[Retired] The LCD Thread

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Teej
Hey guys...I'm totally confused about gamut and what it means to me. I'm looking to get a 24" 1920x1200 IPS display for working on (NOT graphics work) but also for watching movies/TV and playing the occasional game.

1) If I go with a wide gamut screen (is that 102% NTSC?), will movies and TV look oversaturated and will the colours be different from watching it on a really good TV?

Yes, it's going to be oversaturated because most of those match sRGB (including HDTV), not even 100% NTSC. I am not sure what wide gamut TVs do, really, but bottom line is that the picture isn't going to be accurate!

2) For my uses, am I better off with a 72% NTSC screen (and is that "standard gamut")?

Wide gamut doesn't really make movies or TV uncomfortable to watch. I would say go for whatever you can find. But, if you are a digital media editor or photo editor then that's when you should be paying attention. TV on a wide gamut LCD doesn't look bad, and most people probably even prefer it that way. It's just not going to be accurate, that's all.

3) What kind of colour gamut do most HD television screens have, or does it vary?

It varies but if they want to be accurate then they will be sRGB. If they want to "look vibrant" (i.e., for the store) they will have high contrast and wide gamut and not be calibrated properly.

4) If I am better off with a 72% NTSC, does all this mean that the only screen which optimally fits my needs is the NEC MultiSync LCD2490WUXi-BK, or have I missed something?

Thanks...it's been difficult figuring some of this stuff out.

I think you'll be just fine with a wide gamut screen. Most of us are. It's not going to be *that* off on *most* scenes. But there are a small group of people I think that just can't stand a wrong color tint here or there.

And wide gamut is the future. There are a couple media players out there with color management (mplayer w/ unofficial patch, and Media Player Classic with a shader).

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Tuffrabbit
LCD's for TV viewing have progressed from 60Hz to 120Hz and now to 240Hz refresh rates ? What about computer monitors ? Anyone have any input about this ?

Yes, some monitors have implemented it. I'm not sure if any are still for sale, but I know at least the Samsung 245T and FP241WZ had it.

And the Samsung 2233rz is true 120 Hz.

It is mostly to reduce perceived response time. But the "fake 120 Hz" methods blank the screen and simply double the frames.

 

[Kaido]

Hey xtknight - dual 25" NEC's or dual 24" Dell SIP's for photo/color/layout work?

 

[Itdbclos]

Will any of the 120Hz LCD monitors show more than 60fps in a computer game? My 120hz LCD tv just creates its own frame in between video's 60fps, sometimes resulting in artifacts. A fast computer though can do more than tv video's 60fps.

Originally posted by: xtknight
And the Samsung 2233rz is true 120 Hz. It is mostly to reduce perceived response time. But the "fake 120 Hz" methods blank the screen and simply double the frames.

What do you mean by the samsung 2233rz's true 120 Hz?
Are there any 24" LCDs that are true 120 Hz?

 

[Teej]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Yes, it's going to be oversaturated because most of those match sRGB (including HDTV), not even 100% NTSC. I am not sure what wide gamut TVs do, really, but bottom line is that the picture isn't going to be accurate!

Wide gamut doesn't really make movies or TV uncomfortable to watch.

Just to clarify, it won't be uncomfortable to watch, but it will be oversaturated?

TV on a wide gamut LCD doesn't look bad, and most people probably even prefer it that way. It's just not going to be accurate, that's all.

Since I like accurate picture, I'm thinking I might be better off with something that can do sRGB. I really dislike that vibrant store setting look and oversaturated colours. I've read that some screens can do sRGB emulation. Is there anything under $800 or so that'll do that? Does the 24" HP IPS screen everyone talks about do that?

Thanks again

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Kaido
Hey xtknight - dual 25" NEC's or dual 24" Dell SIP's for photo/color/layout work?

Hey well it depends on your budget.

Two 26" NECs are $2400, two Dell 24"s are maybe $1200. I would try the two Dells if I were you, along with a colorimeter. They are a better value. Neither of these panels has an A-TW polarizer.

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: Cheex
Given the differences between the Gateway 24" FHD2400 and the new FHD2401...

Would you say that @ $190 (@ the time of this post) .... the FHD2401 is a good purchase??
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824113019

BTW: I'm currently using a 19" widescreen Hanns-G monitor @ 1440x900.

Does it suck that bad that everyone ignored my question? Geez

I also wanted to know if the 2401 uses the same panel as the 2400? I kinda doubt it though seeing a few of the differences lie with the panel...such as contrast ratio and response time.

I've also read that the backlight bleed on the 2401 is far less than that of the 2400. What were the values for input lag and such for the 2400 and what can I expect from my in transit 2401??

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Originally posted by: xtknight

Originally posted by: ChorniyVolk
Hey, I need a new monitor for a new build. I read most of the OP but my lack of knowledge makes some of it confusing, and it seems impossible for me to choose a monitor.

Basically, I need something that is 24" or more, preferably 16:10 at 1920x1200+.

My budget is between $300-$500, I really don't want to spend $500 but as I don't know anything and want quality, not to mention that I'm okay with spending a few hundred (don't buy anything else), I figure I shouldn't set too low a target for money. Plus, it's staying with me for longer than most PC parts eh? I guess if it costs more than $500, let me know, but only if it's really worth the price and not some enthusiast sort of pick.

As far as what I'm using it for, basically general stuff. I'll be gaming on it, and watching plenty of movies/shows, apart from that it's really just basic stuff like web browsing, some photoshop work (not professional at all, just casual stuff), you know, average. I'd like some alternative input options so that I could, say, hook up a 360, wii, or ps2/ps3 to the monitor without any problems, you know, so it's not just a badass monitor but a great TV as well.

OK, I'm thinking HP LP2475w or Dell U2410, then...

I'm pretty sure I've only ever used TN panels, so I suppose getting a decent one would fit my needs very well and I'll be happy with it, but knowing that there's a better option like an IPS, and thinking about what I'm missing out on, I don't think it's worth it to save a few hundred bucks. I may not be doing anything professional or truly need great quality/colors, but I'm the sort of person who notices the little details, especially when they're pointed out, and I think I could appreciate what an IPS could give me over a TN. Let me know your opinion on this, because as I don't know shit, I'd like a viewpoint of someone who does, especially someone who was in my shoes once (ie is it worth it, will I notice, etc).

So, with all that in mind, what are my options? And please, if the recommendation is expensive, tell me what I'm getting for the price, and if it's cheaper, tell me what I'm missing out on. Otherwise, I hope I'm not asking the wrong question in the wrong place, and let me know if I fucked up in any way.

Heheh...I love posts like this, because you admit what everyone else is afraid to admit, I guess.

I think that a 24" IPS would do you good, as in the HP LP2475w or Dell U2410. Maybe around $500 or $600 depending on the deal you get. There's nothing else that's under $500 that's as good, really. You are getting quite a bit more quality with IPS, the most of which includes better viewing angle. Of course, these new HP and Dell panels have even more to offer in the way of inputs and color gamut as well. I think they are worth it for anyone, not just enthusiasts.

So what real difference is there between them? The specs seem to be pretty much the same...

Is dealing with either Dell or HP hard? Are they even in terms of customer service, would you say?

Do any of the negative reviews for the monitors have much merit, like those complaining about the color on the HP one here: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...0-3884471-3648442.html or is it more user error than anything else?

And as far as price, I don't see one for the Dell right now, but I remember looking at that monitor and seeing it for under $500 on their site, not to mention that I've heard Dell has a bunch of coupons and deals that they do a lot.

Basically, what I'm saying is, why would I be inclined to get the HP when the Dell exists? I'm probably missing something.

Also, what about calibration? Are these sorts of monitors properly factory calibrated? If not, can I do it manually and get great results with just an hour or two of work, or will I need an expensive automatic calibrator?

and which part of my post did you love exactly? I'm confused as to which part most people are too afraid to admit, heh.

Thanks for the help, appreciate it a lot.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: ChorniyVolk
So what real difference is there between them? The specs seem to be pretty much the same...

The HP has had some issues with uniformity. Other than that they are pretty much the same deal. I'm not in a position where I can scrutinize both spec sheets ( I'm on a laptop in class now ) but you can check that out for specifics. I'm trying to get the U2410 up on the list. I've got the entry made I'm just deciding where to put it and getting it up there. Right near the LP2475w probably so just assume as such until I get it up.

Is dealing with either Dell or HP hard? Are they even in terms of customer service, would you say?

I haven't dealt with either personally. But ya probably about same in terms of CS, and besides, it depends on the reps you get and where you live.

Do any of the negative reviews for the monitors have much merit, like those complaining about the color on the HP one here: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc...0-3884471-3648442.html or is it more user error than anything else?

That's a valid issue with the HP and one reason I may recommend the Dell over the HP. To my knowledge the Dell has had no such issue. It uses a new panel rev that maybe fixed the problem.

And as far as price, I don't see one for the Dell right now, but I remember looking at that monitor and seeing it for under $500 on their site, not to mention that I've heard Dell has a bunch of coupons and deals that they do a lot.

Basically, what I'm saying is, why would I be inclined to get the HP when the Dell exists? I'm probably missing something.

Eh, I'd get the Dell if I were you too. Plus it has that cool 12-bit LUT and color processing stuff in it. The HP is just another LCD with slightly less merits, that's all.

Also, what about calibration? Are these sorts of monitors properly factory calibrated? If not, can I do it manually and get great results with just an hour or two of work, or will I need an expensive automatic calibrator?

Yes, the Dell is the first primarily-consumer monitor (that I know of) to come with a sheet describing how exactly it was factory calibrated. But for some reason I hear the default calibration still sucks. Get a colorimeter if you're doing color work. It's not critical but it will give you an edge.

and which part of my post did you love exactly? I'm confused as to which part most people are too afraid to admit, heh.

Thanks for the help, appreciate it a lot.

I just liked that you were honest and plus you were not strictly restricting your price range. In this market that's a good idea, and you did exactly what I would have done.

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: Cheex

Originally posted by: Cheex
Given the differences between the Gateway 24" FHD2400 and the new FHD2401...

Would you say that @ $190 (@ the time of this post) .... the FHD2401 is a good purchase??
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16824113019

BTW: I'm currently using a 19" widescreen Hanns-G monitor @ 1440x900.

Does it suck that bad that everyone ignored my question? Geez

I also wanted to know if the 2401 uses the same panel as the 2400? I kinda doubt it though seeing a few of the differences lie with the panel...such as contrast ratio and response time.

I've also read that the backlight bleed on the 2401 is far less than that of the 2400. What were the values for input lag and such for the 2400 and what can I expect from my in transit 2401??

Not really man... I guess I could post "I don't know".... (at least about the 2400 vs 2401)

Most people know my stance on TN panels though. I rarely think they are a good deal or good idea, unless you're *only* gaming.

 

[WowbaggerTIP]

Ok, I decided that I can't really afford a quality 24" monitor right now. So I'm looking at 22" models.
I'm planning to buy from Dell since I like their warranty and I at least get a 7% discount through my employer. I can't seem to find any coupons that work for monitors

So, between the Samsung 2233rz and the Dell UltraSharp 2209wa, which one is the better choice? They're priced at $299 and $289 respectively. They look pretty similar on the specs, but the Samsung is 120Hz? Will that make a visible difference in normal use or gaming?

 

[xtknight]

Originally posted by: WowbaggerTIP
Ok, I decided that I can't really afford a quality 24" monitor right now. So I'm looking at 22" models.
I'm planning to buy from Dell since I like their warranty and I at least get a 7% discount through my employer. I can't seem to find any coupons that work for monitors

So, between the Samsung 2233rz and the Dell UltraSharp 2209wa, which one is the better choice? They're priced at $299 and $289 respectively. They look pretty similar on the specs, but the Samsung is 120Hz? Will that make a visible difference in normal use or gaming?

For mostly gaming -- you will love the Samsung.
Otherwise, you will love the Dell due to its eIPS panel...

 

[Cheex]

Originally posted by: xtknight
Not really man... I guess I could post "I don't know".... (at least about the 2400 vs 2401)

Most people know my stance on TN panels though. I rarely think they are a good deal or good idea, unless you're *only* gaming.

Well....I mostly play games, write a few articles/reviews, watch the occassional movie ....but it really is mainly for gaming.

I'm all the way in Jamaica so, I just hope that I at least get a panel with no stuck and/or dead pixels.

Pardon my excitement but I just had to cash in on that deal and I'm eager for it to arrive. I've wanted 1920x1200 about 2 years now and I'm finally getting it.

 

[j0j081]

I posted this in the displays section of hard forum hoping for a good answer but nobody has really been able to give me one so far.

"I am desperately trying to pull the trigger on a new lcd. I don't have a lot lot of money so I'll probably be getting one of the inexpensive Asus screens as this will primarily be used for gaming. One thing that is making my decision more difficult is there are 3 sizes 23, 23.6, and 24 that all run at 1920 x 1080. I feel a 23 inch would probably be plenty large enough for me as I'm using an old Samsung crt at the moment but which of the 3 will actually have the best picture quality? Instinct tells me the 23 inch because the pixels will be the smallest. Are the other two just wider for the most part or do they add height? Thanks."

I don't get why there are 3 different sizes for that res especially the 23.6.

 

[Cheex]

Can you provide some links to these displays please?
We'd be better able to help.

 

[j0j081]

Originally posted by: Cheex
Can you provide some links to these displays please?
We'd be better able to help.

if this link works it will show the 3 different sizes.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/...6048%2CN82E16824236052

 

[Luddite]

Here is the TFT Central Review for the Dell U2410

http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u2410.htm

Highlights:

- Excellent colour once calibrated
- Factory calibration poor
- Black levels are good though not as good as the HP LP2475W
- Input lag very good and improved over Dell 2408WFP

 

[MorUmbar]

I'm looking for some info on the input lag of VK266H/VW226H. I've been searching through forums for a few hours now and cant find anything except one guy saying "as far as I can tell there isn't any." Which doesn't really give me any solid numbers to compare with other panels. I want to have a panel ordered in the next two weeks and would appreciate some numbers or a link for a good thorough review.

 

[mlah384]

For graphic design, web design, 3D, etc... How come the Apple 30" isn't listed? How does it compare to the NEC's? The NEC LCD2490WUXi was listed as best for web design, but why are there no displays larger than 24" listed in that section?

Thanks

 

[Xponential]

Finally pulled the trigger on a Dell 3007WFP-HC after I saw the 15% off through Bing cashback. This thing is nice and biiiig. Even going from a 24" to this still feels huge.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

So last time they got the U2410 down to $480, you figure they'll do it again? Right now it's at $550, which is nice, but I was hoping it'd be a bit less. I know they also have a 10% off coupon for monitors, which expires soon, how often do they add new coupon codes, anyone know?

 

[imported_Lothar]

Originally posted by: xtknight
It's not that bad, but there are better choices like the Acer G24 (1920x1200), ASUS VK246h, and BenQ E2400HD, all of which may be well worth the extra cash.

The ASUS is nearly the same price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/...6048&Tpk=ASUS%20VK246h

The E2400HD is probably better than any of these but I can't find it in stock. The G24 is also very good, but personally I don't like its design. I rate on image quality.

http://www.benq.us/products/LCD/?product=785
$299 with free shipping.
A search for shopping on google shows other places selling it for $350+ with shipping which isn't worth it for TN panel.

 

[Winterpool]

It appears the 10 per cent code 'D8JCZ8T7RL5NF4' currently works on the Dell U2410, bringing its pre-tax price to $494.10. This isn't quite as good as last month's coupon, but it does take it below $500.

I'm going to continue waiting till the holidays myself, mainly to see if there's anything that can be done about the dark-grey dithering issue, possibly in later firmware (though I'm somewhat sceptical of this happening).

Edit: this appears to be a 10 per cent code that stacks with the current U2410 discount, yielding about 17 per cent total ($105).

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Originally posted by: Winterpool
It appears the 20 per cent code 'D8JCZ8T7RL5NF4' currently works on the Dell U2410, bringing its pre-tax price to $494.10. This isn't quite as good as last month's coupon, but it does take it below $500.

I'm going to continue waiting till the holidays myself, mainly to see if there's anything that can be done about the dark-grey dithering issue, possibly in later firmware (though I'm somewhat sceptical of this happening).

Woah woah, what issue?

 

[Winterpool]

If you read over U2410 user observations (eg the extensive Hard|Forum thread), many of them are reporting dithering in sRGB and, I believe, Adobe RGB modes, particularly evident in dark areas.

XTKnight discussed the 8 to 12 to 10-bit conversions that may be taking place on the Dell U2410 and how dithering might be caused by the sRGB gamut transformation. You can find his post on the previous page (27 Sep). Theoretically, I suppose an improvement in the sRGB conversion might improve the dithering. Not sure how much we should expect, since Dell's sRGB mode is already a marked improvement over the HP LP2475w.