. years?... I am getting close to replacing at least one of our 21" CRTs. My wife's is taking quite some time to warm up so I believe it's going.

Problem is I hesitate to mail order, although I am a good customer of Newegg & Newegg has always been good to me, but the LCD return policy makes me nervous. So I started to look around locally (not a lot of choices)

Best Buy (hate) has NO monitors with 1920x1200 & the kid thought I was nuts asking for it. It seems like maybe 1920x1200 is going away? Costco has a Vizio 25.5 at 1920x1200 that might be OK for $300. High gloss panel. It's no longer on their website though so I can't link it. Sam's is supposed to have a 25.5 Samsung for $350 but now we are getting close to the $400+ for the Dell everyone is recommending.

After searching around a bit more I find the Samsung was commented on here in this thread before & not recommended. The Vizio (VMM26?) was reviewed at
Extremetech Feb09 & was not recommended. I found a post or two here on this forum of people that liked it. It seems that it is a TN panel, decent response time but with some color issues. It's likely we could live with that.

It appears I am leaning towards the Vizio unless I can find some more choices locally. CompUSA & Circuit City are gone, I do have a Microcenter but again no 1920x1200 monitors, no Fry's, very little choices. Maybe I should reconsider mail order.

I guess I am just looking for thoughts, comments, & suggestions.
Thanks
Joe S.

 

[zod96]

I was going to get the U2410 until I saw a monitor with the A-TW polarizer screen treatment. I knew then I would much rather have a screen that has that then without. My friend got the U2410 and I have the doublesight 265. We had them mext to each other. The U2410 has that dirty grainy feel to the screen while my doublesight with the A-TW polarizer is smooth and clear. I just wish I could adjust the brightness on the doublesight :-( a little lower. This thing is like a supernova....